A review of my HMD collection. (Lots of pictures)

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:55 am

I don't find official Carl Zeiss info about resolution of new OLED Cinemizer, however they told about 16:9 aspect rate (not 4:3 in case of 640x480).
Also, here's nice video with prototype of head-tracker for Cinemizer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPWOrNxpl0

This is very nice, and price range looks like just a little higher than Vuzix products, let's see when Carl Zeiss will release this headset.

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:12 am

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:I don't find official Carl Zeiss info about resolution of new OLED Cinemizer, however they told about 16:9 aspect rate (not 4:3 in case of 640x480).
Also, here's nice video with prototype of head-tracker for Cinemizer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPWOrNxpl0

This is very nice, and price range looks like just a little higher than Vuzix products, let's see when Carl Zeiss will release this headset.

===============

pal - please do not compare vuzix with cinemizer , vuzix is crap !
just read reviews of vr920/AV920/wrap 920 on amazon usa - vuzix is china/HK crap - i'd never ever buy their product even for US $1

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:28 am

Man, Vuzix made in USA.
I own one VR920, and had few more of them earlier (used them for work), can't say this is crap, they have nice quality for price.
Vuzix have experience in making consumer HMD's since Forte VFX-1 in 1995 (Forte became IIS, it became Icuiti, known as Vuzix nowadays).
In fact VR920 in many parameters better than Z800.

I will not judge the product by some lame reviews (I'm not talking all of them lame, but many of them).

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:34 am

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:Man, Vuzix made in USA.
I own one VR920, and had few more of them earlier (used them for work), can't say this is crap, they have nice quality for price.
Vuzix have experience in making consumer HMD's since Forte VFX-1 in 1995 (Forte became IIS, it became Icuiti, known as Vuzix nowadays).
In fact VR920 in many parameters better than Z800.

I will not judge the product by some lame reviews (I'm not talking all of them lame, but many of them).

============
making HMDs and making quality HMDs - there is a lot of diffenrence
just search ebay usa - "video glasses" then you will know...
vuzix has never been quality just another HMD...
vr920/av920/wrap 920 - they all have washed out colors as commented on amazon usa reviews exactly as fatsharks [if you had been to : http://www.rcgroups.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]
may be that kopin displays have washed out colors in general..so only hope is OLEDs as i have read they require less power and produce phenomenal contrast/color/brightness but putting US$17k is a lot for oleds - well i am not that crazy for OLEDs...hehehe.

somewhere i read in this forum that fatsharks use the same display as vr920...kopin displays
there you go ... logic..
anyhow vuzix gives me the creeps !

Post by **VRgamesterz** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:37 am

Anc, you have to stop going by so many reviews reviews, VR920 isn't crap, specially for the price, I had to for my projects and they worked well, they worked very well when I molded them. AGAIN the price is what made them, and some support they added and thier 3d wasn't bad either. Most of us on here have or had a VR920, some vuzix iwear, atleast you know what your getting instead of some other LOOK what I found glasses...

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:12 pm

VRgamesterz wrote:Anc, you have to stop going by so many reviews reviews, VR920 isn't crap, specially for the price, I had to for my projects and they worked well, they worked very well when I molded them. AGAIN the price is what made them, and some support they added and thier 3d wasn't bad either. Most of us on here have or had a VR920, some vuzix iwear, atleast you know what your getting instead of some other LOOK what I found glasses...

================================
i take the reviews seriously when i try something i am not sure of !
it does not hurt to know from other's experience .
May be you are lucky that you belong to the happy-50% segment good for you but i 'd be careful...dealing with vuzix...

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:43 am

I've got the VR920 and the Wrap 310 and they are not crap. Now I wouldn't go as far to say that the quality is great, but its acceptable. Certainly on par or better than the dozens of chinese knock-off video glasses. Most of them, I think, use the same Kopin displays anyway so there is not much difference. Most of those reviews you read on Amazon are from people that don't know about HMDs are are trying to compare it to a 1080P HDTV, obviously its not going to match that quality. But I can tell you for a fact the colors are not washed out at all. The resolution and screen size could be better but the colors are fine. The only reason you are seeing bad reviews for Vuzix is because they are popular. If there were any reviews for half the HMDs you've been linking I am sure there would be similar complaints. But don't knock Vuzix. For the price range they probably have the highest quality, most compatible devices on the market.

