Viiwok - Virtual treadmill & reality simulator.

Post by **Attreyu** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:26 pm

Hi all, I'm a young systems engineer from Spain with a passion for architecture, topography, surveilling, photogrammetry and gaming.

In about 2 weeks I'll be launching an IndieGogo campaign (I'm european so I can't submit projects for KickStarter) for a similar product, a treadmill simulator that would have the added advantage that all the sensors would be built in (walking, turning, jumping, crouching) at 120 Hz response frequency (basically zero latency/lag, the same you have from using a keyboard/mouse combo).

You wouldn't need a Kinect or a Hydra at an added cost and you wouldn't need to wear those Virtuix special shoes to be able to slide, like in the Virtuix or the cvasi-walk like with the WizDish. You'd be able to crouch properly, instead of bending. You'd be able to sit down when you get tired after all that moving around.

The system is natively compatible with any platform - Windows, Mac OSX and Linux are supported out of the box, no special drivers needed, you plug it in and it's set to go. And most of all, the price would be around 250€.

The concept is orientated towards virtual exploration and tourism (real monuments, historic sites and other places of interest modeled and rendered using powerful gaming engines like the CryEngine) but FPS gamers would find it quite tight in addition to the Oculus, whenever the latter will be launched. Until then, players would be able to shoot ahead without an Oculus, using a normal monitor screen or a HDTV, since everything would be motion ready and fitted with all the necesary sensors.

Stay tuned for more details.

Youtube demos to follow and other details on http://www.viiwok.com during the next few weeks.

Other details and questions about the product have been answered on the Oculus Developer Forums :

https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/v ... =25&t=1223

Post by **yautjacetanu** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:06 pm

I'm guessing you know this but the website you linked to just has dummy content on it and "hello world". Personally I recommend getting the site sorted before you give out the URL

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:40 pm

Seems the site is down. I am interested how this works.

Post by **Leahy** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:19 pm

No site or video yet however after reading his comments on the oculus forum it actually sounds rather promising. I've been waiting for a pair of usb ball bearing shoes to hit the market since I just don't have the gumption to do it all myself. I am impatiently awaiting more info before I attempt the severe negotiations with the missus to arrange a spot for such a device in our house, the price being only a secondary argument

Post by **mattyeatsmatts** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:22 pm

Does this thing run on Mana/magic?

Post by **realyst2k** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:00 pm

So it sounds like an Omni though using ball bearings instead. Sort of curious how it gets around the common challenges(noise, wear and tear of metal on metal or even metal on coating...metal can be a pain).

Elastically suspended support belt is a good idea, though again, could be tricky to do while still providing some level of support(flexes too much would still allow you to fall back first into a support rod)

Lot of promises here. If it meets most of them, it's a damn compelling product. I suppose we shall see

Post by **blindboxes** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:47 pm

He seems to know what he talks about, if you look at the oculusvr thread. Now I'm torn between waiting for this or get the early bird omni reward.

Post by **Bleppe** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:12 pm

This made me curious.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the youtube demos.
A couple of things that have made me hesistant towards the omni are the shoes and the fact that you're not able to crouch down.
Crouching is something you'd wanna do while playing an fps, like Battlefield etc.

Post by **Attreyu** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:51 am

I posted the site just for the heads-up. It will be updated with info and youtube demos this week.

Post by **Paladia** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:21 am

It sounds promising, and he says he is ready to start shipping right now as he has worked on the project for a year.

The Oculus thread has some valuable insight:

My project is not competing with the Virtuix Omni, it's just a better alternative. I will launch on IndieGoGo maybe around the date of 10th. I will be able to take orders almost instantly, instead of waiting 'till Christmas or God knows when. You won't need a Hydra. In fact you won't need an Oculus either. You can crouch instead of bending and you can sit down. And it will be half the price.

Also

Stability and crouching: The user's standing stability comes from the carbon fiber encirclement around the user. It's a 36" circular bar. The user stands inside it and radial connections similar to a harness, made of rubber connect the user to the bar. The rubber rays connect by clipping to the user wearing a simple belt. So you can use any of your belts from your pants and adjust it in such way you will feel confortable and tight. Being of rubber, it permits you jumping and crouching (not full crouching, but a semi standing pose so you are able to walk while crouched). The sensors detect acceleration on Z axis (vertically) so jumping and crouching are detected and assigned to any key/mouse combo you like.

