Oculus Rift and iPhones/Androids

[druidsbane]

Quick question, does anyone know how we might be able to interface with iPhones? I'd like to write a nice game targeted specifically for the Rift on the iPhone, but I'm willing to get any phone just to be able to drive the Rift portably

The display can definitely be driven by the phone even though it may not support the same resolution/refresh rate, that can be worked on. My question is related more on the tracker side: if the HDMI port is used up just for video and that is the only input to the iPhone, might we be able to get an analog tracker signal in through the headphones or would that be too much? Bluetooth4 could work if the Rift break-out box supports that but I don't know if that would introduce too much lag. Hope to hear some good news since I have a few extra months to work on this now that there is a delay

[Volte6]

Android might be easier since it already supports both HDMI and USB.

[druidsbane]

Android might be easier since it already supports both HDMI and USB.

As much as I want to use my current phone of choice, Android is probably the best bet right now, followed by a Windows tablet (I don't think the phones support USB peripherals and HDMI yet). I'm hoping that once the SDK is out the driver portion to talk over USB should be simple enough to port to any device.

Very excited about the possibilities carrying a tiny phone to power the Rift. Also, by tailoring the game to the capabilities of the phone and lower res of the Rift we can probably create some nice immersive environments that are very different in style from what will be designed for more powerful desktops.

[Volte6]

Can an android do 60hz of any resolution though?

[mahler]

Android might be easier since it already supports both HDMI and USB.

As much as I want to use my current phone of choice, Android is probably the best bet right now, followed by a Windows tablet (I don't think the phones support USB peripherals and HDMI yet). I'm hoping that once the SDK is out the driver portion to talk over USB should be simple enough to port to any device.

This seems the perfect solution....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRhJQqDTw0[/youtube]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Hig ... ition_Link

Edit: Removed statement about the Rift and added Wiki-link

[EdZ]

Careful, there's a similar technique called Slimport (used in the Nexus 4, for example) that would actually be the opposite of good: you cannot output video over Slimport whilst simultaneously using the connector as a USB interface.

[PalmerTech]

New Samsung phones like the Galaxy S III and Note II support simultaneous USB and HDMI use over their new MHL connectors.

[druidsbane]

New Samsung phones like the Galaxy S III and Note II support simultaneous USB and HDMI use over their new MHL connectors.

Perfect I'll start by targeting one of those in the android simulator

[zacherynuk]

I bought a USB=>HDMI for my galaxy siii so I could hook it up to one of my pico's. Damn thing needed juice to work which kind of evaded the point of portability. It does work with the USB output from my solar charger thingy, but still - I was gutted.

[druidsbane]

I bought a USB=>HDMI for my galaxy siii so I could hook it up to one of my pico's. Damn thing needed juice to work which kind of evaded the point of portability. It does work with the USB output from my solar charger thingy, but still - I was gutted.

Still, it is worth a shot I can use friends' devices for testing...

[logicalChimp]

Also, the Motorola Razr (and Razr Maxx) have separate mini-HDMI and mini-USB ports on them - far enough apart you can actually get cables into both at the same time. Don't know if they could power anything over USB (not looked, not tried), but if they can, the Maxx has a 3300ma/hr battery iirc

[radicaledward101]

Also, the Motorola Razr (and Razr Maxx) have separate mini-HDMI and mini-USB ports on them

Don't forget about the Droid 4! The Droid 4 is basically a Razr with a physical keyboard. I was just looking at my phone yesterday and thinking about trying to hook the rift up to it.

[cybereality]

Maybe related: what about the new Microsoft Surface Pro tablet?

It has a full USB 3.0 port and DisplayPort connections (which I assume can be converted to HDMI/DVI).

Would be cool to be able to demo real full 3D Windows games with the Rift on the go.

[wavefunction]

It might shorten the battery life dramatically though. Tablets should be okay but my smartphone (LG Optimus LTE) can't play a decent looking game for even two hours on a full charge with the brightness turned way down. Most new smartphones are like this.

