stereo sound and the rift?

[Dantesinferno]

I already know binaural audio is not easy to recreate in game. But I'm kind of having a hard time imagining the way things will sound when we turn our heads and how it will change whats coming through the speakers? Most people will be using stereo speakers. any ideas? It might just be really simple in the end, and i'm over analyzing it.

[Mystify]

If you have speakers, the sound needs to be determined in relation to your character's facing.
If you have headphones, the sound needs to be determined in relation to where you head is pointing.

[Dantesinferno]

@Mystify Thanks for the simple explanation!

[GeraldT]

the normal stereo pc speaker setup won't work - you need headphones. otherwise there will be issues that no title compensates for (or even could compensate ... if you have 2 speakers and turn your head 90° you will only have sound from one side)

[2EyeGuy]

I already know binaural audio is not easy to recreate in game. But I'm kind of having a hard time imagining the way things will sound when we turn our heads and how it will change whats coming through the speakers? Most people will be using stereo speakers. any ideas? It might just be really simple in the end, and i'm over analyzing it.

NO, most people will be using headphones. If you use speakers IT WON'T WORK.
Some games may support fixed speakers, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure Doom 3 BFG doesn't support speakers with the Oculus Rift.

For headphones the sound matches the graphics, which is normal for most games.
For speakers the game has to remember how much you turned using analog-sticks or the mouse, and how much you turned with your head, and use only the analog-stick/mouse angle for the sound.

[Dantesinferno]

hmmm... that is a dilemma . Surround sound would be your best bet then. but then the sub woofer wouldn't always be in the right direction.

Edit: I didn't see your post.... but if everyone is using headphones... how safe would that be, when you wouldn't know whats going on in the outside world?

[twofoe]

hmmm... that is a dilemma . Surround sound would be your best bet then. but then the sub woofer wouldn't always be in the right direction.

Edit: I didn't see your post.... but if everyone is using headphones... how safe would that be, when you wouldn't know whats going on in the outside world?

There are open-air headphones which allow outside sound come in, and which actually have better audio fidelity than closed headphones.

Personally, I want to be lost in VR-land, safety risk or no. I'll escape the fire when the flame tickles my arm

[GeraldT]

... how safe would that be, when you wouldn't know whats going on in the outside world?

you mean you don't have sneaky people in your life that would be quiet enough that you wouldn't hear them over a game anyway?

I know that I will close my door and lock it each time!! I don't need a heart attack each time someone wants something from me

[Vamplifire]

I picked up these bad boys for rift playing:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless ... headphones

I just cant imagine virtual reality in normal stereo headphones.

[Dantesinferno]

hmm.. I really want to get lost in vr too. lol but just imagine all the scary possibilities . A father not hearing his kid calling for help, or your wife/girlfriend breaking up with you, or just anything! lol.. I guess Open Air headphones would be the best thing. not trying to play devils advocate here tho. I'm a nerd just as much as everyone else on here. just a little worried.

[twofoe]

hmm.. I really want to get lost in vr too. lol but just imagine all the scary possibilities . A father not hearing his kid calling for help, or your wife/girlfriend breaking up with you, or just anything! lol.. I guess Open Air headphones would be the best thing. not trying to play devils advocate here tho. I'm a nerd just as much as everyone else on here. just a little worried.

Well yeah, if I had actual home-life responsibilities like a wife and children I'd of course use open-air headphones, as I suspect any man worth his salt would

Thank god I'm a college bachelor.

[Drewbdoo]

Wow, this site reads my mind. I literally just (withing 2 hours) got a factory refurbished Audio Technica ATH-AD700. I needed a new pair of cans anyway and these have had some street cred for having a huge soundstage. I can already tell you that the interrogation and virtual haircut stuff has been amazingly real sounding. I've been playing a few games and they are great. They are an open air design so, even while listening to tool cranked up at full blast, I can still hear my fingers click outside the shell. When my roommate gets home, I plan on seeing how well I can hear him right next to me when I'm playing a game, etc. So far, these seem a good fit.

[Dantesinferno]

I think every rift should come with a decent open air headphone, just to ensure safety. It doesn't have to be top notch, but just something that people can have. And their should be a large disclaimer for use with other headphones!
So they don't get sued by somebody with a BEAST lawyer. Just a safety precaution. With the way people sue nowadays people will try too!

