New demo HMD from SONY

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:55 am

Sony at CES 2011 just demonstrated they're new personal HMD, which, perhaps, will be released as consumer product.
http://electricpig.co.uk/2011/01/06/son ... ty-reborn/

Good to see they didn't afraid bulky-nerdy-tronish design

Quote from author:

Sony’s Personal Display looks like a virtual reality headset from the early 90s, but inside are twin screens, providing full HD 3D to each eye, with absolutely zero crosstalk, ghosting or other nasty side effects.

I'm pretty sure that this is not Full HD, even top notch research HMD's don't have Full-HD per screen, but anyway it's cool to see movement in HMD development

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:43 pm

For those asking where they sourced the OLED panels from, it looks like Sony might actually be making them on their own, like their current $$,$$$ OLED TVs. If that is the case, the fact that they exist for this prototype is very encouraging towards a consumer product release.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:08 pm

1280 x 720 OLED... Nice... Nice

"Future 3D Head Mounted Display"... We are already waiting for this future for so long, come on, hurry up!

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:52 pm

Ok, now this is exciting. A full 720P OLED headset sounds like it will blow away anything else out there (consumer market, of course). I also like the fact the design is a throwback to some of the kind of stuff that, in the 90's, we would have imagined we would have today. No one seems to be talking about FOV, I wonder if any progress has been made of this front. They do seem to have an IPD adjustment knob, which is a very nice feature. If this comes out supporting HDMI 1.4a, then it could be used with PS3 (which Sony would almost certainly make sure of) and thus also stand-alone 3D Blu-Ray, PC gaming with Nvidia or ATI cards (and thus support of all 3 drivers, just not at the same time). This could be very cool if it actually comes out.

Post by **Chiefwinston** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:48 pm

Yeah thats super cool. I'll take a pair right now.

cheers everyone

Post by **tritosine5G** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:16 am

A full 720P OLED headset sounds like it will blow away anything else out there (consumer market, of course).

this is entry level on the long run, because of subpixels.
http://www.sidchapters.org/texas/TX_Cha ... OMORI).pdf

MEMS imaging device like the one in apple patent, or that thing above has no subpixels.

Subpixel HMD = better be cheap, or its just another gimmick by sony. (5.1 suggests it will be a gimmick

).

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:38 pm

Subpixel HMD = better be cheap, or its just another gimmick by sony.

Didn't get what you mean by that statement...

Post by **Zerofool** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:51 pm

tritosine wrote:
A full 720P OLED headset sounds like it will blow away anything else out there (consumer market, of course).
this is entry level on the long run, because of subpixels.
http://www.sidchapters.org/texas/TX_Cha ... OMORI).pdf

MEMS imaging device like the one in apple patent, or that thing above has no subpixels.

Subpixel HMD = better be cheap, or its just another gimmick by sony. (5.1 suggests it will be a gimmick ).

This Sony prototype is using OLED displays with real 1280x720 resolution, it has nothing to do with MEMS and wobulation (if that's what you meant).

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:32 pm

Well its still 720P, sub-pixels or not. I use the Vuzix Wrap 310 almost daily, and the resolution is only 428 x 240. Even so, I can barely see individual pixels. I don't see why this is such a big problem all of a sudden.

Post by **tritosine5G** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:47 pm

Apple patent = MEMS HMD without subpixels
"Surgeon grade" HMD = OCB LCD without subpixels

I'm sure a "subpixel-free" display is pretty much a criteria for professional HMD.

Check:

http://www.displaymate.com/ShootOut_Comparison.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

subpixel displays get consequently "B" , whereas the each of other kind is "A". Yes , even the DLP colorwheel got A .

Bottomline is :
As awkward as the apple patent looks , its daaamn clever.

Post by **Likay** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:23 pm

You do realize that subpixels are a third of the area of an entire pixel right? Means they should be a lot harder to see than an entire pixel as well.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:52 am

Subpixel displays are not an issue if you have high enough pixel density. There is a reason that even in these modern times, many photo editors and others in need of great image quality use CRT monitors, which rely on what are effectively subpixels.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:58 am

PalmerTech wrote:Subpixel displays are not an issue if you have high enough pixel density.

