ST1080 Update: First Shipments arrive in May!

Post by **WiredEarp** » Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 pm

I seem to remember that the 'horizontal vs diagonal' fov was just being based on blog stats and nothing official.
Can someone find an official Sony spec list saying 51 degrees diagonal, or 45 degrees horizontal?

On their store, which you'd expect to be a more accurate source than blog statistics, or even the wiki page, since there are no citations. Its probably true, but I wont really believe it either way until I've seen it somewhere official or heard it from someone trusted. Its entirely possible the whole HMZ has bigger FOV thing, is based on nothing more than incorrect stats.

Post by **yann** » Tue May 29, 2012 10:18 am

Not exactly first, here.. but I finally got my shipping confirmation (via paypal). I ordered March 1st, and DHL picked the package up 2012-05-29 16:23 in South Korea (I'm assuming local time). I believe this week should cover the last of the March 1st orders. I'll do some comparison with the HMZ-T1 when I get it, including timing with a cloned signal.

Post by **brantlew** » Tue May 29, 2012 11:13 am

Great! Can't wait to here a more informed and technical review.

Post by **love2scoot** » Thu May 31, 2012 7:38 am

First day shipments are done! I just received confirmation a few mins ago, I ordered 3/2 at ~7PM.

Post by **brantlew** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:08 am

That's great. They should blow through the rest of the month's orders very quickly now. I'm still hoping that my March 16th order gets processed in this Friday's batch. Also a more technical reviewer is finally putting up his impressions...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... st22081888

Post by **wiredmessiah** » Thu May 31, 2012 1:09 pm

brantlew wrote:Veda's reviews are getting slightly less crazy. Maybe he has calmed down a bit after his initial excitement. One thing that is encouraging is his confirmation of PalmerTech's impressions that the exit pupil is indeed large, and that motion does not easily move the image out of focus. Maybe the stability of focus is what is giving him the perception that the FOV is larger than the HMZ because we know that is not technically true. It is nice to think that the subjective difference in FOV between these two units is not significant, since that is one of the strongest selling points in favor of the HMZ. Or maybe he is just a fan-boy deluding himself. I am anxious to read a more rigorous comparative review of these two units.

hint hint cyberreality...

I'm totally waiting for a line by line comparison type review of the two units. I'm leaning towards the ST1080 but I don't want to buy the wrong one!

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:10 am

Some criticisms of the device. Each person experiences different amounts of blurring along the corners and/or the edges. Also some light "bleeding"/reflections reported on the sides of the image. This affects the clarity of the unit when used as a desktop replacement, but is probably a minor issue during gaming.

http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/comm ... w-1644434/

Post by **space123321** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:39 am

Some more reviews are starting to roll in and they are making my decision harder - seems like the unit is also have the blury issues I experienced with my HMZ (which I improved with the welding helmet mod however still had to consistantly adjust to get the right sweet spot). I am hoping for a direct HMZ comparison review and I will go from there... I really do miss my HMZ...

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:28 am

space123321 wrote:seems like the unit is also have the blury issues I experienced with my HMZ (which I improved with the welding helmet mod however still had to consistantly adjust to get the right sweet spot).

The impression I get is that the "sweet spot" problem is vastly improved over the HMZ. Different people have varying experiences but only one of the guys mentions that he notices blurriness in game HUDS - and most of the reviewers praise the unit's ability to maintain focus during motion. I think the problems are mostly noticeable when using the unit on the desktop - one review lamenting the fact that he could not use it for writing code. That's disappointing but not a deal-breaker for lots of people that want to use the device for gaming.

Post by **yann** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:58 pm

I got my unit, and have started putting up a few notes: http://yann.vernier.se/2012/06/01/silic ... pressions/
Sorry it's not much yet.

Post by **space123321** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:11 pm

I am getting worried - the results are coming in now - there is a pic posted on the AVS forum which seems to display an incrediable amount of light hazing. Also Yann below seems to have received a defective unit. I went through the order process today however ultimately decided (once again...) to wait for some additional reviews. I am really hoping the users on here start to receive their units and provide feedback as your experiences will be more in line with what I want to get out of the unit.

