Meant to be Seen

Yes.

It wouldn't be such a good idea to take this whole Rift journey on such a personal level that you feel the need to defend things that don't need your defense. I won't quote, that would be rude - but there seem to be some members of these forums that are really quick to jump onto anything that's not the universal praise for anything Rift-related, especially in media-reaction and technical threads.

We've all seen similar behavior with supporters of Android, iOS and some other platforms and products. Dismissing any potentially bad news as something irrelevant, praising small changes as something that's "wow so awesome!".

For now, majority of members are being fair and honest in their discussions so let's hope this mindset won't begin to slip into everyday discussion: "No positional tracking? Well, you don't really need it anyway, you know." "You don't really need all that peripheral vision." "You don't really need..."

You get my point. Please, let's continue with keeping this honest and objective as possible.
Thank you for reading this.

I'm not really getting that vibe (except for maybe the photoshop thread...), but I agree with the sentiment that complacency is a bad thing.

I thought it was pretty clear from the "Faithful thread" that while they do respect Oculus for getting it done mostly right first, they wouldn't hesitate to buy a better HMD from a competitor.

I agree with the premise but I haven't seen enough, if any of that here to warrant a thread imo.

@Random
I see this stems from your previous comment in the other thread about the daily mail article. This leaves me confused as you turned it into a political discussion while feeling the need to defend something that doesn't need your defense.

I'm conservative and I think that article was garbage, not because they lean toward conservative views, but because it was misleading/fiction. It isn't even really bad toward the Rift itself, just in that its written by somebody who doesn't appear to care about accuracy.

I really don't see how valid opinions are being torn apart by this so called forming cult you speak of. If anything that article led toward misunderstanding.

zeroxygen wrote:@Random

It really has nothing to do with Daily Mail, which I'm not even familiar with. I haven't even read the article in question so mine reaction was just a small remark, nothing more.
To be honest, it's more in technical discussion. We're trying to have a honestly discussion about lenses, resolution, tracking, IPD and some members have this "Well, it's better than what Sony has" thing going - which is not helping the discussion. New members will be joining these forums sharing their concerns and doubts. I hope we can honestly assess their concerns without automatically going into defensive mode.
It's too bad you've mentioned Daily Mail because that might completely take this thread into another direction. If you want to edit your comment, I'll edit mine.

While I agree that any kind of fanbois tend to be quite annoying, people have the right to like whatever they want for whatever reason they want. If that means they like the Rift over any alternatives that may come about, then so be it. I don't care what people do as long as it doesn't harm others in the process. Only a tyrant would disagree.

People should do whatever they want, but i do sometimes wish the age of the poster would be listed in posts. I think that would be a nice compromise. I know i could barely handle reading the DayZ and Planetside 2 forums without getting angry, largely due to how people treated each other. Then theres the sheer amazing quantity of opinions, guesses and assumptions stated as pain-as-day fact....ugh

People expect others not to shoot up movie theaters or be suicidal, but we don't even teach all of our children basics of how we humans operate. Super basic stuff, like the wide variety of opinions people can take on and how they come about, or how other peoples rudeness often has more to do with how they've been treated than something you did or how someone not being attracted to you physically involves only a tiny bit of brain matter. Instead they're left to be fed ideas about "true love, "soul mates", "becoming one",etc. When you used to buy a printer, you'd get 6" worth of manuals with a troubleshooting guide and a support number, but when your born you get nothing, despite being much more complex. But thats another topic...

Daily press aside I think for the technical some may say you don't need this and don't need that, but are really talking about the first iteration. Opinions will be more concrete once more people get ahold of it.

There are no specs for a consumer version and the dev kit is meant to drive conversation on what the consumer version should be. Saying it doesn't need something is likely very true; for the dev kit.

This tends to happen on forums/threads when the subject is pretty well known(to the participants) and there is a lack of new information with a long time until release. They can just turn into cheerleading and echo chambers. This can also end up having negative repercussions when the product is finally available. Either it doesn't live up to it's promises and hype(not likely for the Rift) or people start delving into off topic and hypothetical offshoots that can start casting a negative light on the participants themselves. See the "Women and Oculus Rift" thread as an example.

It seems to get especially bad with games and gaming peripherals.

People on the Internet are passionate... So you can never rule out some degree of cultism.

But this project is special. It feels like the start of an era - something that could be real big. And something that the people on here wanted for up to 30 years now and have finally the chance to get. And lets not forget, several of the people on this forum played a big part in it happening at all, be it by inspiring Palmer or helping him or sharing information with him.

