STINKY the gaming footboard!

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jhouff
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STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by jhouff »

Greetings all!

I'm suprised no-one is talking about the STINKY gaming footboard on MTBS3D! It seems like it will be an amazing add-on to the Rift.

Here are a couple quotes I found on the KS comments:

Ernest Cheung: "Looking forward to using this with the oculus rift"

LuLu Technologies: "@ Ernest - We've had many reporters, including Rich Brown fron CNET, wanting to use it with Oculus Rift. It will be a great companion!"

Here is a link to their KS: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/289 ... -your-game

What do you guys think? 8-)

edit: Here is another really good quote: What I especially liked about using the Stinky board is that it lent a smoother, more automatic flow to my gameplay. I didn't have to think about where the sprint key was. For more obscure commands on more obscure keys, you can also save yourself from taking your eyes off the action. Pressing down with my foot for the most part felt surprisingly natural. If virtual-reality headsets like the forthcoming Oculus Rift ever take off, gamers won't have the ability to look down at their keyboards. In that event, a no-look product like the Stinky Footboard might even become essential.

CNET Review: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-9020_7-575 ... -the-feet/
Last edited by jhouff on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by PatimPatam »

No analog input?? Honestly i think for VR a standard Wii Balance Board (or similar) will be much more useful than this:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=17013

Still i guess some people would appreciate having some extra keys..
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by jhouff »

Mind you this would not be ideal for movement, but it does give you access to addtional keys without seeing your keyboard / gamepad.

I backed it!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Rickardo69 »

Yea i can see this being very usefull in conjunction with the rift
Ive back it too. :D
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by jhouff »

Rickardo69 wrote:Yea i can see this being very usefull in conjunction with the rift
Ive back it too. :D
Thataboy Rockardo!

I found out about it today and I instantly thought it was a no-brainer for the Rift!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Rickardo69 »

Well i was a little shocked to see it has been running for over two weeks , reaching over half its goal and not reading about it before now.
Maybe ive had my head buried in the sand for a couple of weeks.
Nevertheless feet control whist sitting down without being able to see my keyboard should be a big plus.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by crespo80 »

We talked already about the stinky board on this forum, I even contacted the author and he was very kind. But I don't think I'll back it because for me the purpose of a foot board is to allow a natural way of moving in VR and not just adding four additiobal keys, though the build quality and feeling seems top notch!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Aabel »

It's a cool idea, and is great for current games built around current input paradigms but it is not something I am excited to use in VR development, therefore I won't be backing it. It does sound like they have other products in mind to develop and who knows perhaps one of those will be better suited to VR. Definitely a company worth keeping an eye on.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by HeadTrip »

I used it for 5 min., at PAX east...my impressions using it with Hawken.

- Felt more stable and sturdy than I expected.
- got used to it pretty quickly, I can see how it could become second nature.
- the actual amount you need to move your foot around seemed to be excessive. My ankles would take a beating... but I bet you could get used to it pretty quickly. I wonder if there are sensitivity settings, I would turn it up so not so much foot travel was needed.
- they knew all about the Rift and were really open to talking about it. Nothing official, just "Yeah that sounds great, we cant wait to try it too"
- could be a good addition to our VR setups, tempted to get one when they release.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by brainpann »

Wow! Thanks for sharing this. I was seriously drawing up plans for something very similar at work last week. I was even gonna consider a kickstarter if I could get a good prototype working. Glad to see it was already done. Supported!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Libertine »

I wonder if they're aware that some people have an aversion just to that word.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by cybereality »

I know you shouldn't judge on a name, but really? They couldn't come up with something better?

Doesn't look that useful for VR really anyway.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by jhouff »

I can't see how anyone wouldn't find the Stinky useful for VR. It's perfect! But everyone has there own opinion.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by crespo80 »

jhouff wrote:I can't see how anyone wouldn't find the Stinky useful for VR. It's perfect! But everyone has there own opinion.
well, even the inventors don't promote the board as a WASD replacement but really as a no-look deviice with 4 additional keys, aimed primarly to MMO/RTS games where a lot of keys are involved and quickly find and press a key is essential
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Randomoneh »

jhouff wrote:I can't see how anyone wouldn't find the Stinky useful for VR. It's perfect! But everyone has there own opinion.
This type of input device is perfect for VR. Just imagine using your hands for hand motion (Hydra, gloves?) while you're sitting in a chair. How are you going to move? Footboard seems to be a much more natural solution than using hands.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MrGreen »

jhouff wrote:I can't see how anyone wouldn't find the Stinky useful for VR. It's perfect! But everyone has there own opinion.
How does it follow me when I turn around? Oh it doesn't. Perfect? Useless.

