First Impressions From Rift Owners
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First Impressions From Rift Owners
The Rifts are arriving!
Do you have a rift? Please post your first impressions in this thread!
I know it will be difficult to tear yourself out for a few minutes but please do, we all want to read reviews from MTBS people rather than just journalists!
Do you have a rift? Please post your first impressions in this thread!
I know it will be difficult to tear yourself out for a few minutes but please do, we all want to read reviews from MTBS people rather than just journalists!
- GeraldT
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
This one is from 22marks on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... ng/c94tkc6
I was able to get into the Developer Site and download the Tuscany demo.
My first impressions: Wow, it really is immersive. The field of view is fantastic. As has been noted before, there's a strange feeling of teleporting. And it also happens in reverse when you remove the headset and return to the real world. Very, very cool.
The head tracking is nice, fast and responsive. It has only hints of jitter that I don't think will interfere with usage. On the negative side, when you move (even relatively slowly) the entire image has a blur to it, making it look a little out of focus. It goes back into focus when your head is more still. However, this is a little more of an annoyance than I expected.
The resolution is as expected... on the lower side but definitely passable. There's a subtle screen door pattern, like early LCD projectors. If you stare at certain things, like a tree, you'll see the low resolution more. But when you're "taking it all in", it's not bad at all.
Moving around seems to be the biggest problem for me. Using a mouse/keyboard is very jarring and unnatural. I feel like there will definitely need to be a new type of control for this to work properly. Just a few seconds of mouse and keyboard can make you uncomfortable. I'm not prone to motion sickness--I've flown small planes for dozens of hours with no problems, for example--but this is a whole different sensation. I suspect it's something that'll get better with time... like getting your "VR legs", but expect the first trials to be on the short side while you get used to it.
I'd love to see a few convenience features, like a DVI/HDMI pass-through, for example. I have a dual-monitor setup and I have to completely unplug one of the monitors to use the Oculus. It would be great if the second monitor can automatically come back on when the Oculus is turned off.
Overall, this is a huge step in the right direction. The Oculus team should be extremely proud of what they've been able to deliver in such a short period of time.
want to demo the Rift or check it out? click here
- colocolo
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
hmmm... i wonder where the blur derives from and how it could be reduced in the future?
i guess it could be the Hz rate.
i guess it could be the Hz rate.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
When I saw the demo at CES, it had that same blur during head tracking movement. Palmer said it had to do with the screen not being fast enough to keep up with the head tracking, but I have my doubts. When I get my kit, I'll do some tests to see if indeed this is the problem.
Regards,
Neil
Regards,
Neil
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I believe it's from the low refresh rate/pixel response time of the panels themselves.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
from http://www.ledke.com/news/OLED-Advantag ... tages.html
OLEDs can also have a faster response time than standard LCD screens. Whereas LCD displays are capable of a 1 ms response time or less offering a frame rate of 1,000 Hz or higher, an OLED can theoretically have less than 0.01 ms response time enabling 100,000 Hz refresh rates.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
To some extent, blur has always been there. We've grown used to it. In this case, it is in our face, literally. Our entire view. And a new bit of cranial learning is taking place. Sensitivity to it may fade a bit. However, the whole view aspect makes it a bit more difficult to ignore. Every pixel shifts in every area of the frame (our entire window of human view), when we move our head, so the blur is accentuated, seemingly.
Interlaced CRT TV has the same effect, a minor learning curve. If you have not seen a interlaced CRT TV image for quite some time, you will note (if paying attention), when re-introduced to it, that viewing it will cause a slight pressure in and behind and between the eyes. Odd but true.
DLP projection has a learning curve as well. It is one of the most pronounced of learning curves.
I'm using a RP 1080P Samsung 56" LED light source unit, as I write this. It is my main PC monitor. With the LED bulb type, it can be on all the time, with no lifespan issues. DLP also produces the finest shutter glass based 3D, bar none (Internally it runs at 900hz, with no measurable rise time of any kind). Zero ghosting, and the fidelity is as high as that 3D system will allow for.
Nevertheless, I expected some blur in the image. This will improve dramatically in the commercial version, I suspect. When I get my Rift, I will tackle the blur. I'm not software, I'm hardware.
