Should I order or should i not?

[pAnatiC]

Hey Guys!

Long time reader in the darkness.. Have watched every god damn video of the rift.. Some even multiple times.

You know the feeling when it tingles in the fingers?
The head says "dont buy it" and the belly "but it's so good, you will have ton of fun."

Inside, I really want to have the product. Also, the $ 300 are not the problem.
But I have a fear. I buy the product and after 1 or 2 months, the finished product maybe comes to market. Then I say to myself, "I should have waited. Now i 'wasted' 300$"
Maybe it comes in only 9-10 months and I had huge fun with the device and everything would be nice if there is enough support. But I'm also afraid that it still takes a long time to produce good games implementations. Or if they do not work as well as hoped, and you are disappointed.
Sure, Games like TF2 are allready announced, or ProjectCars. But who knows when they actuall release the driver/update? Maybe they will just test it on their own to release it for the customer-version.

Any1 know the shipping cost (and delivery time) to Germany?

I dont have many Xperience in programming, but i have a lot of understanding of Computers, cause I'm working on the support of an IT-Company. So the editing of some files etc. shouldnt be a problem.
I hope the custom drivers will be good enough to have the "whoa"-feeling.

Anyone in the same boat here? Cant decide :/

Hope they arent many mistakes in this text, tried my best

[Pingles]

I bought it because I HAVE to have it.

Yes, I will be doing some developing for it but nothing professional. Just hobby stuff.

But I saw the first Kickstarter video, created a Kickstarter account and bought a unit all within about an hour.

If you think you will have buyers remorse then just wait. You'll get a nice, updated retail unit and chances are you will have a bunch of stuff to play on it.

The drawback: We don't know the retail price. We don't know the retail release date.

[EdZ]

But I have a fear. I buy the product and after 1 or 2 months, the finished product maybe comes to market. Then I say to myself, "I should have waited. Now i 'wasted' 300$"

My recommendation would be: don't buy the devkit. If you're not developing, and not fully aware of the limitations of the development kit (resolution, positional tracking, software support, etc), then there's a good chance you'll be disappointed.

[jaybug]

First off, I would be shocked if the consumer version came out this year. So I wouldn't worry about feeling ripped off that way.

Your worries about content are more appropriate.
You must be willing to get one even if it only works with a couple of games.

The shipping is about $30 I believe, and if you order one now you will probably get it in May.

It's kind of a "If you have to ask, the question is no" deal, but then again you say 300 bucks is no big deal to you, so do what you like. Just be aware of the fact that it's prototype quality, and there is no promise of any kind of game support. (Not even TF2)

[squibbfire]

Well there is the cyber Reality's driver....

[colocolo]

i am sure you could sell it afterwards.
with 30 % loss ??

[Delryn]

First off, I would be shocked if the consumer version came out this year. So I wouldn't worry about feeling ripped off that way.

That depends on the developer feedback. If they don't have many recommendations for the Rift that Oculus LLC don't already know about, then I could see the consumer version in the Fall.

I think I'm in the same boat as the OP. I could probably do somethings in Unity, but no serious development. I mostly want to try out the tech demos, and the third party drivers. Maybe I could help QA VIREIO and VorpX.

[pAnatiC]

I bought it because I HAVE to have it.

Yes, I will be doing some developing for it but nothing professional. Just hobby stuff.

But I saw the first Kickstarter video, created a Kickstarter account and bought a unit all within about an hour.

If you think you will have buyers remorse then just wait. You'll get a nice, updated retail unit and chances are you will have a bunch of stuff to play on it.

The drawback: We don't know the retail price. We don't know the retail release date.

Thats what i thought. The Videos were soo cool. Many people were just shocked, amazing to see.
Yes, we dont know the price and release date. But thats my biggest concern..

But I have a fear. I buy the product and after 1 or 2 months, the finished product maybe comes to market. Then I say to myself, "I should have waited. Now i 'wasted' 300$"

My recommendation would be: don't buy the devkit. If you're not developing, and not fully aware of the limitations of the development kit (resolution, positional tracking, software support, etc), then there's a good chance you'll be disappointed.

i guess the positional tracking isnt that big of a deal. It should be enough to play pCars/Doom etc. Ya, it would be nice to actually lean over something,... The resolution wasnt mentioned many times in those videos, it has enough "iam inside the game"-feeling. And it doenst take that much hardware to actuall run it i guess

First off, I would be shocked if the consumer version came out this year. So I wouldn't worry about feeling ripped off that way.

Your worries about content are more appropriate.
You must be willing to get one even if it only works with a couple of games.

The shipping is about $30 I believe, and if you order one now you will probably get it in May.

