Devkit Shipping Service

[MaterialDefender]

I just read on Twitter that the devkit will be most likely shipped via UPS. For international shipments that might not be the most desirable option, to say it cautiously .

Why is that? As all private shipping companies UPS usually deals with the clearing formalities as soon as a parcel arrives in any country. That sounds like a nice service at first since the recipient doesn't have to deal with customs authorities, but besides a mandatory handling fee (~$15) more often than not this leads to unwanted side effects in the form of grossly miscalculated customs charges. UPS tends to assume the highest possible shipping costs as a base for the customs calculations whenever they are unsure. And they often are, which is quite amazing considering that they're the shipping service...

In this regard it would be better to handle international shipments via US Postal. This way in most countries the parcels would be delivered to local customs offices by public postal services. Recipients would have to deal with customs offices themselves, but that is almost always less hassle than dealing with the possible consequences of miscalculated customs charges by UPS and the likes.

[WiredEarp]

I have to agree! I'm hoping it wont be an issue for me as I assume my headsets will be shipped separately (since I ordered one dev kit, then one in the '2nd chance' offer). However, the last thing I bought off ebay was sent via UPS, and for the first time ever I had to pay customs duties etc. It added about $200 to the price of a $450 object.

I'm hoping the Rift will be under the threshold which means I dont have to pay any customs, which I think is around NZ$350-$375. However, its going to be close, and knowing customs, they will sting me

[MrGreen]

Yes. To put it eloquently, UPS sucks.

As a Canadian, USPS would be my first choice.

[dragontoaster]

Well they already charged the shipping fee, and it says it's UPS, so I assume the shipping fee is already calculated based on using UPS etc. Personally I prefer UPS but that's probably because I live a block from the UPS center and people never leave mail at my apartment so I always have to go pick it up anyway.

[backstaia]

http://www.golem.de/news/deutschland-ni ... 97197.html
oh no, worst case scenario. for non german speakers. the german customs confiscated the shipped ninja blocks devices, from another kickstarter project. they were missing the mandatory CE sign. Since this is a prototype there is of course no CE sign. I hope the issue can be resolved

[Conan]

I have had nothing but bad experience with usps, from packages that have been ran over by a van to countless lost packages and stuff months late

Stick with ups

[MaterialDefender]

@WiredEarp: You might be able to get your money back from the customs office if you can prove the real shipping costs, but that will cost time and, more importantly, a lot of nerves. It's a real shame and completely incomprehensible that this happens on a regular basis...

@Oculus, I hope someone there reads this: It's extremely important to have a special customs invoice on the outside the packages that includes the actual packaging+shipping costs to at least minimize the chance of problems. The Kickstarter invoice won't do. The CE-sign issue backstaia mentioned might also be a huge problem for every European, haven't thought about that. It might help to label the kits as prototypes or similar, but that's just a guess.

[zino]

The CE-sign issue backstaia mentioned might also be a huge problem for every European, haven't thought about that.

It's not a general EU problem. Swedish customs does not do this, and every time I hear a story like that it's from Germany.

That said, UPS never fails to disappoint me.

[MaterialDefender]

@zino: Theoretically that clearly should be an EU wide issue. But I can easily imagine that our beloved German bureaucrats are are bit more, well, bureaucratic than those elsewhere.

[zino]

@zino: theoretically that clearly should be an EU wide issue. But I can easily imagine that our beloved German bureaucrats are are bit more, well, bureaucratic than those elsewhere.

I don't think there is a EU wide set of rules rules for enforcement of CE markup for private imports. It's down to the country's rules and regulations, usually based on what rules they had for the local certification before EU entry. And I don't mean in the normal "rules must be transferred into local laws", I really can't find a reference to EU caring one way or the other.

When we get to certified resellers and grey imports EU does start to care, but that's another sad story.

[MaterialDefender]

Well they already charged the shipping fee, and it says it's UPS, so I assume the shipping fee is already calculated based on using UPS etc. ...

This is not about the shipping fee. That is already payed by the sender, of course. UPS charges an extra fee for the customs handling. But that's not the problem either, I would be glad to pay this fee for not having to deal with customs myself. The problem is that they often use the highest possible shipping costs (a completely absurd international overnight express fee) as a base for the customs calculations which then leads to overprized customs charges. It's hard to tell why they do this, they should perfectly know what their own shipping costs for any individual parcel were. But sadly they do it on a pretty regular basis.