[BillRoeske]

I do most of the engine development for our real-time 3D Android projects (mostly live wallpapers but also the occasional game) and have been wanting to get our code working with the Rift, too. I haven't been able to justify spending a lot of work time on it yet, though, because frankly I'm not convinced any of the current devices support HDMI well enough to work with the Rift properly.

Most Android devices only output HDTV resolution, which is a mismatch for the Rift's 1280x800. Even then, it's also not uncommon to see a black border around part of the screen. Also, it seems like almost all of them have some bizarre HDMI quirk to them. The Motorola Xoom, for example, doesn't report its signal rate properly, so our video capture equipment seems to think that it is running at over 700fps. (Thankfully we don't use that one anymore )

Perhaps even worse, Android take a rather huge performance penalty while displaying mirrored content. Digital Foundry was able to put some numbers to it, and our own testing bares it out. This wallpaper generally runs smoothly on the device, but you can see the impact of mirroring around the 0:45s mark (also note the black border):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdOU_9hiDJ8[/youtube]

Finally, not all Android devices run at a multiple of 60Hz. Some are locked to 55Hz and some are a crazy value in-between. We have one (old) device over here that seems to bounce between ~50Hz and ~85Hz.

Not many Android devices shy of a few tablets have an HDMI and a USB connector. Palmer mentioned the GSIII and GNII's new connector, which could open up a path for getting tracker data and such back from the Rift while still outputting video. Google TV has USB and robust HDMI support (as you might expect) but current hardware is underpowered and that spin of the OS doesn't allow native C/C++ code. I made sure that Canabalt HD runs properly on it, but most developers will pass it by. Also, a Google TV box isn't very portable. Google is targeting wireless HDMI the Nexus 4 and Android 4.2, so hopefully the things will improve in the near future.

Android support has been mentioned by Oculus, so hopefully they've been able to connect with the right people and have some plan around all of this. My boss is totally willing to let me take some work time to explore developing for the Rift, but I need to be able to demonstrate that a device or two will actually work with it first.

Edit: Updated thoughts on the GSIII/NoteII connector.

[brantlew]

Hey Bill. Have you considered adapting any native content for a FOV2GO or (even better) a device like this?
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 607#p84593


I realize there is no market, but it would be an amazing demo to see good VR content running like this without tether or a PC.

[BillRoeske]

One final thought for prospective Android/Rift developers: You probably want to target Android 4.1/SDK16/Jelly Bean and up, which have a proper VSYNC heartbeat. You may need to write your own version of GLSurfaceView that uses Choreographer, though, since I don't think it's been updated to use it yet. I'll check on that and update this post when I have a moment.

If you just use stock GLSurfaceView, you'll get frame timing that doesn't line up with the actual device vsync, which can lead to some pretty bad judder on some devices. The Jelly Bean user base is pretty tiny right now, but that's a problem time will fix (possibly by the time any project started right now is ready for release...).

The Project Butter talk from Google I/O 2012 gives a good overview:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8m9sHdyXnE[/youtube]

[sth]

Coming back to the original question:
You can output 720p via HDMI on iOS devices and all devices using an A5-or-newer SoC should have enough power to render reasonably complex scenes at a constant 60fps, especially when not doing actual stereo rendering. It will be interesting to see how big the performance impact of the warp shaders will be, though. The iPhone/iPad HDMI adapter also has another dock connector so, in theory, the tracker could be connected at the same time.

However, the software-side is a bit problematic: There is a public API for communicating with devices via the dock connector, but AFAIK this doesn't work for arbitrary USB devices.

[BillRoeske]

Hey Bill. Have you considered adapting any native content for a FOV2GO or (even better) a device like this? [...][/url]

I realize there is no market, but it would be an amazing demo to see good VR content running like this without tether or a PC.

