Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

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Delryn
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Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

I read this not-so-glowing preview of the Rift: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1848 ... v_kits.php

My questions:
- Why can't we have cinematics/cut scenes with head tracking disabled?
- How badly does artificial head-bob affect the user?

I'm not looking forward to the game completely surrendering camera control to the user.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by KBK »

I read that the other day and I don't see it as negative. Rather, as covering the issues at hand and repeating, clearly, that it is a dev kit.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

KBK wrote:I read that the other day and I don't see it as negative. Rather, as covering the issues at hand and repeating, clearly, that it is a dev kit.
Maybe. I just think it didn't seem as positive as the CES video previews. Lets go with more "realistic". But I wanted to address the concept of scripted camera control and the Rift.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Mystify »

I think its been fairly well established that scripted camera control is bad for VR. The camera needs to be doing what you tell it to, and not anything else.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Fredz »

I don't know how cut scenes do work in general, but I think allowing head tracking won't necessarily be a problem. It would be just like VR rides where you don't have control over movement, but you can still look where you want. For that the cut scenes would need to contain more geometry than the one that is displayed, ie. outside the current FOV.

Head bobbing seems a bigger problem, which I guess will be present only when using 3D stereo drivers. If a way can be found to feed orientation/position through memory hacking, I guess it could also be possible to disable head bobbing, although probably difficult.
Last edited by Fredz on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

Mystify wrote:I think its been fairly well established that scripted camera control is bad for VR. The camera needs to be doing what you tell it to, and not anything else.
I've never experienced it, so I'm wondering why it's such a problem. Especially for a cutscene where it's obvious that you should not have control. And I'm talking cutscene like a pre-rendered cutscene, or an out-of-body ingame cutscene.

Also I'm worried that no head-bob type stuff will break immersion. I don't want to be ethereally gliding around my environment.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by greenknight »

Delryn wrote:
Mystify wrote:I think its been fairly well established that scripted camera control is bad for VR. The camera needs to be doing what you tell it to, and not anything else.
I've never experienced it, so I'm wondering why it's such a problem. Especially for a cutscene where it's obvious that you should not have control. And I'm talking cutscene like a pre-rendered cutscene, or an out-of-body ingame cutscene.

Also I'm worried that no head-bob type stuff will break immersion. I don't want to be ethereally gliding around my environment.
Hmm, what about a cutscene where it's like you are on a railroad track, but you can move your head around? That seems intuitively fine to me, but I dunno. Never tried anything like the rift.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Mystify »

Imagine you are walking along,and suddenly you are seeing entirely different things. It would be jarring and very disruptive to the immersion. And I would not be surprised if it could be motion sickness inducing. Even if the overall experience is acceptable, it would probably be a bad choice for a game based around immersion. You shouldn't be breaking the player free of their body in VR.
I would say that this is a general rule, not a hard one. I can think of cases where it could work out ok, but it would need to be considered on case by case basis, and executed with it in mind.
Modern games do it a lot, and you probably don't even realize it most of the time. Looking at a monitor, it is not a big deal, but in VR, anytime the camera does anything different will be very noticeable, and is very likely to detract from the experience.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by BOLL »

I don't think the lack of headbobbing will be very strange. I usually turn it off in normal shooters too, because I find it distracting :P In a VR game where you don't physically walk in place, the head bobbing would not be synced with your head, which doesn't seem like a good idea. Instead just listen to the footsteps :) good audio should work well enough I think.

As for cutscenes, I think they cuold work as long as they are transitioned into by a fading screen, and making very clear that you will not be in control of the camera. I myself would prefer to have camera control even in a cutscene, but they could place the camera strategically for each scene, then again with a fade-to-black transition between positions.

