Meant to be Seen

Just a note to say that we will start our Kickstarter at 12 noon GMT on Tuesday 18 June.
This is the culmination of work that goes back to 2001 and the realisation that the best way to navigate games and virtual worlds is to simulate actually walking through them.
We still believe this to be a critical element of VR and that VR itself could provide the motivation to take regular exercise. Because of this we have taken the time to iterate the design based upon user feedback and waited until we can deliver the best possible product.
We’ve been able to demonstrate it with the help of a Kinect and the Oculus Rift and while the feedback from this has been excellent the WizDish will benefit enormously from imminent improvements in both devices. It’s great fun to use the WizDish even without VR (e.g. with an iPod) and it’s deceptively easy and stable to use. With good HMD positional tracking and accurate foot movement detection it provides incredible VR experiences.
Something we noticed during recent public trials was that women were as enthusiastic about it as men and invariably came off the demo beaming. There was a definite “finally there’s something for us too” about their reactions. We want to embrace casual and mobile gaming users so this was very encouraging.
Following successful demos and meetings with physiologists and academics we plan further detailed tests and analysis of muscle usage.

Great news and about time! Good luck with the KS!

Good Luck!

I think there is great potential in the market for your product.

Awesome news! I will back this project for sure.

I am looking forward to it too.

Thanks guys! You never know, if a series of successful Kickstarters come out of one forum a lot of people could start to take notice of VR

Thanks Flassan, I have my alarm set. After being priced out of the Omni because of international shipping I hope the Wizdish is going to be the one for me! Good luck and see you on KS!

Excellent news, I'll be chipping in. I'm hoping you get a strong result from the KS, the more VR input options we have the better.

I'm very excited for the wizdish, going to back it day one. However I'm also worried how safe it is. My friends and family already struggle standing with the rift on, myself included. How is it going to be on an extremely slippery surface with no supports? Very excited and equally worried!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFkyV7d5t8o (good bit is at 75s)

Yes, I'm hoping the Kickstarter promotes safety with the product. I think more VR options are definitely needed (especially at different price points) but I'm concerned about how we convey the importance of safety to naive consumers.

Anyways, good luck Flassan. Great to see all the energy in this market.

Good point about safety and it's great to see you guys have the courage to see through that.
Whenever you have something completely new there are the perceived issues and the real issues. I remember as recently as 10 years ago having to convince users that touchscreens wouldn't cause RSI (if you haven't used something before it can be impossible to know). I think any safety issues with the WizDish are obvious and easily mitigated. We've given a great deal of thought to the less obvious ones and have sought expert advice on them. For instance you have to be very careful when you modify the way you normally use muscles. The WizDish motion is a zero impact combination of walking and skating, which are both proven. We particularly wanted to ensure there is no damage or strain to your Achilles tendons. Recovering from such an injury would be difficult because you use them constantly and they bear your entire weight, especially if both are affected. Another factor is avoiding back injury when moving it.
We anticipate that the WizDish experience will get better and better as other technologies improve. Good positional tracking will help enormously with the balance issues you mention and after the first time you walk up virtual stairs your brain will know what to expect.
The WizDish is also kinda counter-intuitive because it's an exercise device that's designed to require the minimum effort. Exercise equipment does no good unless it gets used and you're very likely to want to play a game for a couple of hours.

Will the WizDish come with its own tracking solution, or is it designed to be used in conjunction with a Kinect? Could you provide more details about how the WizDish will interact with games?

Thanks

Hi Zoide
By itself the WizDish provides a perfect line of sight to a Kinect so we've concentrated on that. If you've seen this video you might agree that's a wise move:
http://gizmodo.com/kinect-2-full-video- ... -509155673
Microsoft employ almost 1000 PhDs amongst their R&D staff and given the importance of Kinect it wouldn't surprise me if they'd spent a billion developing it.
As there are also several other motion detection solutions becoming available we've decided to concentrate on our unique patented tool. After all, we've made the passive omni-directional treadmill a reality so no one knows that tech better than we do. Due to our industrial experience we're also not fond of excessive wires, terminals or too many fiddly bits that need to be synced because they all contribute to unreliability. Therefore we always try to find maintenance free solutions.

