Carnival of Souls 2D to 3D conversion

[Gae43]

Available for download in August....a side by side clip is now up on YouTube.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrcsE4itGE0[/youtube]



Gae43

[Likay]

(Edited)...
The vid is nice and especially the organscene is very good. Some of the other scenes needs more work i think.

[Gae43]

Yup, that's a conversion all right. And still i'm not convinced that 2d-3d conversions are ready for airing. The organscene looked ok (inspite of the organ chair floating...) but artifacts are all over the place in all other scenes.
Thanks for sharing it.

I guess when you anticipate having to convert 30fps x 60 seconds x 78 minutes = 140,400 seperate images, the occasional stereo window violation occurs. Also, with regards to the artifacts, for copyright reasons, a public domain version has been used and so the print is never going to be perfect.

Sorry to be so defensive, but you see, I'm the creator of this little project.

Gae43

[yuriythebest]

definitely better than automated 2d->3d converisons, keep up the good work.

can you share your workflow/ maybe write a short tutorial about this process?

[Likay]

I'm truly terribly sorry.
Nonethless conversions still have a long way to go. I think something drastic needs to happen since it's not really wirth the effort of spending 1000's of hours to convert a movie to a nonsatisfactory result.
Now for programmers (maybe you know someone that can trash or think of eventual oppurtunities?): I don't have the skills to program it in any way and i can imagine it's a huge work before something really usable will come out of it.
Some automatic conversions analyses the picture and is actually able to with various successful rates separate objects from each other. What if the automatic conversion also analyses the frames and follows each and every object (and at the same time uses the additional data to extract even more objects) to add more data (precise depth, extra textures from different angles etc etc) to it?. If the cameraview changes or the object moves you'll be able to get more data of the object. Static images won't work better than an automatic conversion while moving sceneries would give significantly more datas for the objects.
Depending on how much data the app extracted it creates a 3d-model for each and every "extracted" objects. The models will probably not look like real objects but at least they contains as much data for the model as the scene itself provides. Similar scenes could manually be added to combine the datas from them.
Then the app rerenders the scene using the models. If this movie also could be released with a playerengine the viewers could actually be able to adjust separation and convergence to a certain degree. It will still not look close to 3d-gaming but in enhanced form, who knows?

[Gae43]

definitely better than automated 2d->3d converisons, keep up the good work.

can you share your workflow/ maybe write a short tutorial about this process?

Thanks for the kind words yuriythebest. I don't have time to do a tutorial as I need to finish the rest of the film first. Briefly though, I don't just use one method, it's constantly changing depending on the scene. The scenes in the clip were my first attempts and the process has improved a lot. Ironically, the floating chair that Likay notices is a scene that I didn't go back and re-do. I want to re-do some of my first attempts and keep the quality the same.

Gae43

[WheatstoneHolmes]

@Gae43: great work, looks fantastic!

@Likay: This seems very possible, webcams have face recognition why couldn't someone come up with object recog.?

Great idea, hope someone figures this out and soon

@Yuriythebest: If I'm not mistaken it is partly based on the greyscale depthmap process like: http://www.swell3d.com/2008/07/turn-2d- ... anagl.html

[cybereality]

Not bad. Must have took a while to do frame by frame. I believe good 2D->3D conversion is possible but it is a painstaking process. There is no magic pill.

[Gae43]

Yuriythebest, here's a method that inspired me at first. Since then though, I have developed my own depth map process using other software as well.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r4M_KHt6aw[/youtube]

Thanks for all the comments. Even "not bad" is pretty good from such serious 3D fans.

I admit though...2D to 3D conversions will NEVER replace true stereoscopic 3D. But remember, old classic films weren't filmed in 3D so they have to be converted if you want to enjoy them with some kind of 3D effect.

Gae43

[Gae43]

I've put up an example of an animated depth map that I created to one particular scene.
Even though the anaglyph clip doesnt look anywhere near as good as the original side by side clip that I have, I'm limiting the amount of completed side by side footage that I show for the time being.

[youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_jbJ6XMdaWI&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_jbJ6XMdaWI&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Gae43

[Fredz]

Nice work. The disparity map seems to look good but the anaglyph rendering doesn't do it justice IMHO.

I don't know what your current process is to obtain these disparity maps, but did you try approaches like this one :
Consistent Depth Maps Recovery

Angkor Wat example video : AngkorWat-illustration.wmv
Video with several tests : examples.wmv

[Gae43]

Nice work. The disparity map seems to look good but the anaglyph rendering doesn't do it justice IMHO

Hi Fredz, I agree but it's partly done purposefully. I'm limiting the amount of high quality side by side material that I release. The main one will be the trailer when I get all the parts done.

Thanks for the link...bit too scientific for me I'm afraid. The results seem great though. Shame we don't get any 3D examples though.
Personally, I just use the good ole' fashioned cut and paste and shading and lots and lots of time and patience method.

Oh, but I did at least develop my own system for batch converting.

Gae43

[Fredz]

Hi Fredz, I agree but it's partly done purposefully. I'm limiting the amount of high quality side by side material that I release.

Too bad, why so ? Considering the low quality of the source material, I don't think anyone would "steal" your work. And it would be a better showcase of your technique for interested people, like us...

Thanks for the link...bit too scientific for me I'm afraid. The results seem great though.

Yep, it's quite technical, I've started to try implementing these techniques but it's been a bit hairy on the mathematical side. :/

Shame we don't get any 3D examples though.

I think it would not be that hard to create a side-by-side version of these videos, we've already got the initial footage and the disparity maps.

And creating a 3d model of the disparity map shouldn't be that hard either, we'd just need an appropriate video player to handle viewpoint changes in order to evaluate the quality of the depth. I think you gave me a nice idea for a future project...

[Gae43]

I think it would not be that hard to create a side-by-side version of these videos, we've already got the initial footage and the disparity maps.

Ah yes, I realise that now. It will be quite easy to create a 3D side by side image from all the source material. I won't do it yet though...bit busy with this project.

Gae43

[Fredz]

Did you try to create a 3D model from the depth map of a single image from your own video yet ? It could be a nice way to evaluate the quality of your technique.

[Gae43]

Did you try to create a 3D model from the depth map of a single image from your own video yet ? It could be a nice way to evaluate the quality of your technique

Nope...it never even crossed my mind. The only way I evaluate the quality is purely by the final 3D result. What I've discovered is that those depth maps that you think won't work very well sometimes produce the best results and vice versa. Also, it's amazing what you can do with a black/white gradient as a quick way of producing depth. It works particularly well for fast moving scenes where nothing really stays in focus for a great deal of time. It's a continual learning curve.

Gae43

[Gae43]

My 3D trailer conversion is now available to view in the yt3d player. Whether you like the conversion or not, before making any comments, please bear in mind that every single frame has had a depth map created for it and the process has taken months. I haven't just used a 3D driver or done some frame delaying like some other conversions etc.

Also, I realise that some artifacts are evident but I've had to compress an already compressed Public Domain version in order to do the conversion.

Hope you enjoy it.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW4XN50vKzE[/youtube-hd]

[WheatstoneHolmes]

Your conversion has more depth than the "Orlok The Vampire in 3D" conversion.

I feel bad saying that because I know they worked tirelessly on that conversion.

Good job!

[Likay]

The final result seems way better compared to the other sample. It's definitely watchable even for a nitpicking person like me.
You can take credit for doing a lot better job than the team behind clash of the titans 2d-3d conversion, that's for sure! (doesn't say too much though but these guys are suppoused to be professionals).
Good job! Respect!

[Gae43]

Thanks guys....after several months of laborious work, I really appreciate all your comments.

Now on to the last few weeks of conversion and finally....completion of the whole movie.

Gae43

[Gae43]

Thanks guys....after several months of laborious work, I really appreciate all your comments.

Now on to the last few weeks of conversion and finally....completion of the whole movie.

