Meant to be Seen

adoral84 wrote:Here's a quick video of how I'm getting rid of the odd, floating out in space HUD elements, I think it's a big improvement as it's not a constant visual distraction that I found to be one of the biggest immersion breakers for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLOPOAGz-Ew

Wow that looks amazing, it was more than I could hope for. I can't wait to try it out. Why hasn't Valve offered you a job yet? Are they sitting on the fence still looking at what you will achieve?

Another question. Does Gordon have a 3D model in the game? There is at least render of the suit. And he might be wearing standard-ish clothes before that. Do you see where I am getting with this? How feasible do you think it is to do something like in TF2 VR? I guess you read Valves paper on VR, they at least talk a little of body integration. I'll see if I can find it and update this post.

Update: Here we go

Wow, that looks so interesting I did imagine it working like on the Halo assault rifle, but this is even less distracting

How do people know what's in their gun normally? By counting right? The thing with games is that the information is so easy to access compared to in real life that it would be a waste to not show it somehow!

In an even more sci-fi shooter I guess the ammo counters could be integrated into all the weapon designs, but I think this works well for now Do the HUD opacity correspond to the settings in config? I turned that up when I played HL2VR this summer as I had a hard time reading the normal HUD.

BOLL wrote:Wow, that looks so interesting I did imagine it working like on the Halo assault rifle, but this is even less distracting

How do people know what's in their gun normally? By counting right? The thing with games is that the information is so easy to access compared to in real life that it would be a waste to not show it somehow!

In an even more sci-fi shooter I guess the ammo counters could be integrated into all the weapon designs, but I think this works well for now Do the HUD opacity correspond to the settings in config? I turned that up when I played HL2VR this summer as I had a hard time reading the normal HUD.

You can still tweak the opacities in the clientres file, and we'll adjust it some more until it feels right. The pistol HUD in the video really doesn't show up well but in most cases it was fine and probably just needs another 40 points or so opacity in the config.

I think for something like the irifle an integrated readout would make sense, but a lot of the weapons in HL2 are just plain old normal guns so having your hud draw relevant data directly on lower tech objects seems plausible for a future HUD / AR solution.

What about if you when you crouch, not only does the camera go down like now. But the height at which you physically collide with objects gets reduced?
I am thinking it might completely eliminate the need for the crouch button while playing. Needing less buttons is great so I wont need an extra controller in my left hand. And even, it would be cool to have analog crouch height as well.

Also can maybe doing something similar for jumping. Is it easy to discern what must be an upwards pull that is a jump, then free-fall? If so maybe jumping can be done in analog as well.
N.B. Jumping forwards will be as simple as pushing the walking still forwards when jumping.

I hope I do not come off as demanding, I am simply trying to give you a different point of view on the problems, while I am sure that you are trying to make this as awesome as possible.

The mod is great. VReally, just great :p No motion sickness at all. The aiming could be better and I guess it is about to get better with the next update anyway.

My experience with the Rift, hydra and the mod:
1. Wires are breaking the immersion. The Rift has to be wireless.
2. As long as I am moving with buttons, it is hard for my brain to be fooled enough.
3. I have a fogging problem, even with this setup. So adding something like an omni for movement doesn't seem so feasible for me as I would be sweating like a pig with a HMD on my face, lost in fog.
This are not things that Nathan has to take care of, this are problems for Oculus to solve, really.

But I have an idea for a level design that would be perfect with this mod, TOTAL IMMERSION! (got a little excited there)

An on-rail kinda level with the main character on top of a moving thing, going through tunnels & stuff. dodging, crouching to avoid danger, looking around and aiming to shoot enemies. You shoot but miss a zombie, you have to crouch or to avoid his punch. Kinda like in HL2, coupled with the rollercoaster experience, but more like a scary tunnel with enemies and obstacles.

You could also be operating the gun in an armored vehicle or a boat during a battle. Not using the vehicle itself, that has to be up to the coop AI (a fixed path, really). Just a plain arcady shooter combined with modern VR tech. It would almost be a new genre, a blend of on-rail shooters, first person shooters and VR.

No need for an omni, no more moving with gamepad, wires would not be a problem as you almost always turn back and face the hydra station at some point and never need to turn 360 degrees. No need for a crouch button or a jump button. Actually no need for a gamepad at your left hand. All you do is look around with your head, crouch and dodge with your body (and turn sometimes) and aim&shoot freely. Things that work almost perfectly in this mod. I can't think of anything that would break the immersion.

