Buttons on the headset?

[phort99]

I think it might be worth considering adding a few buttons to the Rift headset so the Rift can be used as the sole input device in less complicated applications.

Some people seem to be concerned that the Rift will be a bit hard to use with a keyboard/mouse or gamepad because you have to feel around for the controller, totally blinded by having the Rift covering your vision.

I imagine having buttons on the headset would be a good solution because it's easy to find the headset (it's attached to your face) compared to searching for a gamepad on a desk or finding the home row on a keyboard. If you're doing something with the Rift that doesn't require a full gamepad (for instance watching a video) a few buttons that you can easily find by reaching up to your head would be ideal.

Adding four "shoulder buttons" to the top left and top right of the headset seems like a pretty good sweet spot. Imagine you're playing an espionage game where the primary means of interaction is looking through binoculars and taking photos. A shoulder button on top of the rift can act as your camera shutter button, another one as a night vision toggle, and two more to control your zoom.

Since this would add extra weight and cost to the device, what do you think? Should the Rift be kept just as a display and motion sensor?

[TheHolyChicken]

Adding four "shoulder buttons" to the top left and top right of the headset seems like a pretty good sweet spot. Imagine you're playing an espionage game where the primary means of interaction is looking through binoculars and taking photos. A shoulder button on top of the rift can act as your camera shutter button, another one as a night vision toggle, and two more to control your zoom.

Since this would add extra weight and cost to the device, what do you think? Should the Rift be kept just as a display and motion sensor?

What happens in that "spy/espionage game" when you're done looking through your binoculars and actually want to do something like moving? Perhaps this will be viable when we have good full body motion control, but until then I can't see just using a couple of buttons lending itself to the requirements of an entire game aimed at VR. Making the assumption, then, that we ARE going to want to do more things than 4 buttons would permit, we will therefore require more buttons/controls. This leaves you with only a few options:

* You use a controller instead, and at the start of play you must find the controller while "blind".
* You have MORE controls attached to your face. Playing a whole game using buttons attached to my face doesn't seem like an attractive option to me?
* You have SOME buttons on your face (for binoculars etc), using a controller for other abilities, and you would swap between them when appropriate. The problem with this setup is that you still have a controller, but now you're going to want to put it down and pick it back up during gameplay! This directly contradicts the goal of fixing the "finding the controller while blind" issue.

You're also running into the problem where users would be unintentionally jostling their HMD around during play when using the buttons, which I don't think would be very comfortable visually. Overall I'm not thinking it's a good idea, especially as it would add weight and complexity to the device It could be useful for extremely simple applications (eg a video player, as you mentioned), but I don't think the tradeoff would be worth it.

If Oculus were to add anything further to the device, I would absolutely prioritise:
*1 Positional tracking
*2 Wireless ability
*3 MAYBE a "see-through" camera (so you could see IRL without needing to take the Rift off). I suspect this would have to be pretty high quality and slick for users to actually favour this over just lifting the Rift temporarily, so probably unlikely.

[Dakor]

Using those buttons for Multimedia Applications like watching a Movie while sitting/lying on your sofa is in my mind a good idea since you don't have to use a gamepad or remote that will fall to the Floor and break your immersion.

For gaming the idea of changing to night Vision or take Pictures sounds quite good to me as well but:
I already had some devices with such "Multimedia-Buttons" like Logitechs G35. I never really use those, since you need to move your hand away from you Controller/Keyboard and touch the Button. Even Muting the Mic is faster with a shortcut than with the Mute button on the ear-shell.
Buttons like this only seem useful to me, if you have hand tracking, since you don't have a Gamepad or something in your Hand.
Moreover, if you can't use a keyboard blind, you will at latest loose your orientation when you move your hand to your Oculus to press a button. I can even imagine that buttons like those can kill the immersion since by touching it you'll get reminded that you are wearing a VR-Device. But That's just my Opinion.

[marbas]

I had this idea also about buttons on the headset, which I wanted to suggest. You beat me to it.

Kinda like the colored buttons found on gamepads. Could be handy for player camera zooms (sniper view) and the likes.

Only drawback I see (besides the extra production costs) is that while pressing buttons on the headset may disturb the sweet spot for optimal focus sharpness.

[phort99]

What happens in that "spy/espionage game" when you're done looking through your binoculars and actually want to do something like moving? Perhaps this will be viable when we have good full body motion control, but until then I can't see just using a couple of buttons lending itself to the requirements of an entire game aimed at VR. Making the assumption, then, that we ARE going to want to do more things than 4 buttons would permit, we will therefore require more buttons/controls.

I liken it to a mouse or a touchscreen. A mouse only has three buttons (five if you count the scroll wheel up/down), but it serves 99% of computer users as a primary means of interaction. Likewise, a pure touchscreen device also works well, despite having more or less the interactivity of a one button mouse. I don't see every game or application actually needing a controller or a keyboard. Part of developing VR should be in simplifying the interface, not further complicating it. An Xbox controller, to someone who's never picked it up, is scary, especially if you can't look down at the controller to figure out where the A button is. All gamers can find their way around an xbox controller and navigate a world efficiently, but people who aren't used to it walk into walls and get stuck in corners.