Gae43

Well those "last few weeks" of conversion turned into "last few months" of conversion. Now, here in January 2011, I can finally say that this is complete....thank God.

I went back over the entire film and re-did the first half to keep up to the standards of the second half. Well, it's taken several hours a day creating nearly 500 animated depth maps to complete the entire film. At times I really felt like giving up, such was the mammoth nature of the task ahead.
I can say confidentally that even the most puritanical of 3D fans should enjoy watching this conversion. Compared to the job they did on Piranha (which I saw recently) this looks like native 3D. It has nice 3D depth throughout and there are plenty of 3D "wow" moments. One of my favourites is the scene of the ghouls on the coach....the 3D depth looking down the aisle looks terrific on a DLP projector. The anaglyph picture below doesn't really do it justice.

My main concern now is how much interest there is in an old B&W PD film, even amongst 3D fans desperate for some content.
For those who decide to take the plunge and buy it, I can honestly say you will not be disappointed. Just sit down, put on your 3D glasses and enjoy a spooky old film with nice 3D depth throughout. You may even actually enjoy the movie and be creeped out by it like I was. No need to spend a fortune on the latest 3D TV and 3D Bluray discs, just open up the movie in your Stereoscopic player and enjoy this classic spooky film, now for the first time in 3D.


http://2d23dconversions-carnivalofsouls3d.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Is this the S-ghoul Bus? by CarnivalofSouls3D, on Flickr


Gae

[Fredz]

Looks nice, did you create a 3D trailer for YouTube 3D or do you have a downloadable 3D trailer in side-by-side or above-below that we could watch ?

[Gae43]

Looks nice, did you create a 3D trailer for YouTube 3D or do you have a downloadable 3D trailer in side-by-side or above-below that we could watch ?

Hi Fredz, the yt3d trailer is just a couple of posts up on this page......

I don't think the trailer had the best 3D scenes in it and really it was a test trailer that I did a few months ago. This short scene is probably a good example of the 3D throughout the film.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4FnuT3RAeM[/youtube-hd]

I think I might upload a whole 2-3 minute scene from the movie sometime on the yt3d player. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting to upload the movie to my vault ready for download.
So still a bit to do.

Gae43

[Fredz]

Hi Fredz, the yt3d trailer is just a couple of posts up on this page......

Ah ok, sorry. I thought that since you did improve the conversion process you would have released a new 3D trailer, but the excerpt you posted seems to address this. Thanks.

[Gae43]

Ah ok, sorry. I thought that since you did improve the conversion process you would have released a new 3D trailer, but the excerpt you posted seems to address this. Thanks.

Fredz, I just didn't have time to do a new 3D trailer. I didn't think the trailer was a good representation of the 3D effect so I've just uploaded a short demo clip from the movie. It pretty much represents the standard of the 3D throughout the film. It's not perfect, but it was the best I could do for the entire film.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWGs5ojG7MY[/youtube-hd]



For some reason this new video keeps crashing my browser and/or reloading. Is anyone else having problems with it or is it just me?

Gae

[Fredz]

Thanks for the clip, no problem here playing it with Google Chrome, although maybe a bit slow to stream. Anyway I'm downloading it for local viewing with my shutter glasses and Stereoscopic Player, it's slower than with your previous clips though, although the size is similar. Maybe a problem with YouTube or our connexion speeds.

[Gae43]

Thanks for the clip, no problem here playing it with Google Chrome, although maybe a bit slow to stream. Anyway I'm downloading it for local viewing with my shutter glasses and Stereoscopic Player, it's slower than with your previous clips though, although the size is similar. Maybe a problem with YouTube or our connexion speeds.

Yes, the clip runs fine in Stereoscopic Player. I must be just having a few problems on my side with the yt3d player. Anyway, hope you enjoy the clip and watch out for those 3D ghouls!!

Gae

[Gae43]

For those of you who want to see what sort of conversion job I did on this, it's available to buy now....

http://2d23dconversions-carnivalofsouls ... nload.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gae43