Jumping: the bearing wheels sustain a 20kg each, trey are specifically designed for me by Omnitrack. You have 8 on each foot so unless you are over 320 kilograms, you should be fine. I foresaw the momentary load spike when you jump, it's about 50% at the second you touch the ground from jumping but the wheels can take it. Also, the shoe's soles are made from rubber so they can neutralise the shock. They're extremely confortable. More, I will offer the choice of buying the shoes or using a custom skate-sole already mounted with the wheels that you can attach to your preffered shoes and detach later.

Diameter: the base is about 130-140 cm and it's circular. The belt support is 36" - about 100 cm (1 meter). Sorry for not converting exactly from metric to imperial. I'll revise the specs a bit more precise towards the launch.

Sensors: All wireless (wifi connection). Battery powered - should last you a few days each and are easily replaceable, in about one minute. Those are the arduinos. There will be a couple of more already mounted on the system. Those are connected to a wireless USB hub that sends the signal to the computer wirelessly. Basically you'll have no cables running around that could get in your way.

Competitivity: It has no lag to speak of. You don't need a Kinect. You can crouch. You can straffe. Almost silent (the base is covered with silicon/rubber based dye that anulates almost any noise the wheels produce, besides production a certain amount of friction that provides stability). You can sit down on a small chair attached to the mechanism. I will offer Hydra like positioning that permits grabbing any gun toy you have and transform it into a 6DOF controller, using a velcro strap and your own smartphone (free app for iPhone/Android to be ready at the launch).

And not to mention.

In fact, I'm already working on a motion detecting system that would be half the price of a Kinect and do what a Kinect, Hydra AND Oculus do for about 200€ - 400€ for the whole package including the Viiwok - which would essentialy be a complete VR system. This summer will be full of nice surprises for you guys if I'll be successful with this campaign.

That sounds almost too good to be true but we'll see. If it he is telling the truth, it's extremely promising.

Post by **remosito** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:41 am

Living in europe, shipping costs might be much cheaper as well compared to the virtuix!

Really glad both will run simultaneously. Will allow for comparing!

Post by **Attreyu** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:05 am

It will be a KickStarter, probably launched next Monday, on the 10th, depending on how much time do they need to approve the submitted project.

Post by **Randomoneh** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:06 am

No photos? Videos? Nothing?

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:13 am

Agreed .. pics or didn't happen!

Post by **FR3D** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:34 am

I will build a virtual treadmill also.
You can fly, swim, croutch, jump, drive etc...

i need 15000000$ @ kickstarter - no pics ... first you have to back it...

best regards FR3D

Post by **JanVR** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:38 am

Attreyu, in case this is helpful: it took us 10 days to get approved by Kickstarter, since hardware projects are extremely scrutinized. You need working prototypes, pics, designs, a solid manufacturing plan, etc. Good luck! I will be following your progress with much interest and excitement.

Don't miss out on our early bird specials tomorrow - launch at 7am ET!

Post by **FR3D** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:46 am

JanVR wrote:Attreyu, in case this is helpful: it took us 10 days to get approved by Kickstarter, since hardware projects are extremely scrutinized. You need working prototypes, pics, designs, a solid manufacturing plan, etc. Good luck! I will be following your progress with much interest and excitement.

Don't miss out on our early bird specials tomorrow - launch at 7am ET!

7am ... whats the time in middle europe ? 1 pm ?

i will be there and back the virtuix ...

best regards FR3D

Post by **Paladia** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:56 am

FR3D wrote:I will build a virtual treadmill also.
You can fly, swim, croutch, jump, drive etc...

i need 15000000$ @ kickstarter - no pics ... first you have to back it...

best regards FR3D

Not sure why you are trying to make fun of him. He has just announced his project and hasn't asked for any money or backing before he has shown what he is doing.

Personally, I think this late announcement approach is preferable to those that announce a project years before they are able to complete it.

Post by **Attreyu** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:24 am

JanVR wrote:Attreyu, in case this is helpful: it took us 10 days to get approved by Kickstarter, since hardware projects are extremely scrutinized. You need working prototypes, pics, designs, a solid manufacturing plan, etc. Good luck! I will be following your progress with much interest and excitement.

Don't miss out on our early bird specials tomorrow - launch at 7am ET!

