g-force simulation for VR driving concept

[topas]

Isn't this the ultimate device you guys are looking for? Those industrial robots are amazing

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoA-m5iHG9s[/youtube]

[mayaman]

That's nuts and irresponsible, that thing came within an inch, if that of crushing that dudes skull.

[topas]

It definitely is, but thats not the fault of the machine.
But think about it, you don't(or less) have any restrictions in movement, every position is possible and you can also turn in circles. Sure you have to create some good security mechanics...

mayaman, i like your amazing setup, great work!

[mayaman]

Indeed, sorry to sound like an old man. Lol

Thanks, more to come

[crespo80]

I have a not-moving sim-racing cockpit too ( http://www.thewayiplay.com/mainforum/in ... pic=1887.0 ) and a rift coming, hoping to see some support for it in the next months (but I'm not too positive on that).

I always wanted to build a motion platform, but I was looking to something pivoted above the head, to realistically reproduce head movements, something that standard designs (with the actuators that actually lift the platform from below) cannot accomplish.

I was captured by this genius design, which makes intelligent use of rails to actually move the pivot point above the head, with limited space requirements and not too complicated build. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZhAECb ... e=youtu.be

[mayaman]

Are you sure you can't get the feeling you want? I'm guessing you havent tried a correctly tuned and calibrated dbox platform. Remember, like the rift, your brain starts filling in the gaps for movement. After a minute or so you actually feel like you're moving. The rift coupled with the dbox is going to be nuts.

I've seen this video before but the guy doesn't answer questions. Very cool though.

[android78]

I have a not-moving sim-racing cockpit too ( http://www.thewayiplay.com/mainforum/in ... pic=1887.0 ) and a rift coming, hoping to see some support for it in the next months (but I'm not too positive on that).

I always wanted to build a motion platform, but I was looking to something pivoted above the head, to realistically reproduce head movements, something that standard designs (with the actuators that actually lift the platform from below) cannot accomplish.

I was captured by this genius design, which makes intelligent use of rails to actually move the pivot point above the head, with limited space requirements and not too complicated build. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZhAECb ... e=youtu.be

That's a fantastic design! It looks to me like the pivot is just a tad too far forward to be accurate, but one of the best designs I've seen. I wonder what motors he's using for it... looks to be pretty powerful!

[mayaman]

Guy doesn't respond to messages.

[android78]

I watched some more of the youtube videos the guy posted and he does mention in one of them that he's using winch motors and gears. Could be a good place to start looking if you're wanting to replicate this. It looks like he's using some bent steel H-bar for the 'tracks'. Getting the bend exactly right would be a tricky job and require an industrial bending machine, I imagine. If you have access to it, could be good though.

[crespo80]

There's also his thread on the x-sim forums with a sketch and some infos

http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/my-2dof ... t3646.html

[fader]

mayaman, I noticed your harness after I posted (the thread was longer than I realised!).. thats awesome I think even without any motion it seems to add to the immersion.

The rail/sliding rig is an interesting concept, seems like it would be difficult to build though? Also I wonder if the movement is fast enough.. As I think was said previously, its the high frequency/fast movements that are key to racing simulators. The unfortunate thing to me about it is it has no vertical movement, I really think this would be important feedback, to be able to 'feel' the weight of the car over bumps/rises etc while cornering... I have never tried more than the GS4 though so this is all just my theory.

My ultimate motion rig would probably be one of the following (6dof).. combined with a GS4 seat. It would be similar to what mayaman has I think, with the addition of some (albeit minimal) forward/back, side to side and yaw movement. The important thing to me is that there is no fixed pivot point.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDLjxFpYO1s[/youtube]

http://www.ckas.com.au/6dof_low_cost_systems_62.html

The next step up... 50cm of vertical movement (actually 4dof vs the 6dof above, but the movements/angles are much larger)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02JPYsR2SQc[/youtube]

http://www.motion-sim.cz

And the piece de resistance...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxMGdF_i8QI[/youtube]

http://www.cruden.com/motorsport/our-pr ... imulators/

Even if i had the cash to drop on any of the above, I don't think i could do it without trying them all out first! .. and then theres still the question of whether the RIFT (or HMD in general) will ever work well with motion simulators.. it sure is good fun to look at all these inventions/concepts though

[cybereality]

Wow! Great finds fader.