I would make a level like that for this mod, if I only could It could be just perfect. And a concept demo can probably be put together using existing HL2 maps.

btw, I can't even begin to imagine the level of visual detail Carmack could achive if he was to put together such a demo with a fixed path

donkaradiablo wrote:You could also be operating the gun in an armored vehicle or a boat during a battle. Not using the vehicle itself, that has to be up to the coop AI (a fixed path, really). Just a plain arcady shooter combined with modern VR tech. It would almost be a new genre, a blend of on-rail shooters, first person shooters and VR.

Imho, this tech would be perfect for a resurgence of light gun shooters i.e. "Time Crisis" --- in 360°.

Ashok wrote:

donkaradiablo wrote:You could also be operating the gun in an armored vehicle or a boat during a battle. Not using the vehicle itself, that has to be up to the coop AI (a fixed path, really). Just a plain arcady shooter combined with modern VR tech. It would almost be a new genre, a blend of on-rail shooters, first person shooters and VR.

Imho, this tech would be perfect for a resurgence of light gun shooters i.e. "Time Crisis" --- in 360°.

I spent so many coins on that game as a kid, and when I finally bought the PS3 version it was crap
It would be nice for an emulated version to be rifted!

Oh and if anyone didn't know or didn't remember, when the character moves to a new spot you are zoomed out to 3rd person view, and zoomed back to first person again when the "on rails" movement is done.

donkaradiablo, take a look at "Hydra Cover Shooter" I think he will soon release a level editor for that game. You should make a level, and script some on rails action to it.

donkaradiablo wrote: My experience with the Rift, hydra and the mod:
1. Wires are breaking the immersion. The Rift has to be wireless.
2. As long as I am moving with buttons, it is hard for my brain to be fooled enough.
3. I have a fogging problem, even with this setup. So adding something like an omni for movement doesn't seem so feasible for me as I would be sweating like a pig with a HMD on my face, lost in fog.
...

But I have an idea for a level design that would be perfect with this mod, TOTAL IMMERSION! (got a little excited there)

An on-rail kinda level with the main character on top of a moving thing, going through tunnels & stuff....

I had a nearly verbatim conversation with a coworker about where things are... Well except number 3, I don't have fogging issues but I'd replace that with the rift drift that occurs because it's using the older oculus sdk without drift correction. I also don't care as much about the rift being wireless as the hydras, but that would obviously be incredible as I think I can come up with something like a tool rebalancer from the ceiling that should give a lot of freedom.

I definitely agree with making a VR specific map with a properly mapped physical space and actual movement ( I think I may make a VR rendition of "on a rail" from HL1 for this. The ability to use multiple STEM bases to extend a capture volume is going to be so awesome. Ideally once I have the STEM to work with you can move freely about your own space and only use the stick for larger scale movements, and we can work in some way to set up bounds so that the game warns you when you get near the edges.

The new release is shaping up nicely, there are a ton of tweaks, fixes, and some entirely new features. I think we're getting close to proper game release levels of polish. EP2 is also in the works and then I'll be working on getting mine & the cinematic mod running together properly.

I was completely addicted to Time Crisis as a kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY_Cqfyf4uY

adoral84 wrote:

donkaradiablo wrote: My experience with the Rift, hydra and the mod:
1. Wires are breaking the immersion. The Rift has to be wireless.
2. As long as I am moving with buttons, it is hard for my brain to be fooled enough.
3. I have a fogging problem, even with this setup. So adding something like an omni for movement doesn't seem so feasible for me as I would be sweating like a pig with a HMD on my face, lost in fog.
...

But I have an idea for a level design that would be perfect with this mod, TOTAL IMMERSION! (got a little excited there)

An on-rail kinda level with the main character on top of a moving thing, going through tunnels & stuff....

I had a nearly verbatim conversation with a coworker about where things are... Well except number 3, I don't have fogging issues but I'd replace that with the rift drift that occurs because it's using the older oculus sdk without drift correction. I also don't care as much about the rift being wireless as the hydras, but that would obviously be incredible as I think I can come up with something like a tool rebalancer from the ceiling that should give a lot of freedom.

I definitely agree with making a VR specific map with a properly mapped physical space and actual movement ( I think I may make a VR rendition of "on a rail" from HL1 for this. The ability to use multiple STEM bases to extend a capture volume is going to be so awesome. Ideally once I have the STEM to work with you can move freely about your own space and only use the stick for larger scale movements, and we can work in some way to set up bounds so that the game warns you when you get near the edges.

The new release is shaping up nicely, there are a ton of tweaks, fixes, and some entirely new features. I think we're getting close to proper game release levels of polish. EP2 is also in the works and then I'll be working on getting mine & the cinematic mod running together properly.

