Cinemizer OLED

Post by **powerjosl** » Fri May 27, 2011 6:51 am

Hey everyone,
I just found this survey from Carl Zeiss that was posted on the Cinemizer Facebook page.

http://www.gfk.com/video-eyewear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like it will be a bit longer till this thing get's released, if they are asking for feedback about the final product.
But maybe go ahead and let them know your opinion. Some questions are about the pricing and what you would use it for. I guess they want to work out a proper marketing strategy.
There's also some pictures of the Cinemizer in there that I haven't seen yet. But maybe I'm just not up to date with all that.
Hopefully they get enough feedback and release it soon. It looks really interesting.

Cheers,
Powerjosl

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri May 27, 2011 12:54 pm

Hi Powerjosl.
Already filled out, looking forward to this product, however there's no real info about real screen's resolution.
We speculate that them might be 720p, however we will never know until they will be released.
Also, I think built-in head-tracker is must be included for such product!

Post by **bobv5** » Fri May 27, 2011 4:09 pm

Filled it out, don't know how much good it will do.

I always find it odd, when it asks what I would consider too cheap, it wouldn't let me enter $1. I mean, if its cheap enough that I think it might be crap, it would be cheap enough to take a chance on it anyway! Really shows the mind of the marketing people. (Always kills me inside a little that many, (perhaps most?) people actually think that way, but that’s the subject of a different post...) The real problem is that if it is $500 I will still expect it to be a bit crap. And this is coming from someone that really likes hmd's.

Post by **powerjosl** » Fri May 27, 2011 5:31 pm

If it is true 720p, I would spend up to $600. Anything above is too much for me. I only want to use it for gaming, so spending more than that, is just crazy.

In the survey they asked for the ability to attach a head tracker. Having that option would be nice. That way you can get a trackIR, or if they offer their own, go for that.

Post by **cybereality** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:20 pm

Thanks for posting this, I filled it out. However, the line of questioning leads me to believe it won't come out this summer. It sounds to me that Zeiss is not even sure they are going to release it at all. For example, this question:

How believable do you think the CinemizerOLED is? By that, we mean how likely you think it is that the CinemizerOLED could actually be available and working in the next 12 months.

That doesn't sound like a question you ask after you've already ramped up production on a product. So this could very much be vaporware (as some people here have suspected). Hopefully the market is big enough for it to be worth it for them. If they can make it affordable, like around $300, then I will certainly get one. If its too much, I may have to pass, as I already plan on getting the Vuzix 1200VR. If it is really 720P, then I may just get it anyway. Who knows at this point?

Oh, and I did like the question they asked about using a model plane with a camera and streaming the video to the glasses. I really want to try that one day.

Post by **powerjosl** » Sun May 29, 2011 5:41 am

but they already released two cinemizer products that were quite successful, I don't see why they shouldn't release the cinemizer oled.

as for the price, I think around $500 should be realistic. they market this as a device that could replace a big ass lcd tv. and those are around the same price.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Sun May 29, 2011 7:10 am

powerjosl wrote:as for the price, I think around $500 should be realistic. they market this as a device that could replace a big ass lcd tv. and those are around the same price.

OMG, I wish it was true, but if true 720p OLED HMD will be released for 1000$ this will be actually cheap.
HMD is always will cost more than big ass TV, it's obvious.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun May 29, 2011 8:24 am

$1,000 is just too much for the consumer market. I don't think people will accept anything higher than $699, and even then it probably won't sell many units. They should make it $399, if possible. I think that was around how much VR920 released at, and the Z800 was maybe $499. Make it reasonable and more people will buy it.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Sun May 29, 2011 8:27 am

cybereality wrote:$1,000 is just too much for the consumer market. I don't think people will accept anything higher than $699, and even then it probably won't sell many units. They should make it $399, if possible. I think that was around how much VR920 released at, and the Z800 was maybe $499. Make it reasonable and more people will buy it.

I agree, and if they will make it around 500$ - this will be killer HMD, and many people will buy it.
But, from real-life perspective, currently, for 1000$ you can't buy anything close to real 720p, OLED now.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun May 29, 2011 8:30 am

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote: But, from real-life perspective, currently, for 1000$ you can't buy anything close to real 720p, OLED now.

I'm not sure its even 100% confirmed this HMD is 720P. I really hope it is.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Sun May 29, 2011 8:39 am

cybereality wrote:
Johnny-Mnemonic wrote: But, from real-life perspective, currently, for 1000$ you can't buy anything close to real 720p, OLED now.
I'm not sure its even 100% confirmed this HMD is 720P. I really hope it is.

Yeah, there is no official info on 720p, this can be 852 x 480 as well.

Post by **Synexious** » Tue May 31, 2011 5:14 am

Why can't a midrange be created for enthusiasts? HMDs go from hundreds straight to tens of thousands. An HMD in the thousands would be affordable for enthusiasts. I'd buy a $1000-$5000 HMD if it was excellent. I'd expect 120 degrees or more, and 1080p (90 degrees and 720p for $1000-$1500).