To me anyway. :)
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by DarkAkuma »

I agree, the name choice is bad and is going to be off-putting to a lot of potential consumers. I know it's probably an exaggerated effect for the sake of the video, but they make it come across as sounding noisy too.

But I do like the idea. It's a perfect fit for WoW (as they seem to already have in mind), thanks to Blizzards obsession in recent years to keep adding more and more keys that need to be used more and more often. Most people seem to only naturally and comfortably use 1-4, or Tilda + 1-5 at the most with the WASD setup. Alt as a modifier key helps double that. Ctrl and Shift aren't as convenient, at least for me. A gaming mouse helps some, but depends on how many buttons beyond the standard 3. Adding a potential 8 more easily useable hotkeys to WoW for me seems very nice.

I don't see how this could not be a good alternative to WASD. Sure it's not physically walking, but controlling movement with your feet (or foot) should be a lot closer to being more natural in the long run than with your fingers, or even your thumb when using a Gamepad. It's not a perfect Holodeck solution for VR like a omnidirectional treadmill or something, but doesn't mean its not useful for VR at all, or that it's worse then a keyboard of Gamepad. Taking movement out of your hands should also free up your hands to interact with a game in a overall more natural way was well. Like Stinky controlling your feet, and a Hydra controlling your hands.

I might pledge too, if it wasn't for the fact that $90 for a over-sized 4 button Gamepad seems more then just a tad expensive. As said, the buttons aren't even analog...
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by LordJuanlo »

I like it, when I'm too tired to keep walking or running on the Omni, I can sit on my chair and use this :D

I just backed it.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MrGreen »

LordJuanlo wrote:I like it, when I'm too tired to keep walking or running on the Omni, I can sit on my chair and use this :D

I just backed it.
Oh I don't expect I'll want to use something like the Omni all the time. But still I'd rather have 2 wireless devices that would attach to my feet with velcro straps or something, and be able to spin around in a swivel chair. I'll kickstart that when it shows up.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by jhouff »

How often are you going to spin 360 degrees in you chair? Watch Cymatic Bruce's videos, he doesn't swivel. Ever.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MrGreen »

jhouff wrote:How often are you going to spin 360 degrees in you chair? Watch Cymatic Bruce's videos, he doesn't swivel. Ever.
Eventually, as often as I spin in the game. One can hope there is more to VR immersion in the near future than turning around with an analog stick right?

Bruce freaking head bobs for crying out loud. I'm pretty sure he'll want to spin around before long. :lol:
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by jhouff »

MrGreen wrote:
jhouff wrote:How often are you going to spin 360 degrees in you chair? Watch Cymatic Bruce's videos, he doesn't swivel. Ever.
Eventually, as often as I spin in the game. One can hope there is more to VR immersion in the near future than turning around with an analog stick right?

Bruce freaking head bobs for crying out loud. I'm pretty sure he'll want to spin around before long. :lol:
Haha True! And I appraicate your opinion!

I do think certain games like Hawken and racing games could be awesome with a rift stinky combo!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MrGreen »

Oh for "cockpit" type games, sure!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Aabel »

DarkAkuma wrote: I don't see how this could not be a good alternative to WASD. Sure it's not physically walking, but controlling movement with your feet (or foot) should be a lot closer to being more natural in the long run than with your fingers, or even your thumb when using a Gamepad.