I was completely addicted to Time Crisis as a kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY_Cqfyf4uY

Awesome stuff adoral, this is great to hear and see. Please let us know once Episode 1 is complete/available and also let us know how to set it up.

Thanks, cant wait to play it with the Rift and Hydra!

adoral84 wrote: I think I may make a VR rendition of "on a rail" from HL1 for this

That would be a great starting point for people to get the experience. Oh and I should try the buggy and boat levels in HL2.

Half Life 2 is one of the best, if not the best, VR experience i've had in Rift, but how do you combat motion sickness? Because i really can't play it, any lateral movement makes me sick. Do you get used to it?

D3n wrote:Half Life 2 is one of the best, if not the best, VR experience i've had in Rift, but how do you combat motion sickness? Because i really can't play it, any lateral movement makes me sick. Do you get used to it?

Have you tried playing with the left razor hydra strapped to your chest? Use this control scheme by setting the console command "mt_control_mode 2" without the quotes.

I have had no, I repeat no motion sickness with any demo that uses this control scheme. (save for one time in half life I fell trough the floor, I got a little nauseous then)

No, no hydra here, just a gamepad. I get sick when i have to turn around with the stick. Standing helps a little bit than sitting down, but i have to physically turn around and i get tangled in cables.

D3n wrote:No, no hydra here, just a gamepad. I get sick when i have to turn around with the stick. Standing helps a little bit than sitting down, but i have to physically turn around and i get tangled in cables.

There is your problem, you turn around with the stick some times with the hydra as well, but I do not get motion sick. With the Hydra strapped to your chest, it tracks your torso so you get much better 1:1 movement of the head.

Waiting for multiplayer version of mod is killing me.
will we be able to play it with wiimote guns setup?

I posted a new video of HL2VR + CM2013 sort of working:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBBFUN30Tr0

I got it to work with HL2VR weapon models, but for some reason the scripted events and AI is broken. Anyways, major props adoral84 for your incredible mod. Take your time on the Episodes for now, I just wanted to show that both mods are close to working.

This seems sooo cool, really need to buy a Hydra for this one.
Whats the plan for integrating a player body?

virror wrote:This seems sooo cool, really need to buy a Hydra for this one.
Whats the plan for integrating a player body?

AFAIK its on the wanted features list for the developer. But I don't know of any progress.
There is some talk about how to do this for the source engine in Valves dokuments on what they learned porting TF2 over to the Oculus Rift.

Ashok wrote:I posted a new video of HL2VR + CM2013 sort of working:
I got it to work with HL2VR weapon models, but for some reason the scripted events and AI is broken. Anyways, major props adoral84 for your incredible mod. Take your time on the Episodes for now, I just wanted to show that both mods are close to working.

Very cool, if you could post the details about the how you got it that far it'd be really helpful when I start looking into it. It really does step up the visual fidelity quite a bit, how's the framerate when running both?

Ziggurat wrote: AFAIK its on the wanted features list for the developer. But I don't know of any progress.
There is some talk about how to do this for the source engine in Valves dokuments on what they learned porting TF2 over to the Oculus Rift.

It's something that I'll work on once all the content is ported over but it'll be significantly more difficult that what valve did with TF2, they only had to support 3dof weapon movement within the bounded keyhole angles, where I'd need to support 6dof without the boundings. Getting the arm positions to feel right in all the possible positions will be a huge pain, I'm not sure I've seen a demo yet where it's been nailed.

adoral84 wrote:

Ziggurat wrote: AFAIK its on the wanted features list for the developer. But I don't know of any progress.
There is some talk about how to do this for the source engine in Valves dokuments on what they learned porting TF2 over to the Oculus Rift.

It's something that I'll work on once all the content is ported over but it'll be significantly more difficult that what valve did with TF2, they only had to support 3dof weapon movement within the bounded keyhole angles, where I'd need to support 6dof without the boundings. Getting the arm positions to feel right in all the possible positions will be a huge pain, I'm not sure I've seen a demo yet where it's been nailed.

I agree, I have not seen a demo of inverse kinematics done well enough.
Then the question is, is a static body with legs moving according to gamepad input better than nothing? Does it feel better with regular play than being a ghost?
Is inverse kinematics like Crashland good enough for now? And does it feel better with regular play than being a ghost?
This is really what it comes down to when you ask your self if it you should look into those features This was just meant as constructive discussion. Personally I think (guessing) that the static body is better than no body, and inverse kinematics is better than static body. If it makes sense to develop one then continue to the other I hope you release them in updates

I just think that a hella lot of crap has to be done to get better than crashland-ish inverse kinematics, and probably cant feel just right without more hardware.

adoral84 wrote:Very cool, if you could post the details about the how you got it that far it'd be really helpful when I start looking into it. It really does step up the visual fidelity quite a bit, how's the framerate when running both?