For micro-cutscenes during gameplay, that is something I want to get rid of completely :P It beaks immersion even when playing on a 2D-monitor, when the camera is jerked from your control to show whatever the designers want to show off. Oh, this article comes to mind, hahaha.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Libertine »

Im feel that user's tolerance levels to uncontrolled movement will be much greater over time and that users will eventually develop a mental "muscle memory" type of reaction to uncontrolled movement wherein you have learned to protect yourself mentally, so to say, from the scenery. I think it involves semi-detatching yourself from the scenery, similar to what i feel happens when I make large adjustments to convergence, or perhaps, focusing on your head and neck being still, while imagining the screen being just what it is, a screen, that you don't have to be influenced by if you can choose not to be.

Perhaps one tactic for new users encountering motion-sickness in a cutscene might be to lift the Rift slightly away from the eyes so the border or outside world can be seen and your brain can get some perspective. Im fairly convinced people can build a least a partial tolerance to 3D by watching cross-eye 3D videos/pictures on youtube, perhaps an uncontrolled motion simulator could slowly [and comfortably] help build tolerance.

I don't know, but what i do know is i have very little desire for a Rift without support from games types which have cutscenes (Mass Effect, Metro 2033). I don't see most scripted scenes being a problem as most of them are still and don't mimic a person looking around. The transition point where you must recenter your head after having been looking to the side seems like the main problem area.
Looking at a monitor, it is not a big deal, but in VR, anytime the camera does anything different will be very noticeable, and is very likely to detract from the experience.
Detract from what experience? I already must cope with repairing vehicles with torches and dodging a glut of enemy snipers who used a 60 million dollar jet as a disposable taxi cab to get to their positions [for the 6th+ time], or ignore the fact that my footsteps aren't matching my headbob, or ignore the many unrealistic human emotional reactions or decisions, or ignore the fact the the helicopter just accelerated like a jet or the jet turned on a dime, ETCx10000. Whats another small thing to ignore? I don't see the issue. They say the happiest movie watchers fill in the plot holes themselves and i think the happiest immersive gamers must actively ignore/fill-in the details to get the most out of the experience and i think that applies here as well.
Last edited by Libertine on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by oculusfan »

Delryn wrote:
Mystify wrote:I think its been fairly well established that scripted camera control is bad for VR. The camera needs to be doing what you tell it to, and not anything else.
I've never experienced it, so I'm wondering why it's such a problem. Especially for a cutscene where it's obvious that you should not have control. And I'm talking cutscene like a pre-rendered cutscene, or an out-of-body ingame cutscene.

Also I'm worried that no head-bob type stuff will break immersion. I don't want to be ethereally gliding around my environment.
I don't see why you shouldn't have control during a cutscene. Kind of like the opening segment of Portal 2. That is pretty much one big cutscene, but you can move about and look where you want. I think all cutscenes need to do this and allow you to input your own head movement.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

oculusfan wrote: I don't see why you shouldn't have control during a cutscene. Kind of like the opening segment of Portal 2. That is pretty much one big cutscene, but you can move about and look where you want. I think all cutscenes need to do this and allow you to input your own head movement.
Some game designers want to give you a very specific experience. It made the first Modern Warfare a great single player experience. It has kind of been over done since then, however.
I don't know, but what i do know is i have very little desire for a Rift without support from games which have cutscenes (Mass Effect, Metro 2033). I don't see most scripted scenes being a problem as most of them are still and don't mimic a person looking around. The transition point where you must recenter your head after having been looking to the side seems like the main problem area.
I agree with this. Again, I haven't experienced the rift, but I feel like I would be comfortable with a gradual transition to a lower FOV indicating a cutscene.

