Meant to be Seen

I posted some videos I've taken while flying my Parrot ArDrone in the Sony HMZ thread and Okta showed some interest in it so i thought i post a thread about it.

The Parrot ARDrone was originally designed to use with a iPhone (There are some augmented reality games for it, pretty cool, you can shoot missiles that are rendered in the camera view and the drone can track other drones using colors so it knows if it was a hit or not) but thanks to the open API there are several other platforms it currently works for, I bought mine a year ago and there wasn't any good PC software around so i made my own in .NET with WPF.

What you need

1) A drone http://ardrone.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2) Long range adapter the best one is Alfa Networks AWUS036H (It has to be this exact model for best range)
3) A good joystick
4) A laptop with HDMI output if you want to use the Sony HMZ
5) My software (Or use the other crappy alternatives )

My software isnt released public yet (I can give it out on requests)

Here are a few clips i made of it

Some precision flying that im proud of
[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4SYWWlMmTk[/youtube-hd]

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfXUOkdCNac[/youtube-hd]

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc7PWcSW_WA[/youtube-hd]

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aK_2km75a8&[/youtube-hd]

One of my height records, also beautiful view of the Stockholm archipelago
[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxne1BG15pg[/youtube-hd]

A alternative fighter hud version I did for my software
[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcj24nDm ... ature=plcp[/youtube-hd]

I don't look at this section of mtbs3d too much but this is cool!

Likay wrote:I don't look at this section of mtbs3d too much but this is cool!

This is the only section I look at :p

This discussion should be keept at VR and AR
For exmaple how i should create a beam splitter for the drone camera

Aphradonis wrote:

Likay wrote:I don't look at this section of mtbs3d too much but this is cool!

This is the only section I look at :p

Sorry. I did not mean to be offensive.

CyberVillain wrote:This discussion should be keept at VR and AR
For exmaple how i should create a beam splitter for the drone camera

Great idea! Even greater: Get another drone and sync them to operate in the exact same way in the air while maintaining a precise distance from each other. Those hyperstereophotos/videos would be something!
Dunno how much you're into such budget though.
Anyway: The videos are cool and i appreciate you sharing them.

CyberVillain wrote:This discussion should be keept at VR and AR
For exmaple how i should create a beam splitter for the drone camera

Well, what I'm working on for an RC plane is actually using two micro cameras, two 5.8GHz video transmitters/receivers and a HMD that will have two control boards, one for each eye micro-display.
The 5.8GHz video transmitters have 8 select-able channels, so I'm hoping that I can select two that have little interference and that won't interfere with each other.

For those curious about the hardware that I've ordered:
- 2 * http://www.foxtechfpv.com/rx5808-58g-8c ... p-303.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- 2 * http://www.foxtechfpv.com/tx5823-200mw- ... p-272.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- 2 * http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... AQ:US:1123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These I will be putting in a Trimersion HMD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yqVChaRBsQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, that is the plan. I think for the FPV this is the easiest way to do the stereoscopic thing. It's difficult to sync the cameras for doing an interlaced or side-by-side solution.

Good one! I've had the same idea. I have both the Foxtech gear, and the AirWave stuff. There are a few 3D FPV setups out there already, IMHO it will add heaps of immersion!

WiredEarp wrote:Good one! I've had the same idea. I have both the Foxtech gear, and the AirWave stuff. There are a few 3D FPV setups out there already, IMHO it will add heaps of immersion!

We'll see how it goes.
I do have some concern with how much separation I will need between the cameras for it to work well since I would like to include head tracking, but should be fun crashing in the meantime.

Funnily enough, I think convergence is possibly the more important setting sometimes. I was very surprised that my friends 3D cellphone, which has the camera lenses virtually next to each other (about an inch of separation) took such good 3D photos.
This however may now work so well for long range FPV 3D. Some sort of auto convergence system using a rangefinder or someting could possibly help...

For FPV, having the convergence set to somewhere very close to infinity/parallel will almost certainly be best.

PalmerTech wrote:For FPV, having the convergence set to somewhere very close to infinity/parallel will almost certainly be best.

Sounds crazy, the convergence is always were you look at in reality (Until a certain point were get so close that the eyes/brain cant converge and you see double)...

True, but with FPV, most things are a good distance away. Very rarely will things come closer than a few feet, and if you have any kind of decent convergence, most far away objects will be crossed.

Cameras in stereoconfigs should be straight parallell because the camera captures the scene. You choose what to look at and thereby adjust your own convergence.

Likay wrote:Cameras in stereoconfigs should be straight parallell because the camera captures the scene. You choose what to look at and thereby adjust your own convergence.

Well, the converge is hardcoded into the steroscopic feed if your cameras are fixed.. It would be really cool if you could have seperate Yaw servos for each camera and then make center of the screen were they converge

edit: For the same reason it would be reallt cool if HMDs had eye tracking and sent the info to the stereo drivers

The drone is cool. Wanted to buy one but it's quite expensive. How durable is the quadrocopter?