[Cathodoluminescence]

The article's update mentions that another reason could be false declaration. Apparently, the ninja block were declared as gifts with a lower value as the actually have. It's a nice try to get around custom fees, but in the end illegal and no reason to complain.

[Leahy]

I'll just chime in my preference here in France is their national post. When I lived in Canada UPS was horrid, where I am at now I do not recall ever seeing a UPS van, DHL here is abysmal as well. FedEx has worked great the few times I used them. All aside I think using USPS for international is probably the best choice in that each country can figure it out using their own service.

As far as being CE compliant, I sure hope they can chime into this thread some time before it ships.

[MrGreen]

My experience:

UPS charges BS custom fees. If you're not there for delivery - and if you work you won't be - you have to go to their web site to enter the magic pin they left on the door and ask for them to retain the package at their facility, the next day, if you're lucky enough to have one in your city. You also have about an half an hour window to pick it up at the end of the day.

USPS will get transfered to Canada Post. No custom fees. If you're not there, you'll be able to pick it up the same day from 5:30 to 9:00pm at the nearest drop point which is 2 minutes from wherever you live.

Purolator is almost as good.

FedEX isn't even worth this sentence.

[zeroxygen]

My experience:

UPS charges BS custom fees. If you're not there for delivery - and if you work you won't be - you have to go to their web site to enter the magic pin they left on the door and ask for them to retain the package at their facility, the next day, if you're lucky enough to have one in your city. You also have about an half an hour window to pick it up at the end of the day.

USPS will get transfered to Canada Post. No custom fees. If you're not there, you'll be able to pick it up the same day from 5:30 to 9:00pm at the nearest drop point which is 2 minutes from wherever you live.

Purolator is almost as good.

FedEX isn't even worth this sentence.

Cant speak for everybody since I receive packages in the Southwest US, but both Fedex and UPS drop right at my door and will leave it there while I am not even present. Aside from UPS being slower than everybody else, I have never had any real problems with them here. I am left to assume these are regional requirements enforced in your area.

[Pingles]

Cant speak for everybody since I receive packages in the Southwest US, but both Fedex and UPS drop right at my door and will leave it there while I am not even present. Aside from UPS being slower than everybody else, I have never had any real problems with them here. I am left to assume these are regional requirements enforced in your area.

I read this thread with the same reaction. I guess we have it pretty good here. I don't usually even know who is delivering it. Just shows up.

[MaterialDefender]

@Pingles, zeroxygen: As long as you're in the US everything is fine regarding UPS. Problems may arise for international shipping with some very 'creative' methods of calculating customs fees that UPS tends to use if a parcel doesn't have a 110% perfect customs invoice attached to it.

[crespo80]

I live in Italy (where we have one of the most inefficient customs i the world) and I wouldn't know which option to choose, between a private courier (UPS) and the standard USPS.
USPS will take forever from the US, usually 3/4 weeks, but more often than not I will not pay any customs duty or, if any, they are reasonable most of the time.
UPS usually takes just a week from the US but I will pay the customs duty 100% of the time, and in my experience they were fair (if the customs declaration from the sender is correct).
I'd go with UPS for the rift (because I want it yesterday ) but you oculus guys have to be sure to write a 100% perfect form!

[Hicks100]

since when was it against the law to import non CE marked goods in europe?

Its against the law to sell non ce marked goods within the eu but not to import for your own personal use.

eg. if i wanted to import a batch of rifts and sell them in the UK then id have to get them CE marked in the UK before
i could sell em, but thats all.

Ive imported stuff recently without CE marking with no issues at all. At least thats how it works in the UK.

should be the same everywhere in europe no?

[cert]

I can confirm that CE marking is not a problem for germany. A invoice on the outside of the packages that includes the shipping costs is very important. You also have to clearly state what's inside the package "computer LCD display unit with digital inputs, w/o tv".

[MaterialDefender]

@hicks: https://www.gov.uk/telecoms-radiocomms- ... -exporting
@cert: http://www.berlin.de/lagetsi/themen/43197.html

I have imported stuff from China and elsewhere numerous times without any problems myself, but as backstaia mentioned earlier German customs authorities confiscated! parts from another Kickstarter project just a few days ago.

Seems to depend on the mood of individual customs officers, the moon or whatever...

[cert]

I think CE marking is only important when you want to resell the rift in germany.

[Laserschwert]

DHL would be the best carrier for shipping inside of Germany, I'd say.

But I agree and want to stress: Oculus has to make sure, that the correct invoices are placed at the outside of the boxes, otherwise it will cause unnecessary trouble for us.