OK, thanks for the info Flassan! I'm looking forward to seeing your Kickstarter

Flassan wrote: After all, we've made the passive omni-directional treadmill a reality so no one knows that tech better than we do.

Just curious, is this really good PR speak? Man if it is, I'd suck at it...

is there a harness yet? Because i drink a lot and need a harness

Flassan wrote:Hi Zoide
By itself the WizDish provides a perfect line of sight to a Kinect so we've concentrated on that. If you've seen this video you might agree that's a wise move:
http://gizmodo.com/kinect-2-full-video- ... -509155673
Microsoft employ almost 1000 PhDs amongst their R&D staff and given the importance of Kinect it wouldn't surprise me if they'd spent a billion developing it.
As there are also several other motion detection solutions becoming available we've decided to concentrate on our unique patented tool. After all, we've made the passive omni-directional treadmill a reality so no one knows that tech better than we do. Due to our industrial experience we're also not fond of excessive wires, terminals or too many fiddly bits that need to be synced because they all contribute to unreliability. Therefore we always try to find maintenance free solutions.

Oops. Check that Kinect 2 video at 6 minutes. He turns around and the figure doesnt follow. Dissapoint.

Okta wrote:Oops. Check that Kinect 2 video at 6 minutes. He turns around and the figure doesnt follow. Dissapoint.

Hmm... but:

1) The Microsoft demo is likely to be running on pre-release hardware/software
2) I suppose the WizDish will use custom software for the Kinect recognition and subsequent translation into game input?

Vamplifire wrote:is there a harness yet? Because i drink a lot and need a harness

Hi Vamplifire. Something like a Bariatric harness might be the best option. I would avoid climbing harnesses unless they support you comfortably from the shoulders. Climbers will tell you that their harnesses aren't for walking in - they are to catch you if you fall. They normally loosen or remove them when walking to a climb to avoid friction burns and pressure sores in places you really don't want them! More so if they're supporting your weight.

Hi Okta. If you mean when he turns 360 and his head doesn't fully rotate I saw that too. It may well be that your HMD provides the best head-tracking. From what I could tell the rest of the tracking will be more than adequate for excellent VR experiences.

Thanks for the questions guys!

Refreshing as we speak - nothing there yet....

Update: Still nothing 13 minutes after noon.

Hi baggyg
It's 12 noon GMT - also called (UTC) Coordinated Universal Time
So not long now!
Cheers
Julian

Flassan wrote:Hi baggyg
It's 12 noon GMT - also called (UTC) Coordinated Universal Time
So not long now!
Cheers
Julian

Is it not 12 noon in the UK at the moment?

Ahh got it - UK is GMT + 1 at the moment because of daylight savings. See you in 45 mins

You're a mate
Cheers!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/654 ... l?ref=live

I've read the whole thing and I still don't see what this does. Without Kinect it's nothing. Extremely expensive nothing.

Its about the same price as the early backer omni base without waist structure. I was hoping it would be about half that price so i'll wait for now. Good luck, im sure it will make it.

Backed:omni postage costs are the same as the full price of this.

Thanks Lurch666!
Otka, I understand your point but certain aspect like the WizShoes use high tech materials and we want to make absolutely sure that if we get funding there is 100% chance we can deliver. I think we get used to ultra high volume production from China lowering prices. At the small volumes Kickstarters are concerned with and the cutting-edge nature of what we're trying to achieve that's hard to match. If we wait for things to be in Wallmart we miss out on all the pioneering fun

Parallaxis wrote:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/654 ... l?ref=live

I've read the whole thing and I still don't see what this does. Without Kinect it's nothing. Extremely expensive nothing.

