Doom 3 BFG no longer supported at launch?

[cerulianbaloo]

I was lurking the Oculusrift.com forums and saw someone mention the following from a recent gamasutra article about the rift,

"While the system made its splash when John Carmack showcased it at E3 last year, showing it running Doom 3, senior product manager Joseph Chen says id's graphics engines will not be officially supported when the dev kits ship. Instead, the Rift will work with Unity 4 and Unreal Engine 3.

The lack of id support doesn't imply that the studio is uninterested -- Carmack may decide to support it in future games, in fact. In the meantime, Oculus is also working closely with Epic to support the upcoming Unreal Engine 4."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1848 ... QgQL_F5mSN

Well that's kind of a bummer, although not completely surprising given the screen change. I do wonder if it would take much tinkering from the community to get it working, I noticed that BFG already has a 3d option in settings that splits the image into stereo. As for head tracking, no clue what would be needed there. Here's hoping it doesn't take too long for them to add support.

[Daloots]

I saw that too, but read it as if the id Tech engine would not support it, as in the 3D engine licensed to other developers. This in contrast to the Unreal engine. I don't think the statement necessarily means that the game Doom 3 itself will not support the Rift.

[defactoman]

I think that's always been the case. Doom 3 BFG was made to work with the Rift Prototype, however the engine itself that ID creates wasn't going to be among the ones officially supporting it if I remember correctly. Sorta like Valve coming out with a Rift/VR supported game TF2, but not offering official Source Engine support.

I would hope that after the SDK is created that more engines will join in offering official support.

[cerulianbaloo]

@Daloots Yeah now that I re-read it that's what I assume to be the case. I do know Carmack wants doom 4 to support it out of the box, and I seriously doubt with so many backers eventually getting a redeem steam key or download voucher of some kind it wouldn't be ready for rift play. Speaking of which, has there been any word as to when we would receive those keys or vouchers?

[geekmaster]

... Speaking of which, has there been any word as to when we would receive those keys or vouchers?

Yeah, I have been wondering that too. I would like to try Doom 3 BFG on my LG 55-inch passive 3D TV (without head tracking) while waiting for my Rift Dev Kit...

[mahler]

Doom3BFG code has been released, including support for screen warping and head-tracking. I think that's a lot of support already.

I'm not sure, because I haven't seen the Oculus SDK yet, but it's probably not too much work to integrate it with the Doom3BFG code.
So it's likely to receive a patch... if not official, perhaps from enthusiasts.

[TheHolyChicken]

Doom3BFG code has been released, including support for screen warping and head-tracking. I think that's a lot of support already.

I'm not sure, because I haven't seen the Oculus SDK yet, but it's probably not too much work to integrate it with the Doom3BFG code.
So it's likely to receive a patch... if not official, perhaps from enthusiasts.

I would bet a good amount of money that Doom 3 BFG will be patched by Id themselves to coincide with the Rift devkits arriving.

I would also suggest that the Gamasutra article is misleading/inaccurate. As others have said, Id have announced they will support VR for future engines, and Doom 3 BFG, but nothing has been announced about "broad" Doom 3 engine support. But can you really imagine "the world's first Oculus-ready game" not supporting the Rift? I don't think that's likely...

[Direlight]

Doom 3 should definitely be patched, other VR platforms failed because (in part) no official game support. Granted, it's only a developer kit, however it's been advertised to work with Doom 3 BFG. Developers themselves want to know a whole game can be played on the Rift, start to finish. It makes no sense to make it work with a couple prototypes, but then actual first widespread release "sorry, no support, thanks for the $$$".

Btw, it's been outright said Doom bfg will work. It says it's confirmed "in-game" by 10-16-2012 on the wikipedia page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift#Software

Amazon reviewers on the Doom 3 page have all ready been telling people it works with the Rift. I ordered a dev kit myself because I wanted to set-up/develop my own VR system to play a whole game on. No official support, after being teased with it, WILL give it a bad reputation. This won't look good back to back. The dev kit (first 1000) come with Doom.

- Oculus Rift dev kits delayed
- Oculus Rift support for Doom 3 BFG delayed til unknown date, despite being it's primary showcase.


Those aren't good headlines for the tech/game sites.

[Namielus]

That in-game confirmation on wikipedia was originally added by me, I would not consider myself a very reliable source.
(taken from my google docs list)
Its been that way since before the jump to 7"

[greenknight]

Doom3BFG code has been released, including support for screen warping and head-tracking. I think that's a lot of support already.

I'm not sure, because I haven't seen the Oculus SDK yet, but it's probably not too much work to integrate it with the Doom3BFG code.
So it's likely to receive a patch... if not official, perhaps from enthusiasts.