[xef6]

Here's another that seems to be the same model as the second one fader linked:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WDk1ndGWLQ[/youtube]

And one with plenty of travel, where the guy messes up
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LjnfnQZlGg[/youtube]

Last but not least, a BSG viper simulator:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJsRdrN62wA[/youtube]

I really would like to make one, but it's such a cost prohibitive thing

[fader]

Just came across this today (its from March so possibly posted/seen before but I did search).. its not motion, but quite interesting and exactly what im hoping can be created using a RIFT!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEFfp2QhHZU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnh1m7mmlyE[/youtube]

edit: found a youtube version (and an extra one from ford Australia!)

[mAchiNE]

The question still remains how you will track the hmd without interference from the motion platform. In other words avoid the bumps and shakes to be translated into head movement. So far I can only think of trackir type of tracker that stays relative to the platform and tracks your head. In that area, your screen setup has the obvious edge.
Here is a demonstration of Leap Motion for anyone who has not seen it. If you look at that point cloud hand, you can see how well your hands can be tracked with existing technology.
Its even cheap!

People have tried mounting IMUs to the motion platform and cancelling out the movement on the headset side, but you really do end up needing a TrackIR like setup. There is a problem, though: The sways you get from a motion platform do not match the sways you get in real life! Because the simulator is actually moving in space, there will always be discrepancies. Unless, of course, you are moving the platform in a way that puts your head at the center of rotation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think tracking the HMD without interference from the motion platform should be possible if using a magnetic tracker like the Razer Hydra, by mounting the Magnetic base station on the motion platform at the top of the seat (behind or on top of the head rest). By having the base so close to the tracker (so both the base and tracker are as close to the same distance from each pivoting axis as is possible) this will minimize the amplified movement caused by the sways motion, all we need for tracking the head movement is a relative point of reference that moves with the platform minus any additional interference cause by sways and I think doing it this way should accomplish this.

Hope this helps


@Namielus
Love you designs, nice work! would love to try something like that with the Rift and a game like Star Citizen when it comes out! would be amazing

@mayaman
Awesome setup! I'd love to try out a DBox setup like yours but unfortunately getting one to New Zealand would be very expensive, so for me I'll have to stick to my obutto cockpit and Buttkicker the "poor mans" racing sim setup (although most people I know think I'm a little crazy for buying the setup I have as it seems expensive to them)

For anyone who has not tried any of this stuff out and can't afford (for money or space) a proper motion setup I'd definitely recommend getting a tactile transducer like the buttkicker because its very versatile and requires no driver to make it work (runs off the bass channel of a 5.1 sound card), and it adds a great deal of immersion to any game or sim (if setup right can add the feeling of rumble strips crashes etc in racing sims/games also works great in FPS for simulating the feeling of explosions etc) it is by far the most universal VR type device I have, and not to expensive either.

[alloy]

Here i have another interesting motion sim device for you guys to look at.

Beware though volume down extremely campy video coming up.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3F1kBHlqU[/youtube]

Looks even more simple to replicate dont know bout the immersion factor though.

[WiredEarp]

I'd definitely recommend getting a tactile transducer like the buttkicker because its very versatile and requires no driver to make it work

I second this, I have one strapped under my other chair, and when I fire the chaingun in Comanche, I can feel it fire through my seat which adds immersion significantly.

One other thing that is an easy immersion adder, is to push your subwoofer against your foot pedals. This means that vibration from the sub feeds through the pedals, giving you a much greater sense of being in a real vehicle.

[tahustvedt]

I have a not-moving sim-racing cockpit too ( http://www.thewayiplay.com/mainforum/in ... pic=1887.0 ) and a rift coming, hoping to see some support for it in the next months (but I'm not too positive on that).