[miahallen]

UPS won't ship to my address, USPS required, I hope they don't cancel my order

[KBK]

http://www.golem.de/news/deutschland-ni ... 97197.html
oh no, worst case scenario. for non german speakers. the german customs confiscated the shipped ninja blocks devices, from another kickstarter project. they were missing the mandatory CE sign. Since this is a prototype there is of course no CE sign. I hope the issue can be resolved

It needs to be listed as being "unpowered electronics for repair", when shipped.

If it is shipped as a DEV kit, it is for research, and can be labeled as a sample.

It is possible to associate no costs for a sample, but to still have a shipping loss value listed.

This is how it may be possible to drastically reduce cost for receiving such DEV research 'for repair' equipment into the given country with a standardized shipping systems.

These valuations are the norm in many English speaking countries and that of much of the western world.

This is the kind of inquires you folks need to be making, with regard shipping values in the paperwork.

This has the side effect of drastically reducing your landed costs, so look into it.

I always receive samples at no extra cost, as I make sure they come to me that way. That they are listed as a 'manufacturer's sample', $1.00 value.

Samples can also be exempted through the pathway of calling it something that is to be returned. Find the holes in the shipping system that are there for this very purpose. See how they are laid out. All it takes, most times, is the proper phrasing and references on the paperwork.

Even something like $4k RP Monitors, for research work, back in the day. A wooden crate the size of a fridge on it's side, in my driveway, but not one cent of importation costs.

For the entry into EU, the given device needs to be listed as RoHS compliant, which is what it will be.

[KBK]

I can confirm that CE marking is not a problem for germany. A invoice on the outside of the packages that includes the shipping costs is very important. You also have to clearly state what's inside the package "computer LCD display unit with digital inputs, w/o tv".

'Unpowered' can also be a critical specification, if it is to be past another possible hurdle.

I have been responsible for up to about 10k UPS shipments, personally. Across international borders, in and out of about 45-55 countries, at a minimum. Even Greenland.

[maboo63]

hello to all my german brethren
and hello to all the other nice people here

[anzbert]

i agree with the OP. UPS sucks for international shipping to remote australia. pls use USPS. never had any problem with them.

[KBK]

I can confirm that CE marking is not a problem for germany. A invoice on the outside of the packages that includes the shipping costs is very important. You also have to clearly state what's inside the package "computer LCD display unit with digital inputs, w/o tv".

'Unpowered' can also be a critical specification, if it is to be past another possible hurdle.

I have been responsible for up to about 10k UPS shipments, personally. Across international borders, in and out of about 45-55 countries, at a minimum. Even Greenland.

The reason I say 'unpowered', is to avoid the CE marking hassle, and another: radio interference. thus an unpowered piece of gear, that is for engineering/research ---just about covers that.

Stay away, if at all possible, from entering the areas of descriptive that require RF shielding to be permitted for use of any kind. Most importantly, the potential for full RF testing and certification prior to any importation.

"Unpowered research sample", and so on. KISS works beautifully, here.

This can be hyper-critical, to be sure that all of the given shipments headed for the given 'first world' country are not automatically blocked, when their origin point is filed at the given entry point/destination country.

[Cathodoluminescence]

How is it about research material? Do you have to state how long you will use it, when it will be returned or if it will be destroyed/kept?

I for myself had some mineral grains send over from Australia (to Germany) and because I didn't know better then just told them it would be for research and all sample would be destroyed after my reseach finished. In the end, I had to pay the tax fees because customs would have wanted to send someone over to watch me destroying the samples...

[KBK]

this is why i said, 'depends'. On the given country.

do your research into your OWN country's laws, processes, regulations, and so on. There will be allowances for these things, and possibly criteria that you will have to meet.

That you'll have to make decision to either pay all duties and taxes, or try to skip out of some of them, for all the correct reasons. Or, to make sure that the item actually comes into the given country, by making sure all required paperwork is straight.

It is VERY important to understand that the Oculus crew cannot do any of this for you. all they can do is send the unit onward, from their base. The end. Their responsibility ends there. the trick is to do all importation research as correctly as possible, at the buyer's end and they send the information, as simplified and as foolproof as possible, to the Oculus shipping people..and the Oculus shipping people require that information to be in a specific format. This, as the UPS software for shipping is a very regulated and controlled set up. things must be done 'exactly so'.


for example, when sending to Brazil. (UPS, DHL, fed ex, or parcel post)

It's very simple:

DON'T ship to Brazil. Don't ship anything.