Remember kids, the Rift is supposed to expand the capabilities of gaming, not limit them. And I don't accept the compromise of losing some established practices in favor of new ones. I want to experience everything, preferably with the Rift.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Libertine »

oculusfan wrote:I don't see why you shouldn't have control during a cutscene. Kind of like the opening segment of Portal 2. That is pretty much one big cutscene, but you can move about and look where you want. I think all cutscenes need to do this and allow you to input your own head movement.
Maybe to an extent having a little input applied to the camera during cutscenes would be interesting and enhance immersion, but i wouldn't do more than capture small head tweaks and adjustments because often the entire point of cutscenes is to direct your attention.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by oculusfan »

Libertine wrote:
oculusfan wrote:I don't see why you shouldn't have control during a cutscene. Kind of like the opening segment of Portal 2. That is pretty much one big cutscene, but you can move about and look where you want. I think all cutscenes need to do this and allow you to input your own head movement.
Maybe to an extent having a little input applied to the camera during cutscenes would be interesting and enhance immersion, but i wouldn't do more than capture small head tweaks and adjustments because often the entire point of cutscenes is to direct your attention.
It could come down to a choice between head controlled cutscenes or no cutscenes at all. Palmer and Nate have already stated lots of times that a camera overriding your head movement is a motion sickness concern. If that is the case, I'm fine with head controlled cutscenes and the developers will just have to do a good job drawing your attention to the action.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by PalmerTech »

More research needs to be done on head bob before we can say what the effects are.

What I can tell you, though, is that cutscenes have to be done very carefully. It can be fine if you keep your head perfectly still during the cutscene as long as the camera movements are not too crazy, but as soon as you tilt your head, your brain starts getting some pretty panicky signals from your vestibular response! The best way to convert pre-existing cutscenes might be to detach them from the view of the player, similar to the VR Theater ideas people have been throwing around. That way, it is clear that the cutscene is a video floating in space, but any small incidental movements won't make you feel ill.

It will take a lot of help from the community to figure out the best way to handle this, I don't have all the answers! :lol:
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by PasticheDonkey »

i was thinking you still apply head tracking on top of the directed camera switching and movement. so everyone isn't seeing the exact same thing but only as much as a tv isn't exactly in the same position for everyone. most people will keep their heads "still" during the cutscenes anyway and you could have easter eggs based on looking in some strange direction during a shot at some point. think of the cutscene as a ride with spawning to different parts of it.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by bubimude »

Being an animator, I've been very interested in the "virtual theater" idea. I think a nice compromise between full range of motion and locked off motion, would be to allow a certain amount of head tilt, so the gamer can relax and feel like he's not locked into one position, but as he turns away the tracking becomes less and less responsive... which will feel strange at first but I think people will quickly realize they can just relax and watch the show, with their own slight head movements being added for realism.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by rhinosix »

I have no idea about handling cut scenes from current games.

But I think cut-scenes make for pretty lazy storytelling. Especially the kind where two characters are standing in front of each other reading off lines of dialogue. I think story should be integrated into the structure of the visual/ game world.

You can tell the story through physical action in the game. Dialogue can happen while action is taking place. And you should let the player discover things for themselves by finding journals, radio transmissions, etc.

There are lots of creative solutions for doing away with cut-scenes.

When you need to transition between locations you can use some kind of smooth transition or effect.

Trees and buildings could descend into the ground, textures change, and the new location pops up. Have the rock they're standing on rise out of the ground and become a mountain, and snow begin to fall as set pieces fall into place. Or you could have the player go into a basic 3D environment (like in Assassin's Creed) while the new location loads in the background. A Star Wars wipe transition might work.

Or you could have the player's view obscured while the scene changes in the background. It might be fun to try to do things like have a character give the player a letter to read, and when they put the letter down they're in a new location. Or have them hide in a basket/ crate/ shipping container. They hear movement from outside, and when they emerge they're somewhere else.

If you need to have the player watch two characters talk, just force them to hide in a cupboard, vent, or be stuck in a room.

If you need the player to be looking somewhere to see some action, have a piece of audio grab their attention. Or you can make actions activate when the player looks in the correct direction.

The player is almost always going to be wearing headphones so you can give the character an ear-piece, or a blue tooth headset, and receive calls in their ear while they're in gameplay.

