Virtuix Omni - Omni treadmill for VR applications

[JanVR]

That's a relevant discussion. If we port existing games to the Rift and Omni and call that "VR", then no VR will ever be popular outside of VR enthusiasts. It just won't be good enough. VR is a new medium that needs dedicated VR games and experiences. De-coupling of viewing and walking direction is a must; that will at least get rid of the archaic "strafing" (which is really only a game developer's invention to allow you to move away from a target while not losing focus on the target). I believe there is a massive opportunity for indie game developers to create killer VR experiences, the "killer app" that makes everyone want to have VR. Porting existing games won't do.

TopQuark, thank you for your note. We are working on possible integrated tracking solutions for the Omni, so that you don't need a Kinect. Don't think you need a series of Leaps; accelerometers on the feet are a good start (and cheap).

Regarding the DIY option: thinking of having a Kickstarter reward of just the platform base, so that DIY'ers can construct their own upper support assembly (which is necessary!). Would be a good way to get input from the community and learn from everyone's creativity. What do you think?

[virror]

Regarding the DIY option: thinking of having a Kickstarter reward of just the platform base, so that DIY'ers can construct their own upper support assembly (which is necessary!). Would be a good way to get input from the community and learn from everyone's creativity. What do you think?

Sounds like a really good idea, win-win.

[colocolo]

Thats a great idea. But it would also be enough if one can disassemble the waist support.
I agree that VR games will have to be developed only with VR in mind.
Major engines like Unreal or Cryengine need to give support for full body capture via kinect, so that every Indie developer can begin to make games right.

[Popopinsel]

Hi Jan,

I just asked myself whether it is or will be possible to walk/run backwards on the Omni? And what about crouching?

Anyway, your latest YouTube video (Virtuix Omni - Non-game demo 2) kicks ass!

[Diorama]

List of people who walk backwards:

- Tourists looking up at the Empire State Building

- Bad actors reacting to something shocking

- Homer Simpson



List of people who run backwards:

-Fitness instructors and their victims.

-The Aliens in Colonial Marines

[T_K_23]

How to run backwards on the Virtuix Omni:

1: Run in the direction you want to go.

2: Look behind you.

[yomer]

That's a relevant discussion. If we port existing games to the Rift and Omni and call that "VR", then no VR will ever be popular outside of VR enthusiasts. It just won't be good enough. VR is a new medium that needs dedicated VR games and experiences. De-coupling of viewing and walking direction is a must; that will at least get rid of the archaic "strafing" (which is really only a game developer's invention to allow you to move away from a target while not losing focus on the target). I believe there is a massive opportunity for indie game developers to create killer VR experiences, the "killer app" that makes everyone want to have VR. Porting existing games won't do.

TopQuark, thank you for your note. We are working on possible integrated tracking solutions for the Omni, so that you don't need a Kinect. Don't think you need a series of Leaps; accelerometers on the feet are a good start (and cheap).

Regarding the DIY option: thinking of having a Kickstarter reward of just the platform base, so that DIY'ers can construct their own upper support assembly (which is necessary!). Would be a good way to get input from the community and learn from everyone's creativity. What do you think?

It's funny(in a good way) how the creation of the Virtuix Omni has given you that knowledge that many developers and gamers lack. I'm not implying that you're the first to say this, I'm just pointing out your insight into VR. People need to understand the whole concept of VR. It will be a slow process at the beginning, but let's hope it becomes exponential.

About the DIY option, I think it's a great idea because it will lower the price and even the shipping costs. You could send schematics to build the upper support assembly with the kit.

Have you thought of the final cost of the kit with and without support. I'm making some changes to my pc setup and sort of need to project my spending for the rest of the year. Now that VR is coming back, between the Rift, Omni, PC, accesories, etc my pockets are starting to hurt.

Your latest non game video is quite inspiring, watching you run and move that fast just reinforces our expectations for the Omni.

[Aabel]

It's funny(in a good way) how the creation of the Virtuix Omni has given you that knowledge that many developers and gamers lack.

It's not that they lack knowledge, it's a difference in design intent. Game developers want to make a game, the design of which is to provide entertainment, NOT realism. Realism is only useful up to the point where it enhances fun, and this is the hurdle that omni-directional treadmills face, treadmills by their very nature are not fun for the majority of the population.

Game developers and gamers do not care about what is realistic to do movement wise, only what is fun. It does not matter how old or 'archaic' something may be, it only matters if it is fun and if you design an interface that gets rid of something that game designers and players find fun you will find it VERY hard for your input to break into acceptance and use. It very well may be that once in VR with aiming and look completely decoupled people will back off of strafing, but that is something they have to have the freedom to do themselves.

[zalo]

Running backwards can be done by detecting the weight distribution between the two feet. (Pressure sensors in the soles)

If you're putting more pressure on one foot than another while walking, we can determine that your intention is to walk backwards.