SMD has been incredible in terms of customer service and answering any and all questions - I am just really hoping that the unit is what we are expecting (or hoping for)!

Thanks all!!

Post by **3dvison** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:53 pm

It sounds to me like it has a bigger FOV then the eye can take in, and I think that would be a good thing. It just would not be as good for desktop work but great for Games, Movies & VR.

Post by **joe75** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:18 am

Well, well

I read some reviews or a least some early feedbacks and impressions.

I was like everyone else disappointed that no model was sent for review and that's the reason i didn't jump on the preorder and i am still not sure to buy it yet.

Though it appears it is still a huge improvement over sony HZ-TM1 prototype, from what i read there are problems with light bleeding which seems huge,some blurring issue that might depend more of the viewer than of the googles, the rainbow effect because the screen alternatively displays the 3 primary colors!!!and a fix to be coming at a later time to scale 720p or lower resolution.
Also i do wish they had put an additionnal dvi dual link connector to permit 3D @1080p Full HD@60Hz.

Finaly the stickers solution seem only so-so but better than none.

I do not know if all those issues apply just for the first bunch of googles and if a solution or a better conception could improve that?

There seem to be a lot of issues but maybe not that significant on dayly usage.

However, as unperfect as it is, it still seems the best hmd around for public.

Also the company seems very commited to deliver performance and support for this product.

Post by **brantlew** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:40 pm

yann wrote:I got my unit, and have started putting up a few notes: http://yann.vernier.se/2012/06/01/silic ... pressions/
Sorry it's not much yet.

Thanks for the info. I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts after a weekend of usage.

Post by **space123321** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:21 am

Oh man - this is getting really discouraging... there is another user that posted a review directly on the SMD sight... his review just plain out scares me... maybe I should not have sold my HMZ after all... Basically viewing angle issues, audio issues, poor blacks, and controller heats up so much that he can't hold it... here is his comments... this really sucks if all the units are like this...

Just got mine via DHL today. This is a quick review

1. Unit is lightweight and relatively compact
2. The fit of the glasses and the view angle is a bit off. I can only see the bottom half of the picture when I sit the glasses squarely on my nose. The only way I can see the full screen is if I lift the frontpiece upto my forehead but then the arms press so tightly against my temples, it hurts terribly. I tried the head supports(a strap which comes with the set) but it doesn't really work
3. Picture quality wise - Blacks are not good. Looks kinda grey and it could be only my set but there's like a glass in front of my eyes where I can spot reflections. Not a good viewing experience. Image wise I don't see any pixelation which is good but the corners look a bit blur.
4. 3D performace was pretty ok. No noticeable ghosting but because you don't get the total immersion feel (i.e The screen looks pretty far away), the effects don't really pop out at you.
5. The audio is not good either. I get a buzzing sound with the supplied earphones. Haven't tried my own set yet.
6. The controller box gets really hot and I worry for the electronics in there as it might get fried. I can't even hold it for long.

Don't know whether I got a defective set but the viewing angle is really bugging me to the extent that I might contemplate a return.

Post by **brantlew** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:39 am

There seem to be a variety of opinions from different users about focus. Seems like some people have no problem just putting the glasses on with no fuss and seeing everything clearly. Others have to position and adjust the unit a bit and still have problems seeing the upper and/or lower edges. Maybe it's a quality control issue? Maybe it's just differences in the shape of people's heads? I will be curious to hear from Palmer, because he is the only person I know that has sampled two units - the one at CES and his purchased unit. Getting some comparative analysis between those units will be helpful.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:36 pm

Those points are all pretty minor really. The audio is the biggest one, but you can just use your own headphones. I'm not going to worry about stuff like 'hot controller box' or 'view angle being a bit off'.
The view angle one might be head shape related and could probably be modified pretty easily. The reflections etc would be the most concerning to me.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:44 pm

The viewing angle thing can probably be solved by hanging the unit off the top of your head with the strap (I had to do this with some Vuzix HMDs).