Post by **powerjosl** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:10 am

It would be nice to talk to someone that tried the prototype they had at IFA in Berlin this year. I was there myself, but forgot to look at it.
I'm sure someone that tried it, can tell us if it was 720p.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:13 am

powerjosl wrote:It would be nice to talk to someone that tried the prototype they had at IFA in Berlin this year. I was there myself, but forgot to look at it.
I'm sure someone that tried it, can tell us if it was 720p.

One guy who tried tell that it looked better than 640x480, but even 852x480 will give better than 640x480 picture. Improvements in optics also matter.
Even if prototype had true 720p, released consumer version can still receive lower-rez screens.

Post by **Fredz** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:18 am

Since 640x480 and 852x480 have exactly the same number of lines, I'm not sure the latter would look that much better, not enough for testers to say that it was much better than 640x480 I think. But that could also be 800x600 or 1024x600, we'll have to wait to be sure anyway.

Post by **3dvison** » Tue May 31, 2011 11:51 am

Fredz wrote:Since 640x480 and 852x480 have exactly the same number of lines, I'm not sure the latter would look that much better, not enough for testers to say that it was much better than 640x480 I think.

I have a feeling that the extra 200 lines in horz. resolution of 852 will make a bigger diffrence over the old 640 Horz. resolution than we might think.

I know it is a different beast but there are small projectors on the market that have 852x480 resolution that scale to higher resolutions much better than the older 640x480 projectors could.

Post by **cybereality** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:57 pm

Even at 852x480, with a nice scaler it could probably look alright. I do still hope its 720P, though.

Post by **ShawmK** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:24 am

Hi, everyone - I've been following this forum for awhile; finally joined.

Even if the new Cinemizer has a resolution of 852x480, an OLED display should look better than the Vuzix LCD display, and that alone makes it an exciting option. Since the LCDs are so directional, it's hard to get the contrast adjusted across the left and right displays. OLED should solve that problem.

I have both the Cinemizer Plus and the Wrap 920 (and about half a dozen other HMDs - sad, I know); both have good and bad points, but I find I use the Vuzix most often, on balance. But if the new Cinemizer really has HDMI and VGA as well as OLED screens (and if it really comes out at all) it could well be the ideal HMD - you never know!

Great forum!

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:05 pm

Hey! Welcome to the forum. Please stick around. Lots of information around here.

Post by **powerjosl** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:51 am

cinemizer guys just posted there pictures on their facebook page. interesting idea to have a steady cam operator wearing those. but makes allot of sense in combination with a 3d camera.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:28 pm

HhaahahAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry. Those pictures are just too funny (especially that last one).

Jokes aside, I would want something like this. It be pretty cool.

Post by **ShawmK** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:14 am

The more information we get about these new Cinemizers, the better they sound.

If that Panasonic camera is feeding a 3D image directly to the glasses, that means an HDMI port that can handle 3D (HD) video. If Zeiss can bring these out before the end of the year, I have a feeling they will blow Vuzix out of the water - unless they are insanely expensive.

(I would love to see the footage that guy shot with his rig!)

Post by **Unclebob** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:50 am

Its no fun waiting...

Have filled out their marketing form.

Looks like its a price point determining exercise as well as a demand determining exercise.

Worth filling in.

Here is hoping for an earlier release.

Peter

Post by **Syntax** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:34 am

Hey there
I m very excited, as everyone on this forum, about the new Cinemizer OLED.
Recently I ve watched a demonstration video on youtube.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUvk8E8j_SY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
The intresting part was not the video other then the discription attached to it.
It contained some info about the specs and prices point about this product:

---->
Carl Zeiss' new 2011 Cinemizer 3D-capable video eyeglasses are a must have BIG 55 inch OLED TV 3D in your pocket !

2 x 1280x720 pixels OLED Hight-Definition
Widescreen 16:9 for REAL MOVIES EJOYMENT
3D Bluray compatible with HDMI 1.4 input in the Glasses
Headtracking for games !
Compatible with iphone , ipod , ipad , computer , dvd , bluray 3D
Autonomy of the battery 4 hours
Price 515$ US summer 2011

SO my question is can this Info be true or not coz 2 x 1280x720 pixels OLED Hight-Definition Displays for 515 bucks is way off the standart price-segment for other hmds/companys.

I just want to put this in the room.
Tell me what you think.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:23 am

This isn't official Carl Zeiss channel, so info in description can be same rumor as we already have.

Post by **ShawmK** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:30 am

I'm not sure where this information has come from; Zeiss haven't posted any concrete details on the Cinemizer website or on the Facebook page. We know it will be widescreen, we know it will have HDMI and VGA connections and we know it will have a headtracker, but from what I've seen, they haven't been more specific than that.

I don't think Zeiss have confirmed the resolution, or the HDMI 1.4 connection - or the price and release date.

If it is released in the summer, that would be fantastic. I would love to be forced to choose between the Cinemizer and the Vuzix - these should be our biggest problems!

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:35 am

I wonder why they are not bother to make wider FOV. I mean 32-35 (in case of Vuzix) cannot be seriously called improvement. I think in limits of 60 FOV they already can make such optics, at least 45 they can make for sure.