Thanks Jan ! You too bro ! I sincerely hope you'll hit the jackpot and get to bring your product to the end-users. Whatever colab or info sharing you can think of, you can count on me. Also, if you think you need a specific number of time free of any competition perceived by the public, before I'll present Viiwok, hit me up with a PM. I don't want to damage your campaign in any way. Kickstarter will still be there one month from now.

Post by **ThomasH** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:19 pm

Competition is a good thing. However. If two products differ by half the price to the other, it isnt competition. It is differnt markets. Good luck both. I will go for the comsumer freindly version anyhow.

Post by **Paladia** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:26 pm

Attreyu wrote:I don't want to damage your campaign in any way. Kickstarter will still be there one month from now.

I also think it would be wise of you to put more effort into the PR and hype. And also get a Kickstarter presentation video that is at least on par with what Jan has.

You may have a superior product but that matters little unless you market it and people know about it.

Post by **Leahy** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:07 am

I wouldn't consider this to be in competition with the Omni even if it were more alike, considering the size and weight of the omni (and the Viiwok too probably) shipping overseas is a deal-breaker for most of us. Different markets indeed.

Post by **Okta** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:57 am

OK, now ive missed the Omni, how about some details/pics? If its as far along as you have said no one will be able to steal your ideas before you go to market.

Post by **Attreyu** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:26 pm

Starting with this short clip, I'll begin to gradually post and ilustrate what you will be able to do with the Viiwok.

Using wireless sensors attached to a simple toy gun reproduces Hydra like functionality. Attaching them to your chest or even on a cap on your head replaces the sensoring part of the Rift (remember the project unifying viiwok-hydra-rift). This is still alpha. Latency is close to zero (I was using wireless instead of bluetooth). Excuse my wife, she's not a pro and I was in a hurry

. The game is Rage by id Software but it works out of the box with anything that uses a mouse/keyboard.

This type of sensoring ilustrated in the video will be included in the first generation Viiwok, readily to be shipped by September. For movement of the virtual avatar (the classic WASD combo) the Viiwok's sensors are used. Will show their functionality during the next days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUdY5LNQN3k

Post by **mattyeatsmatts** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:57 pm

how many sensors doest it track? is it one on each hand, each foot and one on the head for positional tracking?

Post by **Zoide** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:06 pm

Cool!

Attreyu: Have you thought of making VR gloves? That would be awesome!!

Post by **Popopinsel** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:19 am

Nice, but latency doesn't seem to be "close to zero"...

Post by **Attreyu** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:33 am

Popopinsel wrote:Nice, but latency doesn't seem to be "close to zero"...

It actually is if you look closely. I will post more videos until the launch date that will hopefully convince you

Post by **shent1080** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:01 am

Attreyu wrote:
Popopinsel wrote:Nice, but latency doesn't seem to be "close to zero"...
It actually is if you look closely. I will post more videos until the launch date that will hopefully convince you

I have to agree,the tracking does look like it has a small amount of lag, what i actually wanted to post though was, Well done Attreyu for getting the project off the ground, a lot of people outside of the US will be looking to this for obvious reasons,. Good luck.

Post by **Okta** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:10 am

Another gun sensor? I thought this was a locomotion system?

Post by **Attreyu** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:13 am

shent1080 wrote:
Attreyu wrote:
Popopinsel wrote:Nice, but latency doesn't seem to be "close to zero"...
It actually is if you look closely. I will post more videos until the launch date that will hopefully convince you
I have to agree,the tracking does look like it has a small amount of lag, what i actually wanted to post though was, Well done Attreyu for getting the project off the ground, a lot of people outside of the US will be looking to this for obvious reasons,. Good luck.

Let's meet in the middle and I'll accept that there is a slight lag, but it's due to the wifi instead of bluetooth

Anyway it's better than Kinect with its 1 second lag. Thanks !

Post by **Attreyu** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:14 am

Okta wrote:Another gun sensor? I thought this was a locomotion system?

It is Okta ! The gun sensoring will be an extra touch, included with the locomotion package.

Post by **Okta** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:26 am

Attreyu wrote:
Okta wrote:Another gun sensor? I thought this was a locomotion system?
It is Okta ! The gun sensoring will be an extra touch, included with the locomotion package.