This seems like a bit of a bizarre comment to me. Applied to the Rift, for example:
"I've read all about the Oculus Rift, and I still don't really get it. Without a computer it's nothing. Extremely expensive nothing. You wouldn't be able to see a thing!".

The WizDish's tracking is done using the Kinect, so if you want to use the tracking software that comes with the WizDish you'll need the appropriate hardware. This is a concept we should all be familiar and comfortable with.

Interesting. Similarly to the virtuix omni, I'd want to try this out before buying. The virtuix omni especially doesn't seem like the most natural stride. I could see this working better. Good luck!

radiant wrote:Interesting. Similarly to the virtuix omni, I'd want to try this out before buying. The virtuix omni especially doesn't seem like the most natural stride. I could see this working better. Good luck!

What? Omni hasn't a natural stride..... You can even run naturally on it. Show me a device that can
support this.

Although I am hesitant to post my true impressions this early (before my morning coffee, when I am more grumpy than later in the day), I feel a need to be honest here. Perhaps the kickstarter campaign can be altered to draw more positive attention.

Only four backers? A lack of popularity is an immediate "first impression" that is not a good thing (like an empty parking lot at a restaurant, during prime dinner hours). Also, when cybereality posted that he would get one if the price was below $200, somehow that stuck in my mind. I do not know why, but for some reason I was expecting a price more like $179, which would have HUGE mass market appeal. And showing that "crash mat" for public use immediately puts a picture in my head of falling and banging my head on the corner of a coffee table. Showing a safety device that is not included is a bit disconcerting to me (and probably others). Prices not shown in US dollars will make it look "foreign" to potential American customers. No special limited "door buster" tiers for early backers to excite a "feeding frenzy" and draw media attention misses the point of getting significant initial momentum. This may be a great device, but the kickstarter left me feeling more than a little disappointed, considering that I am not even sure it will work for my knees (but I would *love* to try it). With international shipping to the USA (where half its potential audience lives) and a higher than expected cost (after reading the cybereality post I mentioned), I was left more than a little "underwhelmed". This seems to have a lot less "pizzazz" than the kickstarter campaign for the Virtuix Omni, which unexpectedly cost LESS than was originally expected (just like the Oculus Rift). I really want to try a WizDish to see if it would work for me, but with the concerns mentioned above it has less appeal just to buy one that might not even work for me. It did not hit a price-point that would make me buy one just to add to my collection because it was "too good a deal to pass up" (whereas the Omni had early discounts to provide an essential "Black Friday" buying frenzy that is missing here). It missed the mark established by the Rift and Omni kickstarter. And if the Omni fails to work for me, I can easily resell it (perhaps even at a ridiculous eBay price like the early eBay Rifts), and I can keep the autographed Ready Player One book too.

Just being honest, and "keeping it real" here. No intention to offend, but rather to HELP, if the kickstarter can be adjusted to draw a crowd of early backers at this point. Hopefully, this will have a larger appeal to the European Rifters who can get domestic shipping...

But then again, I have not had my morning coffee yet, so my opinion may change later...

cybereality wrote:Well its not perfect, but it seems like a practical solution given certain constraints (size, price, etc.). If it were relatively cheap (read: under $200) then I would certainly get one just to experiment. Seems an improvement over walking in place, even if its not as great as a real setup (like the BF3 simulator). But if it were between using this device or just standing still with a controller, I think I'd take this contraption.

PalmerTech wrote:I talked with the inventor of the WizDish on the phone yesterday, he allayed a lot of these concerns. Going to try and get my work to buy one, and if not, I will be buying one of his prototypes myself.

PalmerTech wrote:I am going to have to try it before writing it off. It won an award at the IEEE VR conference, something that a total POS would not manage.