Oops, I probably should have noted that I did include further details in the YouTube description. Basically, I just copied:

/halflife-vr/bin to /CM2013/hl2/bin and
/halflife-vr/models/weapons to /CM2013_MOD/hl2/custom/1_CM_looseFiles/m­odels/weapons

The G-Man intro hangs, so to get in-game I loaded the next map manually via the console with: map d1_trainstation_02

Your HL2VR mod works fine, but scripted sequences i.e. the strider walking down the street don't kick in. The AI is also broken (the Combine officer didn't tell Gordon to pick up the can, the guards didn't bust down the door in the apartments, etc.). I was able to fix this by reverting /bin/client.dll and /bin/server.dll to the original files included in FAKEFACTORY's CM2013 mod, but this obviously axes your HL2VR mod. And CM2013 looks gorgeous but kills my framerate. I average ~90 fps with the vanilla game, and I average ~45 fps with CM2013. I'm using an nVidia GTX 570 with 1GB of VRAM, so if you get CM2013 fully working I'll finally have a great excuse to buy a new GPU with 4GB of VRAM.

Hi Guys,

Any news on when this update will be available? Waiting eagerly to play HL2 with rift + hydras.

Thanks

GameDev wrote:Hi Guys,

Any news on when this update will be available? Waiting eagerly to play HL2 with rift + hydras.

Thanks

This week has been busier than usual at work and I haven't been able to put in as much time as I'd like, I'll release it by sunday at the latest but I could use some help playtesting it, so if you're up for it shoot me a pm. I'll be releasing it this sunday at the latest ( wife out of town, lots of coding time in store )

Superb, really looking forward to this Sunday (more or less . no pressure and all that )

I must confess I had recently taking to seeing what you and wormslayer had been posting on reddit to see how close you were getting. (Sorry for being a stalking weirdo). But the anticipation is great and I had held off trying the last release as you mentioned a new one was on the way

I think Wormslayer sums it up perfectly:
--------------------------------
Half Life VR: Crashing gravity gun? by lipplogin oculus
[–]WormSlayer 2 points 2 days ago
My professional advice would be to wait for us to release the next version of HLVR, then play the poop out of it
--------------------------------------------

I definitely intend to oh slayer of worms

Awesome news adoral84, can't wait! Also, just for reference... I was playing w/ your mod and Cinematic Mod 2013 and it seems the compatibility issues are isolated to "server.dll". After merging the mods, I found that:

CM2013 client.dll + CM2013 server.dll = CM2013 works, no HL2VR
HL2VR client.dll + HL2VR server.dll = CM2013 works, HL2VR works, AI is broken
HL2VR client.dll + CM2013 server.dll = Maps fail to load
CM2013 client.dll + HL2VR server.dll = CM2013 works, no HL2VR, AI is broken

Awesome news adoral, thanks alot. Sending you a PM now.

BTW guys i had been trying to play on version 1.1 release, with both hydra and rift. What is the best controls option to go for in your experiences? I was going to attach left hydra in bumbag to chest for positional tracking, to get rid of some motion sickness. But not sure which control option i need to go for. Any advice?

Thanks

Is it possiblbe to play this the "default valve" way without the hydra?
Seems like there are a bunch of VR related improvements that's not related to the hydra support compared to the native valve version.

virror wrote:Is it possiblbe to play this the "default valve" way without the hydra?
Seems like there are a bunch of VR related improvements that's not related to the hydra support compared to the native valve version.

What you are saying is correct, and no.

you can pick up these next summer http://sixense.com/wireless

I think virror is referring to the ability to play without a hydra. Right now it's not possible, but I do plan to eventually get around to adding gamepad support back in, and maybe even hydra w/o rift support since I get asked that alot.