True. Just look at the iPhone "retina display". Can't see no sub-pixels there. In fact, you can barely even make out individual pixels at all.

Post by **bobv5** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:21 pm

Surgeon grade maybe.
Everything else, even pro stuff, who cares?

Post by **ancjob** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:58 pm

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:1280 x 720 OLED... Nice... Nice
"Future 3D Head Mounted Display"... We are already waiting for this future for so long, come on, hurry up!

Oh really ! - i'd not be too happy as they will never make to consumer market and even if these do - for a US10k - i will skip...
just like the cinemizer OLED ot the TDvisor - these meet their nemesis in the labs ro made for research only with price tags to match that of luxury cars...

Post by **DieKatzchen** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:25 pm

ancjob wrote:Oh really ! - i'd not be too happy as they will never make to consumer market and even if these do - for a US10k - i will skip...
just like the cinemizer OLED ot the TDvisor - these meet their nemesis in the labs ro made for research only with price tags to match that of luxury cars...

The Cinemizer OLED is priced at $515. A little high but reasonable. Don't be such a Negative Nancy.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:56 am

It has a low FOV, though. And it is not even confirmed 720p.

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:41 pm

Really I am skeptical that the Zeiss is even 720P. If they reached HD resolutions they would be advertising it everywhere.

@PalmerTech: Yeah, its low FOV, but thats par for the course for these consumer headsets.

Post by **Fredz** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:26 pm

They didn't even officialy communicate about the price and the release date, so I'm not surprised they didn't do it for the resolution either. From several reports about 3D expositions I've read, reviewers wild guessed that they were 720p, so I guess they are able to tell the difference between 720p and 480p (which is the resolution of all other models including the VR1200). We'll have to wait to be sure, but they are anyway the only glasses that could be 720p in the forseable future.

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:31 pm

Fredz wrote:We'll have to wait to be sure, but they are anyway the only glasses that could be 720p in the forseable future.

Except these Sony glasses, which we know for a fact are 720P. I also got word from someone at Sony that there is a lot of interest in the company ranks to actually bring this headset to market. But it could just be a rumor. We will see.

Post by **Fredz** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:12 am

I guess it's a rumor since this device is only a prototype, it's even not usable as an HMD since you must use your hands so it stays on your head.

They've demonstrated that they have the technology to produce a real 720p HMD in the future, as they have done with lower res HMD in the past, but how long will we have to wait before they produce something for the consumer market ?

Considering their next portable console won't even be 3D I'm not sure they'll take more risks with HMDs. They've always waited to see if the market was viable before producing something related to 3D (Glasstron 2 years after VFX1, i-glasses and Cybermaxx - Bravia 3D 2 years after Mits, Samsung and Hyundai - PS3 3D 2 years after 3D Vision). I don't see this changing anytime soon.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:24 am

Well I am not expecting this Sony headset to come out soon, or even this year. But it shows they have a certain capability and I doubt they would need much more time with R&D. Obviously the casing is just for show, but they could easy make something practical. I agree though that they will play it safe. The prototype may have just been to test the waters at CES. I mean, I'd probably put down money that it won't actually come out, but who really knows?

Post by **DieKatzchen** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:35 pm

If the cinemizer oled is 720p I'll definitely get one. If it's only 480p... I'll probably still get it instead of the 1200, because it supports HDMI frame-packing out of the box, so I can plug it into my ps3.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:04 pm

Also, not for nothing, but Vuzix did also have a prototype of their own at CES (though it was not widely shown, you had to ask or be in the know). It was a 1280 x 1024 resolution HMD, unknown FOV. But still, thats higher than 720P res. At least we know things are coming in the future.

