Palmer backing Omni VR treadmill Kickstarter

[Omozinox]

Very cool news. I've been waiting for this to get kick started and it seems it's going to happen soon.

http://www.3dfocus.co.uk/3d-news-2/ocul ... aign/12746

[Mark2036]

Looks like its developing well. Only issue is it looks like it probably won't be able to handle side stepping / strafing with the groove alignment on the shoes?

[zalo]

Sure you can! Didn't you see the video?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpYJXrDHOBk[/youtube]
About 20 seconds in

[Aabel]

It's so loud

This will be cool to have for sure, it will take time for it to catch on, but it's day will come. I am sure of it.

[mattyeatsmatts]

no need for treadmills anymore

[JanVR]

I wish I had just turned down the volume of my recording mic a bit It's actually not much louder than a regular treadmill.

[XPSJ]

I wish I had just turned down the volume of my recording mic a bit It's actually not much louder than a regular treadmill.

Hi Janvr,

It's starting to look like a really nice prototype! Do you have a solution for the cablemanagement? Because I made some drawings a couple of months ago for a similar concept.
Maybe I can pm/email them to you because my concept will never see the daylight .

Greetings from The Netherlands!

J

[remosito]

Howdie Jan,

very excited when I read about Palmer, Roberts and co getting a test-drive and liking it. And now
the interview. Things are shaping up nicely indeed

I registered just to get your feedback on a train of thought I had since I first read about the omni.

Personally I feel that for the kind of more slowly paced exploration games the OR and Omni are a
perfect fit. Good crouching/ducking is kinda key. I know you can trigger crouching by bend-over.
But then your IRL-VR axis don't line up no more. Does sound rather suboptimal.

So I brooded over this a while and came up with possible idea:
Have some kind of (climbing) harness attached to the hip ring. This would not only allow for sitting down,
but one could trigger crouching/ducking by sitting into the harness and lift both feets off the ground.
Jump vs Crouch differentiation could be done by checking both on foot pressure pre-foot-liftoff as well
as pull/strain on harness. Jump would be high pressure pre-liftoff and no pull on harness. Crouch would be
normal pressure pre-foot-liftoff and pull on harness.

My gut tells me this sounds way too simple for you to not already have considered it.
So I must overlook something. What is it?

[crespo80]

@JanVR
Your device is amazing, I'm looking forward to the kickstarter and I hope I can afford at least the DIY version with only the sliding platform and the shoes (by the way, great idea to provide that!), can I ask you something?

It seems from the latest video that you're using a pair of shoes resembling a real mocassin, did you change something about the groove/pin mechanism? It would be great if you could replace those white orthopedic-like bulky shoes, never really appreciated their looks

You say the platform is compatible with the hydra, where do you think it's the best spot for the base to be placed? Over the head like on the holodeck project? Or firmly attached to the base or the waist support of the omni? Are you also working on the needed sensor fusion algorithm to possibly compensate for it? I mean, if the base is on the head you have to subtract head movements in order for the hand controllers to be steady in front of the user; while if the base is attached to the Omni, you have to subtract the body movements to achieve the same goal.

Since we'll use your platform with a wired HMD (let's hope for a wireless consumer Rift version!) with the risk of twisting and breaking the cable, is your tracker capable of counting how many times the body turns 360° clockwise or counterclockwise, and possibly allert the user with a warning message on screen?

[FR3D]

oh yes - some sports while gaming ...

[topas]

Wow, that's great! Looking forward to the kickstarter. Curious about the price.

[Paladia]

So I brooded over this a while and came up with possible idea:
Have some kind of (climbing) harness attached to the hip ring.

You mean something like this?

[FR3D]

So I brooded over this a while and came up with possible idea:
Have some kind of (climbing) harness attached to the hip ring.

You mean something like this?

OH yes - and i'm not joking ... with this design you can do a rollover too ... or can simulate swimming ...

FR3D

[geekmaster]

So I brooded over this a while and came up with possible idea:
Have some kind of (climbing) harness attached to the hip ring.

You mean something like this?

You forgot to put Rift goggles on that child before posting your photo!

I am sure SOMEBODY from the Photoshop thread will come to the rescue soon!

[virror]

JanVR: You said the device will interface with the game by simulating keystrokes, will this be the only way to do integration, or will there be a way to receive the speed of the walking movement as well so you can do 1:1 walking movement mapping?

[JanVR]

Thank you all for the great questions and suggestions! Just now catching up.

XPSJ: Would be great to see your cable management drawings - please feel free to PM to me. All input from the community is greatly appreciated!