Interlaced CRT TV has the same effect, a minor learning curve. If you have not seen a interlaced CRT TV image for quite some time, you will note (if paying attention), when re-introduced to it, that viewing it will cause a slight pressure in and behind and between the eyes. Odd but true.
DLP projection has a learning curve as well. It is one of the most pronounced of learning curves.
I'm using a RP 1080P Samsung 56" LED light source unit, as I write this. It is my main PC monitor. With the LED bulb type, it can be on all the time, with no lifespan issues. DLP also produces the finest shutter glass based 3D, bar none (Internally it runs at 900hz, with no measurable rise time of any kind). Zero ghosting, and the fidelity is as high as that 3D system will allow for.
Nevertheless, I expected some blur in the image. This will improve dramatically in the commercial version, I suspect. When I get my Rift, I will tackle the blur. I'm not software, I'm hardware.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
The blur is 100% the panel. Think back to CRTs - at 60Hz, there was no motion blur (at least to my eyes), because CRTs flicker (which was headache-inducing, yes). LCDs (and OLEDs, BTW) "sample and hold," which blurs the image considerably @ 60Hz. Add in a slow pixel response time, and you get TONS of blur.Neil wrote:When I saw the demo at CES, it had that same blur during head tracking movement. Palmer said it had to do with the screen not being fast enough to keep up with the head tracking, but I have my doubts. When I get my kit, I'll do some tests to see if indeed this is the problem.
Regards,
Neil
The consumer version must be at least 120Hz and with a good pixel response time. The quality of the dev kit panel is definitely due to time issues (needing to ship out to Kickstarter backers).
- colocolo
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
can you overclock a display?KBK wrote:To some extent, blur has always been there. We've grown used to it. In this case, it is in our face, literally. Our entire view. And a new bit of cranial learning is taking place. Sensitivity to it may fade a bit. However, the whole view aspect makes it a bit more difficult to ignore. Every pixel shifts in every area of the frame (our entire window of human view), when we move our head, so the blur is accentuated, seemingly.
Interlaced CRT TV has the same effect, a minor learning curve. If you have not seen a interlaced CRT TV image for quite some time, you will note (if paying attention), when re-introduced to it, that viewing it will cause a slight pressure in and behind and between the eyes. Odd but true.
DLP projection has a learning curve as well. It is one of the most pronounced of learning curves.
I'm using a RP 1080P Samsung 56" LED light source unit, as I write this. It is my main PC monitor. With the LED bulb type, it can be on all the time, with no lifespan issues. DLP also produces the finest shutter glass based 3D, bar none (Internally it runs at 900hz, with no measurable rise time of any kind). Zero ghosting, and the fidelity is as high as that 3D system will allow for.
Nevertheless, I expected some blur in the image. This will improve dramatically in the commercial version, I suspect. When I get my Rift, I will tackle the blur. I'm not software, I'm hardware.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
The blur is 100% the panel. Think back to CRTs - at 60Hz, there was no motion blur (at least to my eyes), because CRTs flicker (which was headache-inducing, yes). LCDs (and OLEDs, BTW) "sample and hold," which blurs the image considerably @ 60Hz. Add in a slow pixel response time, and you get TONS of blur.
The consumer version must be at least 120Hz and with a good pixel response time. The quality of the dev kit panel is definitely due to time issues (needing to ship out to Kickstarter backers).
This blur is far different. I'm almost sure it's software related. I'll know more when I have the kit.
Regards,
Neil
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Alright, but there is zero reason for there to be a software-caused motion blur without specifically programming it in.Neil wrote:The blur is 100% the panel. Think back to CRTs - at 60Hz, there was no motion blur (at least to my eyes), because CRTs flicker (which was headache-inducing, yes). LCDs (and OLEDs, BTW) "sample and hold," which blurs the image considerably @ 60Hz. Add in a slow pixel response time, and you get TONS of blur.
The consumer version must be at least 120Hz and with a good pixel response time. The quality of the dev kit panel is definitely due to time issues (needing to ship out to Kickstarter backers).
This blur is far different. I'm almost sure it's software related. I'll know more when I have the kit.