I see the stinky foot as being equivalent to a game pad as far is immersion and intuition goes. The only advantage it provides over current schemes is it frees up the hands for other input, that's it. When walking/running your legs are responding to a change of balance, that is the sensation you most perceive.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Likay »

I don't know... Reading their kickstarter page gives a bad taste. It's like one of those of dosens tv-commercials. The advertizing style turns me off whether i like it or not.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by DarkAkuma »

Aabel wrote: I see the stinky foot as being equivalent to a game pad as far is immersion and intuition goes. The only advantage it provides over current schemes is it frees up the hands for other input, that's it. When walking/running your legs are responding to a change of balance, that is the sensation you most perceive.
Umm. Yes, I agree? You quote me and come across like you're trying to disagree or counter my view, but you don't. So I'm not quite sure how I should respond, but I'll try.

I'm not saying this is the end-all/be-all of movement controls for VR. I'm saying it seems like a perfectly valid control for movement in VR, and it seems like an improvement over WASD keyboard and gamepad controls.

It should becoming more and more obvious to VR fans now that 1 control scheme won't rule all. Some just don't match up with certain game types. Like while using a omnidirectional treadmill in a car racing game might be interesting, it's not the most natural setup. Additionally each users preferences come into question. Like that while I'd love to be able to physically run around in a game, others might not. And even then I myself wouldn't want to use that control scheme all the time. Gamers often just want to kick back and relax when they play a game.

To reiterate, to me controlling a game characters movement with a foot controlled gamepad like this seems more natural then a WASD keyboard or handheld gamepad, purely based off that you use your feet to control your movement in real life. Whether it works out well in practice, I can't say until I try it. It's just that in theory, feet to control movement makes sense.

As far as not being able to 360 spin in your chair and use this at the same time. That's only a issue if that's how you plan to play. Personally I don't. Again different users prefer different things. For me 180 degrees of rotation seems just fine, if I even want to move my body that much. When I get my Rift I plan to play from a semi relaxed stationary seated position most of the time, whatever the game may be.

Again though, I like this idea, but not the product itself. The WAY over pricing, horrible name, potential noise issue, and only the most basics of gamepad tech fail to sell me on it. Honestly, there's another guy on this forum developing a foot controller that would probably be worth following more. I forget his name atm, but I'm sure he will post on this thread eventually.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Aabel »

Sorry about the confusion. I do not see this being superior to WASD, it's equivalent at best. The entire design of the stinky board is ill suited for VR as it was never intended for any kind of new interface just an extension of current interface paradigms. Even if it were $20 I would be ignoring it for VR development. Moving the keyboard to the feet isn't the kind of innovation I am looking for in an input device.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by nateight »

DarkAkuma wrote:there's another guy on this forum developing a foot controller that would probably be worth following more.
Actually, there are at least two whole threads full of us; I encourage everyone interested in the larger topic to rekindle these discussions. I still think my simple pedal rig may find a place in the VR input ecosystem, but I mostly put the concept on the shelf until I can start testing how unnatural and nauseating it feels to control avatar rotation with anything other than the Rift's headtracker (87xx, grrr).

This "Stinkyboard" is a poor fit for character movement simply because the WASD scheme it mimics is a poor fit for VR; every first-hand account I've yet seen says that fully digital, on-or-off motion with no acceleration curve is one of the most offputting sensations you can encounter inside a Rift, the equivalent to getting shot out of a cannon rather than anything resembling a natural human gait from a resting position. Attempt to shoehorn this very capable macro triggering device into a VR context at your own peril and the peril of more sensible future input devices. ;)

Besides, Aabel already has what I consider to be a far more compelling foot controller demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOTnRoi1HDA

Aabel, just peel the Nintendo stickers off and replace them with your own branding - I recommend the name "PooPlank". You clearly stand to earn a cool $75,000 or more! :lol:



EDIT: formatting
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MrGreen »

I'll buy one if it's bundled with those socks! :P
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by DarkAkuma »

nateight wrote:
DarkAkuma wrote:there's another guy on this forum developing a foot controller that would probably be worth following more.
Actually, there are at least two whole threads full of us; I encourage everyone interested in the larger topic to rekindle these discussions. I still think my simple pedal rig may find a place in the VR input ecosystem, but I mostly put the concept on the shelf until I can start testing how unnatural and nauseating it feels to control avatar rotation with anything other than the Rift's headtracker (87xx, grrr).