EDIT: I see that there are two more backers now (six total). There were still only four after I finished this post. Nice to see it growing. Perhaps it will gain momentum as it gets more attention from a European audience (domestic shipping). It would be great to have multiple viable ODT options to choose from, and I would love to try a WizDish myself. It might work for me much better than an Omni (which I also have not tested).

EDIT2: Now up to eight backers. Slow start, but plenty of time left to succeed.

The reward tiers don't seem like they were thought out completely. No one is going to choose just the shoes so that should have been added in each tier's description rather than its own tier.

A £150 difference (£200 vs £350) for 1 less pair of shoes and a signed shirt.
It'd be £5 cheaper to add a £45 pair of shoes onto the £150 tier than pledge the £200 tier.
I was also a little surprised in not seeing any early bird tiers.

As for the device itself, this is a decent price difference compared to the Omni (almost half) but still not sold on how safe it is. It's stated you can crouch, but even in the video on Kickstarter, there was still wobbling seen just 'walking', so I'm not sure how easily crouching is done on the Wizdish. I haven't seen any videos showing standing to crouching and vice versa. I think the Kickstarter video should have shown more footage of someone completely comfortable with the Wizdish to sell how stable it is to use and doing all of the things you're selling it can do. I know there is a learning curve, but showing someone brand new to the product isn't something I would think you'd want to show trying to sell your product. This is just a difference of opinion, though, as I know you're trying to sell how easy it is to step on and start.

Another big difference for me for this vs Omni is Omni will have built in tracking where this relies on the Kinect. The tracking and the added safety built in (I'm not handy so I can't rely on myself to build supports or attach harnesses to ceilings and such, haha) makes the Omni worth the extra money to me.

Sorry for being critical, but just wanted to share my opinion. I do wish you the best of luck on your Kickstarter and your product, Flassan.

Hi geekmaster
No offence taken at all. We appreciate you trying to help. The WizDish was created as a serious tool and a lot of physics went into developing it.
I'm probably wrong to think this but I'm not keen on a lot of marketing techniques, especially here in a field populated by professionals and enthusiasts. We would much rather people are delighted when they've owned one long enough to fully appreciate it than that they feel underwhelmed at that stage. VR has been plagued all along by snake-oil salesmen in the past with "buy now or miss out" offers. We are not like that. We are determined to deliver something that people will love to own and get a huge amount of use from. We are not looking to make any profit on this but would ask everyone to understand if it costs a little more than expected. If we do better than expected we can always trim the shipping costs but under no circumstances would we not fully deliver what we have promised.

Thank you NightHawk, those are some very good points.
The Kickstarter rules for rewards have become quite complicated as they've tried to stop it being used to just sell product. This may account for apparent anomalies. I prefer not to comment on other devices but I think we may not really know until next year after they've been delivered. Only engineering stress tests can check if a structure is safe and physiological analysis of muscle usage is needed to see if a motion really is natural walking. We tried to explain exactly what our motion is so everyone can decide for themselves if repetition might result in muscle strain. We tend to show videos of particularly challenging situations to allow people to assess them for themselves. We're a bit suspicious of picture-in-picture modes where the real points of interest are hidden from view. Equally over-use of other companies brands and IPR. We are aiming this at an intelligent Kickstarter audience for whom we hope honesty is the best form of marketing.

Flassan wrote:Thank you NightHawk, those are some very good points.
The Kickstarter rules for rewards have become quite complicated as they've tried to stop it being used to just sell product. This may account for apparent anomalies. I prefer not to comment on other devices but I think we may not really know until next year after they've been delivered. Only engineering stress tests can check if a structure is safe and physiological analysis of muscle usage is needed to see if a motion really is natural walking. We tried to explain exactly what our motion is so everyone can decide for themselves if repetition might result in muscle strain. We tend to show videos of particularly challenging situations to allow people to assess them for themselves. We're a bit suspicious of picture-in-picture modes where the real points of interest are hidden from view. Equally over-use of other companies brands and IPR. We are aiming this at an intelligent Kickstarter audience for whom we hope honesty is the best form of marketing.

