Virtuix Omni - Omni treadmill for VR applications

Post by **colocolo** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:24 am

i think 400$ sounds very good if you consider that Virtuix propably doesnt have such big investors like Brendan Iribe or who knows who else.

Post by **OutatimeTV** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:44 am

Well for me it would be:

$300 instant buy (and I think a doable price range)
$400 mmh, do I really need this ?
$500 no way
$600 no way

Just in mind that there will be (my guess) over $100 shipping to Europe plus $80 taxes (for the $300+ship. buy).
So I end up with about $480.

Post by **JanVR** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:29 am

Zoide, we aim to get the dimensions so that the length + girth + 2x height stays under 130 (which is important for domestic parcels), so for example 50"x25"x15", with a weight below the dimensional weight (aiming 80-105 lbs).

My objective of the Kickstarter is to break even on a cost basis (not taking into account any money invested so far or future money to be invested for tooling). Counting on Kickstarter to get a solid community following and get as many Omnis out there as possible. We will need the support of the community to succeed. Hardware is really hard; volume and credibility are crucial. The feedback from the community has been a great motivator and encouragement so far, so many thanks for that!! Let's make this happen.

Post by **colocolo** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:33 pm

JanVR wrote:Zoide, we aim to get the dimensions so that the length + girth + 2x height stays under 130 (which is important for domestic parcels), so for example 50"x25"x15", with a weight below the dimensional weight (aiming 80-105 lbs).

My objective of the Kickstarter is to break even on a cost basis (not taking into account any money invested so far or future money to be invested for tooling). Counting on Kickstarter to get a solid community following and get as many Omnis out there as possible. We will need the support of the community to succeed. Hardware is really hard; volume and credibility are crucial. The feedback from the community has been a great motivator and encouragement so far, so many thanks for that!! Let's make this happen.

hey Jan, i dont want to interfere with your construction process, but my responsibility towards true VR for everybody tells me to do so.
wouldnt it be possible to fill the body of the Omni with sand or even water afterwards it has arrived at a consumer ? that could reduce greatly the shipping costs and perhaps the production costs.
furthermore it would increase the stability of the platform while running.

Post by **k2k** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:44 pm

Hi Janvr i was wondering how tall you are as in your running demo in your garage you were sometimes catching your heels on the posts around the 10second mark, is there any way round this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpYJXrDH ... edded#t=9s

Post by **JanVR** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:05 pm

Hi Colocolo, you don't need any sand or water or weight at the bottom. I know the prototype was rocking quite a bit in the latest non-game demo, but that is now fixed by simply having good support underneath. There is no upward force when using the Omni, so no need for ballast.

K2K, no worries about the posts, as the final product will be slightly different than this prototype (renderings to follow soon).

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:38 pm

I think $500 is a fair price. More than that and I feel it would put most people off.

Post by **Mystify** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:46 am

The Omni was mentioned on slashdot
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/0 ... put-device

Reading through the comments, people seem less than thrilled by the idea. Its exercise, its less precise, etc. JanVR, I recommend reading through them to get a good grasp of the existing attitudes you will have to deal with. I don't think most people are conceptualizing it in terms of VR, or at least don't really understand the impact VR has on these things.

Post by **MrGreen** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:53 am

American geeks not thrilled by exercise, you don't say...

Post by **JanVR** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:46 am

Hi Mystify, thanks for sharing. Not too worried about that kind of comments, though. It is obvious that a player will be better at TF2 with keyboard and mouse. Comments like "this is crap because you can't rocket jump" are luckily totally irrelevant.

I just wish I had inserted a couple of jumps and crouches in the demo

Also, does anyone have a solution for an external video capturing card for PC? Need to get the FPS up. My laptop has no problems for gaming (Intel 3rd Gen Core i7 i7-3610QM 2.3 GHz (Quad-Core), 8Gb RAM and Geforce GTX 660M), but it does not seem sufficient for good screen capturing. I'll get a gaming rig in the near future, though, but am looking for a short-term solution.

Post by **mahler** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:14 pm

I didn't quite go through the entire thread yet, but have the following features of translating player movement into the game engine come up? Perhaps through an Omni SDK.