Regards,
Neil
edit: I've been doing a lot of off-topic posts in these sorts of threads. I apologize for that - it isn't fun to see this thread updated and find that it is something that has nothing to do with it.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
The blur should be substantially improved over the 5" unit you saw at CES Neil. One of the reasons I like the Dev Kit so much more.Neil wrote:This blur is far different. I'm almost sure it's software related. I'll know more when I have the kit.
Regards,
Neil
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I am viewing this browser window on a 2560x1440 IPS LCD display. I reduced the window size so I could move it around on the screen. I put my face close to the screen (use reading glasses if that helps), and I held my mouse while my elbow was pressed to my side. Then I leaned back and forth so the mouse movements tracked my head movements. This moved the window so it tracked my gaze. The text had a fading trail behind it, depending on motions speed. Fast speeds showed a clear fading trail left by the text. The trail was typically no more than the size of the letters, but it clearly blending together adjacent letters in a word making it unreadable. I could still count how many rows of text while moving vertically, but it was motion-blurred by the display itself.
This was not a buffering or frame update thing, or I would have seen a trail of multiple images. This was a smooth blur, showing pixels that were fading out over time. It is clearly pixel switching time...
The Rift displays may be different, but I suspect any blurred trails are caused by the same problem as my little experiment just showed.
The obvious solution would be to switch to clearly superior CRT display technology!
Actually, you can this undesirable motion blur in software by minimizing high contrast edges where blur could be noticed. This means moving text (or other high-contrast edges) will need to be surrounded by a lot of anti-aliasing, I think, which can be gotten with supersampling as Palmer recommends. But that comes at the expense of geometric blur, so some experimentation will be needed with actual equipment...
We just need to adapt our content to work well with any hardware limitations, to provide a pleasant experience for the user.
This was not a buffering or frame update thing, or I would have seen a trail of multiple images. This was a smooth blur, showing pixels that were fading out over time. It is clearly pixel switching time...
The Rift displays may be different, but I suspect any blurred trails are caused by the same problem as my little experiment just showed.
The obvious solution would be to switch to clearly superior CRT display technology!
Actually, you can this undesirable motion blur in software by minimizing high contrast edges where blur could be noticed. This means moving text (or other high-contrast edges) will need to be surrounded by a lot of anti-aliasing, I think, which can be gotten with supersampling as Palmer recommends. But that comes at the expense of geometric blur, so some experimentation will be needed with actual equipment...
We just need to adapt our content to work well with any hardware limitations, to provide a pleasant experience for the user.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Is VSYNC an option for technology like this? It's not quite the same as tearing, but maybe it would help?
Regards,
Neil
Regards,
Neil
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Withoud strong overdrive settings by the display controller software of LCD monitors, you can't get rid of motion blur. And many of the LCD monitors introduce ghosting as tradeoff when having the overdrive cranked up. The panel of the Rift is maybe like an average IPS monitor without overdrive. I wonder how this could be solved other than going OLED, because the mobile LCD display vendors may not see the problem.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
The Rift has display brightness and contrast controls on the controller. It may reduce motion blur to turn those way down, and let your eyes dark adapt to the reduced settings...
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
thank you, this tells me I'm on the right track, in my thinking.STRZ wrote:Withoud strong overdrive settings by the display controller software of LCD monitors, you can't get rid of motion blur. And many of the LCD monitors introduce ghosting as tradeoff when having the overdrive cranked up. The panel of the Rift is maybe like an average IPS monitor without overdrive. I wonder how this could be solved other than going OLED, because the mobile LCD display vendors may not see the problem.