I've been tempted, but my tinkering time has been pretty much spoken for lately. It would be really fun to do, so I'd definitely be game if I can come up with a good tiny-scope project design. A lot of limitations happen when you seal off the touchscreen behind a set of optics and the only forms of input left is the microphone and tracker. Ideas are welcome!

You may need to write your own version of GLSurfaceView that uses Choreographer, though, since I don't think it's been updated to use it yet. I'll check on that and update this post when I have a moment.

GLSurfaceView does not use the Choreographer heartbeat, so new developers would have to write their own version. My employer views some of the fancy things ours does as a competitive advantage, so I can't release it. I did ask, though.

[Unclebob]

Hey guys

Anyone tried this as a low cost 'rift' like machine.

Stream your desktop using an app... and away you go

http://www.find-me-a-gift.co.uk/gifts/i ... iewer.html

Just some thoughts

ub31

[Unclebob]

Has anyone tried

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ient&hl=en

For streaming?

Splashtop seems to be the favourite, I am experimenting with Kainy with a Nexus 7.

May go the custom Rom route to boost the Nexus 7 performance.

Then its just about setting the lenses.

Oh and has anyone tried using the air mouse apps

Thanks

Ub31

[Unclebob]

Ok here is the idea.

Nexus 7 - Desktop Streaming app (Kainy, Splashtop etc) - Lenses - Housing - Virtual Laser App - SBS stereo driver on PC - gaming in a window.

Proof of concept build.

Nexus in bottom of Xmas lights box
http://www.screencast.com/t/l4h0w0w1Ps

A smaller box will fit into the larger an act as support for the lenses. Positioning can be done through trial an error to get this.
http://www.screencast.com/t/nOyWepIS

So we now have
http://www.screencast.com/t/2IPjM4JS

Have down loaded a SBS picture and its in the gallery - plenty out there. Next the small box goes in the big and some focus and small lens adjustments made.
http://www.screencast.com/t/xPNCwXkjlLH0

Left eye
http://www.screencast.com/t/HgBa22YvCoV

Right eye
http://www.screencast.com/t/IwO44FOdvB6

Voila.

Now just need to take measurements and build a more solid one and then get headtracking to work with a desktop streamer.

Thoughts?

UB

[sth]

Similar builds were discussed in some other threads, maybe you'll find some information there:

E.g.:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 593#p84593
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 07&start=0
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=139&t=15490

[Unclebob]

Similar builds were discussed in some other threads, maybe you'll find some information there:

E.g.:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 593#p84593
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 07&start=0
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=139&t=15490

Those were inspiration sth.

Just wanted to get out there how easy a build could be for those interested in a look see.

And cheap if you have a tablet

Proper optics and tracking will make a huge difference.

Having done this I really can't wait.

But if I can improve on it I will.

UB

[Okta]

I recently got an mk808 android TV unit and it is pretty awesome. Something like this would be perfect for untethered mobile (with usb battery packs easily bought from ebay) Android gaming on the Rift. It will be cool trying this on the Rift with something like splashtop as well.

[Dilip]

This was my long unfullfilled desire to have HMD which could be connected to handheld console like PSP or Ipod Touch to get immersive gaming experience On the GO.

i did some googling and search on web and come to know PSP3004 (PSP 3000 for US version) though capable of Video Out i could not find out HMD that can complement other than VUZIX WRAP 310XL

i sent query to VUZIX but they did not replied weather it will work with PSP & what kind of output to expect clearly. neither they have any showroom in india back then (Aug 2010) i thought some one on MTBS could find out so i did posted back then, heil cyber he did responded with some enlightment.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=11298

i think now thech came much forward then those days now we have PSP VITA which is really way more powerful then PsP3000 but ports
Slots / Ports

- PlayStation Vita card slot.
- Memory card slot.
- SIM card slot (3G / Wi-Fi model only).
- Multi-use port (for USB data communication, DC IN, Audio [Stereo Out / Mono In].
- Headset jack (Stereo mini jack) (for Audio [Stereo Out / Mono In]).
- Accessory port.