It's kind of a "If you have to ask, the question is no" deal, but then again you say 300 bucks is no big deal to you, so do what you like. Just be aware of the fact that it's prototype quality, and there is no promise of any kind of game support. (Not even TF2)

Ya, if i would be sure that the consumer wont come out this year and i have some games to play with, everything would be fine
Really hoping for cyber reality driver there..
30$ is fine.. May is already far far in the future..

Well there is the cyber Reality's driver....

*there is still hope*

i am sure you could sell it afterwards.
with 30 % loss ??

I hope so

[ElMatarife]

i am sure you could sell it afterwards.
with 30 % loss ??

You know, I've thought about this part a lot and what I realized is that the dev kit might be a great collectors item one day if Oculus takes off. There's only going to be ~10,000 made so it will be relatively scare. On the other hand, I could be totally wrong. The 3dfx Voodoo sells for < $30 on eBay I think, even though it was the first popular consumer level 3D card. I can't even find any nVidia NV1 based cards for sale.

[GeraldT]

- do you expect a ton of great games for it now?
- do you expect for it to work right out of the box?
- are you willing to play around with it before you get it to work?

NNY => order one, else don't

They are massproducing the thing now, so I doubt that there will be a problem with devs getting one.
I see it more as the "early-adopter" version. Sure the next version will be better, but following that logic I can wait forever on almost everything.

If you can spend the 300$ and love to toy around with VR, then get one. Sure you will (as I guess all of us) switch to the consumer version when it comes out, but until then you get a lot of months worth of playing with what you otherwise just read about here.

I for one plan to give player access to my title right from the moment I implemented the Oculus support in Unity. So I am happy for early testers.

[KBK]

That if you have today's dev kit and then buy the first commercial release unit, then you can at the least, share a lan game or two with a friend, who gets to appreciate the feel and space, along with you.

Now that... is a big thing, to me. That you can also lend out your spare 'early edition' VR bible.

[pAnatiC]

- do you expect a ton of great games for it now?
- do you expect for it to work right out of the box?
- are you willing to play around with it before you get it to work?

NNY => order one, else don't

They are massproducing the thing now, so I doubt that there will be a problem with devs getting one.
I see it more as the "early-adopter" version. Sure the next version will be better, but following that logic I can wait forever on almost everything.

If you can spend the 300$ and love to toy around with VR, then get one. Sure you will (as I guess all of us) switch to the consumer version when it comes out, but until then you get a lot of months worth of playing with what you otherwise just read about here.

I for one plan to give player access to my title right from the moment I implemented the Oculus support in Unity. So I am happy for early testers.

NNY

That if you have today's dev kit and then buy the first commercial release unit, then you can at the least, share a lan game or two with a friend, who gets to appreciate the feel and space, along with you.

Now that... is a big thing, to me. That you can also lend out your spare 'early edition' VR bible.

Thats a really good point! Anyone know If its compatible to use 2 Oculus at the same time on one pc? That would be really cool

[oculusfan]

You should wait unless you are a hardcore enthusiest. For some of us, its worth $300 to run around in a few tech demos, play around in Unity/UDK, test drivers and projects from the community, etc. That is pretty much all you will be able to do with the dev kit.

[Pingles]

First off, I would be shocked if the consumer version came out this year. So I wouldn't worry about feeling ripped off that way.

That depends on the developer feedback. If they don't have many recommendations for the Rift that Oculus LLC don't already know about, then I could see the consumer version in the Fall.

In the last Kickstarter update they say

When we extended the ship date to change the display, we wanted to take advantage of the expanded schedule. Because we couldn’t make any drastic design changes, we decided to pursue two small features we hoped would improve the kits for everyone.

Notice they say that they couldn't make any drastic changes. It left me wondering if they DO have ideas that would be significant design changes.

They couldn't squeeze them in on this production run but I am guessing that they CAN do some pretty radical changes to the retail device.

In other words, they may have some BIG changes coming. Changes that might need significant testing.

So either they are happy with this run and will release it quickly or they might decide on some big changes and it could be significantly delayed.

All speculation but I am leaning towards a much, much later launch.

[ElMatarife]

Thats a really good point! Anyone know If its compatible to use 2 Oculus at the same time on one pc? That would be really cool

DisplayPort DOES actually support daisy chaining displays, I've just never seen it done. (I think it's on the Apple displays though.)

You'd have to have in-game support for multiple monitors, keyboards, and mice plus supporting the two Rifts. On the other hand, it'd be pretty damn cool to setup a "gaming station" for 2+ player use.

[GeraldT]

Having the old one just for friends is a great point KBK!