Of course, any solve I may come up with will be temporary, as the designs will change fast. Almost not worth my time.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
hey guys, did a quick interview with roadtovr with my impressions: http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/03/29/jayo ... sions-4371
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Here's a good read about motion blur with some interesting approaches
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/motion_blur.htm
But it seems that even some OLED displays have motion blur, another interesting read http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/
Nice interview Jayoh, saw it on reddit. Tell us a bit more about it
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/motion_blur.htm
But it seems that even some OLED displays have motion blur, another interesting read http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/
Nice interview Jayoh, saw it on reddit. Tell us a bit more about it
Last edited by STRZ on Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I would like to know if you guys are getting a DVD with demos, because at the Oculus Developer Center the only demo available is Tuscan, I can't find the DriVR or Epic Citadel demos to download.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Good read, thanks for sharing. Its getting me excited for my RIFT.jayoh wrote:hey guys, did a quick interview with roadtovr with my impressions: http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/03/29/jayo ... sions-4371
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Motion blur can be drastically reduced by using 'light boost' technology, seen on some LCD monitors. Video in action here:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s[/youtube]
Basically the backlight pulses, and the display is not lit during times where the pixels would be blurry. It was designed for 3d vision to reduce ghosting and increase display brightness with the shutter glasses, but it was discovered to have a rather great side-effect of virtually eliminating motion blur. There is no perceivable flicker as the display is so fast (120hz minimum), but there is somewhat of a loss of brightness. The tradeoff is definitely worth it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s[/youtube]
Basically the backlight pulses, and the display is not lit during times where the pixels would be blurry. It was designed for 3d vision to reduce ghosting and increase display brightness with the shutter glasses, but it was discovered to have a rather great side-effect of virtually eliminating motion blur. There is no perceivable flicker as the display is so fast (120hz minimum), but there is somewhat of a loss of brightness. The tradeoff is definitely worth it.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I'd be very interested to hear how much wearing headphones ads to the immersion. I know it does, but I'd like to hear some first hand impressions.
All the videos of people trying the Rift are usually on a crowded show floor or with an Oculus rep talking the user through the demo. When I tried it at CES, this was a bit distracting. As you move through VR space, without headphones, the real-world sounds break the illusion because it isn't relative to how you move in VR.
So frontliners, what are your impressions?
Thanks.
All the videos of people trying the Rift are usually on a crowded show floor or with an Oculus rep talking the user through the demo. When I tried it at CES, this was a bit distracting. As you move through VR space, without headphones, the real-world sounds break the illusion because it isn't relative to how you move in VR.
So frontliners, what are your impressions?
Thanks.
- Evenios
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
meh the blur isnt a huge issue for me i think. something youll prob get used to the more you use it. This being the dev kit there will be some drawbacks obviously but i think the whole package is well worth it Cant wait to try it out myself ugh i just wish the Dev website wasnt so slow. Seems they could have anticipated the load and had make sure they had stable servers considering a lot of other websites and forums get far more users ...but hopefully in a day or so it will be better . Managed to download the samples and all now not bad though when i try to use a prefab of the Oculus Unity plugin in my scene the screen is black. Ill figure it out im sure
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
According to a bill of materials I read about the Samsung Galaxy S4 with its 5" Amoled display and 1920x1080 resolution - the display module is only 75 dollars.
It gives me hope for consumer version that sports more than full HD, oled with insane refresh rate, lighter weight and better colors/contrast.
It gives me hope for consumer version that sports more than full HD, oled with insane refresh rate, lighter weight and better colors/contrast.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Lets see, perhaps the price even drops if Samsung will sell 50 million units in 6 months.Namielus wrote:According to a bill of materials I read about the Samsung Galaxy S4 with its 5" Amoled display and 1920x1080 resolution - the display module is only 75 dollars.
It gives me hope for consumer version that sports more than full HD, oled with insane refresh rate, lighter weight and better colors/contrast.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
No DVD, No software in box. No perks as well. I think they pushed out the hardware to keep the pitchforks at bay. All in good time.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Not a lot of point in including software that's still in development in the box. It would almost certainly be out of date by the time it reached most people.lnrrgb wrote:No DVD, No software in box. No perks as well. I think they pushed out the hardware to keep the pitchforks at bay. All in good time.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
all of the software is accessible to users right now from the developer center. Dont really need a dvd since it's only 75mb in size.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I don't think Oculus plans to release DriVR to the community or at least they have never said the SDK would come with it.LordJuanlo wrote:I would like to know if you guys are getting a DVD with demos, because at the Oculus Developer Center the only demo available is Tuscan, I can't find the DriVR or Epic Citadel demos to download.