For example:
- Not just jumping but also calculations on how high the player jumps
- Not just ducking, but also calculations how low you are ducking
(positional tracking from the Rift could be partially usefull for the upperbody but Omni could track how much the knees are bent)
- Using a body skeleton to have steps actually be steps of your avatar

Does the bottom have pressure sensors sensitive enough for this?
Or should I expect more something like huge floor-buttons with either "on" or "off" state.

Post by **STRZ** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:29 pm

JanVR wrote: Also, does anyone have a solution for an external video capturing card for PC? Need to get the FPS up. My laptop has no problems for gaming (Intel 3rd Gen Core i7 i7-3610QM 2.3 GHz (Quad-Core), 8Gb RAM and Geforce GTX 660M), but it does not seem sufficient for good screen capturing. I'll get a gaming rig in the near future, though, but am looking for a short-term solution.

http://www.amazon.com/Avertv-Definition ... B002SQE1O0 (you'd need another PC with PCIe).

Records at 30FPS afaik, which is enough for YT.

If you buy a new Rig, you could buy a Motherboard, CPU, Ram + PSU now and install the capture card there, and hook it up to a TV. You can use the IGP in the meantime, and later add a decent GPU and the other stuff when you build your rig.

A decent motherboard + CPU + PSU + Capture card is probably cheaper than one of those highend external capture cards which record at 60FPS, take in mind that YT is limited to 30FPS anyway, so if you'd record something at 60FPS and upload it, it gets converted into 30FPS anyway. That's what i'd do, get half of your gaming rig already and use it to capture videos.

Post by **yomer** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:37 pm

JanVR wrote: Also, does anyone have a solution for an external video capturing card for PC? Need to get the FPS up. My laptop has no problems for gaming (Intel 3rd Gen Core i7 i7-3610QM 2.3 GHz (Quad-Core), 8Gb RAM and Geforce GTX 660M), but it does not seem sufficient for good screen capturing. I'll get a gaming rig in the near future, though, but am looking for a short-term solution.

Avermedia Game Broadcaster

It only records up to 1080p, but it seems to have very little delay.

Post by **Linkage1992** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:54 am

Jan, I have a question. Is the kickstarter omni going to be a consumer product or like the rift will it be predominantly a development platform with feedback going toward a better version? If it is a development platform, will you include a kickstarter option for those who want to receive the final consumer version when it's ready instead? I want to back it but I can't afford two omnis!

Post by **yomer** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:50 pm

Jan,
I can't stop thinking about how to use the Hydra with the Omni. Is there a video yet on this matter. Or could you explain your solution on this? My only guess would be that it would have to be strapped either to my body(front or back) or my head.

Post by **zalo** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:10 pm

This is why we need a wireless Hydra!

Post by **yomer** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:21 pm

zalo wrote:This is why we need a wireless Hydra!

But this is more than wireless. The base needs to be in a fixed point to allow the controllers to get their position tracked. If you're walking with a 360° freedom, the base station cannot be fixed to the Omni, it has to be in a central reference point...

this just hit me, hot from the brain... What if I fixed the Hydra base to a pole to the ceiling, and have it fixed over myself at the very center of the Omni? Could the Hydra detect the controllers' movements being at the center? Something tells me that it would have to know at which angle you're facing in order to calculate the position, emulating that it's always in front of you. Am I over complicating the implementation? Am I missing something?

Code: Select all

         ----------------------------
                          ||
                          ||
                          ||
                         ( z) <-- Hydra base

                       mmmmmmmm
                      S __  __ S  
                 BP   (  o J o )    BP <--Controller
                  \ \  \   -¬ /   / /  
                   \ \ _ ------_ / /
                    \ __        __/
                        |      |
                     (===========)
                        |      |              
                     (Rest of Omni)

The only other viable option would be to put the base on your chest or back since those are fixed reference points in relation to your hands. And even those have a little displacement when you move your arms.