Cool, I'm keen to see your new concept that hasn't really been previously discussed hit the forums here.

Post by **Attreyu** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:24 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrM8GtaMgUk

Post by **blindboxes** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:17 am

We can finally see where the name came from

. This is cool. Any prototypes yet? How can you crouch when you have that harness?

EDIT: I agree with everyone else, once you have a prototype ready, you should get some PR and awareness before launching the kickstarter.

Post by **Benjimoron** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:34 pm

I like these projects, well done and good luck.

Although, isn't that an Omni in the video?

Post by **blindboxes** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:54 am

Benjimoron wrote:I like these projects, well done and good luck.

Although, isn't that an Omni in the video?

Watch the video carefully. See the base. It's not an Omni.

Post by **mickman** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 am

I was under the impression you've been working on a physical prototype.

So I'm somewhat confused... What have you managed to create physically over the past year ?

So where is this amazing Viiwok or is it very much a work in progress with no physical prototype.

It's fairly easy to simply strap a Razer to a toy gun and wave it around in front of a monitor.. Even easier is to use an Arduino UNO to simulate 9DOF. One can easily generate an Omni lookalike in less than an hour and throw it into a Unity scene.

So far this whole Wiiwok thing looks more like someone scrambling to cash in on the tail of JanVR's successful K.S campaign.

I really hope a few campaigns will be generated following on from the success of the Omni... But I also hope they are unique and bring to the table something new.

Good Luck and sure hope to see the working prototype before the 10th.

Post by **Attreyu** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:43 am

I usually don't reply to idiotic or haterish posts but maybe there are more like you so I'll try anyway

mickman wrote:I was under the impression you've been working on a physical prototype... You stated you've been working on this for over a year...but no physical prototype available.
So I'm somewhat confused... What have you managed to create in a year ?

I am working at the physical prototype. I think it's my personal choice to set the pace of releasing informations of my own product. There is a long string of trials and fails in bringing an omni directional device to fruition, which I've explained in my earlier posts on the Oculus forums, which are linked at the top of this thread.

mickman wrote:You also state you're ready for shipping.... So where is this amazing Viiwok ?

Bar the dumb sarcasm, I've stated quite clearly shipping would be available almost as soon as the announcement is made, after the crowdfunding campaign is finished.

mickman wrote:It's so easy to simply strap a Razer to a toy gun and wave it around in front of a monitor.. Even easier is to use an Arduino UNO to simulate 9DOF. One can easily generate an Omni lookalike in less than an hour and throw it into a Unity scene.

Congratulations, you just shat on everyone's work in this niche field of development. We're all impressed with your theoretical skills.

mickman wrote: So far this whole Wiiwok thing looks more like someone scrambling to cash in on the tail of JanVR's successful K.S campaign.

How so ? How exactly would I "cash in" on Jan's KickStarter campaign ? I will have my own campaign, I'm in europe therefore I will probably have an Indiegogo campaign. Even so, I've stated numerous times I'll interfere in no way with his campaign, you could even ask Jan personally about this. In fact that's one of the reasons I still try to keep the details vague and waiting for his KS to end before I present my work.

I'm no hater, I haven't attacked or mocked anyone, I kept to my thread in general and tried to be friendly to everybody.

Post by **mickman** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:01 am

Woooo.... Slow down there Tiger... Let me have time to complete my message....

Idiotic and haterish... Is way over the top. Especialyy for someone looking to start a campaign...

If you're really serious in you're endeavour to get funded I feel you really need to build up a decent amount of trust before marketing any product.. Yes? Verbal assault from someone is not a very good outcome for someone wanting to build trust in the community. These people have to be willing to lay down $ to someone they honestly feel they can trust... And an outburst like that simply gets people thinking... Woo this guy is a loose canon.

Accept the criticism... Not attack it.

I usually don't reply to idiotic or haterish posts but maybe there are more like you so I'll try anyway

I really like the fact you might be able to offer the ViiWok at a reduced price and here inEurope...cool. I even like the idea of no kinect etc.. Awesome... & I also like the idea that one can express their thoughts regarding how you threw up this thread a day before JanVR's kick starter was about to launch... And state it is not in competition with the Omni... Cough cough...

But hey at the end of the day.... I hope you are able to address questions from the community however retaliatory they may appear... You for one should be open to criticism... Yes?

I sure hope so.
Enjoy