[yomer]

It's funny(in a good way) how the creation of the Virtuix Omni has given you that knowledge that many developers and gamers lack.

It's not that they lack knowledge, it's a difference in design intent. Game developers want to make a game, the design of which is to provide entertainment, NOT realism. Realism is only useful up to the point where it enhances fun, and this is the hurdle that omni-directional treadmills face, treadmills by their very nature are not fun for the majority of the population.

Game developers and gamers do not care about what is realistic to do movement wise, only what is fun. It does not matter how old or 'archaic' something may be, it only matters if it is fun and if you design an interface that gets rid of something that game designers and players find fun you will find it VERY hard for your input to break into acceptance and use. It very well may be that once in VR with aiming and look completely decoupled people will back off of strafing, but that is something they have to have the freedom to do themselves.

Initially, the best software for the omni is going to be simulation and research in the professional front, and in exploration and non arcade games in entertainment. This might sound tiring but The Gallery is the best example of a slow paced game ideal to show off the Omni.

I meant knowledge, not intellectually, but as in having gone through the experience on what it should feel like or how a game must allow the user to interact with itself. That kind of knowledge usually presents itself until you get to actually use the treadmill/omni.

[JanVR]

Aabel, I agree with you that game developers need to focus on what is FUN for the users; it is indeed what matters most. My bet, however, is that it's a whole lot more fun to play a game with the Rift while standing up (and moving around), rather than sitting down and using a keyboard and mouse.

Even just 'standing up' with the Rift improves the experience; however, try to stand up with the Rift and play for a while without losing balance (or getting motion sick) - not an easy feat. I think the Omni might prove to be a very useful tool to truly enjoy the Rift and virtual reality.

[colocolo]

Aabel, I agree with you that game developers need to focus on what is FUN for the users; it is indeed what matters most. My bet, however, is that it's a whole lot more fun to play a game with the Rift while standing up (and moving around), rather than sitting down and using a keyboard and mouse.

Even just 'standing up' with the Rift improves the experience; however, try to stand up with the Rift and play for a while without losing balance (or getting motion sick) - not an easy feat. I think the Omni might prove to be a very useful tool to truly enjoy the Rift and virtual reality.

Does that mean that you tried it in conjunction with the Rift?

[JanVR]

Not yet, should get my Rift on Wednesday! Will be sure to share my first impressions of Rift + Omni. Hoping for an incredible experience!

[gray]

Strafing and walking backwards wont be such a big deal in VR scenarios. For example, if you're wanting to circle-strafe you'd run around your target in a circle with your gun aiming off to the side at the target, glancing forwards occasionally to make sure you don't run into anything.

It will be interesting to see how body positions are handled, crouching would be possible without the ring but obviously prone is more troublesome. You would have to take control away from native positional tracking which would be quite jarring to a user.

Good luck!

[colocolo]

@JanVR

when will we see a Virtuix Omni video in conjunction with the Rift?

[JanVR]

Working on it

[RABID]

will there be adjustments/options for the height of the waist ring? as a taller person (6'6") what would be waist high on most people is thigh height for me.

[JanVR]

Rabid, definitely, the support ring is height adjustable. 6'6" should still work (but that's probably our functional limit).

[MrGreen]

You've probably answered this one 156 times already Jan, but ain't the cord of the Rift a bit of a showstopper?

[JanVR]

The cord of the Rift is luckily fairly long (6 feet), so that works well. In a typical game setting, left turns and right turns seem to even out; no need to keep turning 360 degrees in the same direction. Some users on this forum have suggested using a tripod over your head with a slip ring, which should work well. We have not invested any time in this yet, since it just has not been crucial. No cables would certainly be better (and will be reality fairly soon), but in the meantime, a long cable is fine. Don't think it's a show stopper.

[RaLz]

Wouldn't strafing/running backwards be important for football/soccer game? I realize you could just go outside and play sports but eventually someone will make a VR sports game with similar mechanics to football and straffing and changing direction quickly would be important.

[MrGreen]

The cord of the Rift is luckily fairly long (6 feet), so that works well. In a typical game setting, left turns and right turns seem to even out; no need to keep turning 360 degrees in the same direction. Some users on this forum have suggested using a tripod over your head with a slip ring, which should work well. We have not invested any time in this yet, since it just has not been crucial. No cables would certainly be better (and will be reality fairly soon), but in the meantime, a long cable is fine. Don't think it's a show stopper.

Do the required slip rings even exist? I'm admittedly pretty much clueless about this (and many, many other things) but aren't slip rings usually for very simple 2 wire cords or something? HDMI + USB seems like a lot...

And then Geekmaster comes in with blueprints, diagrams, pictures and a whole lot of yellow text explaining how to make one.