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:07 am

cybereality wrote:Also, not for nothing, but Vuzix did also have a prototype of their own at CES (though it was not widely shown, you had to ask or be in the know). It was a 1280 x 1024 resolution HMD, unknown FOV. But still, thats higher than 720P res. At least we know things are coming in the future.

how frustating that in 800x600 and for high quality viewing - i do not see any HMD coming close to Headplay....which is even superior to z800[ f**king pricey beast] - spent so much on these...toys

all i want is the headplay quality packed in lightweight sun-glasses style...that's where the void is...

so far headplay is undisputed.......let 's see what wrap1200 does....[i have great expectations that it will at least come close to headplay! if not superior to headplay

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:14 am

DieKatzchen wrote:
ancjob wrote:Oh really ! - i'd not be too happy as they will never make to consumer market and even if these do - for a US10k - i will skip...
just like the cinemizer OLED ot the TDvisor - these meet their nemesis in the labs ro made for research only with price tags to match that of luxury cars...
The Cinemizer OLED is priced at $515. A little high but reasonable. Don't be such a Negative Nancy.

ah! OLEDS - i thought emagin z800 will be the last one but guess what headplay is better than that for both 2D/3D - shocking is not it - that i got to know after being poorer by US$900 - OLEDS just offer great brightness and low power that's it - headplay Vs Emagin z800 is like comparing LCD to CRT TV....
Now i got 800x600 LCD and the OLEDs(z800) - but i go back to LCD[headplay] my favourite

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:54 am

Well I have seen Super-AMOLED on smart-phones (like Samsung Galaxy) and its a huge step up from LCD in pretty much every way. I haven't seen the z800, so I am not sure how good that was. But I think OLED technology has some promise.

Post by **VRgamesterz** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:00 pm

I had the headplay and liked the way it fit but when you blinked your eyes it looked like shutters were closing and opening, it was OK..

I had serveral Z800 when they were for $525, and moded a bunch for crazy Stewart at Cyberworld untill he got someone inside to do my work. For that price they were well worth it, now forget about it!!!

Im just done with HMD's they are all stuck in this 32 to 40 deg funk and can't seem to get out of it. Nothing in our average Joe price range is gonna make me happy, maybe some of you it might but im done untill I hit the Lotto and can get something around 120deg and up.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:08 pm

VRgamesterz wrote: Im just done with HMD's they are all stuck in this 32 to 40 deg funk and can't seem to get out of it. Nothing in our average Joe price range is gonna make me happy, maybe some of you it might but im done until I hit the Lotto and can get something around 120deg and up.

I do agree, but I also want to support the industry. If we don't buy these current-gen devices, then companies like Vuzix will go out of business and then we will have nothing. At least if they are around and continue to produce headsets, eventually they will come up with something decent. In the interm, I plan on building my own HMD, as are other people on this forum. Maybe something will come of that, maybe not. But with the dropping price of projectors it seems building a CAVE is probably more economical then the crazy money some of these companies are charging for "high-end" HMDs.

Post by **tritosine5G** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:39 pm

guys help me

what do you think of

55" 1.5 -2 meter away, how much fov that is ? What was that marketing talk about that zeiss thing? Seemed much much smaller. I can't comprehend the difference.

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:45 pm

cybereality wrote:Well I have seen Super-AMOLED on smart-phones (like Samsung Galaxy) and its a huge step up from LCD in pretty much every way. I haven't seen the z800, so I am not sure how good that was. But I think OLED technology has some promise.

well i thought z800 will be the ultimate HMD on OLEDs with 800x600 what i get is a real bright screen on usb power with such avg colors....
cannot do any divx/xvid with <720x480 [if NOT a DVD] on that looks pixellated and the same looks so cool on headplay - no pixellation LCD as it 'd be
that takes away the joy of owning the 800x600 OLEDs - put it back in the box - taking it out occasionally

However i must admit that optics of z800 are such that they do not strain even for wearing it out for looooooong hrs.. guess only if these had vibrant colors....and more modern inputs....

Come back to my headplay - and i curse myself having wasted my US$900 for that beast[z800]- so no f''''''ing OLEDs for gods sake...for me the magic word OLEDs is gone....

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:35 pm

tritosine wrote: 55" 1.5 -2 meter away, how much fov that is ?