Post by **ancjob** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:25 pm

cybereality wrote:I've got the VR920 and the Wrap 310 and they are not crap. Now I wouldn't go as far to say that the quality is great, but its acceptable. Certainly on par or better than the dozens of chinese knock-off video glasses. Most of them, I think, use the same Kopin displays anyway so there is not much difference. Most of those reviews you read on Amazon are from people that don't know about HMDs are are trying to compare it to a 1080P HDTV, obviously its not going to match that quality. But I can tell you for a fact the colors are not washed out at all. The resolution and screen size could be better but the colors are fine. The only reason you are seeing bad reviews for Vuzix is because they are popular. If there were any reviews for half the HMDs you've been linking I am sure there would be similar complaints. But don't knock Vuzix. For the price range they probably have the highest quality, most compatible devices on the market.

----------------
i just want a perfect microLCD hence the search continues...
mine I-cine has real big screen 32 degrees of FOV but i find even this FOV is straining not too sure of those with 60 FOV but the colors are not vibrant , NOT SHARP ENOUGH my gripe..

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:07 am

Dude, I don't think a perfect headset exists (at least not with a reasonable pricetag). Maybe you should just be happy with what you got. Or maybe give the Vuzix Wrap line a chance. They have picture adjustments for brightness, contrast, hue and saturation. Should be able to get the colors just like you want. You can get the Wrap 310 for under $200, might be worth a look. I'm happy with mine.

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:36 pm

cybereality wrote:Dude, I don't think a perfect headset exists (at least not with a reasonable pricetag). Maybe you should just be happy with what you got. Or maybe give the Vuzix Wrap line a chance. They have picture adjustments for brightness, contrast, hue and saturation. Should be able to get the colors just like you want. You can get the Wrap 310 for under $200, might be worth a look. I'm happy with mine.

-----------------------------------------------------------
pal - even the china headsets have colors sometimes adjustable...
But it's not the colors it's the vibrancy / vividness that's lacking just like kinda 'washed out'
eagerly awaiting headplay this week to review it's performance

i guess v4/v6/v8 from virtual research can solve this...
i exchanged emails with Tone...regd V4/V6
V4 - low resolution , 3D on dual input only @NTSC rates [separate for each eye..so IMAX DVDs cannot be played in fact no 3D DVD can be played to have 3D ...

With low resolution - despite great colors the 640x480 video may look pixel-lated on 60 degree FOV not too sure for this rt now...

V6 - VGA@60Hz , for 3D - dual VGA @60Hz [same as above only format changes]...
i guess more or less same is the story for V8

so for 3D DVDs - back to vrealities... virtual viewer 3D/virtual visor/i-Trek 3D PC/China-HK headsets..
site claims the specs which are always suspect....

But virtual visor has had decent reviews and none for virtual viewer 3D...

Since vrealities claim to have provided solutions to Houston university with virtual viewer 3D ... installed [http://www.vrealities.com/news.html] - so does it establish that the device is good..? not too sure myself..

So US$800 gamble...

i will carry on with i-cine Hi-res and headplay [for 3d - hope it plays IMAX DVDs..] and wait for reviews on cinemizer with OLEDs...

also anybody tried this QLondon 80" LCD TV VIDEO DISPLAY GLASSES GOGGLES EYEWEAR: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compared to virtual visor - it looks good and solid..reviewed here http://www.slashgear.com/q-london-3d-80 ... w-1847362/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i wanted the above for US$250-270 but the guy is NOT obliging....

i may try this instead of virtual visor...

what you think guys...

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:24 pm

What would be the point of getting the Virtual Visor? Sounds about the same as what you have already.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:40 pm

cybereality wrote:What would be the point of getting the Virtual Visor? Sounds about the same as what you have already.