Post by **norgoth** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:50 am

Janvr, i don t know if you plan it but could you do a founction that make you run when you push a button ?
You walk on the omni --- you re avatar walk at the same speed as you in the game
you walk on the omni + push the button----- you re avatar run in the game

I say that because i have seen some reviews or comment that said the omni is exhausting
One french review had for tittle " the most exhausting TF2 game ever " It was a friendly joke by this article but it s a reality i think

Post by **JanVR** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:58 am

Hi Linkage, the Kickstarter Omni will be a final product version 1.0. Tooling for a big piece of equipment like the Omni is expensive, so we cannot afford to bring out a new version every 6 months. We will definitely learn from the input of the community and keep track of all possible improvements for the next version, but tooling costs will prohibit frequent updates or remodeling.

Our next video will show Hydra support. No need to have the Hydra base turn with your body. Absolute tracking works in a 360 degrees environment (even though some games that currently support Hydra might need tweaking to allow for use in 360 degrees).

Norgoth, no problem if you want to keep the option to run via the push of a button. Just link the buttons accordingly on whatever game pad or controller you use.

Post by **yomer** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:25 pm

Good to know. I can't wait for the next video.

Post by **zalo** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:34 pm

By the way, what will the production Omni be built with? Wood, aluminum, roto-molded plastic?

And how will it ship? The apparatus itself could cost $350, but shipping could push it over $400.

Post by **colocolo** » Wed May 01, 2013 4:20 am

zalo wrote:By the way, what will the production Omni be built with? Wood, aluminum, roto-molded plastic?

And how will it ship? The apparatus itself could cost $350, but shipping could push it over $400.

yeah right, Virtuix has to open a very small assembly outlet in Europe where only one person would assemble and send out like 100 Omnis a day. 36500 Omnis/year and assuming he gets gross 36500 € would mean that he would make the Omni only 1 € more expensive.

Post by **ElMatarife** » Wed May 01, 2013 5:57 pm

JanVR wrote:Ha, not sure about that lasagna. I do make a good authentic carbonara

Ooh awesome, post the recipe and your favorite brand of pancetta.

Jan, if you're interested in DIY CNC milling machines to setup your own production facility without spending $20-40K on real machines, shoot me a PM and I'll happily talk you through the options. A friend and I build a Joe's Hybrid 4'x4' a few years back so I'm pretty knowledgeable about the available options.

Post by **JanVR** » Wed May 01, 2013 11:33 pm

Hi Zalo, the final product will be made of injection molded plastic. The Omni will likely ship in two halves, so the user will have to do some assembly before initial use. Logistics are indeed not cheap, but we'll make it work (distribution centers, pick-up locations if preferred, ...).

ElMatarife, thanks for the info. We have CNC machines at our disposal; not sure if we need to build additional DIY machines. Will surely get in touch with you if we go that route.

Post by **colocolo** » Sat May 04, 2013 7:00 am

@JanVR
do you use a special coating like Polytetrafluorethylen(also known as Teflon) for the platform or the shoes? i have read that PTFE glides on PTFE like wet ice on wet ice.

Post by **JanVR** » Sat May 04, 2013 9:22 am

Hi Colocolo, we do not use coating, since coating would not be durable enough. Our platform is made of a solid low-friction material.

Post by **colocolo** » Sun May 12, 2013 9:00 am

JanVR wrote:Zoide, we aim to get the dimensions so that the length + girth + 2x height stays under 130 (which is important for domestic parcels), so for example 50"x25"x15", with a weight below the dimensional weight (aiming 80-105 lbs).

My objective of the Kickstarter is to break even on a cost basis (not taking into account any money invested so far or future money to be invested for tooling). Counting on Kickstarter to get a solid community following and get as many Omnis out there as possible. We will need the support of the community to succeed. Hardware is really hard; volume and credibility are crucial. The feedback from the community has been a great motivator and encouragement so far, so many thanks for that!! Let's make this happen.

So, does that mean that you have to split up the platform in two parts? because in Germany there isnt any parcel service
that ships 140 x 140 parcels.
But here is a very cheap service called GLS which ships very large parcels like you described up to 40 kilos for just 15,90€.