Customs either hold, misplaces or steals just about everything. In my experience of shipping to Brazil, via postal or UPS, somewhere over 50% of parcels have been lost or stolen, or confiscated by government offices.

Jakarta Indonesia is another one. Must have sent maybe a dozen there, and maybe 5 made it.

Japanese addresses are another one that is difficult for the English UPS software, and layout, and the western mind. The addresses look like gobbledegook -to the western mind. What's a city, what's a province, what's the street address, and so on. That the buyer of the given item NEEDS to communicate to the shipper that 'this specific bit is the part that is put in the province spot', and 'this is the district part', 'this is the postal code', 'this is the city part', 'this is the street and house number part'.....and so on. Be excruciatingly linear and perfect, no holes to trip into...otherwise parcels get lost.

[Zoide]

I can confirm that CE marking is not a problem for germany. A invoice on the outside of the packages that includes the shipping costs is very important. You also have to clearly state what's inside the package "computer LCD display unit with digital inputs, w/o tv".

The "without TV" part is crucial in some countries. For example, in Costa Rica, if you import a monitor with only analog VGA inputs it pays 13% tax. But if it has DVI or HDMI inputs, it qualifies as a TV/videoconference device, and you get charged 49.27%!

[omeDev]

it's that bad in indonesia? what about singapore or malaysia?

[KBK]

the best route to avoid losses in the given country that may be 'suspect' with regard to shipping losses..is to have the parcel 'held for pickup' as part of the shipping specifications that are sent to the Oculus shipping crew.

That the UPS software as a spot or box that can be clicked on, which says 'hold for pick-up', so the item never goes out for delivery.

That it remains at the given local UPS sorting center,and the person whom the parcel belongs to, has to pick it up there, in person, with personal identification in hand. This was my final solution for dealing with downtown Jakarta.

The other, is to specify that the parcel is set for 'signature required' in order for the given delivery driver to release the parcel to anyone.

Brazil, for example, has to have the stuff go through customs, so it gets lost long before it can even be given to anyone. they find ways to hold it up, have it 'destroyed' and so on. Getting things through is an act of faith and planning. UPS denies responsibility as it is Brazilian customs that is the problem.

Singapore is a very good city/state, with regard to having shipments arrive correctly. Malaysia, not much familiarity there. Not enough data on Malaysian shipping on my part.

Most western world folks don't understand that some parts of the world don't have the most sophisticated mail delivery and mail protections and developed systems in place as the western world does, after having been at it for hundreds of years. Some deliveries in the far east are like delivering letters in a war zone, as comparisons go. That $300 US, plus delivery, is a few moths pay for some, possibly more....so the items are subject to higher levels of loss due to different values and understandings being at play.

[Direlight]

If your government is stealing your mail, maybe be more concerned with that, rather then ordering electronics.

[2EyeGuy]

But what bothers me is why the companies whose job it actually is to worry about these things, are doing such a bad job that the companies that just want to send out the product they made have to worry so much about it themselves.

[pAnatiC]

Iam relly scared.. Usually 300$'shouldnt be a problem to import. Someone experience?

300$ ->220€
+ sales taxes 19% 42€
+ shipping

Thats all? So it should be round about 300€?

[GeraldT]

sales tax and customs are not the same! you need to contact your customs office for information on how much customs will be ... with 19% I guess you are from Germany. I ordered quite a bit of electronics in the past ... best hope they just deliver it. I have had to pay quite a few DM and Euro in the past.

[KBK]

But what bothers me is why the companies whose job it actually is to worry about these things, are doing such a bad job that the companies that just want to send out the product they made have to worry so much about it themselves.

I probably could have gotten a discount on a good 5-10% of all UPS deliveries, at times. Simply due to being delivered poorly, or late.

But they always have an excuse. I don't recall ever receiving a single payout from UPS for damaged goods. They play quite the game.

The high end audio business, as a group of a good thousand companies.. tends to deal only with FED-EX, due to this.

However, on the international shipping front, Only UPS has the rates. Domestic, it's Fed Ex that's the better company. (USA and Canada) DHL can have good rates, at times. But when you ship with them..and then see their trucks arriving with your stuff at the UPS depot.....

[bobv5]

Not too concerned about the tax, but more delays would do unhealthy things to my mind.

Just done a quick price check, to ship a Rift via airmail from UK to USA is £62, or to China is £70. Assuming the Rift package is less than 1.5Kg, and the price is similar going the other way, I would happily pay that to get it in the next 2 to 3 days!