=====================
i will test headplay with 3D DVD
if it works great and if not then probably the qlondon 80'' 3D glasses [same as virtual visor] but the claims are rock-solid unlike vrealities ...

Post by **PalmerTech** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:21 pm

They use the same Kopin 0.44" CyberDisplay LCD modules as everything else. They claim 80 inches, but that is at a further away distance.

Waste of money.

Post by **ancjob** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:52 am

PalmerTech wrote:They use the same Kopin 0.44" CyberDisplay LCD modules as everything else. They claim 80 inches, but that is at a further away distance.

Waste of money.

==============
so only left with V8...as the option
i will wait to hear further regd V8 from virtual research..
if no progress on V8 front -> test headplay for 3D -? then try qlondon [better than virtual visor i guess]...

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:59 am

Hey guys!
Seems like new Cinemizer OLED will have actually 720p high def!
It will have HDMI connector for PC's (and bunch of other from composite to IPods), and probably optional head-tracker too.
Also, there are rumors that it will also support 3DVision drivers.
Release must be in 2011.

Design is pretty nice

If Carl Zeiss will release high-definition HMD for 515$ this will be epic win for all of us, I suppose!

[Edited] Almost forgot about news-link:
http://www.digitalversus.com/ifa-2010-c ... 15747.html

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:02 pm

Here is a video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI8hkO3FTOg[/youtube]

Looks like a headtracker to me. I am cautiously optimistic, I am going to assume the FOV is the same, which is none too immersive.

The deciding factors for me would be the FOV, if an eyeshield is available or not, and if they work with IZ3D drivers. I really, really want them to work with IZ3D.

EDIT: Here is a short review of them. I am hoping they turn out to be 720p, but I would not be surprised at all if they are only 800x600.

EDIT AGAIN: FOrgot to link! http://3dmoviedude.com/?p=382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:05 pm

PalmerTech wrote:I really, really want them to work with IZ3D.

I don't see why not, it actually supports side by side and probably over/under stereo-pairs, IZ3D can output in this format, I've also gave link on head-tracker video on previous page

People that saw Cinemizer OLED on the show talk that "screen size" looks bigger than Cinemizer Plus, and Cinemizer Plus have 32 degree FOV. I don't think Cinemizer OLED will be something good in FOV, but at least it will be more than 32 degree, which pretty ok to me.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:13 pm

The thing is, I am not aware of any 720p OLED displays. There are lots of 800x600 OLED HMDs around, though. If I had to guess, the FOV will be around 40 degrees, which is okay I guess.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:29 pm

PalmerTech wrote:The thing is, I am not aware of any 720p OLED displays.

Me neither, but it's Zeiss, right?

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:37 pm

They make optics, not screens.

Like I said, cautiously optimistic. I mean, even an 800x600 OLED HMD with a 40 degree FOV and support for modern 3D standards would be great! If they could come in with a 720p HMD at 60 degree FOV or higher, I would lose most of my motivation to make DIY HMDs.

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:48 pm

PalmerTech wrote:They make optics, not screens.

Yeah but they have the ability to order screens with proper specs

[Edit] Some time ago even TDVisor intended to became 720p, but they failed with production.
People who saw Cinemizer OLED talk about wide-screen, 800x600 is not wide-screen actually, so I prefer to think it's 720p

Keeping my money till they release it.

You can check this small review from eye-witness for example:
http://3dmoviedude.com/?p=382

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:03 pm

This sounds really promising about this new Carl Zeiss headset. If its 720P, thats great, but if not its no biggie. I use the Vuzix Wrap 310 a lot and its only 428 x 240 (low res but at least widescreen format). Even at that super low res, it looks fine. Of course higher res would be better but I would accept just about anything as long as its better than 640 x 480. The main thing I want is widescreen, and indications seem to be that it is. I bet its probably some odd resolution like 854 x 480 or something like that (if they even make them in those sizes). Hopefully its 720P, but we will find out soon.