I would bet a good amount of money that Doom 3 BFG will be patched by Id themselves to coincide with the Rift devkits arriving.

I would also suggest that the Gamasutra article is misleading/inaccurate. As others have said, Id have announced they will support VR for future engines, and Doom 3 BFG, but nothing has been announced about "broad" Doom 3 engine support. But can you really imagine "the world's first Oculus-ready game" not supporting the Rift? I don't think that's likely...

I Agree. It's not that complicated to make it work with doom 3 BFG, plus most of the work is apparently already been done. And he already has a prototype, etc, etc, etc. It's a poorly worded article.

[Direlight]

The game ships with the rift (first 1000), and no ones corrected your wiki entry. Mitchell also was talking about people buying Doom 3 for use with it.

[oculusfan]

The game ships with the rift (first 1000), and no ones corrected your wiki entry. Mitchell also was talking about people buying Doom 3 for use with it.

This. Why would they ship kickstarter backers and first 1000 preorders with DOOM 3 BFG if it doesn't have native Rift support? Somethings afoot.

[German]

This. Why would they ship kickstarter backers and first 1000 preorders with DOOM 3 BFG if it doesn't have native Rift support? Somethings afoot.

Nothing is "afoot".

The devkit changed from a 5.6" LCD to a 7" LCD because the old panel was discontinued and that requires a different shader to warp the view for the optics. Note, the keyword in that last sentence is "devkit". Most developers want the hardware, not the bonus game.

Whether Doom 3 gets a patch or not is up to id. Unfortunately, the BFG version is nearly a straight console port and an inferior version to the original. id's official time working on patches could be better spent(from a business standpoint) on fixing the issues in the game. Enjoy your free game, though.

[bobv5]

I'm pretty sure Carmack said there would be a patch, can't remember where though.

I don't really know how these game codes work, I already have Doom 3, will it be possible to give my BFG copy to somebody else if that patch never arrives?

[Direlight]

Most developers want the hardware, not the bonus game.

Ok, I've modded my own game before and taught myself scripting. I did this via looking at other peoples code and trial and error. I really don't see how having a functioning game is going to slow down game developers. If anything, them including Doom 3 and then scrapping it will give them bad PR, erode confidence, and literally slow development.

[German]

Ok, I've modded my own game before and taught myself scripting. I did this via looking at other peoples code and trial and error. I really don't see how having a functioning game is going to slow down game developers. If anything, them including Doom 3 and then scrapping it will give them bad PR, erode confidence, and literally slow development.

Then you don't understand very much about how all of this works and you're placing way too much importance on what is essentially a pack-in. They're going to have UDK and Unity integration on day 1. Drop a cube in either and you can see it with your stereoscopic 3D headset and then start programming. It doesn't get much quicker than that. Nothing's going to slow down or speed up with the inclusion or exclusion of Doom 3 support on day 1 except a trivial example that has been available for months(the code was published 2 months ago).

[WiredEarp]

I don't think thats true, not every developer needs it to cut code on immediately, some would like to test or demo a wide FOV, reasonably priced HMD, to see if they will be suitable for invest any real work on - and having a working AAA game from a big name to demo the Rift helps there, as well as being a marketing advantage.

If specs change, you cannot blame people for raising concerns if they have been promised X but only Y is going to be delivered - whatever the product.

[geekmaster]

... If specs change, you cannot blame people for raising concerns if they have been promised X but only Y is going to be delivered - whatever the product.

Especially when product X influenced their purchasing decision.

[Direlight]

German, Doom 3 is the test-bed game (aka prototype), how is it not relevant for software engineers?

Don't answer, go try to reverse engineer something before you say I'm clueless. Palmer all ready said they're including demos, if all they needed was the SDK, why include demos?

Whether Doom 3 gets a patch or not is up to id. Unfortunately, the BFG version is nearly a straight console port and an inferior version to the original

I think we know why you really don't care if it works or not.

-------UPDATE------

Lol, seems I was right. From the linux port thread:

I asked about GPL/LGPL or even BSD licensed libraries at Quakecon. There's a whole ton of open source games that are just begging to have Rift support dropped in. I haven't heard anything back yet. I suppose it's possible to just crib code from Doom3BFG GPL release, but LGPL is way more flexible for commercial titles.

[TheHolyChicken]

Ok, I've modded my own game before and taught myself scripting. I did this via looking at other peoples code and trial and error. I really don't see how having a functioning game is going to slow down game developers. If anything, them including Doom 3 and then scrapping it will give them bad PR, erode confidence, and literally slow development.