Cut-scenes were really only necessary in the PlayStation 1 era where pre-rendered movies could show a lot more detail than the regular game graphics. If you watch how a lot of people play games (especially kids) they will hit the button and skip "boring" cut-scenes to get back to the action.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by PasticheDonkey »

there shouldn't be "doing away with cutscenes" but there should be expansion into other methods of story telling. so some games use cutscenes, some keep it in the games normal view.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

rhinosix wrote:You can tell the story through physical action in the game. Dialogue can happen while action is taking place. And you should let the player discover things for themselves by finding journals, radio transmissions, etc.

There are lots of creative solutions for doing away with cut-scenes.

Cut-scenes were really only necessary in the PlayStation 1 era where pre-rendered movies could show a lot more detail than the regular game graphics. If you watch how a lot of people play games (especially kids) they will hit the button and skip "boring" cut-scenes to get back to the action.
I don't know about you, but I loved Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect. Their stories are some of the best video gaming has to offer. Or The Walking Dead from TellTale? Absolutely fantastic.

Some games do not have cutscenes, like most of the Half Life series. But I don't want every game to be like Half Life. I want game creators to do whatever the hell they want.

PasticheDonkey wrote:there shouldn't be "doing away with cutscenes" but there should be expansion into other methods of story telling. so some games use cutscenes, some keep it in the games normal view.
This!
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by drifter »

This subject has already been discussed here :
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15444
Delryn wrote:Remember kids, the Rift is supposed to expand the capabilities of gaming, not limit them. And I don't accept the compromise of losing some established practices in favor of new ones. I want to experience everything, preferably with the Rift.
Nope my dear child, the Rift is not supposed "to expand the capabilities of gaming" (except if you add some motion controllers, or haptic devices, of course).
It's all about immersion, and sometimes for the good sake of immersion, you will have to make sacrifices (no interface, no hud, no pre-rendered cutscenes, etc...).
But don't worry, it will worth it ! ;)
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Owen »

I think that game devs will need to accept that cinema style camera work is anathema to VR. Current cut scenes are almost always modeled after film, which is a third person experience built around the metaphor of looking through a window into another world. VR is as different from that as it is from reading a book. Its a different medium entirely, built around a sense of physical presence within another world.

Anything that breaks this metaphor is at best disruptive and more likely nauseating. If you treat the HMD like its just a big TV strapped to your head then people are going to prefer the more comfortable viewing distance of a conventional monitor, where then can turn their heads freely without feeling like that guy in A Clockwork Orange.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

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.
haaa your badly executed VR make me sick ! ! !
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Mystify »

Owen wrote:I think that game devs will need to accept that cinema style camera work is anathema to VR. Current cut scenes are almost always modeled after film, which is a third person experience built around the metaphor of looking through a window into another world. VR is as different from that as it is from reading a book. Its a different medium entirely, built around a sense of physical presence within another world.

Anything that breaks this metaphor is at best disruptive and more likely nauseating. If you treat the HMD like its just a big TV strapped to your head then people are going to prefer the more comfortable viewing distance of a conventional monitor, where then can turn their heads freely without feeling like that guy in A Clockwork Orange.
Exactly. It is effectively a new medium, and if you just try to copy what the old medium did, you aren't going to get great results. Do current games use cutscenes? yes, of course. Is that the best approach for VR? I highly doubt it. An approach fundamentally based on watching something is not the right approach for a medium based around being there. This isn't so much a matter of "Game designers should be able to do whatever they want to create the experience they desire" as "Using this approach is going to produce poor results, and hence it is a bad decision for game designers to use it". This is true of every medium. They have their own strengths and weaknesses, and you have to design your content with that in mind. Yes, the rift contains screens, but thinking of it as just a monitor with a lot of FOV and head tracking is wrong, and using tactics designed for a screen are the wrong way to do the design.
Look at the difference between theater and film. They are like a monitor vs. the rift. They are very similar, both being about people dressing up in costumes, standing in a scene, and acting out a story. Both utilize actors and directors, both have scripts, and there are many places where they are similar. But they are also fundamentally a different medium, and there are enormous lists of things that work in movies but not on stage, or visa versa.
We are in the early days of VR, and a lot of what we do now will be based on our current expectations of games. However, we need to move past that and embrace the strengths of VR, not simply drag every element of games we are used to along for the ride. Not every game will need to be VR, just as not every show needs to be a movie. There is still a place for theater alongside film.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by cybereality »