The latest release is out now by the way:

http://www.roadtovr.com/hl2vr-mod-half- ... -download/

video at the link... Sweet

I would be much more interested in nailing the VR experience with a hydra and a rift and whatever else is necessary for the perfect experience for the core VR enthusiast before going after the "rift only" or "hydra only" paths but maybe that's just me. But for me, this is R&D for the rest of the community, providing a benchmark point for the industry (do better games than this free mod, or die) (at least be dead to the VR community)

I admire the work and appreciate the time you put into this mod.

donkaradiablo wrote: I would be much more interested in nailing the VR experience with a hydra and a rift and whatever else is necessary for the perfect experience for the core VR enthusiast before going after the "rift only" or "hydra only" paths but maybe that's just me. But for me, this is R&D for the rest of the community, providing a benchmark point for the industry (do better games than this free mod, or die) (at least be dead to the VR community)

That's generally how I feel as well, which is why I haven't added support yet and won't until I have the core mechanics down. I'm sure developers will have no problem doing far cooler VR specific stuff in games built from scratch for it, but I'm glad to hopefully at least help push the community to expect a bit more. There are so many kickstarters that appear to be throwing out 'rift support' as a quick way to get attention. Hopefully they'll do a proper integration, I really don't want PC games with a rift on to be the standard over the next year or two.

I suspected as much and i totally agree that the focus should be on the full VR approach.
Proud packer of the STEM system so i guess i have to wait until then to get the best HL2 experience : D

Btw, anyone here know how to change the walk speed in HL2? Makes me very nauseous to always run around in super speed : /

hl2_normspeed ( the mod uses about 110 )
hl2_sprintspeed
hl2_walkspeed

You can also tweak cl_sidespeed ( I think it's cl_ ) if you want to further slow down lateral movement which is generally the worst for nausea

Awesome, thanx a lot!

with the mode where you attach the hydra to your chest (2 or 3, can't remember).

Is it true that leaning forward / back doesn't work? Only side/side? Not sure if I'm doing something wrong. everything looks great, but if I lean forward to get a closer look at something, it seems off.

Anyway, just wondering.

Leaning forward and back should work the same as anything else, if it's not you may have a bad calibration or maybe you're leaning too close to the hydra base? It tracks pretty bad directly above it.


A lot of the feedback I've gotten with the mod is around the grenades, with no standard crosshair and no laser dot ( a grenade laser dot just seems weird ), it was basically impossible to aim properly. This is a *really* early video of some stuff I'm playing with for the grenade primary throws. I'll also be switching the secondary attack "lob" to allow actual motion throws using the hydra. The sprites used for the arc in the video are placeholders. This is essentially trying to maintain the same HEV suit with augmented reality hud that I did with the weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlrDgAG47I

Cool.

That grenade GUI looks really functional (far better than the one in HL2 normally), but why not let the user actually physically "throw" the grenade using the hydra controller? It seems like a bit of a wasted opportunity! The initial velocity of the grenade could have a flat multiplier on it if this should be impractical for gameplay (I imagine it might be hard to throw as hard as Gordon can).

I've tried Sixense Tuscany, and experienced the difficulties throwing objects there - they would often go in unintended directions or speeds. I believe the issue was that I'm pretty sure the object's initial velocity/direction was assigned precisely at the moment the trigger was released, whereas in real life the velocity is actually going to be the maximum that your hand reached near the end of the throw. Just something to consider.

The Grenade gui looks great.

I have a weird problem since i installed the latest version( i just reinstalled it over the previous version, without uninstalling previous version), the "-vr" flag doesnt do anything, launching regular HL2 works no problem and if i modify the .bat that comes with the mod it works fine, any ideas?( im sure its not the mod and probably some messed up steam issue ). Ill reinstall the mod again tonight, just wondering if anyone has seen this?

lmimmfn wrote:The Grenade gui looks great.

I have a weird problem since i installed the latest version( i just reinstalled it over the previous version, without uninstalling previous version), the "-vr" flag doesnt do anything, launching regular HL2 works no problem and if i modify the .bat that comes with the mod it works fine, any ideas?( im sure its not the mod and probably some messed up steam issue ). Ill reinstall the mod again tonight, just wondering if anyone has seen this?

Was the latest version you were using 1.1 or one of the source 2007 versions? I haven't seen anything like that, but steam restarts sometimes help with those issues.

TheHolyChicken wrote:That grenade GUI looks really functional (far better than the one in HL2 normally), but why not let the user actually physically "throw" the grenade using the hydra controller? It seems like a bit of a wasted opportunity!

Yep, that's what I was referring to with

I'll also be switching the secondary attack "lob" to allow actual motion throws using the hydra.

I'm allowing both motion throws and normal throws because there are places in the game that require a distance and level of accuracy (taking out snipers for a distance for example) that I don't think I can achieve with motion throws and current hardware, but I think they'll be completely usable and a lot more immersive for most scenarios ( throwing a grenade down a hallway our around a door ).