Then you don't understand very much about how all of this works and you're placing way too much importance on what is essentially a pack-in. They're going to have UDK and Unity integration on day 1. Drop a cube in either and you can see it with your stereoscopic 3D headset and then start programming. It doesn't get much quicker than that. Nothing's going to slow down or speed up with the inclusion or exclusion of Doom 3 support on day 1 except a trivial example that has been available for months(the code was published 2 months ago).

They will patch it because it would be a MASSIVE PR and marketing disaster for Id. Not having "the world's first Oculus-ready game" working on the Rift would be a complete joke, and would make Id a laughing stock. As far as VR progress, it would definitely erode confidence for other devs deciding to support the technology if it appeared Id had dropped support. This is what I read into his comment of "slowing development"; nothing changes as far as actually making software, but it could slow the development of VR becoming popular.

I imagine that many potential supporters are waiting to get their hands on the kits to see the tech for themselves to make a more educated decision about support. Devs and publishers must convince themselves or others that spending time and money on VR is a good idea, and having a stonking great demo is EXTREMELY important. It's not all about the SDK etc...

[Direlight]

Exactly, how many HMDs failed (again partly) because they only had vague tech demos? Being able to say "John Carmack put it in his game. Here, have a look!" is better then "I have some tech demos." when trying to convince the publishers.

[Endothermic]

Well the change to a 7" screen was a while ago and Palmer is still saying in interviews that D3:BFG and Hawken are the first RIFT ready games, so it's either getting patched or it isn't and they havn't bothered to inform Oculus that's the case.....

[laast]

They will patch it because it would be a MASSIVE PR and marketing disaster for Id. Not having "the world's first Oculus-ready game" working on the Rift would be a complete joke, and would make Id a laughing stock.

I think it's a bit exaggerated. It would be a disaster for us, VR enthousiasts, and maybe for the Oculus itself, but not for Id Software. Carmack doesn't need the Rift to make Doom 3 and Doom 4 a commercial success.

And don't forget that a majority of gamers on earth (hardcore and casual) are not even aware of a potential VR compatibility with Doom 3/4...So, imo, it will definitely not be a disaster for Id. Just a missed opportunity to bring video games to the next step.

[WiredEarp]

This is all just speculation anyway, until I hear something official from Oculus or from Palmer, I will continue to believe D3:BF3 will support the Rift. As other people have commentated, it would be a bit strange for id not to support it, especially after everything positive JC has said about the Rift.

[marbas]

JC tweeted about the new Oculus tracker. So it's clear he has been working on something Rift related. A doom3 patch probably. As for the screen change, I dont see how that would affect doom3 working on the Rift . I'm fairly confident we can expect a patch for Doom3 that will work with the devkit.

[Endothermic]

As for the screen change, I dont see how that would affect doom3 working on the Rift .

Palmer said they were using the 5.6" screen at CES instead of the 7" because they hadn't fixed the demo's to work with the new screen yet, so if they have to be changed to work with it for whatever reasons, then i'd expect that D3:BFG would need to be changed accordingly as well.

[marbas]

Palmer said they were using the 5.6" screen at CES instead of the 7" because they hadn't fixed the demo's to work with the new screen yet, so if they have to be changed to work with it for whatever reasons, then i'd expect that D3:BFG would need to be changed accordingly as well.

Yes, but the screen res is still the same (1280x800) or 2x640x800 if you will. That doesn't matter for game compatibility at all.
Even if the screen res would change there is no reason why it shouldn't work.

The only part of the doom3 game that needs patching is the tracker code.

[zeroxygen]

This thread is needless paranoia.

That article does not talk about doom3 bfg, it talks about id's engines which arent usable until open sourced.
Carmack has time to patch the game for the dev kit he endorsed. Doom3 bfg also still comes with the kickstarter dev kits.

There is zero evidence regarding the topic of this thread. What's the point?

[Endothermic]

The only part of the doom3 game that needs patching is the tracker code.

The 5.6" had 100% overlap, the 7" doesn't. The 7" has a slightly larger FOV which needs to be adjusted for in the game (and may result in the warping being slighly different and need compensating for in the warp shader?).

How can the tracker code be the only thing that needs changing if Oculus' own demo's were not ready for the new screens ?

They were even using the new tracker and code with those demo's so if D3:BFG would only need the tracker code changed, then there would of been nothing stopping them using the 7" screen at CES yet Palmer said they couldn't get the demo's working with the new screen in time so they were using the old 5.6" ones.

[marbas]

@Endothermic

As far as I know there is, and was already at doom3 launch, a framework in place (console commands) for the end-user to tweak the characteristic of the software warping. So there is really no reason doom3 shouldn't be made possible to work with the new devkit.

As of why Oculus didnt showcase the 7" version of the devkit. I don't know! And neither do you. There may be many different reasons for this.

But Im really curious to how would you know that doom3 wont support the devkit? Any links, or official statements to back up you claim?