Post by **JanVR** » Sun May 12, 2013 11:26 am

Hi Colocolo, yes, the Omni will come in two halves, so that it fits the packaging constraints.

Stay tuned for a new demo and Kickstarter teaser video this week!

Post by **Rickardo69** » Mon May 13, 2013 3:09 pm

like ive said many threads ago im really looking forward to seeing this kickstarter getting the kicking it deserves.
time to get my DM's out i think lol

Post by **fullmetaljackass** » Tue May 14, 2013 2:07 am

for your next video i would suggest to have the prototype in the main frame of the video and the gameplay in the small frame.
Everybody knows what skyrim looks like..

Post by **colocolo** » Tue May 14, 2013 11:57 am

fullmetaljackass wrote:for your next video i would suggest to have the prototype in the main frame of the video and the gameplay in the small frame.
Everybody knows what skyrim looks like..

i agree. the interest on the TF footage showed that many people are interested in the mechanism of the device.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Tue May 14, 2013 10:35 pm

@ Yomer:

What if I fixed the Hydra base to a pole to the ceiling, and have it fixed over myself at the very center of the Omni?

I suspect that will only work if you put the Hydra in front of wherever you will move the controllers maximally. If the hydra is in the dead centre of the Omni, I think you will run into problems with it swapping hemispheres.

I don't actually really know the sensing hemisphere layout for certain, but I'm assuming its 180 degrees in front of the sensor and 180 behind.

Post by **Pheregrim** » Wed May 15, 2013 12:49 am

WiredEarp wrote:@ Yomer:
What if I fixed the Hydra base to a pole to the ceiling, and have it fixed over myself at the very center of the Omni?
I suspect that will only work if you put the Hydra in front of wherever you will move the controllers maximally. If the hydra is in the dead centre of the Omni, I think you will run into problems with it swapping hemispheres.

I don't actually really know the sensing hemisphere layout for certain, but I'm assuming its 180 degrees in front of the sensor and 180 behind.

There's several videos out of people strapping their hydra to the back of their rift and have free 360° movement. I don't see the need to move the sphere.

btw, spill the beans already Jan >O < when is the kickstarter taking off

?

Post by **shent1080** » Thu May 23, 2013 3:33 pm

Its official, kickstarter commences june 4th!!!!

been hovering over my refresh button with anything omni related since sunday, like a monkey pushing for a food pellet i finally got my reward...

2 new vids on youtube

KICKSTARTER VID

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOYklm_C7Ks

HALF LIFE VID

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvODo6E8B30

nice one Jan, can't wait til the 4th.

Post by **yomer** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:25 pm

Jan,
Are you planning to telling us the pledge tiers for the kickstarter? Some of us need to plan ahead.

Also, after finishing the KS, how much time will you need to start shipping the Omni's?

P.S. Do you have another Hydra demo video with less in game jerkiness?

Post by **Krisper** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:38 pm

How is the Hydra being used in the demo?

Post by **yomer** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:52 pm

Krisper wrote:How is the Hydra being used in the demo?

The base is at the edge of the table and the controller is strapped on one side of the gun. That's in the HL2 demo.

Post by **Krisper** » Fri May 24, 2013 12:09 am

yomer wrote:
Krisper wrote:How is the Hydra being used in the demo?
The base is at the edge of the table and the controller is strapped on one side of the gun. That's in the HL2 demo.

Oh, cool. So you would need to be careful about turning the same direction too much.

Post by **Pheregrim** » Sun May 26, 2013 7:44 am

Couple of first real looks at the Omni ( :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGFuedKS9Mg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3NbURH14ro

Post by **yomer** » Sun May 26, 2013 8:41 am

Jan, you're using it over a carpet and it seems to make a lot of noise, which could en up waking the family. More so than a standard threadmill. I could end up killing the noise with headphones, but I wouldn' be able to use it during the night or early in the morning.

Have you thought about filling the Omni with special studio quality foam to muffle the sound? You can get some in foambymail, IIRC. The sound seems to be amplified because the Omni is hollow; basically like a drum.

Any thoughts or comments on this?

Also, there's no chance on hitting the posts with the knees, right?