Post by **ShawmK** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:18 am

My guess is that a larger field of view would mean using larger displays, which would mean a bulkier headset, or using more expensive lenses, which would push the retail price too high.

If more companies were to develop consumer-level HMDs, it would probably bring down the cost of the components. Very high quality headphones are affordable today because everybody uses headphones. Not everybody uses HMDs, sadly...

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:22 am

I know that, but I'm sure they can do 45 degree FOV without sacrificing in a price tag, it's not that lens are so much bulkier or different if it goes from 32 to 45. Yes, for 100 degree FOV you need bulky headset, but 45 can be made in same form factor as 32-35.

Take a look at FatShark HMD, with almost the same form factor as iWear VR920 they have reached 46 degree FOV.
Why this didn't bother Vuzix and Cinemizer.

There are mentions that new version of FatShark HMD also have no distortions on the edges, so optics is pretty fine.

Post by **ShawmK** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:46 am

A 45 degree OLED set would be amazing. If the new Cinemizer does well, maybe they will produce one! If anyone can make high-quality lenses, it's Zeiss.

Does the FatShark display 3D? I've never had a chance to try one, but I've always been curious.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:50 am

ShawmK wrote:Does the FatShark display 3D? I've never had a chance to try one, but I've always been curious.

No, it's 2D, and it was made for FPV in aircraft and car modeling, they also can be used with composite analog video signal, no computer standards (like VGA) supported. But, they aim big FOV!

I hope Zeiss will look in that direction too.

Post by **ShawmK** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:13 am

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote: I hope Zeiss will look in that direction too.

Fingers crossed!

I used to use the Olympus Eye-Trek 250w, which had an FOV of about 42 degrees (widescreen) and had a wonderful image, although the resolution was very low by modern standards. I would love to see something similar on the market today!

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:28 pm

Hdmi 1.4 is confirmed. They showed off the headset playing 3d PS3 games.

Not sure why they can't go higher with the Fov. 35 degrees is just not gonna cut it in 2011.

Post by **ancjob** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:31 am

cybereality wrote:Hdmi 1.4 is confirmed. They showed off the headset playing 3d PS3 games.

Not sure why they can't go higher with the Fov. 35 degrees is just not gonna cut it in 2011.

that's why emagin asks for a cool US1800 for the '2D' [their 3D is woth the name sake only] emagin 3dvisor as they are the only ones with 800x600 and 40 FOV - undisputed !...and also the 'optics' are great!....you put them on for hrs at a stretch no strain at all....however images are not Sharp , low contrast and brightness and low power does not compensate for it...but they are still undisputed to this day....

No company has the guts to challenge Emagin....be it Vuzix ,cinemizer or Sony [their glasstron was a NOT a success so they being wary!]

So emagin 'd stay undisputed for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time...

i guess Vuzix wrap1200 does fillin the void not entirely but that's what you get...

Post by **NumberSix** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:50 am

Cinemizer OLED and iRacing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D5fHi ... jT3qL-UEsQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:40 am

Thanks for sharing the video. Seems the guy that made it claims they are 720P, which is as close to a confirmation as we have so far.

Post by **rektide** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:57 pm

the POV people have their hopes set far too high. the press info out there is 45" at 6'. that's not going create a feeling of being engulfed.

let'**** the math. let's say that's 40" wide, or 3.33 feet (it's not, but let's be generous). 2*pi*r is 33.42' circumference. 3.33/ 33.42 * 360 is 36 degrees.

Post by **nrp** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:04 am

rektide wrote:the POV people have their hopes set far too high. the press info out there is 45" at 6'. that's not going create a feeling of being engulfed.

let'**** the math. let's say that's 40" wide, or 3.33 feet (it's not, but let's be generous). 2*pi*r is 33.42' circumference. 3.33/ 33.42 * 360 is 36 degrees.

If nothing else, it is a pair of mass produced tiny 720p displays interfaced to HDMI. It could be worthwhile for use with custom optics.

Post by **ancjob** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:11 pm

nrp wrote:
rektide wrote:the POV people have their hopes set far too high. the press info out there is 45" at 6'. that's not going create a feeling of being engulfed.

let'**** the math. let's say that's 40" wide, or 3.33 feet (it's not, but let's be generous). 2*pi*r is 33.42' circumference. 3.33/ 33.42 * 360 is 36 degrees.
If nothing else, it is a pair of mass produced tiny 720p displays interfaced to HDMI. It could be worthwhile for use with custom optics.

at least cinemizer is thinking out of the box....to make an almost HD HMD with HDMI input which so far even the vuzix has not ventured into...with all that jazz abt wrap 1200 / wrap 1200VR....

it's sad to know that fatshark can give 46 FOV with kopin VGA screens aka washed out colors and the rest [vuzix,cinemizer] can't do that with their product...which they claim has better screens than those crappy kopin VGA displays...

Post by **mAchiNE** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Has anyone here actually merged the optics from a fatshark HMD with a VR920 or Wrap920? that could be a good conversion if it is possible

Maybe even something to consider for the Wrap1200VR if the panels in the 1200 are similar size to the 920