@pan you should forget that - it would have been an option for years to implement it for multiplayer gaming on one pc. never happened. there might be a console with a dual output for these - but pc gaming has always been 1 pc per gamer (and I don't see that changing in the near future).

@oculusfan: doom 3, that mech game, certainly quite a bit coming from the devs that ordered one (I hope there are enough of them out there), old games being adapted ... if you stay realistic there is no reason to be disappointed.
With just 10k sets so far I am looking forward to every single unit sold before the consumer launch. I want to do multiplayer stuff at some point and I do remember how hard that was on the XNA forums, I can only imagine how hard it will be with the Oculus!

[KBK]

Notice they say that they couldn't make any drastic changes. It left me wondering if they DO have ideas that would be significant design changes.

They couldn't squeeze them in on this production run but I am guessing that they CAN do some pretty radical changes to the retail device.

In other words, they may have some BIG changes coming. Changes that might need significant testing.

So either they are happy with this run and will release it quickly or they might decide on some big changes and it could be significantly delayed.

All speculation but I am leaning towards a much, much later launch.

This is why I'm making sure that I'm in on the DEV kit. Early or late launch, TBD....eh...$300 is a minor expense for the value it brings.

Besides, I'm a guy who tweaks finished systems to new levels. That's my job, at least part of it.

[GeraldT]

The Rift "KBK optimized edition" ... where can one order these?

[KBK]

The Rift "KBK optimized edition" ... where can one order these?

If I was to ever do such a thing, I'd prefer to do it directly with Oculus... and if that be the case, you'd probably never know about it.

At the very least, I'll strip down and analyze my Dev kit... and rebuild it for myself. To see what it can do and what can be done to tweak it. As they say on old American TV adverts, 'there's always room for jello'.

[bobv5]

If you have $300 in your toy budget, and can't think of a better toy, buy it.

If you don't have a toy budget, re-evaluate your life. Everybody likes toys. But sometimes they get old and think that they shouldn't, so have to justify it to themselves.

[2EyeGuy]

Oculus won't say when the consumer version is coming out, because they will wait until they get developer feedback, until there are enough games for it, until they have added the new features they want, until they have manufactured it, and until they have prepared the market. So I'm guessing it won't come out before January 2014. It will probably have a similar price tag.

So if you can afford $300 this year, and $300 next year, you should get one. That's "should" in the sense of what's best for you. I don't know if Oculus can make more dev kits if more developers need them, so I don't know if you would be preventing a developer from being able to get one.

I think there will be a surprisingly large amount of software for the Rift dev kit, including commercial drivers like VorpX. So as long as you know it can't be used for every game like a normal monitor, I think you will be able to use it. And when they talk about there not being games for it, they just mean for a few months. The same games that will be available for the consumer Rift will work on the Dev Kit, it's just a matter of time to develop them.

And developing games isn't what it used to be. Now you have tools like UDK and Unity that make it more like modding.

The resolution is a bit low, and the head-tracking can only measure rotation, not position. And it's a little bit bulky. And it can make you motion sick. It requires HDMI or DVI, and only works on Windows. You need a good graphics card. And it's not thoroughly tested. But if you're OK with those things, then it should be fine. For a dev kit, this is very professional.

If you're rich enough, I think you'd like the dev kit.

You probably can't use two on the one computer. It has to render at 640x800 (or possibly more) at 120Hz for each rift. The tracker also uses up most of the USB bus it's plugged into, because it runs at 1000Hz. So you wouldn't get good enough performance. And the SDK probably assumes there is only one. I think if you want two players, you'll need two computers.

[squibbfire]

Oculus won't say when the consumer version is coming out, because they will wait until they get developer feedback, until there are enough games for it, until they have added the new features they want, until they have manufactured it, and until they have prepared the market. So I'm guessing it won't come out before January 2014. It will probably have a similar price tag.

So if you can afford $300 t

I agree 2eyeguy...I can afford one but I might wait till March-ish...I would be devastated to be the guy who prevented Bethesda from getting a Oculus dev kit...Unless someone can verify that they ordered some already:)...I'm in no hurry at the moment though.

[KBK]

It's a fairly safe bet that all the software that is coming for the commercial version, will work with the dev kit.

It's pretty dang obvious, as this is the entire point of the dev kit, but someone might miss that....so I say it out loud. (whoops, someone said that already)

The other obvious point, is that deliveries will dramatically speed up, regarding back orders, after the Chinese holiday.

After a one month holiday, I'm sure that they will feel the same way we do on our first day back: "not this crap again..."

[bobv5]

If Bethesda want a dev kit, they will get one. Even if they have to buy it on ebay.