Exactly CyberVillain!

This would be great for HMD's as you point out, as that way you're getting a similar workout for your eyes as you would in reality. Should go some way to eliminating eyestrain.

Also, if you had a eye tracking insert, you could use a micro projector to project a high res image into the centre of your view, and use very low res for everything else to provide a wide FOV - just like our eyes currently work (seeing as we can only resolve fine detail with a small part of our eyes).

I like the look of the Parrot UI you whipped up, artificial horizon is cool . The video not having any static (unlike mine) is pretty nice as well, although mine is much faster/lag free. Guess thats the tradeoff you get with digital vs analog video broadcasting.

CyberVillain wrote:

Likay wrote:Cameras in stereoconfigs should be straight parallell because the camera captures the scene. You choose what to look at and thereby adjust your own convergence.

Well, the converge is hardcoded into the steroscopic feed if your cameras are fixed.. It would be really cool if you could have seperate Yaw servos for each camera and then make center of the screen were they converge

edit: For the same reason it would be reallt cool if HMDs had eye tracking and sent the info to the stereo drivers

I agree with Likay here, the cameras should be parallel. The eye tracking would only have a purpose if the displays that you are looking at in the HMD also moved as your eyes moved. Head tracking makes sense since the displays move as you move your head.
Rather then changing the direction the cameras are pointing, an offset in the lens of the cameras to adjust convergence makes more sense to me. This way, if you're looking at a square wall in front of you, the top will remain horizontal, the sides will remain vertical, rather then a parallelogram if you were to point the cameras closer together.

.

This is very cool. I've wanted to do this myself, probably will if I ever find the time. The guys at work have been playing around with these RC helicopters, I might get one myself. They are surprising agile, very easy to control and do all sorts of maneuvers. Hopefully its possible to mount some cameras on them, not sure how much weight they can take.

Anyway, great job. Love the HUD you made.

cybereality wrote:This is very cool. I've wanted to do this myself, probably will if I ever find the time. The guys at work have been playing around with these RC helicopters, I might get one myself. They are surprising agile, very easy to control and do all sorts of maneuvers. Hopefully its possible to mount some cameras on them, not sure how much weight they can take.

Anyway, great job. Love the HUD you made.

The small coaxial or single rotor ones can't take much weight at all. There have been a lot of people having luck with the 250 or 450 size, but the best heli form seems to be the tri or quad-copters since they add a lot of stability.
I'm more interested in the planes though.
BTW... http://www.rcgroups.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is a second love of mine.

Thanks guys.. the HUD is really, really simple todo with WPF.. Since everything is bindable in WPF even rotation and translation on a image. Glad you liked it

There are alot of downtrades with digital transmition over analog, like range to start with.. My friend has a tricopter with 5.8 Ghz video, no headtracking though.. But he uses two cameras, one CMOS for FPV and one GoPro for HD recording... The CMOS camera is really good in low light condition hs you can see from my evening clips (The Ardrone uses a CMos camera similar to the ones in custom FPV, the difference is that is decodes the image to a h264 stream and sends it over WLAN)

The ArDrone is a good startkit, its pretty rough and the spare parts are cheap but you quickly want to advance to the bigger stuff

android78 wrote:The eye tracking would only have a purpose if the displays that you are looking at in the HMD also moved as your eyes moved.

Hmm, if the HMD tracked the eyes, and sent the info the game / driver could set the correct convergence (And even focus if thats desirable), or am i missing something?

But yeah, a moving display would be cool, but the eyes have the fastest muzzles and they move 100 times a second, so i do not think you can move the actual display, would you could do is have a display with higher res then you actually use at a given point.. THen when you move the eyes a micorcontroller moves the image on the display...

android78 wrote: BTW... http://www.rcgroups.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is a second love of mine.

Same here. I'm active in the FPV and Mulirotor forums!

Hmm, good point re eye moving speed, it could be hard to keep up with that, unless you had some sort of prism/mirror system that would be able to pan that quickly.

Multirotor has a lot of advantages over single. Did you guys see that team that built like a 20+ multirotor, had a chair for the guy to sit on, and he flew himself around the garden?

I've wondered about cellphone links for the digital video transmission. Are modern cellphone data connections fast enough to send the imagery? If so, you could make a drone that could basically transmit from almost unlimited distances...

Otherwise, analogue is where it is at for long range FPV... quite a few people have GoPros (I think this is the brand) with the TV out of the GoPro hooked up to the transmitter, so the GoPro records in high quality, and you fly in analogue quality.

I actually wrote a little program for my android phone that forwarded all packets from the internet to the drone and vice versa, the problem is that most of the data is sent FROM the drone and current upload speeds on mobile broadbands are too slow... i tried with 3g but it might work with 4g...

My friend uses two cameras because the gopro isnt very good in low light conditions, a cmos camera is better for that....