I think Half-Life did it best. It almost never took the camera out of your control, and allowed you to freely look around and explore while scripted scenes took place. That is probably the best way to do it for VR.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by cerulianbaloo »

Touching on what cyber said, for the reasons he listed, I believe if there's going to be one killer AAA app for the Rift it will most likely first come from Valve, what with their dabblings in VR/AR as of late. They're a company that knows the essence of proper immersion, and having that continual control of camera movement is essential towards shaping the best vr experience possible.

My personal dream would be for them to do a more original HL return to form, more claustrophobic corridors, expertly-scripted events you bear witness to, more horror, and everything drenched in atmosphere and superb sound design. I can only hope.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by PasticheDonkey »

why limit the idea of what VR is. your arguments are circular you define VR then define VR games based on your definition of VR. many state things just wont work a priori.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

PalmerTech wrote:More research needs to be done on head bob before we can say what the effects are.

What I can tell you, though, is that cutscenes have to be done very carefully. It can be fine if you keep your head perfectly still during the cutscene as long as the camera movements are not too crazy, but as soon as you tilt your head, your brain starts getting some pretty panicky signals from your vestibular response! The best way to convert pre-existing cutscenes might be to detach them from the view of the player, similar to the VR Theater ideas people have been throwing around. That way, it is clear that the cutscene is a video floating in space, but any small incidental movements won't make you feel ill.

It will take a lot of help from the community to figure out the best way to handle this, I don't have all the answers! :lol:
*groan*, I completely missed this post because it was at the end of the first page.

I do hope that head bob can be utilized with the rift some how. Bobbing while walking, and being knocked around by explosions adds a lot to my experience in a game. It's good feedback.


About cutscenes, a VR theater has the problem of grabbing the user's attention in a gentle/intuitive way, and pulling the user to where the cutscene screen is. But that would be a passable solution at best. I don't know, it requires experimentation to be sure.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by cerulianbaloo »

Delryn wrote: I do hope that head bob can be utilized with the rift some how. Bobbing while walking, and being knocked around by explosions adds a lot to my experience in a game. It's good feedback.
I agree its good feedback for a non-VR game, something like Arma (even though I do want Rift support for this due to the independent head-turn for looking), but how can you know it's good feedback unless you've tried it yourself? If anything I would think it would cause more motion sickness due to a camera jerking your view around without your actual head complementing those movements, thus confusing the heck out of your vestibular response as Palmer mentioned. I think head bobbing is best left out, getting positional tracking and a good walking solution like the wizdish would be much better.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by bubimude »

I think it's super exciting to think of this new way of telling stories. Think of a movie like "Chronicle" which made the viewers feel that everything was footage from either camcorder or a security cam etc… Stories can be told in different ways from different perspectives. We just have to experiment and see what new storytelling "rules" will be created. Maybe we're jumping from shot to shot quickly, but the camera is never moving... we can simply look around. Maybe whenever we do animate the camera, we need to be following something that allows us to predict the movement and not get sick. Cutscenes could feel sort of like a dream, where the scene keeps changing around you and you're witnessing different moments in time. We can all agree that how we approach cutscenes will change, but I'd say it's definitely too early to say there is no place for preconceived storytelling in a VR environment.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by PasticheDonkey »