Post by **Okta** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:24 am

3D mode – of which side by side isn’t available

Does this support SBS at all?

Post by **yann** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:58 am

It does support side by side, but currently only in 1080.

Post by **brantlew** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:01 pm

SMD comments on reported image defects:

http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/1/po ... ments.html

Here is the image that is mentioned in the post:

Post by **brantlew** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:13 pm

I found this to be a very concise, tempered, and informative review and I think it's worth quoting in it's entirety. Unfortunately this is also starting to look like the consensus opinion on the product - a good effort but a bit disappointing. I expected to receive my shipping confirm yesterday but still no word as of yet.

Ok having spent a further 3 hours testing the unit I have come to the following conclusions:-

1. The experience when viewing from ipad/iphone is superior to HMZ. Of course there is the scaling issue but once this is resolved should be great with one proviso. The bleed issue is not an issue here because the picture is only in the centre of the screen and the white haze does not reach there so colours stay vibrant. With scaling this haze may then become an issue.

2. I compared in all cases the ST1080 then immediately with the same content the HMZ. When using output from laptop the HMZ won on all counts. Colours were more vibrant, picture was clearer,no flicker problems whatsoever. The HMZ improved what I was seeing on my laptop screen but this may have just been perception because of the size of HMZ image. In contrast the ST1080 looked washed out and picture didn't appear as sharp.

3. I then tested the unit with the PS3 watching several 2D movie segments and two 3D. In bright scenes the unit performed adequately in both formats. The 3D looked good and had more pop at times to HMZ. However,in any dark scene the colours are washed out by the light bleed and at this stage I cannot see myself ever picking up the unit in preference to the HMZ for watching 3D.

4. Immersion qualities were lacking. I often go the cinema and complain to my wife how small the screen is after using the HMZ!!! That would never happen with this unit as I never forgot for one moment that I was viewing a screen. I only tested a 3D game for a few minutes so not really fair to comment but the light issues still applied.

5. Comfort, my unit came without the head strap so I cannot comment on whether that improves matters. After a while the pressure did start to tell on my nose. Nothing like the HMZ did at first but a mod will definitely be required with an over head strap like someone else on these forums has already done.

6. Sound, no issues with buzzing etc. Very impressed with the sound compared to HMZ even with the supplied ear phones which I actually quite like.

7. Battery, I bought the wrong one. Make sure you get one with 2v output to make sure or it will not work.

8. Conclusion, more like a proto type than a finished product but most people said the same about the HMZ when it came out. I will be keeping mine as it does the exact job I bought it for eg portability. Will be great when travelling. The light issues must be addressed or all the positive customer goodwill will quickly evaporate. I have two relatives who were desperate to try mine before ordering. As soon as they did they said that no way would they buy in the current state. They wanted it for gaming but have now gone off to buy HMZ.

I think overall I am a little disappointed with the product. I expected a few weeks ago to be blown away with it. Then after all the negative comments I expected to be very dissatisfied.The actual result lay in the middle. I would give HMZ an 8/10 after modding as Iknow I can turn on and get an enjoyable immersive experience. At the moment I could only give SM1080 5/10 until the issues are resolved. Great potential but at the moment it is still just that,unrealised potential.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:15 pm

Hmm... not sounding too good, but at least seems like an honest account.

Post by **brantlew** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:01 pm

Excellent job yann on your second part! Some interesting info I haven't seen anywhere else. Apparently the ST1080 has 90ms less delay than the HMZ ! That backs up Carmack's testing that showed at least 100ms video processing delays with the Sony.

http://yann.vernier.se/2012/06/06/st108 ... comment-44

Post by **space123321** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:13 pm

Well - it looks as if this is what i needed to see to go ahead an order an ST1080! Thanks!

Post by **corppor** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:45 pm

SMD reply
http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/1/po ... ation.html

Post by **space123321** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:53 pm

As I am sure a few of you were hoping to receive your units by today - I am waiting for your faithful reviews lol... oh well, hopefully you guys will be in business early next week!