sadly nothing reads VIDEO OUT besides sony has closed eco system so you can't expect 3D games unless sony release them so here possiblity ends

now what i see as real opportunity is surly mobiles whith HDMI out but here is catch you will require to keep bluetooth joystick along with phone as you simply can not see touch screen while you are inside RIFT

Moreover current gen mobile phones or Tabs don have such juice in battery to power rift + mobile for longer period

what is desired is Android/IOS Version for RIFT or "RIFT M" which carry about 5 inch screen (Smaller is better for pocket firendly) a decent 3000 or 4000 MAH battery that can be kept in pocket (don't want bettery in rift, as it will increase weight but if super light weight bettery found anywhere then inside unit is ok) and only one cable coming out carry audio+video by keeping all LCD drive mechenism sealed inside "RIFT M" only. a universal 3.5mm port for headphone can be kept somewhere on outer shell of 'RIFT M'


Brightest opportunity seems PROJECT SHIELD from NVIDIA but i don't know if they have joy killing "LATANCY" in PC game Streeming+Tracker Data Streeming to give VR experince of RIFT via their PROJECT SHIELD if tracker made independent of USB some how as via BLUETOOTH still don't know what kind of latancy it will introduce.BUT IF YOU DEVELOPE HAWKEN LIKE GAME ON ANDROID SHIELD PLATFORM ITS WIN WIN if NVIDIA keep It Economical HIGHLY UNLIKELY

but some solid facts

1) Mobile RIFT should have every thing packed in single unit most desired.

2) Good own bettery thus it will not to drain entertainment feeder device.

3) Head tracking can be omitted for sack of greater good for some time, if it
surpasses other benifits like immersion & FoV

4) Good device with Physical KEYS required or Bluetooth controller to be
carried all time but that limits whole mobility idea

5) NVIDIA CAN YOU SEE YOU CAN HAVE GOOD SIDEKICK TO PROMOTE YOUR
SHIELD???

[sth]

This was my long unfullfilled desire to have HMD which could be connected to handheld console like PSP or Ipod Touch to get immersive gaming experience On the GO.
[...]

3) Head tracking can be omitted for sack of greater good for some time, if it
surpasses other benifits like immersion & FoV

If you're willing to omit head tracking, this overpriced adapter is all you need (assuming the Rift's control box accepts a 1280x720 signal).

[Dilip]

sth its GOOD High FOV HMD with minimum cable and hassles which can be connected with PSP or ANDROID gaming device is what i need certainly not IPOD Connector

[sth]

sth its GOOD High FOV HMD with minimum cable and hassles which can be connected with PSP or ANDROID gaming device is what i need certainly not IPOD Connector

???

This was my long unfullfilled desire to have HMD which could be connected to handheld console like PSP or Ipod Touch to get immersive gaming experience On the GO.
[...]
3) Head tracking can be omitted for sack of greater good for some time

Using the adapter, you can connect an HMD (like the Rift) to an iPod touch (but without headtracking). That's all I'm saying.
It's not an all-in-one solution, but probably the closest you can get right now, given the lack of video out on many of the other devices.

[Okta]

One problem with the Rift and portable devices is that there may be no sound. At least not on my mk808 that has sound through its hdmi.

[sth]

One problem with the Rift and portable devices is that there may be no sound. At least not on my mk808 that has sound through its hdmi.

Good point, though most portable devices (phones, tablets, etc.) should have 3.5mm jacks.
For those devices that don't have one, you could either split the audio from the HDMI signal (but those solutions are pretty expensive AFAIK) or you could try to use a USB audio interface (or headphones with an integrated one).

[Okta]

Just did some more research. It appears the Finless 1.6 rom supports usb sound cards

http://www.freaktab.com/showthread.php? ... Custom-ROM

Otherwise a cheap set on fm headphones from the pc sound would work for splashtop.