Yeah, we won't know exactly how the products will work for us until we try it. I can appreciate honesty in marketing, but for a product that can be potentially dangerous in terms of disorientation and balance (especially with goggles strapped to our faces), using the product comfortably and safely is pretty key. I am skeptical on some parts of the Omni, but the way it was marketed for what looks like natural walking and safety (with the support/belt) sold it for me. Most of their Kickstarter video showed someone who was sure-footed and had used the product long enough to be completely comfortable in it which seemed more natural. Assuming people will be using these products for hundreds of hours, we know people will get to a point where they're comfortable on each device so showing someone who is comfortable and confident in their movements I think sells better.

Your product sells the ability to actually crouch (a sort of jab at Omni from my point of view), but I haven't seen any videos showing standing to crouching and back and forth. Have I missed this somewhere?

I'll pass. The reasons:

- Walking looks silly and unnatural.
- No waist support.
- Kinect.

Competition is good though. Good luck!

NightlHlawk wrote:I think the Kickstarter video should have shown more footage of someone completely comfortable with the Wizdish to sell how stable it is to use and doing all of the things you're selling it can do. I know there is a learning curve, but showing someone brand new to the product isn't something I would think you'd want to show trying to sell your product.

I completely agree with this. The WizDish video shows a first-time user wobbling around awkardly, which doesn't do the product any favors. Instead, the Omni videos show Jan (the product's creator, who has probably used it for tens or hundreds of hours) walking and running confidently with very natural movements.

I've seen videos of Julian and his son using the WizDish, and they make it look great. I recommend editing the Kickstarter video to show full-body shots of them using the device.

Flassan wrote:Thank you NightHawk, those are some very good points.
The Kickstarter rules for rewards have become quite complicated as they've tried to stop it being used to just sell product. This may account for apparent anomalies. I prefer not to comment on other devices but I think we may not really know until next year after they've been delivered. Only engineering stress tests can check if a structure is safe and physiological analysis of muscle usage is needed to see if a motion really is natural walking. We tried to explain exactly what our motion is so everyone can decide for themselves if repetition might result in muscle strain. We tend to show videos of particularly challenging situations to allow people to assess them for themselves. We're a bit suspicious of picture-in-picture modes where the real points of interest are hidden from view. Equally over-use of other companies brands and IPR. We are aiming this at an intelligent Kickstarter audience for whom we hope honesty is the best form of marketing.

Flassan, you make a really good point about muscle usage.

I'd like to hear how safe the Omni is for using in that way, especially when it comes to achilles tendon injuries. I'm also interested in how the harness they have is going to rub against you while you jog over a long period of time.

The problem with these immersive games being so fun to exercise with is ... well, they're so immersive and fun to exercise with you sometimes forget to listen to your body and might easily cause a repetitive stress injury.

MrGreen wrote:I'll pass. The reasons:

- Walking looks silly and unnatural.
- No waist support.
- Kinect.

Competition is good though. Good luck!

+1

Congratulations Flassan for getting this all put together!

I think it is unfair at this point to make assumptions about included tracking solutions. The Omni states that they have a goal to create an integrated tracking solution, but the details are very minimal at this point. At face value - right now both systems rely on Kinect so they are essentially equivalent. The Omni takes a slightly different approach to provide a closer approximation of the walking mechanic but does so at the expense of flexibility of motion. The Wizdish takes a "simpler-is-better" approach and by eschewing the harnessing - clearly allows the user wider freedom of motion (the ability to crouch seems pretty self-evident to me even without a video demonstration). Both systems have strengths and weaknesses and I think there is a place for both solutions in the market. I can envision Wizdish having a large uptake in Europe where living space is smaller and shipping costs are a big factor.

Full disclosure: I am friends and collaborators with both Flassan and Jan. I have tried both systems and am essentially neutral on my preference.