Epic Citadel (summer version) I believe will be coming when the Oculus ready UDK is released.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
The letter, manual, and multiple redundant cables and adapters don't count as perks? What else could we have included?!lnrrgb wrote:No DVD, No software in box. No perks as well. I think they pushed out the hardware to keep the pitchforks at bay. All in good time.
I don't even build rigs with optical drives anymore, almost nothing requires them.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Palmer its all good mate like i said your winning at life!
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Just got my rift, the blur appears to be software. When I move the mouse in the unity demo or the oculus SDK demo I don't experience any motion blur, it's only when I move my head. Or maybe it's a perception thing, where I only notice the blur when I move my head.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I think that's because the head tracker is faster than the mouse tracker. Maybe you need to lock the head tracking at 60fps.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I got both my units in today (Pre-Kickstarter). I played with the Unity package that came with the SDK. Very easy out of the box as you would expect of a unity package. Gives a couple cameras and a player controller already hooked up to the a xbox controller script if you want to use it (I'm staying away from keyboard/mouse). I was able to plug it into a couple of my projects and it worked straight away (i'm going to have to do a lot of scaling work I can see that already).
So far i've suffered no Motion sickness...but it did creep up on my wife slowly. The motion blur as mentioned by others is the only thing that's caught my attention as a negative (really in the scheme of things a tiny negative). But it's a dev kit...and a deving I shall happily go! wooo
So far i've suffered no Motion sickness...but it did creep up on my wife slowly. The motion blur as mentioned by others is the only thing that's caught my attention as a negative (really in the scheme of things a tiny negative). But it's a dev kit...and a deving I shall happily go! wooo
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
So how was setup?? Was it easy...Software demos easy to find and install??
Rift Demos
Total List of Demos
Enter the Rift http://www.entertherift.fr/gamecenter/f ... ?langue=en
Official Oculus Shared Demos https://share.oculusvr.com/
Total List of Demos
Enter the Rift http://www.entertherift.fr/gamecenter/f ... ?langue=en
Official Oculus Shared Demos https://share.oculusvr.com/
- Nick3DvB
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
ATI Radeon cards used to have an "LCD overdrive" feature in the driver control panel, not sure if it's still there though?
It's supposed to decrease the LCD switching time, so could reduce the blur slightly, might be worth a try...
It's supposed to decrease the LCD switching time, so could reduce the blur slightly, might be worth a try...
Last edited by Nick3DvB on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- MrGreen
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
It's funny that we never heard anyone compain about motion blur in the countless previews and now it seems everyone says it's pretty bad...
Anyway, dev kit etc...
Anyway, dev kit etc...
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
Step 1: unwrap all the plastic...the tons of plastic wrapping its like christmas
Step 2: Find a place to attach the control unit to the desk and clamp it down
Step 3: Run cables everywhere and find out that I have to press the power button.
Step 4: Mirror the right monitor to the rift (which shows up as a monitor called rift)
Step 5: Open downloaded SDK files, run demo...and notice it doesn't notice the tracker...oh yea forgot USB cable...okay done
Step 6: Turn on Xbox using wireless adapter to pc
Step 7: Load unity projects and drop in Oculus prefab and have fun, works and very easy.
Step 2: Find a place to attach the control unit to the desk and clamp it down
Step 3: Run cables everywhere and find out that I have to press the power button.
Step 4: Mirror the right monitor to the rift (which shows up as a monitor called rift)
Step 5: Open downloaded SDK files, run demo...and notice it doesn't notice the tracker...oh yea forgot USB cable...okay done
Step 6: Turn on Xbox using wireless adapter to pc
Step 7: Load unity projects and drop in Oculus prefab and have fun, works and very easy.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners
I wonder how much of a hazard would that be for epileptic people.TheHolyChicken wrote:Motion blur can be drastically reduced by using 'light boost' technology, seen on some LCD monitors. Video in action here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s
Basically the backlight pulses, and the display is not lit during times where the pixels would be blurry. It was designed for 3d vision to reduce ghosting and increase display brightness with the shutter glasses, but it was discovered to have a rather great side-effect of virtually eliminating motion blur. There is no perceivable flicker as the display is so fast (120hz minimum), but there is somewhat of a loss of brightness. The tradeoff is definitely worth it.