So of course, some people here might be more passionate than others. And they may downplay some shortcomings - which is not that big of a deal, really. If all those vids and reports are realistic, this is the first consumer device that you actually can call a virtual reality device. Of course there is a lot that you could do better - resolution, field of view, lag, position tracking, more comfortable, lighter, cameras at the front and the back, full surround sound headphones, and lots of stuff that I, as an outsider with little technical knowledge doesn't even think of. All of that will happen with time - so those aren't "necessary" now. What is important is, that it is starting - and people will feel like they are in another world with this thing, besides all the shortcomings. This is the big invention, the big step - after that you can concentrate on making it all better.

So, while I get what you are saying, I think there is a lot of reason to be really excited right now - I am sure that people are aware, that there are plenty of things you could do better - but as long as they are not deal breakers, people can live with that.

We are getting the first true virtual reality device for 300$ - and there will be plenty of improvements and new models later to perfect it...

German, what exactly is so negative about my thread? I was just proving a point that our forum is heavily one sided.

Interesting thread... it's probably a good thing to think about when posting. Keeping in mind that there are very few posting their opinions about what is and isn't required of the rift, we (myself included) should be careful not to give 'professional opinions' when the experience is likely to be very much subjective. I think that no matter how good it is, there will be some people that have trouble with one aspect or another of it.
On the other hand. There are many on here who have been dreaming of a reasonable VR solution for the majority of their lives (seriously, I was playing doom at 13yo and trying to work out if there was a way to mount/hang the CRT monitor, remove the balls from the mouse and run a string over the x-axis roller to create a VR experience) and this seems like the very first iteration of what is (or can become) something like what we have dreamed of.
I think the story of the creation is also one that touches a lot of us because of similar experiences. When Palmer talks about the rift and the trying the products and it's not there yet, then trying another and it's not there yet... this seems an almost universal experience on here.
So... we should try not to give too many opinions that may confuse newbies on the forum, but I think the level of excitement is justified by the majority of members. If successful, it could become a cult. It's not a cult - yet.

LikeMike wrote:And lets not forget, several of the people on this forum played a big part in it happening at all, be it by inspiring Palmer or helping him or sharing information with him.

So of course, some people here might be more passionate than others. And they may downplay some shortcomings

I feel those with more knowledge (usually those who joined MTBS3D earlier on tend to have some extra knowledge) are more objective than those without it.

TheHolyChicken wrote:"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

As long as those doubts keep us striving towards excellence, I see no problem. I'd say doubts are what keeps us going.

Randomoneh wrote:

LikeMike wrote:And lets not forget, several of the people on this forum played a big part in it happening at all, be it by inspiring Palmer or helping him or sharing information with him.

So of course, some people here might be more passionate than others. And they may downplay some shortcomings

I feel those with more knowledge (usually those who joined MTBS3D early on) are more objective than those without it.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

TheHolyChicken wrote:"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin.

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." -- William Shakespeare

"The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice." -- The Bible (Proverbs 12:15)

Since 1999 also known as the Dunning–Kruger effect and is awarded with an actual Ig Nobel Prize

The Oculus Rift is not going to be any different than any other product out there. What this means, is that regardless of how neutrally enthusiastic most of us are, there will always been fanboys. Fanboys are just something that come with the territory. They annoy all of us, but often they are the ones out there spreading the word the most, which in the case of the Rift is what we need. I know I'll be demonstrating my dev kit to as many of my gamer friends as possible to get Oculus Rift stuck in their head.

oh...
well I supose that the poll that I was about to post about using rift and types of beer you like will have to wait...
it would have been titled "Rift and Beer"...

Agree with TS. It became obvious from the December delay update and is quite annoying and unhelpful.

3dRat wrote:oh...
well I supose that the poll that I was about to post about using rift and types of beer you like will have to wait...
it would have been titled "Rift and Beer"...

Oh... please dont

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYmuHatJ14[/youtube-hd]

As long as this cult respects my "authoritay", I'm ok with it.

Regards,
Neil

Uhoh. So many posts in this thread I want to *Thumbs Up, *Like, *Plus One, *Glorify, *Upvote or *Olla, but oh well. Interesting discussion, and uh, I have nothing to contribute.

Except that I'm looking forward to see what kind of discussion we all will have when people have their hands on the devkit. Prediction: Forum explosion, especially with new people who has no idea what they got their hands on "I THUNK ME BOUGHT LE HEAD TV YO? WHY DUSNT MA 360 DISPLAY RITE ON DIZ?" yeah, exciting times ahead. Or wait, will people like that go to oculusrift.com instead? Hmh!