I always wanted to build a motion platform, but I was looking to something pivoted above the head, to realistically reproduce head movements, something that standard designs (with the actuators that actually lift the platform from below) cannot accomplish.

I was captured by this genius design, which makes intelligent use of rails to actually move the pivot point above the head, with limited space requirements and not too complicated build. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZhAECb ... e=youtu.be

That's a fantastic design! It looks to me like the pivot is just a tad too far forward to be accurate, but one of the best designs I've seen. I wonder what motors he's using for it... looks to be pretty powerful!

That's my rig. The problem with placing the pivot point farther back is that it becomes very unbalanced due to the heavy monitors, steering wheel and metal pedals (and my legs). The way it is now I have a powerful "linear" pneumatic spring system underneath to provide a constant forward force on the sim, to relieve the pitch servo. It's a compromise as it is now, but it works pretty well. The pivot center can be moved up and down by changing the angle of the rails.

It should be used in complete darkness, of course, to fool the brain into sensing the weak G-forces. It's effectiveness in simulating G-forces is extremely apparent if I turn off the motion while driving. Everything feels really weird as my body expects forces that never arrive.

The project has been standing still during the summer as I'm an active cyclist, but I'm about to start working on it again. I plan to make new servos, possibly using ball screws or a chain drive, to reduce noise and improve precision. I also plan to make a DIY Rift this winter to hopefully be able to replace the monitors.

Here's the last video I made of it (pedal view drifts out of sync), with the lights on to show it properly: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT61BFrRL-M[/youtube]

[android78]

All I can say is that it's an absolutely awesome system, especially for a home-made one! Just wondering if you've tried shifting your position relative to the pivot point, and how much difference you find this makes to the feeling of realism you get?

[PalmerTech]

That's my rig. The problem with placing the pivot point farther back is that it becomes very unbalanced due to the heavy monitors, steering wheel and metal pedals (and my legs). The way it is now I have a powerful "linear" pneumatic spring system underneath to provide a constant forward force on the sim, to relieve the pitch servo. It's a compromise as it is now, but it works pretty well. The pivot center can be moved up and down by changing the angle of the rails.

It should be used in complete darkness, of course, to fool the brain into sensing the weak G-forces. It's effectiveness in simulating G-forces is extremely apparent if I turn off the motion while driving. Everything feels really weird as my body expects forces that never arrive.

The project has been standing still during the summer as I'm an active cyclist, but I'm about to start working on it again. I plan to make new servos, possibly using ball screws or a chain drive, to reduce noise and improve precision. I also plan to make a DIY Rift this winter to hopefully be able to replace the monitors.

Very sweet rig! If you were able to remove the monitors and use a head mounted display instead, would the weight reduction be enough to move the pivot point to a more accurate point, or are your legs/wheel/pedals that heavy?

[tahustvedt]

The vertical line from the pivot center is currently only about 15 cm in front of the center of my head though, so it's already pretty close. I don't think I have tried shifting myself forward and back, but the seat is adjustable to accomodate for different height people. I'm not sure if I can go all the way without monitors, but I will test it later on and see how much I can reduce the pressure of my pneumatic spring system to keep it level without the servo to hold it. The spring currently helps the servo with a forward force of 36 kgf.

Each axis on my sim is adjustable by changing the angle of the rails through three steps. In the flattest angle the pivot point is 80 cm above my ear height, and I get less rotation, but more acceleration of the head area. With the most angle on the rails the pivot is about 30 cm below my ear height, somewhere in my torso. I think this setting is useful for flight simulation as it gives a lot of rotation, but I think it puts a higher load on the components with aggressive racing forces compared to flatter rail angles, and it makes me sick. I usually run with the rails in the middle position which puts the pivot at a height right above my head, so no part of my body moves in the wrong direction when I brake/accelerate/turn, but I still get enough rotation to feel sustained forces.

[Namielus]

Where in Norway are you located? Råde?

[tahustvedt]

I live in the north, in Målselv.

[Namielus]

Ouch thats far. Would love to have a VR meetup in norway, but I am located in Trondheim.
Really loving your setup.