Edit: I take back that Liebeck v. Mcdonalds example.. I just saw her burns... ouch.. that coffee must've been lava!

[GeraldT]

I think every rift should come with a decent open air headphone, just to ensure safety. It doesent have to be top notch, but just something that people can have. And their should be a large disclaimer for use with other headphones!

yeah please let me pay for headphones I don't need

seriously - you can buy them yourself if you want them. but why should they a) take away the choice from you and b) make the product more expensive for those that don't need them?

decent headphones are expensive! and I don't want open air headphones ... I want to be able to shut out all the noise surrounding me!

[Dantesinferno]

I agree with you man. But for something that is going to be sold to a lot of people you have to consider safety, and the way people play games nowadays(hours and hours/ sometimes i do to) there should at least be a warning. Maybe they could make two versions of the rift. one with open air headphones and the other without them(along with a disclaimer)

[Dakor]

I picked up these bad boys for rift playing:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless ... headphones

I just cant imagine virtual reality in normal stereo headphones.

I had the G35, the wired version of this.
I had very bad experience with this (Poor Driver Support, flashplayer only has one site audio, bad sound quality on explosions / bass, right side always louder than the left). So I send it back to Amazon and bought for the same Price a Soundcard with Sorround Simulation (Creative Recon 3D) and a nice stereo headset.
Even though the simulated surround sound in games was the only good thing on the G35, (if I managed to get the right side as loud as the left), I found out that you achieve a better quality with a good internal soundcard than with that small external one provided by Logitech.
On the other side I know someone who is satisfied with his G930 -and this is just my experience. Try it out, but I'd suggest to think about buying an internal solution.
Regards

[GeraldT]

I don't have an issue with a big red piece of paper warning people - that won't hurt and I am pretty sure they will put some safety advices into the box (like "don't Rift and Drive","living in VR will not meat your sustenance needs", "have a bucket nearby for your first session", ...).
Just leave me my choice of headphones ... just counted, I have 9 sets to choose from, I don't need more ^^

[PasticheDonkey]

from what they were saying at the press conference i think you could do binaural if you calibrate it. just have people look in the direction they thought the sound came from.

[KBK]

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/papers/aes/aes29.pdf

Surround to binaural conversion has been bandied about before.

What is needed is in ear headphones, and some basic choices of 'pinna algorithms', maybe a dozen or more. A dozen 'curve fits' of different ear shapes. Then you try some of the different models, and chose one that replicates the test signals properly for you.

The job of the 'pinna algorithms' is to replicate the patterns of the human outer ear, that we each use for spacial location. Not just front/back/left/right, but above (height) as well. The complexity of the signal is quite high. To be accurate, we are looking at 24 bit conversion of lets say.. a 48khz signal.

We'd have to go from a 48khz/24bit surround signal (5 equal power channels), to a stereo conversion for your particular ear shape. Or close enough in it's 'fit' that you can get used to what it is doing. We learn how to hear with just the one set of our original ear shapes. Some people think it is more unique in individuals than other physical features.

Considering that we can take a lifetime to learn these skills (spacial hearing skills) and they are for the most part autonomous skills, any conversion algorithm is going to be basic in it's fit to your ear/brain's given learned skills.

As much of the conversion as possible needs to be done in the given audio card itself, to keep as much load off the PC as is possible.

To work properly, the complexity of the required signal - almost defies belief (for those who have not explored this issue). The biggest chunk of neural horsepower that is dedicated to a single given sensory system in the human brain, is that of hearing. we have basics we can get by on, our brain is good enough that it can pull data out of 4 bit audio signals. (this last point came from telephony research in encoding digital signals)

To work best, to fool the brain, to have as much signal quality as is possible..this is what requires good, informed algorithm design, with high bit rate and large bit depth, which, as a pair of requirements - is the problem here. Add in the uniqueness of the ear and how unique our hearing is in it's learned patterns due to the individual ear shape, this creates an extra wrinkle to the problem set.

[Lark]

right side always louder than the left

I thought that was just my hearing! I found the sound quality with 7.1 to be totally unacceptable, I really should have just replaced my sennheiser HD555s instead of trying something new.