Thats about 32 degrees, same as most headsets (like VR920).

ancjob wrote:so no f''''''ing OLEDs for gods sake...for me the magic word OLEDs is gone....

You have to evaluate each product individually, you don't know what factors play into things. Just because you don't like the look of the Z800, doesn't mean OLED technology is bad. They could have been using cheap parts, a bad hardware scaler, etc. There's no reason an OLED screen can't display a high resolution image (again, as has been shown working on smart-phones). The eMagin screens were absolutely first-generation technology. Similarly, you try one Vuzix headset (which I think was broken) and automatically everything Vuzix makes is crap. Even when myself and other people have told you they work. Just keep an open mind and wait for some reviews to come out. Don't be so quick to make a decision when this stuff hasn't even been released.

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:52 pm

cybereality wrote:
tritosine wrote: 55" 1.5 -2 meter away, how much fov that is ?
Thats about 32 degrees, same as most headsets (like VR920).

ancjob wrote:so no f''''''ing OLEDs for gods sake...for me the magic word OLEDs is gone....
You have to evaluate each product individually, you don't know what factors play into things. Just because you don't like the look of the Z800, doesn't mean OLED technology is bad. They could have been using cheap parts, a bad hardware scaler, etc. There's no reason an OLED screen can't display a high resolution image (again, as has been shown working on smart-phones). The eMagin screens were absolutely first-generation technology. Similarly, you try one Vuzix headset (which I think was broken) and automatically everything Vuzix makes is crap. Even when myself and other people have told you they work. Just keep an open mind and wait for some reviews to come out. Don't be so quick to make a decision when this stuff hasn't even been released.

pal - may be that emagin OLEDs might not be the ultimate...but they have not upgraded the oled screens yet still selling for US1.8k...

just finished watching the dvd on my xtreamer - first i watched it z800 and then headplay....
headplay viewing is simply fabulous - z800 does not even come close - it's just like watching a 'real' LCD

i have heard that they are no more making the headplays - so i will buy one more headplay......
will buy wrap 1200 primarily for f0v=35 with built in support for 3 anaglyph modes....got a lot of anaglyph collection...
so waiting for wrap 1200...as well

Post by **Okta** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:17 pm

You are the only person i have ever read say the Headplay has better picture than the z800.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm

Okta wrote:You are the only person i have ever read say the Headplay has better picture than the z800.

pal - goto amazon.com and chk reviews
i made a mistake not to believe them now being poorer by US$960
yes - pal - the only thing better in z800 is the optics , brightness and usb power that's it but the oleds are NOT impressive...[colors are avg] there goes my craze for OLEDs - will be cautious while considering cinemizer OLEDs

headplay is just oustanding ![weight is the only bummer] and placing it correctly because of the reflective LCD...takes to get used to..
Once it's on - it's real LCD f***s z800 big time...

Can anybody give me the headplay quality in sun-glasses weighing total 80-90g with fov>= 35 then i will quit searching for more HMDs'
all i wanna have is the 800x600 headplay like LCD with fov>=35 2D or 3D included - in sun-glasses style weighing only 89g....or maybe i quit searching for more - just be content with headplay..i guess!

Post by **Okta** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:04 pm

who is pal?

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:05 pm

I have high hope for the VR1200 (or Wrap 1200, if you are not into gaming). I really think that's going to be the best kit for you, dude.

Post by **VRgamesterz** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:11 pm

Yea be content with headplay pal

Post by **ancjob** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:14 am

VRgamesterz wrote:Yea be content with headplay pal

yeah! kinda difficult - i like these toys...spending on them

sony HMD is really nice - hope it will be out soon - looks sci-fi...tempting

Post by **DieKatzchen** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:42 pm

ancjob wrote:
VRgamesterz wrote:Yea be content with headplay pal
yeah! kinda difficult - i like these toys...spending on them
sony HMD is really nice - hope it will be out soon - looks sci-fi...tempting

Yeah, but it's just a prototype. It probably cost, like, $20,000 to make. They were just showing off, it's not a real product.