In my opinion, games that use the buttons on the headset should use only those buttons, and games that use a gamepad should use only the gamepad. It's not hard to integrate the headset buttons and even the act of wearing the headset into the fiction of a game (as in the espionage example), so I don't find needing to reach up and push buttons on the headset as an immersion breaker.

[Edit] By the way, that's not to say that I think this should be a higher priority than positional tracking and wireless. I just think it's worth considering, since the input situation for HMDs is a bit muddy right now, with everyone speculating about locomotion systems, motion controllers and hand tracking.

[GeraldT]

I very much like the idea of a couple of buttons on the Rift.

One for "camera mode" that is hardwired (if it is a camera in the Rift or an external webcam is another matter).

Others that are used by application "turn on your headlight, zoom in/out, take a picture (never thought of that), use X-Men laser (what was his name?)". Dakors mediaplayer would be good example too ... Play/Stop, forward, backward ... all you really need.

A build in camera for orientation is just a question of time I guess. If not in the first consumer version, then in one of the latter ones.
VR comes first, but at some point people will want AR and then the cam is a must.

I agree with HolyChicken on the priorities -except that I don't think wireless will be an option soon!
It adds lag and we don't want lag. It is more likely that at some point the image generating hardware will be transportable so you are no longer chained.

I do not think that those buttons will replace the real input devices (except maybe with the mediaplayer), but they might help with immersion in some titles and add comfort in all.

[MSat]

Luckily, the Rift is still in the development stage. If a lot developers find that there would be a benefit to adding some kind of inputs directly on the HMD, there's a good chance Oculus would listen and incorporate it into the consumer version.

[phort99]

X-Men laser (what was his name?)

Cyclops! That's another good example of where the HMD and button integrate well with the fiction!

If we ever get a Rift that has headphones built in, you could have buttons on the sides of the headphones too. Then you could put your finger to your ear like solid snake does to take a codec call. That's a pretty goofy one-off example but you probably get what I'm saying regarding integrating the HMD and buttons into the fiction.

[geekmaster]

I think it might be worth considering adding a few buttons to the Rift headset so the Rift can be used as the sole input device in less complicated applications.

Some people seem to be concerned that the Rift will be a bit hard to use with a keyboard/mouse or gamepad because you have to feel around for the controller, totally blinded by having the Rift covering your vision.

I imagine having buttons on the headset would be a good solution because it's easy to find the headset (it's attached to your face) compared to searching for a gamepad on a desk or finding the home row on a keyboard. If you're doing something with the Rift that doesn't require a full gamepad (for instance watching a video) a few buttons that you can easily find by reaching up to your head would be ideal.

...

You asked for it! You got it! Behold, the Rift Dev Kit Mark-II, now with MORE BUTTONS!

RDK2.jpg

[phort99]

it's beautiful

[GeraldT]

@phort99 yes cyclops, should have been easy enough ... thanks

@geekmaster - i can totally see a "dig your nose" sim with that one!! where you have to go in and get that probe out just like schwarzenegger ^^

[geekmaster]

And with the Xbox 360 controller integrated into the Rift, then Nate doesn't have to keep handing it to them while they fumble for it with the goggles on during the demos. Think of all the manhours that could save!

Now, all I need to do is PATENT it! (Just kidding!)

[GeraldT]

hehe ... doesn't happen that often in the later demos, but in the beginning I often just waited for their "air-grabs" ... soon that will be very popular when you try to remember where on your desk you put your controller

[2EyeGuy]

I'd like a button or two, but not on the front of the goggles where you are supposed to be looking through. They would be to simulate controls on goggles, visors, lights, or whatever.

Another alternative would be to just use hand tracking and detect when people are touching their head.

A third alternative would be to use the accelerometers on the Rift to try to detect taps on the outside of the device. It's probably possible, but I don't know how reliable it would be.

But when I think about VR, I always want to have either real or virtual buttons in various locations on my body to simulate whatever hardware the character is using.

a pure touchscreen device also works well

I disagree. I find them awkward and hard to use. I really miss the extra button.

An Xbox controller, to someone who's never picked it up, is scary

No it isn't, it's much like any other game controller. What you mean is, it's scary to those cowardly unimaginative irrational morons who've never tried or even thought about anything like it. Which is something our educational system should have done more to fix, because it isn't healthy. It would be nice if we could just round these people up into re-education camps and force them to face and overcome their fears before we let them back out into society, rather than having to cripple all our devices to accommodate their fears. But, I guess we can't do that, so you may have a point.

If people think buttons on the Rift would be intimidating, the buttons wouldn't have to be obvious, and games wouldn't have to use them. They'd just be there for games with complex controls for visors and head-mounted equipment for your character.