Aside from that I think the big news is that its HDMI 1.4 compatible. Which means it can be used with PS3 games and BluRay 3D. This is pretty significant and has put this device on my radar. I have been putting off getting one of those new 3D HDTVs due to the high price and the fact that I'm happy with my current TV. For $500 this would be a great way to enjoy some 3D Blu-Ray and maybe some PS3 games. Actually, I think I might already be sold on this device. Can't wait for it to come out.

EDIT: Found another video of the headtracker (which is an optional accessory):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KdD5jRLIXA[/youtube]

And heres one in 3D, but its mostly just this girl and not much of the headset:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37H4kPgQlRc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:09 pm

cybereality wrote:I use the Vuzix Wrap 310 a lot and its only 428 x 240 (low res but at least widescreen format). Even at that super low res, it looks fine.

Sure, sometimes I'm using VFX1 with 263 x 230 for some Quake1 action, and it's looks pretty fine too (especially for retro-gaming)!
But agree, stuff like Crysis2 will look much better in 720p, so even if I prefer bigger FOV, I'm waiting for high resolution too.

Post by **ancjob** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:57 pm

Guys!
why do not we make a new thread titled "cinemizer with OLEDs" and keep updating with new info-add-ons ?

this is really getting exciting...
cinemizer with oleds supporting 720p with hdmi input [i guess it will be back-compatible with hdmi 1.3] and ergonomics look good and 32 degrees FOV is perfect for me ...

I will wait for this cool thing when it comes out...

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:53 am

Ok, I have made a thread just for the new Cinemizer:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **ancjob** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:23 am

cybereality wrote:Ok, I have made a thread just for the new Cinemizer:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thanks pal - will make it easy for the newbies to get their hands-on info on new cinemizer

Post by **3dvison** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:47 pm

On the VR-4 & V6 I see they both have two inputs for use with stereo.
How can you use these HMD's with a computer and video card that only has one video output ?
Can you use a simple Y-splitter to turrn the video cards single output into two ?
Seems like you would be sending both screens the same image if you did it that way.
So how do you use 3D on the VR4 & V6 with a computer that only has a single video output ???

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:11 pm

3dvison wrote:On the VR-4 & V6 I see they both have two inputs for use with stereo.
How can you use these HMD's with a computer and video card that only has one video output ?
Can you use a simple Y-splitter to turrn the video cards single output into two ?
Seems like you would be sending both screens the same image if you did it that way.
So how do you use 3D on the VR4 & V6 with a computer that only has a single video output ???

same question here - please somebody clarify...

Post by **PalmerTech** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:37 am

3dvison wrote:On the VR-4 & V6 I see they both have two inputs for use with stereo.
How can you use these HMD's with a computer and video card that only has one video output ?
Can you use a simple Y-splitter to turrn the video cards single output into two ?
Seems like you would be sending both screens the same image if you did it that way.
So how do you use 3D on the VR4 & V6 with a computer that only has a single video output ???

You do not need to use a splitter. If you put input into only one side, it clones it into both displays automatically.

To use it in 3D with a computer that has only one video output, you will need a Matrox Dual Head monitor extender.

Post by **3dvison** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:07 pm

So the VR4 & V6 are not like the Vuzix VR920 or even shutter glasses with only one input , you must feed them two inputs to get 3d ?
What 3D driver software do you use with the VR4/V6 ?
Can they use the nvidia 3D drivers or any other easy to find 3D drivers ?

Post by **Johnny-Mnemonic** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:19 pm

3dvison wrote:So the VR4 & V6 are not like the Vuzix VR920 or even shutter glasses with only one input , you must feed them two inputs to get 3d ?

Yes.

3dvison wrote:Can they use the nvidia 3D drivers or any other easy to find 3D drivers ?

They can use old generation of nvidia stereo drivers, or IZ3D driver with dual-output mode.

Post by **3dvison** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:28 pm

So if you were to buy a new video card today and almost all of them have two DVI outputs on the back now. Could you use a DVI to VGA Dsub adapter on the video cards two outputs and not need the Matrox Dual Head monitor extender ?