This "Stinkyboard" is a poor fit for character movement simply because the WASD scheme it mimics is a poor fit for VR; every first-hand account I've yet seen says that fully digital, on-or-off motion with no acceleration curve is one of the most offputting sensations you can encounter inside a Rift, the equivalent to getting shot out of a cannon rather than anything resembling a natural human gait from a resting position. Attempt to shoehorn this very capable macro triggering device into a VR context at your own peril and the peril of more sensible future input devices. ;)

Besides, Aabel already has what I consider to be a far more compelling foot controller demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOTnRoi1HDA

Aabel, just peel the Nintendo stickers off and replace them with your own branding - I recommend the name "PooPlank". You clearly stand to earn a cool $75,000 or more! :lol:
It was you and your pedal project that I was remembering. I haven't been checking the other forums recently, so I didn't know about Aabel's Wii balance board tests.

I know the balance board has been idly talked about for months. In theory to me it should be better then this, on all counts for VR. The lack of analog in this project (of which the name I'm already sick of) really limits it with VR for the acceleration issues as you said. I'm sure games could have some controls schemes coded to ease into a run the longer you hold a button down and such. Not perfect, but could help if done right. Though that's a poor fix to a issue the device itself should be addressing.

My only concern with considering this being effective for VR is purely about this having a wider range of use. It definitely seems effective for hotkey assignment, and having a place in VR, even slightly over a WASD keyboard setup, would help the tech hit a wider audience. Sadly this project itself is far from being that diverse type of product. But I guess at least it's a step, and helps future projects know what to do or not do. Or if the kickstarter fails, hopefully they get the idea and address the issues themselves.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Pingles »

I love the name. Honestly, if I backed it it would be because of that bold name choice. Screw marketing. It's Stinky!
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Aabel »

After discussing this a bit with my wife it's possible the stinky could be superior to the Wii board, IF it was pressure sensitive in each of it's quadrants and if IF the SDK supports more than one board connected at a time. This thing is close to being a good input for VR.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by DarkAkuma »

Aabel wrote:After discussing this a bit with my wife it's possible the stinky could be superior to the Wii board, IF it was pressure sensitive in each of it's quadrants and if IF the SDK supports more than one board connected at a time. This thing is close to being a good input for VR.
And IF x2 pressure sensitive stinkers didn't cost 4-5x as much as what you can get a Wii fit for...
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by nateight »

DarkAkuma wrote:
Aabel wrote:IF it was pressure sensitive in each of it's quadrants and if IF the SDK supports more than one board connected at a time.
And IF x2 pressure sensitive stinkers didn't cost 4-5x as much as what you can get a Wii fit for...
$100 does feel a little exploitative for what amounts to four tac switches and a USB port. Two of these things together start to be a more attractive solution for movement in VR even despite not being analog, but now you're paying $200 for one peripheral. No part of this works as a realistic solution for foot control outside the monied flight sim crowd. It's a MMORPG macro trigger for your spare limbs, period, full stop.

In terms of parts, the analog for-VR-for-real version of this would be remarkably cheap. Even using a preassembled Teensy for $20, the only other electronics required would be either eight pressure sensors (would simple piezo discs work?) or a joystick-derived setup of two sets of two potentiometers or optical encoders. The custom housing would be the tricky part at the prototype stage (assuming you're a fellow peasant lacking access to a 3D printer), but this is yet another vital VR peripheral I could knock together in my basement and sell for a modest profit at $50. It's just not really worth doing without the backing of an established peripheral manufacturer, because you'd need to get thousands of these things out to people before anyone would even consider writing software that utilized them, and without any software supporting them...

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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MSat »

Aabel wrote:After discussing this a bit with my wife it's possible the stinky could be superior to the Wii board, IF it was pressure sensitive in each of it's quadrants and if IF the SDK supports more than one board connected at a time. This thing is close to being a good input for VR.