[German]

German, Doom 3 is the test-bed game (aka prototype), how is it not relevant for software engineers?

Because code is more useful than executables and that code is already available.

How can the tracker code be the only thing that needs changing if Oculus' own demo's were not ready for the new screens ?

The Rift prototype they use is proven road ready. They know they can travel with it. The people know how to use it without thinking about it. The code that supports it is stable(enough) and works. It supports a broader swath of random people, if the speculation about the individual IPD adjustment requirement for the new 7" is correct.

[2EyeGuy]

I could be misreading this, but I noticed a bit of an anti-John Carmack vibe in the CES demos. They seemed to over-emphasise the fact that they weren't using any of John Carmack's work, and they were dismissing his work on getting a custom 250Hz tracker as just "an off-the-shelf tracker", and there was little or no mention or sign of Doom 3 BFG.

[German]

I could be misreading this, but I noticed a bit of an anti-John Carmack vibe in the CES demos. They seemed to over-emphasise the fact that they weren't using any of John Carmack's work, and they were dismissing his work on getting a custom 250Hz tracker as just "an off-the-shelf tracker", and there was little or no mention or sign of Doom 3 BFG.

One of the issues, early on, was that people thought it was John Carmack's device and he made it. He was the face of the Rift at the last E3. Thus the jokes about it around here. I don't think it's necessarily "anti"-John Carmack but I can see them wanting to distance themselves from the old prototypes now that pretty much everything is different. The next E3 is also only 4 months away and game sites are already starting to prep for it, so it makes sense to get the right info out there.

[Endothermic]

a framework in place (console commands) for the end-user to tweak the characteristic of the software warping.

Havn't seen anything about that.

@Endothermic
But Im really curious to how would you know that doom3 wont support the devkit? Any links, or official statements to back up you claim?

I never claimed D3:BFG won't support the devkit, Palmer is still saying in interviews that it is the first RIFT ready game so it either supports it as is or it will be patched to support it. Others were saying if it doesn't support the new devkit then it won't be getting patched to support it so I said it's getting patched as far as Oculus currently knows (spose I should of said if it needs to be patched when I said that) otherwise why would Palmer still be saying it's the irst RIFT ready game.

I then enquired how the tracker code could be the only thing that needs changing in D3:BFG if the other demo's with that code already, needed changing to work on the new screen, again not claiming that D3:BFG won't support it

The Rift prototype they use is proven road ready. They know they can travel with it. The people know how to use it without thinking about it. The code that supports it is stable(enough) and works. It supports a broader swath of random people, if the speculation about the individual IPD adjustment requirement for the new 7" is correct.

Yes they said that's a reason they were using the old prototype but the demo's obviously need coding changes to work properly with the new 7" prototype (since they said the "demo's" were not ready for the new prototype which implies that software needs changing) so you would think if that unreal and unity demo needed changing to work/display properly on the 7" prototype then another (such as D3:BFG) built to work with the old prototype (like the unity and unreal demp) would also need the same changes to work properly.

[przecinek]

Relax, I'm pretty sure DOOM3 will be oculus ready just like Hawken, when the first dev kits arrive.

I agree though that the fact they are still using the 5,6" prototype is getting more and more annoying.

[MSat]

I don't think there's any anti-Carmack sentiment. Throughout this whole process (even recently) does Oculus single him out for special thanks. He is no doubt a major reason for the Rift's early success. Also, I vaguely recall a recent article stating that John is giving feedback on the SDK. Assuming Oculus is writing the warp shader, it would probably take no time at all for John to incorporate the changes. Without looking at the D3 code, I'm guessing he did his own sensor fusion, so plugging into the Rift's API should only be a minor change over the previous tracker's. It's likely only a matter of Oculus getting their SDK finalized, John is not going to do their work for them.

[MrGreen]

No doubt Doom 3 is still supporting this but yet, I can't help but think Palmer's silence in this thread a little intriguing, though.

[Pingles]

They are likely on the verge of many announcements. Once the dev kits ship there will probably lots of great surprises.

[2EyeGuy]

No doubt Doom 3 is still supporting this but yet, I can't help but think Palmer's silence in this thread a little intriguing, though.

No, Palmer must be very busy right now. They are about to start manufacturing and shipping the Rifts, and organising everything else that goes with that.

[TheHolyChicken]

No doubt Doom 3 is still supporting this but yet, I can't help but think Palmer's silence in this thread a little intriguing, though.

No, Palmer must be very busy right now. They are about to start manufacturing and shipping the Rifts, and organising everything else that goes with that.

Indeed. And spending the time to address a thread that is nothing more than baseless paranoia is a waste of anyone's time, nevermind someone as busy as I'm sure Palmer is right now.