Delryn wrote:
PalmerTech wrote: About cutscenes, a VR theater has the problem of grabbing the user's attention in a gentle/intuitive way, and pulling the user to where the cutscene screen is. But that would be a passable solution at best. I don't know, it requires experimentation to be sure.
i think vr theater for cutscenes would only be for prerendered ones, which don't really need to be done now. no matter the screen complexity you could stream in a z buffer instead. it could be useful for porting old games tho.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Diorama »

Asking for head bob and classic-style cut scenes on the Oculus Rift is like buying a Model T in 1908 and asking Henry Ford "Where do I attach the horse?"
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by STRZ »

Scenes where body movement is frozen and only headtracking works would be funny. Imagine a intro of a game, you sitting in a huge virtual cinema with good ambient, NPC's reacting to what happens on the screen, whistling, loughing etc. And then suddenly creatures pop from the screen into the virtual cinema causing panic, grabbing you and pulling you into the film, similar to the ring. This has to be mind blowing if you don't expect this..
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

Diorama wrote:Asking for head bob and classic-style cut scenes on the Oculus Rift is like buying a Model T in 1908 and asking Henry Ford "Where do I attach the horse?"
It's really not.

In the past when you moved your character you glided around like a ghost. Then head bob was added so that you wouldn't glide ethereally. Now with the Rift we have to go back to gliding around? That's a step backward.

If we can't have cutscenes we then lose out on the ability to see anything that's happening away from the character, and we are limited to what a person can see. We can switch characters, but we still won't get as many shots of space ships wizzing by, aerial views of explosions, seeing what other characters are up to without becoming the character. That also seems like a step backward.

Yes there will be new things we can do, but it sounds like it'll be at the cost of established game mechanics that only help the game. Head bob and cinematics do not hold games back. Even Half Life has cutscenes at the beginning and end of each game. And more than once it takes control of the camera in the middle of the game.

So it's more like saying, what do you mean you want a stick shift in our automatic cars? Stick shifts are an older invention, but they still offer a certain driving experience that automatics can't deliver.

This is why I'm interested in seeing if the Rift really can't do these things.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Diorama »

I understand what you are saying, I remember the odd 'gliding ghost' effect of games like Wolfenstein 3D, and how much more immersive it was when the head bob was added to later FPS games.

I just don't think that head bob on a VR HMD will be the same immersive feature it is on a flat screen. Think about the last time you walked somewhere, like the bathroom, or maybe to the fridge. Do you remember the head-bob effect? Maybe my brain cancels it out or something, but I honestly can't tell you that my natural head-bob is that consciously noticeable when I walk around. What will be noticeable, I think, is if my view were bopping and my actual head wasn't.

One of the key things about achieving 'immersion' with the Rift has been accurate head tracking, so that your head movements track perfectly to the view through the goggles. I worry that an artificial 'bob' to the camera might hurt that immersion.

Of course, I havn't tried a Rift. I could be totally wrong.

But VR/the Oculus needs to be thought of as a whole different design philosophy, rather than just a 'new kind of screen'
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by moralis »

I think controlled cutscenes are a necessary evil in order to advance the story the way a writer wants it to move.
Rendering a cutscene in a 3D environment and then giving the player full control to move around is a bad idea because what if the player choose to leave the room where the main conversation is taking place?

A story is basically a single perspective in a given time and space. Reality is an infinite amount of stories happening simultaneously. A cutscene's job is to tell a story. A player can only be at one place at a time. Therefore it stands that control has to be taken away from the player for a cutscene. If a player is telling the story, he's basically playing the game already.

What I would suggest is that in a VR environment, the cutscene is rendered on a 2D rectangular plane floating in front of the player's view like a sort of virtual cinema screen. The player's physical position is located a fixed distant away from the screen and this position won't change. Headtracking will then control the player's view perspective from that fixed position. The player will see the screen if he looks directly in front. He will see complete darkness if he looks 90 degrees to the left or right. It's sort of like watching a virtual cinema.