Anyway, i will upload a movie when i got my drone connected too my HMZ if and when sony can deliver it to me!

Yep, a lot of the cameras for FPV have special brightness settings that dim only 1/2 the screen etc so you can fly into the sun without losing contrast etc.

oh, thx Likay et all for the advice about just putting 3D cameras in parallel and not worrying about convergence. I did wonder if this was the best setting since most FPV is fairly high up, and your eyes go parallel after a certain range. For a RC car or something like that, it could be interesting to play with auto convergence sometime.

WiredEarp wrote:Yep, a lot of the cameras for FPV have special brightness settings that dim only 1/2 the screen etc so you can fly into the sun without losing contrast etc.

oh, thx Likay et all for the advice about just putting 3D cameras in parallel and not worrying about convergence. I did wonder if this was the best setting since most FPV is fairly high up, and your eyes go parallel after a certain range. For a RC car or something like that, it could be interesting to play with auto convergence sometime.

With a Quadrocopter its more fun to fly low actually, I love sniffing the ground

Hi there,

I'm really keen to buy one of these and have been looking into it. I found this on ebay, is this your auction? Looks like the same HUD, and your house! Thought I'd let you know someone might be selling your software.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AR-DRONE-NEW- ... 19cd12edfc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hoping I can get a legit copy, when I get hold of my flying beastie!

Cheers,
Lance

Wow, this is a big day for me, first time any software by me is pirated

Filed a report with ebay.. But still.. this is very funny..

Not so funny, this seller has been selling my property for a long time..I do not like that others are making money off my freetime projects :/

bugsquish, I must thank you for these findings.. Its not ok to live of other peoples work :/

Not so funny, this seller has been selling my property for a long time..I do not like that others are making money off my freetime projects :/

Flattering, and good validation for your coding abilities, but I hate people who do stuff like this myself.

Probably the best thing you can do (besides filing a report, where it may be difficult to prove you are the actual author), you should list your own software yourself, for 1/2 the price he's listing it for, under the same/similar title. Throw in some quick 'improvements', and when you do, put some time decay stuff in there maybe. That way, when he rips off your new version, his users will end up suffering, and post bad feedback about him Not to mention the fact that for 1/2 the price, you'll probably steal most of his buyers from him, and you might even make some cash!

I assume you have 'about' pages etc, I wonder if this guy has edited those to show himself as the author or what... might give you an idea of his ripping expertise if you knew that.

No problem, I'm glad I could help. Hope you manage to get it sorted out.

On a lighter note, I have ordered my drone! Should have it next week. So it's okay to get a copy of your software? I promise not to sell it on I'm going to be using my android phone to fly it mainly, but am really interested in experimenting with the laptop and longer ranges. Would I be able to use an xbox 360 controller with your setup? Any advice or tips are welcome!

Cheers,
Lance

No problem, or you can buy it on ebay
If it comes up under game devices it should work in my software, it uses DirectX for input.. But in my experience a gamepad is a bit too lowend to fly accurately.. a joystick gives you better precision

Hahaha! That eBay auction is Comedy Gold!!!!! LOL!

@ CyberReality:

a joystick gives you better precision

Agreed. What joystick do you use? Because I'd like to hype my one, just because it just doesn't get enough love or attention online.

I have a Thrustmaster T16000M, and its easily the best joystick i've EVER owned. It has hall effect sensors rather than potentiometers, which gives MUCH greater accuracy and no drift. I've relegated my old Saiteks and Logitech to the spare PC's now. The best thing is, its a budget joystick, and it also supports left handers (whoever designed it is a genius, it comes with all these parts to swap it from right handed to left handed mode).

Only problem with it, is it just doesn't have enough buttons on the stick for easy use with games like BlackShark - but in terms of precision, its amazing. Previously in Bf2, I used to have to do a bit of moving the stick about to hold a particular hover. Now, I just hold the stick at the right point/angle and my heli sits there without almost any movement. I cannot recommend this joystick enough to modders, since even if you take it apart, the hall effect sensors and interface board etc alone are worth the price.

CyberVillain wrote:Filed a report with ebay.. But still.. this is very funny..

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI ... world=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check the feedback he has sold a lot of those at $15 a piece. I would be fuming. Hopefully he gets funds frozen and booted.

Okta wrote:

CyberVillain wrote:Filed a report with ebay.. But still.. this is very funny..

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI ... world=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check the feedback he has sold a lot of those at $15 a piece. I would be fuming. Hopefully he gets funds frozen and booted.

I've reported him, but ebay have yet to get in touch with me..

Wired:
I have two joysticks, a Thrustmaster hotas which is REALLY nice, but heavy and not good for mobility, but i brig it when I have a car to take me were im going.. For mobility i have the Saitek FLY 5, its ok but nothing tlike The thrustmaster

Nice, the HOTAS is a great stick. I'd love to buy the HOTAS Warthog, but its right hand only . The T16000M is the only ambidextrous capable joystick I know of that has their hall effect sensors.