[phort99]

I'd like a button or two, but not on the front of the goggles where you are supposed to be looking through. They would be to simulate controls on goggles, visors, lights, or whatever.

Obviously the buttons smack on the front of the goggles were a joke. I would make them like the shutter button on a camera, so you're not just poking yourself in the face.

a pure touchscreen device also works well

I disagree. I find them awkward and hard to use. I really miss the extra button.

Touchscreens work well for games that were designed for them in the first place, games where you actually touch directly on what you want to interact with. I wish they had a few buttons for the games that weren't, but what can you do?

What you mean is, it's scary to those cowardly unimaginative irrational morons who've never tried or even thought about anything like it. Which is something our educational system should have done more to fix, because it isn't healthy. It would be nice if we could just round these people up into re-education camps and force them to face and overcome their fears before we let them back out into society, rather than having to cripple all our devices to accommodate their fears. But, I guess we can't do that, so you may have a point.

wow I don't even know where to start. Godwin's Law came into effect surprisingly early.

[Diorama]

An Xbox controller, to someone who's never picked it up, is scary

No it isn't, it's much like any other game controller. What you mean is, it's scary to those cowardly unimaginative irrational morons who've never tried or even thought about anything like it. Which is something our educational system should have done more to fix, because it isn't healthy. It would be nice if we could just round these people up into re-education camps and force them to face and overcome their fears before we let them back out into society, rather than having to cripple all our devices to accommodate their fears. But, I guess we can't do that, so you may have a point.

An X-Box 360 controller is a very complex device, and extremely intimidating and difficult-looking to someone who has not used a gamepad (these people exist).

Hell, go back to 1987 even and give a NES owner the 360 controller, they would freak out. They didn't even have shoulder buttons back then. Or take it to an old-folks home. I remember about 10 years ago my dad decided he wanted to play a videogame, and I tried to teach him Timesplitters 2 on PS2. Disaster. He just couldn't get the dual analog walking thing, using two mini thumb-powered joysticks to control position and attitude. He can drive stick-shift, fix a broken radio, ski, but having a 10+ buttoned plastic lump with joysticks poking out of the top was too much.

Of course the Rift is aimed at gamers, and we all have no problem with a 360 controller, but its a pretty mean looking piece of kit. Take it back to 1950 and they'd think it was alien tech.

[jf031]

No it isn't, it's much like any other game controller. What you mean is, it's scary to those cowardly unimaginative irrational morons who've never tried or even thought about anything like it. Which is something our educational system should have done more to fix, because it isn't healthy. It would be nice if we could just round these people up into re-education camps and force them to face and overcome their fears before we let them back out into society, rather than having to cripple all our devices to accommodate their fears. But, I guess we can't do that, so you may have a point.

I'm not going to mention the specifics, but this comment is hilariously hypocritical given the deluge of fear-based (cowardly), ignorant, conspiracy-idiot rants you made a while back about a topic having nothing to do with VR or even electronic entertainment (to those who don't know what I'm talking about, don't go looking for these posts - they were correctly deleted by Neil).

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On topic, I don't really want buttons on my HMD, except maybe one for things like enabling "night vision."

[GeraldT]

there are technophobes and technophiles ... while the first are rarely seen in a forum like this (or even one about knitting), the technophiles reign supreme in the Land of Oculus.

Our family is rather technophile, but my mother is a big technophobe regarding any technology younger than 15-20 years (I think the cd is the most modern thing she uses).
Xbox Controller? Mouse? Keyboard? ... never, she is completely scared of these things.
Wii controller ... she actually had fun using them. The same goes for my iPad, no buttons ...

If you want to create an entry device for phobes and philes alike, then you need to keep it simple with as little buttons and stuff as possible.
But right now they need to aim at the philes ... so give em all the gimmicks they want and dumb it down for the masses later.

[WiredEarp]

Of course the Rift is aimed at gamers, and we all have no problem with a 360 controller, but its a pretty mean looking piece of kit. Take it back to 1950 and they'd think it was alien tech.

Speak for yourself! I grew up with joysticks and thumb joysticks, but I can't use a controller worth a damn. Keyboard, arcade stick, or mouse and keyboard always seems so much better to me, its just too uncomfortable for me to use. Add to that the need to use uncomfortable grips to really use them properly in say fighting games (if you use your thumb, you will NEVER be as good as someone who cradles the controller and uses their fingers on the buttons, due to it being hard with one thumb to press multiple buttons accurately), and the fact that some games in the past didn't let you reverse the sticks (I look with the left hand, move with the right, as im a lefty), and I can totally see why people who are unused to gaming would have serious difficulties.

Something like the Hydra might be more intuitive for new people. Or the simple system used in Virtuality - turn where you want to go and press a button to move forwards. Replace the button with a stick (for strafing purposes) and I think that will be way better to introduce people to VR gaming on.