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:06 pm

I'm sort of annoyed that I haven't received a shipping notice this week. Last week I saw a guy that ordered on the 13th get a shipping confirm, so I assumed that my 16th order would have been sent out by now. The SMD forums are all really quiet as well. None of the "finally got mine" type of posts in several days. I suspect they have stalled production to address the quality-control issues they reported last week. But they had been very good about keeping the customers in the loop, so it seems like they would have posted a notice on their blog to expect shipping delays. I'm confused. Anybody got a shipping confirm this week?

Post by **Selix** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:34 pm

I spoke with SMD's staff, and apparently they have, at least partially, suspended shipments to
improve their quality control and correct some errors in their production proccesses.

Post by **faker** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:17 pm

hm... i am currently ok with the st1080 reviews.

The black, that it will be dark grey was obvious from the start, as it has lcos displays(even for me, who don't care much about displays and such normaly).

the other things i am warry about are adressed by SMD(the light at the edges, the to strong screwed on screws), maybe with a paid hardwareupdate, but when they bring out as mentioned a display port version maybe(gamerversion), i will stick with the rc1 version, and switch afterwarts, depends on their blogupdates.

In general i find the start ok, its subjectiv even better as the first releases of sony, intel, nvidia or amd. Not calling it a good one, but i find their handling up to now better. 120 Pound for the headstrap replacement(dunno if worktime is already included with the price) for the sony hmz t1, and needing to send the unit back, ...

The dead pixels issus i see so often around i don't understand... Dead Pixel -> RMA, but as written in their blog, with 8.5 ym for 3 subpixels a lot of fun, finding single non working ones.

Only drawback its like with the smartphones currently, you can choose with error you want to buy, nothing perfect currently on the market.

On the other hand there is the driver problem, iz3d is closing down in a few days(still hope, they get the money for open source, but don't think they make it in that short time), tridef3d has problems with steam as far as i read in their forums, nvidia has their all users are DAUS and should only work with presets mentality and 24Hz FP or 30Hz per eye(T&B, SBS, ...) is the same quality wise and for gaming 720p ought to be enough for anybody.

As i found 3DTVplay the more supported one, i think i might need to work with ini or driver hacks/cracks.

Hmz release was a fiasco i would say even bigger than the st1080 one, but now everyone compares it to a modded one(with worktime i would thing about 1500+ Doller?), and still with problems.
Its like the comparisions, of a overcloaked 8 year old cpu with a new one in stock speed, and not mentioning that you can overcloak the new one too.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:49 pm

My short bit:

Many of the people complaining have clearly never used an HMD before. They are getting a product that blows every preceding product out of the water, and they cannot possibly realize that.

Post by **Selix** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:48 am

Hi PalmerTech,

I am new here, but was wondering if you would expand that last comment, a little?

I assume that you know the history of HMD tech pretty intimately. I am a total
beginner, but thinking of ordering the ST1080.

What is reasonable to expect from the technology, for the price, all nuances considered?

Irrespective of specific usage of this device, is it a good value, generally speaking?

Do you have the ST1080 or the Sony HMZ-T1, yourself?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Selix.

Post by **space123321** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:01 am

The company confirmed (SMD) with me that manufacturing (and shipping) was haulted last week for a few days to address the quality control issues that some individuals have recently experienced. After owning the HMZ I found the picture was amazing, however small pupil exit (bluriness) and comfort issues casues me to sell the unit (for more than I bought it for lol!) and was leaning towards the ST1080 as a perfect replacement for the HMZ. I am still waiting for a few more positive reviews (expecially after the recent issues they experienced) before I place my order. They are definately doing everything possible to address any concerns/issues that their customers are dealing with. I have been quite impressed with their responses over the past couple weeks.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:10 pm

Selix wrote:Hi PalmerTech,

I am new here, but was wondering if you would expand that last comment, a little?

I assume that you know the history of HMD tech pretty intimately. I am a total
beginner, but thinking of ordering the ST1080.