In any case, my impression of the discussions that have been going on have been that most often reasonable conclusion and explanations are presented, which doesn't seem so fanboyish to me. I read somewhere that fanboys become just that when it has gone so far that they have attached a brand/product/IP to their own mental image of themselves, their person.

That means that critisism of the brand/product/IP feels like a personal attack directed at themselves, which then often results in defensive actions which not always rhyme well with reality. Like defending a product that is clearly inferior to the competition just because it has a certain brand. Or something like that Not sure if the VR/3D/Oculus/Rift community have many sufferers of this yet.

Fanboyism is unavoidable. Lots of people cannot afford to buy each console. If it is a child it could be whichever their parents were willing to buy. Either way, once that person has decided which console is theirs, not only has a financial investment been made, but an emotional one as well. From that point forward that individual will defend that product aka investment as if it is their own well being that they are defending. It is all a sub-conscious defense mechanism and it takes a lot of intellect (which most people don't have) to overcome it and act rationally.

We shouldn't encounter this phenomenon with the Rift until other companies start releasing their own versions. Then it will be just like sony vs nintendo vs xbox, iphone vs android, windows vs mac vs linux, etc etc etc.

oculusfan wrote:Fanboyism is unavoidable. Lots of people cannot afford to buy each console. If it is a child it could be whichever their parents were willing to buy. Either way, once that person has decided which console is theirs, not only has a financial investment been made, but an emotional one as well. From that point forward that individual will defend that product aka investment as if it is their own well being that they are defending. It is all a sub-conscious defense mechanism and it takes a lot of intellect (which most people don't have) to overcome it and act rationally.

We shouldn't encounter this phenomenon with the Rift until other companies start releasing their own versions. Then it will be just like sony vs nintendo vs xbox, iphone vs android, windows vs mac vs linux, etc etc etc.

Look at your user name and while the first half of what you are saying is true, it doesn't explain the fanboism already entrenched in the Rift/Oculus.

BOLL wrote:Like defending a product that is clearly inferior to the competition just because it has a certain brand. Or something like that Not sure if the VR/3D/Oculus/Rift community have many sufferers of this yet.

But it would be normal to defend "your child", especially because many people in this forum watching the evolution from a forum project into a real product, having a different emotional connection to it anyway beeing part of the backers who made it possible, or not?

I mean, the success Palmer has is kind of a proof that you can really make it if you're at the right spot at the right time and get enough people behind you believing in a product, even if it's a niche product in a genre wich officially died a long time ago. It's this straight forward crazyness wich makes it a cult, crowdfunding people deciding on the future of gaming and more or less their own destiny, and not a huge corporation.

Okta wrote:

oculusfan wrote:Fanboyism is unavoidable. Lots of people cannot afford to buy each console. If it is a child it could be whichever their parents were willing to buy. Either way, once that person has decided which console is theirs, not only has a financial investment been made, but an emotional one as well. From that point forward that individual will defend that product aka investment as if it is their own well being that they are defending. It is all a sub-conscious defense mechanism and it takes a lot of intellect (which most people don't have) to overcome it and act rationally.

We shouldn't encounter this phenomenon with the Rift until other companies start releasing their own versions. Then it will be just like sony vs nintendo vs xbox, iphone vs android, windows vs mac vs linux, etc etc etc.

Look at your user name and while the first half of what you are saying is true, it doesn't explain the fanboism already entrenched in the Rift/Oculus.

Lol I'm not above being a fanboy. You still won't find me on message boards senselessly defending products. That's where the "overcoming it and acting rationally" part comes into play.

the great occulus will show you worlds beyond your imagining. now offer your virgins daughters if you have them so he may gaze upon them. oh and make them wear white robes those are classy.

Lol cult. There was no mention or thought of that word until the OP.

People aren't that dumb, and besides things move too quickly these days for anyone
to get hung up on one particular thing for too long lol

Lookforyourhands wrote:Lol cult. There was no mention or thought of that word until the OP.

People aren't that dumb, and besides things move too quickly these days for anyone
to get hung up on one particular thing for too long lol

Ummm, ever heard of Apple?

didn't they make the machintosh?

is it the people behind the Newton? That thing is doooope

well if they named it after newton it's gotta be.

Randomoneh wrote:Let's not turn this great thing into a cult

I don't see what you want to mean.
I have posters of Palmer Luckey all over my room - but - only my room.

I sense more Palmer/Carmack meme coming.