[GeraldT]

Waiting to prevent a dev ... that is just inverse logic! Right now is the time to order then. The production-line is still active and the parts available.

In the future this might change, and there might be a run on them once for example the screen is no longer available. Then they have to decide on how to handle that.

Right now their world should be shiny. And when Palmer says consumers should wait, then I am pretty sure he does not mean you! Because the average consumer usually does not end up on MTBS.

That is at least my guess. If Oculus does need to ration it for developers, I hope they will say so.

[KBK]

Found some information on what I suspect the replacement panel is, and the contrast ratio is 'agreeable'.

[3dRat]

I will order it and will not selling it by any concept!! this will be part of the history of VR!!!!

a developer rift model is like if you have a developer limited edition card from 3dfx back in the 90's !!! can you understand!??

[GeraldT]

Do you really want to start a discussion on this without even telling what you think you found out?

[KBK]

Apparently, I thought I'd be irritating, and say nothing. I'm not going to play with their thunder as it is their thunder, not mine...

They said it themselves, that panels of this size area are very thin on the ground. That this size panel market is only now opening up.

[pAnatiC]

What do you guys think will be the total cost for shipping, taxes - just everything to germany?

[virror]

The tracker also uses up most of the USB bus it's plugged into, because it runs at 1000Hz. So you wouldn't get good enough performance. And the SDK probably assumes there is only one. I think if you want two players, you'll need two computers.

I have a hard time believing this is true, 1000Hz is not a lot at all on the USB bus since it can send loads more data that. Correct me if im wrong here but considering every DOF value takes 4 bytes that's still only 36kb/s?

[MSat]

The tracker also uses up most of the USB bus it's plugged into, because it runs at 1000Hz. So you wouldn't get good enough performance. And the SDK probably assumes there is only one. I think if you want two players, you'll need two computers.

I have a hard time believing this is true, 1000Hz is not a lot at all on the USB bus since it can send loads more data that. Correct me if im wrong here but considering every DOF value takes 4 bytes that's still only 36kb/s?

Over USB directly, I'm currently getting a little over a 500Hz data rate, which is probably sufficient for not having to worry about timing vs the game loop, but is still short of the 760Hz maximum of the gyro and the 1000Hz theoretical max for USB interrupts.

From thread http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... =15#p79593

I'm guessing that number of interrupts saturates all ports connected through a USB bridge.

[virror]

Sure, but still find it a bit fishy : p Maybe it also depends on the hardware used.

[MSat]

Sure, but still find it a bit fishy : p Maybe it also depends on the hardware used.

Ok, so I read a little bit about the USB spec.. The 1000Hz limit stems from the fact that a device operating in "Full speed" mode configured for interrupt transfer can be polled at a max rate of once per millisecond. So, yeah, this shouldn't saturate the bus even if it's connected to a USB hub, and since every device is enumerated separately and the driver loaded for each device, in theory you could have multiple trackers attached and not have a problem. The burden would be placed on the software to appropriately handle each device. So it is technically possible.

[virror]

Great, thanx for checking that up : )

[LNQ]

To give another point of view, I could swing the $300 + additional costs easily and I'm awaiting this revolution of VR like the second coming, but I'm not going to get the dev kit as I don't want the "beta effect" to spoil my first impression. You know, the problem that you've beta tested a game to death, experienced tons of bugs and iterations of the game, causing you to enjoy the final game much less.

I want my Oculus experience to be intact and polished when I put the goggles on. If I get an opportunity to test a dev kit for a few minutes, sure I'll do it. But I will probably not get one myself.

[przecinek]

What do you guys think will be the total cost for shipping, taxes - just everything to germany?

Just to let you know. Shipping costs are $100 ($99 to be exact) so you won't be spending $300 but $400.
There has been discussion about taxes. In short : who knows. Maybe you won't have to pay anything, maybe you'll have to pay a lot.

If you have remorse or second thoughts ... I guess you should wait. I like many others have not even thought for split second if I should buy it or not, I would simply die of envy when having to watch all those videos of people with DEV kits praising Oculus.

[Diorama]

Went to order a Rift in mid January.
Card was declined for some reason. Turned out my bank's auto-fraud system was suspicious of a sudden $352 transaction in the US.

I took it as a sign. To wait.

I almost made it 3 weeks

Just ordered mine. The order number though......IT'S OVER 45000

Might get mine by 2014

[mscoder610]

The new order #s didn't start at 0 - probably a better guess of where you are in line is 7000 + (order# - 40000). (The formula is unconfirmed, of course)
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... =15#p92621

[Kerry]

Yeah from what I've seen, it started at 40000, I'm order 45025 and ordered last week Wed.