What is reasonable to expect from the technology, for the price, all nuances considered?

Irrespective of specific usage of this device, is it a good value, generally speaking?

Do you have the ST1080 or the Sony HMZ-T1, yourself?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Selix.

What you get, for the price, is a relatively lightweight, comfortable, and high resolution HMD with good optics. You can travel with it, you can add a head tracker for a immersive gaming, etc.

What you cannot expect is something that has color or contrast that beats a normal desktop monitor, and the far corners will be a little bit warped or blurred. The thing is, almost every consumer HMD has been FAR worse in these regards, with pitiful resolution to boot. Heck, until a few months ago, the best you could do was a $600, 800x480 HMD with terrible optics, low contrast, washed out colors, and fuzzy image. I have an HMZ-T1 and have used a prototype ST1080, and I think the ST1080 is a great value for what it is. You just need to know what to expect.

Post by **STRZ** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:02 am

PalmerTech wrote: What you cannot expect is something that has color or contrast that beats a normal desktop monitor, and the far corners will be a little bit warped or blurred.

Normal Desktop Monitor, for me it means a monitor with TN or IPS with roughly reaching 1000:1 contrast ratio, more like 800:1, in that range. It's terrible to enjoy dark films or films in cinemascope due to black bars and colour shifts on those monitors.

Tbh, i'm quite shocked reading that it doesn't reach even that level picture quality wise. For gaming and full screen use it shouldn't be that much of a drawback if you're used to normal LCD monitors, but I'd avoid it if it is bought as "home cinema device" to replace a TV or decent beamer in that price range.

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:44 pm

Update from SMD on their shipments. Good news: They have addressed many of the quality problems that were creating bad impressions and reviews. Bad news: They are about a month behind on their release schedule. Still waiting for my ST1080

A quick update on how we're doing with shipments of the ST1080.

We are still working through our back log. Our goal is to ship all back log orders by mid-July. We haven't been able to ramp up as quickly as we had planned. The added quality control measures have also affected our overall manufacturing throughput.
We've resolved all the reported quality control issues (corner blurriness, top half blurriness, dust in the display (reported as dead pixels), and excessive "light bleeding") and have implemented assembly procedure changes as well as additional training.
We also implemented additional quality control check points. This does affect the manufacturing throughput, but we feel that it's more important to ship high quality in lower volume than low quality at high volume.
We are also planning to increase manufacturing throughput to additional infrastructural changes as well as additional production personnel.

We ask for you continued patience and understanding as we work through these growth related events.

Sincerely,

Paul Jin
CEO
SiliconMicroDisplay

Post by **space123321** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:01 pm

My Hyra arrived today - I am sooooo wishing I had my HMZ still lol! I can't wait for SMD to be all caught up. They have been amazing in terms of getting back to any question I have had. The ST1080 for everyday use and the Rift for total immersion is a dream combo come true!

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:45 pm

Unfortunate about the delays, but a lot better than the wall of silence some companies have.

Post by **Squall12** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:59 pm

if SMD fixed all the issue then i might get it and sell my sony hmz-t1 as i prefer of having fullhd 3d viewing.

Post by **joe75** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:29 pm

I am speaking as a guy who didn't order this promizing HMD (yet?)

I have tried the HMZ in the sony store in Paris and i knew instantly it would be a no go for me :
No portability, no comfort whatsoever and the screen looked really tiny when watching movies.
Sony should have gone back to the drawing board on this one and no try to sell this early prototype.

Back to ST1080 now;
This is nice SMD company is communicating and one could be confident they can fix most glaring issues.
But I am also glad i didn't get on the preorder wagon how tempted i was, considering the big issues found and especially since the money is taken before shipping takes place.

I guess the fact that no pre unit was made available for a review was a bit of a turn off for me
but there are not so many available reviews for others HMD either.

However there are still 2 issues about the box that i am waiting to be fixed :

How hot does the cable box can get?

Can it be upgraded : they should have allowed 1080p 3D @60hz from beginning by allowing display port, DVI-D or by another solution.
as well as upscaled image.