I agree that having varied pressure or perhaps displacement sensitivity would make it better than it currently is. For standing use, you would either need to have two (but it would have to be pressure sensitive and not displacement) or at least have an elevated platform for your other foot, otherwise it would end up being uncomfortable and tiring to just have one foot higher than the other.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MSat »

nateight wrote:
In terms of parts, the analog for-VR-for-real version of this would be remarkably cheap. Even using a preassembled Teensy for $20, the only other electronics required would be either eight pressure sensors (would simple piezo discs work?) or a joystick-derived setup of two sets of two potentiometers or optical encoders. The custom housing would be the tricky part at the prototype stage (assuming you're a fellow peasant lacking access to a 3D printer), but this is yet another vital VR peripheral I could knock together in my basement and sell for a modest profit at $50. It's just not really worth doing without the backing of an established peripheral manufacturer, because you'd need to get thousands of these things out to people before anyone would even consider writing software that utilized them, and without any software supporting them...
Not too long ago I had looked into using piezo transducers in a manner you suggested, but at best, they're only suitable for quasi-static weight sensing so they're not a particularly good option. The best method, and is what Nintendo uses on the Balance Board (though they're used in practically all electronic weight sensing applications) is load cells utilizing strain gauges - particularly in a full Wheatstone bridge arrangement with temperature compensation. An example of this is: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10245 (though it appears to only be half of a Wheatstone bridge).
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by nateight »

MSat wrote:For standing use
Hmm, as per usual, I'd been thinking about this strictly with regard to seated use. Thing is, everywhere I look I see people with Rifts saying standing immeasurably increases your immersion, so I may have to reconsider my "stance". :lol: :roll:

I do think the Balance Board is about as good as anything is going to get when standing (possibly excluding Doc Ok's virtual movement ring approach, but even that would seem to lead to a lot of people crashing into stuff in their physical environment). Just playing around with a Balance Board in WiiYourself's text monitor I was impressed with how capable the sensors are, so I'm having trouble seeing how you could build a superior standing-use controller that enabled independent foot input and yet didn't send people toppling into their environs or visiting their ankle doctors. I agree that the current Wii driver+Bluetooth stack middleware situation is a nightmare only to be remedied by something built with the PC in mind, but having a few million Balance Boards around to facilitate development actually makes such a later iteration possible. Reinventing the wheel here is only going to further fragment the smallest niche of an already niche market.

Seated use proponents don't have the luxury of Nintendo's very large foot in the foot control door, which makes me wonder if the arguably superior control scheme made possible by two analog foot joysticks is worth trying to get such a device adopted when the Balance Board works reasonably well. Foot control in general is already going to be a hard sell, so if a preexisting Nintendo thing and its PC-native descendants provide some level of input for both standing and seated use, maybe we should all just accept that device for now and not worry about replacing it with something marginally better until the Rift 2.0?
MSat wrote:load cells utilizing strain gauges - particularly in a full Wheatstone bridge arrangement with temperature compensation.
Ah, thank you! I figured there would be something perfectly suited to this application, but even producing the things at scale, eight sensors that cost $10 singly might be trouble for that $50 price point. Two potentiometers in the style of a joystick would probably be the first thing I'd try, then, though the necessarily short travel distance of the pedals might present a problem.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by MSat »

@nateight

Re: Wii Balance Board seated use
Aabel has reported that the control scheme he implemented with the balance board is actually easier to use seated than while standing. So either is an option.


As for the price of the load cells, don't let sparkfun be an indicator for the cost of components an OEM would pay. Alibaba has a lot of listings for similar devices in the $1-2 range.

There's a particular manufacturer I have considered approaching for PC-centric balance board-like peripheral, but it's too much of an undertaking to go at it alone, and I have no suitable business connections.
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by Aabel »

DarkAkuma wrote: And IF x2 pressure sensitive stinkers didn't cost 4-5x as much as what you can get a Wii fit for...
It's not just about cost. The drivers for Wii peripherals on Windows are all reverse engineered hacks, and then you have to factor in the bluetooth adapter/stack compatibility issues and it becomes a deployment nightmare. Wii peripherals in Windows aren't necessarily plug and play and I don't want to put a game out that uses a control scheme that requires the end user to manage which bluetooth stack and adapter they are using.


Wii peripherals on Windows is nothing more than a fun little curiosity unless Nintendo steps in with some official peripherals and drivers designed to work on the PC. We all know that isn't going to happen.
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QUAKE
One Eyed Hopeful
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Re: STINKY the gaming footboard!

Post by QUAKE »

Does anyone know about this product that was announced 18 years ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVtcMhVp4ag&t=24m52s
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