Post by **PalmerTech** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:50 pm

Yes. That is what I do with my V8. AMAZING piece of gear.

Post by **3dvison** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:20 pm

PalmerTech wrote:Yes. That is what I do with my V8. AMAZING piece of gear.

That "YES" was for my last qustion right ?..LOL
Have you found a way to feed it a higher Rez. image from a modern PC/Game with the use of a down Scaler/converter or are you just out of luck if a game or app. wont run at 640* 480 rez ?

Link below:
Could you use somthing like this and if so would you need two for stereo ?
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/pal-hdmi-to-n ... erter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or could you have a single video output from the back of your PC plugged into the scallers input and have the scallers output plugged into the Matrox Dual Head monitor extender box ? Then using the two Matrox outputs for the HMD...LOL..

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:50 pm

3dvison wrote:
PalmerTech wrote:Yes. That is what I do with my V8. AMAZING piece of gear.
That "YES" was for my last qustion right ?..LOL
Have you found a way to feed it a higher Rez. image from a modern PC/Game with the use of a down Scaler/converter or are you just out of luck if a game or app. wont run at 640* 480 rez ?

Link below:
Could you use somthing like this and if so would you need two for stereo ?
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/pal-hdmi-to-n ... erter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or could you have a single video output from the back of your PC plugged into the scallers input and have the scallers output plugged into the Matrox Dual Head monitor extender box ? Then using the two Matrox outputs for the HMD...LOL..

so much of hardware and wires all around - how can one enjoy anything [not to forget the weight of V8]...
gives me creeps at the thought of it..

Post by **3dvison** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:08 pm

There would still only be one SCSI cable going from the control box to the VR4/V6/V8...?

Post by **ancjob** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:04 am

3dvison wrote:There would still only be one SCSI cable going from the control box to the VR4/V6/V8...?

oh yeah! those bulky V4/V6/V8 - did not i have headplay enough to bother me [viz-a-viz weight] already that i consider adding one more...

I forgot V4 has pony tail over the head which carries the SCSI cable..reminds me of china-men in kung-fu movies real funny design....

Frankly speaking headplay is lot better than numerous no names in the market if one is ok with it's weight...value for money < US $400

Post by **3dvison** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:06 pm

Does the Headplay have a 60FOV ?
I think the Headplay was made to be a general use display device.
The Virtual Research products were made to be true VR equipment from parts and tech that was available at the time they were made.

It seems some people on here hate VR and VR HMD's..Why are they on this website ?

Post by **ancjob** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:42 pm

3dvison wrote:Does the Headplay have a 60FOV ?
I think the Headplay was made to be a general use display device.
The Virtual Research products were made to be true VR equipment from parts and tech that was available at the time they were made.

It seems some people on here hate VR and VR HMD's..Why are they on this website ?

Pal - it's not the question of love/hate V4/V6/V8
it's about the requirement -wise - i find that 34FOV is way too much for me [huge screen too close] and great for theater experience ...NOT sure of 60FOV
V4 has low resolution best for movies...
V6/V8 better than V4 but accept VGA [640x480]@60Hz only..so additional h/w is needed...
HMDs is expensive business - for any HMD to be experimented with - it 's to be owned first then one's luck...
So i am NOT adventurous anymore..got three already [headplay/I-cine Hi-res/AV920]
Anyone sending me a a loner of V4/V6/V8 is welcome ..for trial
Of course i will return the goods or pay if i wanna keep it.....

Post by **3dvison** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:35 am

[quote="ancjob"
Pal - it's not the question of love/hate V4/V6/V8

So i am NOT adventurous anymore..got three already [headplay/I-cine Hi-res/AV920]
[/quote]

Okay now I get it..after reading more post from you.
Sounds like you know what you are looking for..hope you find it.

How do you like the Headplay ?
I was always worried the 3D with the Headplay would have a double image or ghosting like you see with shutter glasses since the headplay only has one screen, is that true or does the Headplay have less ghosting than shutter glasses ?
Have you done reviews of your HMD's ?