The transition from cutscene to game environment can be a very cliched slow movement towards the screen, accelerating as it goes along. The player will see the virtual cinema screen grow bigger and bigger, eventually enveloping his whole view. Then there can be quick display black out and when the display reappears, the player is now inside the scene he was just watching a couple of seconds ago.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by MSat »

While I agree that typical cutscenes are a very poor method of storytelling for VR, not to mention the possibility of them inducing nausea, but the reality we're going to have to face for quite some time is that games are not going to be designed specifically for VR. They'll be ported and perhaps tweaked a little bit to get it working, but a game that is primarily designed for a 2D screen is not going to be designed it in a way that is most suitable for VR. So the question is, what is the best way to make them work so that at the very least they don't make you sick? Keeping head tracking enabled is likely a must, but for cutscenes intended to be cinematic, then Palmer's idea to make it sort of like a virtual theatre sounds like a pretty solid idea. Yeah, it takes away from what VR is actually good at, but is there really any other option when VR support is just an added feature, rather than a core aspect of the game?
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by drifter »

Diorama wrote:I remember the odd 'gliding ghost' effect of games like Wolfenstein 3D, and how much more immersive it was when the head bob was added to later FPS games.
Doom 1 brought the head bob, I remember these days, a lot of people got sick even playing on a little 14" screen :)
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Delryn »

MSat wrote:While I agree that typical cutscenes are a very poor method of storytelling for VR, not to mention the possibility of them inducing nausea, but the reality we're going to have to face for quite some time is that games are not going to be designed specifically for VR.
This is a strong point. Even if it doesn't fit to VR, I think an attempt should be made to make the Rift "backwards compatible" with things like cutscenes.

moralis wrote:I think controlled cutscenes are a necessary evil in order to advance the story the way a writer wants it to move.
Rendering a cutscene in a 3D environment and then giving the player full control to move around is a bad idea because what if the player choose to leave the room where the main conversation is taking place?
I don't even think it's evil. Mass Effect used pre-rendered cutscenes very tastefully. Just to let the player know what the setting was if the scene changed.

On the flip side, Half Life demonstrated how to show scripted events without taking over the camera (sometimes).
Diorama wrote: I just don't think that head bob on a VR HMD will be the same immersive feature it is on a flat screen. Think about the last time you walked somewhere, like the bathroom, or maybe to the fridge. Do you remember the head-bob effect? Maybe my brain cancels it out or something, but I honestly can't tell you that my natural head-bob is that consciously noticeable when I walk around. What will be noticeable, I think, is if my view were bopping and my actual head wasn't.
A lot of "immersion" is making things into what you take for granted. You may not notice your head bobbing while going to the bathroom for the tenth time that hour, but if you were to roll there on a Segway, then you would notice that you're gliding.
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Re: Camera rocking, cutscenes, etc

Post by Marv »

moralis wrote: What I would suggest is that in a VR environment, the cutscene is rendered on a 2D rectangular plane floating in front of the player's view like a sort of virtual cinema screen. The player's physical position is located a fixed distant away from the screen and this position won't change. Headtracking will then control the player's view perspective from that fixed position. The player will see the screen if he looks directly in front. He will see complete darkness if he looks 90 degrees to the left or right. It's sort of like watching a virtual cinema.
That's exactly what I thought while reading trough the first few posts. The main difference between what we used to play on (screens) and VR is not that it reacts to our head movement, but rather that our whole field-of-view is covered. That's what's causing the discomfort, because the visible world rotates but our head doesn't. So a solution can only be found by making it clear to the player when he's in the world himself and when he's watching as a spectator.

A virtual cinema seems to complicated and unnecessary to me. Black borders might do the trick and I would even prefer such a "step-back" mode, like going to the menu nowadays, to be accessible at any time. To be able to step out of the world for a second, without having to remove the Rift.
I think we would get used to these two states and come to expect certain VR aspects to be active or be deactivated, such as head-tracking, in any given situation.
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