Remosito: Thank you for your suggestion; the upper support structure is a complicated issue with many trade-offs. If you would like to emulate crouching by hanging with your feet off the ground, then you could actually do that with our current set-up. Note that we plan to offer a DIY option in our Kickstarter with just the Omni base, so that creative minds can build their own upper support structure. We can't wait to learn from everyone's input and ideas.

Crespo: good eye regarding the shoes; we currently have about 4 different pairs, and are still fine-tuning further. The white ones were our first (clunky) prototype; our final design will be much more elegant. We are still experimenting with the Hydra and with cable management, so stay tuned regarding those topics. Thank you for the "warning" suggestion - might be needed (and not difficult to implement).

Virror, our tracking itself will be capable of sensing speed. Initially, we need to make sure that the Omni works with existing games (i.e., by simply generating key strokes). However, the end goal is to provide game developers with more complex motion input (de-coupled viewing and walking direction, movement speed, etc.), so that more immersive VR experiences can be built.

Thanks again!

Jan

[remosito]

@paladia: Yes, something along those lines

@Jan: So there is actually no obvious drawback that I overlooked? While thinking more about it I figured if the omni detects when I am sitting
it wouldn't even be necessary to lift off the feet. Allowing for shuffling while crouched. From the looks of the vids there is a good foot
of play before the harness has to become the seat so the arms stay (more or less) comfortably/usably above the hip-ring....

With good enough translational DoF tracking in the OR (next version or via hydra strapped on), sensors in the harness wouldn't even be
needed. Just calibrate it for standing and harness sitting height and it's done...

Assuming mappings for crouching can be remapped from your default bend-over activator pose. Will that be the case?

[mm0zct]

I just had a though about walking.. could you integtrate optical mice trackers in the soles of the shoes? then you can do accurate 1:1 mapping of ground displacement based on the shoe slipping in the dish?

I'm sure it wouldn't be too dificult for someone to hack on later, but it would be a nice feature with minimal tracking latency and high accuracy.

[JanVR]

Hi Remosito, not sure yet regarding re-mapping possibilities, but should not be an issue to build in some flexibility (i.e., you can link your desired moves to certain variables).

The issue with optical flow sensors, like in your mouse, is that there is no tracking as soon as you lift your mouse up by more than 1/8". So you would not be able to track the "forward" part of your step, only the "sliding back" part, which is not sufficient to determine direction, reduce latency, etc.

[3Dmon]

This should work.

[Paladia]

This should work.

Good idea using the monkey ring as a cable management system.

[Paladia]

JanVR:
How well does running sideways work? The video shows some kind of sidestepping but you pretty much never sidestep in real life, you do however run sideways sometimes (at least in simulated combat, like paintball). Does it work well?

The guy in the video looks small while I am fairly large (>190cm, 6'4" and 100kg, 220 lbs). Will it work just as well for me?

[mm0zct]

JanVR: I think you should only need to track how much the dish has "moved" under your feet by walking using the mouse sensor to integrate the distance slid. This gives the position of the platform in the virtual world. Accurate positional and rotational tracking of the hips relative to the ring would provide rotation and subtle movements (eg with a magnetic sensor like the hydra).

The only thing you cannot track is people walking with their feet and a funny angle, you have to walk with your feet parallel to your body. Sidestepping and turning your whole body (which is tracked relative to the ring as mentioned already) should still work ok.

[norgoth]

it seem that http://www.virtuix.com/ is updated .
soon the kickstarter

[JanVR]

Hi Paladia, the Omni will be able to accommodate up to 275lbs and 6.6" or so, so you should be fine. Running sideways is probably not an easy feat; then again, even though it would be nice to have, it's probably not crucial.

mm0zt: the issue with an optical flow sensor is that you won't be able to register the foot moving forward, only when it slides back. This causes quite a bit of lag (ideally, you want to start moving forward in the game when you start moving your leg irl).

[mm0zct]

Sorry to resurrect this, I just found the tab when I fired up a system I hadn't used in a while. I get what you are saying about the flow tracking not detecting the moving your foot forward, but this should be covered by positional tracking of the person/head "within" the omni, while the flow tracker measures displacement of the omni itself within the virtual world. Does that make sense?

[Rickardo69]

Im really looking forward to seeing the Omni kickstarter launch
Hats off to you Jan and all involved, hope it does well.

[tbriggs]

If you can manage it emulating a gamepad analog stick might be better than keystrokes for many games since it allows finer control. Run vs. walk for instance.

[WhoIsRich]

I was thinking how practical an adult baby swing would be.

You could take a standard safety harness:



Then attach it to something, instead of the ceiling, some sort of C-Frame:



The headset wires could then be run up the central cable.

While searching, I found a ready made solution for adults in the form of a 'Love Swing'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cOz6ZU8AVU