[JanVR]

Haha. Played Half Life 2 extensively today with the Rift + Omni (solely for work purposes ) and never ran into a situation where the cable was an issue. Don't think people should worry too much about it.

RaLz, I am a soccer fan and player, but playing soccer on the Omni is a stretch, even for Lionel Messi.

[yomer]

Haha. Played Half Life 2 extensively today with the Rift + Omni (solely for work purposes ) and never ran into a situation where the cable was an issue. Don't think people should worry too much about it.

RaLz, I am a soccer fan and player, but playing soccer on the Omni is a stretch, even for Lionel Messi.

Come on Jan, throw us a bone or two. Kickstarter release and base price. You're killing me.

[STRZ]

RaLz, I am a soccer fan and player, but playing soccer on the Omni is a stretch, even for Lionel Messi.

Player and fan here too. Ok in Europe it's quite normal that you are

I guess something like this would make sense for soccer as long as you have the platform under your feet and bodytracking. If you have to jump for a header etc. you just pull yourself up. In the halftime you could lower it then into a position for dips.



I'd use the omni close to a wall anyway, because i can't place it in the middle of a room, not enough space. It would be cool to have a wallmount option for the "ring" as well. Perhaps something which can be fixed to a rail which itself is fixed to a wall. So that for soccer f.e you just would replace the ring with the bar and slide it upwards

[colocolo]

latest prototype
WAAAAAANT!

[MrGreen]

[yomer]

Jan,
I read the comment where you asked about the $400-$600 price range. For me and the average consumer, maybe $600 is a lot to ask for a product that is opening up the market. $400 seems to be the better price. If the BoM isn't more than $400, then initial supporters should get as close to that amount as possible. That's just my opinion.

Edit: How would you use use the Hydra while on the Omni?

[Zoide]

$400? Ouch :S

[LazloTheGreat]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but Hooooly CRAP, this looks awesome:
http://youtu.be/qpHWJMytx5I

[Aabel]

$400 is a bargain. Have you guys seen what a regular treadmill costs?

Looking amazing Jan, I love how compact it is and the center balance ring looks much improved in user comfort!

[JanVR]

Thanks!

We'll make a demo of Omni + Hydra. VR will need good hand tracking to improve the immersion.

My intension for the Kickstarter is to get as many Omni's out there as possible. We won't make any margin, and will likely subsidize a little (or try to make up with the lower and higher reward tiers). Note that tracking hardware will be included, so the Omni is a fully integrated natural motion interface for VR. The retail price after the Kickstarter (on our website) will be significantly higher. Taking care of our backers and community!

[STRZ]

Note that tracking hardware will be included

wow!

Kinect or have you found another, maybe better solution?

[Zoide]

Ah, OK. $400 sounds a bit more reasonable if the tracker is included. Would that price include shipping? How much do you foresee the box to weigh and measure?

Thanks Jan

[MrGreen]

Ah, OK. $400 sounds a bit more reasonable if the tracker is included. Would that price include shipping? How much do you foresee the box to weigh and measure?

Thanks Jan

Yes he's going to deliver it personally, mount it and cook you a nice dinner. $400 doesn't sound so bad now right?

[cybereality]

@JanVR: For the motion tracking solution, will this be doing basic joystick emulation or will you be providing an SDK so people can integrate into custom applications?

[yomer]

Ah, OK. $400 sounds a bit more reasonable if the tracker is included. Would that price include shipping? How much do you foresee the box to weigh and measure?

Thanks Jan

Yes he's going to deliver it personally, mount it and cook you a nice dinner. $400 doesn't sound so bad now right?

Do you think Jan knows how to cook lasagna?

I can't wait to get more details, see the rest of the videos and for the kickstarter to start.

[JanVR]

Ha, not sure about that lasagna. I do make a good authentic carbonara

I should stress that the $400-$600 range excludes shipping (will keep shipping costs separate, so that backers have flexibility). However, we'll find ways to keep shipping costs down as much as possible: distribution centers in Americas/Europe/Asia, pick-up locations, ... we'll probably even organize some pick-up meetings / events. We'll make it work.

Cyber, I think long-term VR will need more than just keyboard or joystick emulation: matching walking speed, absolute walking direction (independent of viewing), positional feet tracking (so that your feet can be rendered), ... an SDK is the way to go to enable this functionality. Luckily, an SDK is not needed for the basic functionality.

[Zoide]

Jan: Could you just give us an estimate of the size/weight of a disassembled Omni?

Thanks!

[feilen]

This sounds wonderful, especially the fact that it can simply emulate an analog input rather than requiring specific implementation. $600 is completely reasonable to me, but the lower bound of $400 sounds like it would win over the hearts and minds of gamers.

Or at the least gamers who need to work on their calves.