Meant to be Seen

Hi all,

Have just registered here for the sole purpose of the Oculus Rift devkit discussions with all you cool people. Have been lurking for a few months but decided to register as things are starting to get interesting about now, what with the devkits about to ship and all!

I am a massive tech enthusiast and gamer, run my own small Indie Dev studio and once I have gotten tired of playing TF2 on my devkit I am fully intending to produce some sort of experience/game for use with the Rift.

FYI, devkit kickstarter backer order no. #888X so not sure if I'll be in the initial shipping batch, but hopefully won't have to wait too long!

Carry on.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AN2c5QYPj0[/youtube]

Direlight wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AN2c5QYPj0[/youtube]

Crazy to think that this video was recorded just 11 months after Palmer made this thread. To look at the first post and then back here...

Makes you believe in a consumer version in another 11 months.

Definitely possible.

I'm kind of torn regarding how quickly I get my rift.

on the one hand I'm dying to get my hands on it yesterday. On the other - as a non-dev tech enthusiast - it'd be good to let the proper devs have theirs for a while so I have more content to enjoy when mine turns up.

you know what? this seems to be a very smart solution:
well, preferably not a shoe but something attachable to every shoe

Nike Air Maxes and Wii Balance Board Mod

oculus rift

(consumer version with high resolution and positional tracking)

coupled with a sensor like the leap motion (on the rift) to get your hands in the game:


(also to get your peripherals like steering wheels in the game, with real time 3d mapping a la kinect)

and a mic & headphone input on the rift
voice commands a la kinect
you'll be able to hear yourself and the game engine will be able to make it sound like you're in a cave when you're in a cave in the game.

and a cell phone battery to make it wireless

and something like this or hydra for shooters:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHD3Lwll7q8[/youtube]


I really hope Oculus comes up with a complete solution like this. I hoped Valve's SteamBox would be it. But you know who else would love something like that? Disney!
DisneyBox, "Disney in every home"
Star Wars, Marvel and Pixar characters in comic books, cartoons, movies, games, virtual realities and theme parks...

"I really hope Oculus comes up with a complete solution like this. I hoped Valve's SteamBox would be it. But you know who else would love something like that? Disney!
DisneyBox, "Disney in every home"
Star Wars, Marvel and Pixar characters in comic books, cartoons, movies, games, virtual realities and theme parks..."



yep and this was the disney vice director who was impressed by his oculus try

Wow, this thread has just crossed the 4000 posts milestone.
I guess the DevKits can start shipping now.

An Iron Man game where you can fly and shoot lasers and a Star Wars game where you get to use a lightsaber and the force. Two killer apps that would make the platform crush everything in it's way

I hope a not-so-distant future consumer rift (not the first one, but maybe the Rift 2.0 in 2015/2016) comes with:

- a 4K 120Hz OLED display with 120° hFOV
- a seated/standing foot controller for turning and moving forward/backward and left/right
- hands tracking with a solid 6DOF controller for tactile feedback and additional buttons
- dual front FullHD 3D cams for augmented reality (and hands tracking?)
- eye tracking to properly redirect the avatar's gaze (for online face-to-face talking) and eventually for smart rendering (render at full resoltion only a small circle around the user's gaze direction)
- variable focus liquid lenses (coupled with eye tracking) to allow eyes to converge focus at different distances like in real life
- integrated mic in the lower part of the rift to allow ultra directional voice capture thus canceling almost all external sounds and allow better voice recognition
- integrated USB audio DAC and headphones amplifier (and a binaural audio SDK) with a 3.5" jack on the rift to let the user choose his preferred headphones
- optional wireless connection: maybe a simple hardware MJPEG encoder into the box and a decoder into the Rift to greatly reduce bandwidth

Then, we can start talking about vestibular stimulation, eye-contact OLED lenses, precise EEG input devices, direct muscular stimulation, direct nerve connection and so on 'till the Oculus Matrix in 20/30 years from now

crespo80 wrote: - integrated USB audio DAC and headphones amplifier (and a binaural audio SDK) with a 3.5" jack on the rift to let the user choose his preferred headphones

No thanks, I'd like to choose my DACs and amps myself, as well as what headphones I use

SiggiG wrote: No thanks, I'd like to choose my DACs and amps myself, as well as what headphones I use

You can use a DAC of your choice, if you're OK with an additional cable, but an integrated DAC is the way to go if we eventually want a fully wireless HMD. You don't want to listen to your high quality recordings inside a rift (I personally listen to music with my eyes shut), and a not-too-fancy cleverly-engineered external DAC is way better than any integrated high-end sound card for the purpose of virtual reality

crespo80 wrote:

SiggiG wrote: No thanks, I'd like to choose my DACs and amps myself, as well as what headphones I use

You can use a DAC of your choice, if you're OK with an additional cable, but an integrated DAC is the way to go if we eventually want a fully wireless HMD. You don't want to listen to your high quality recordings inside a rift (I personally listen to music with my eyes shut), and a not-too-fancy cleverly-engineered external DAC is way better than any integrated high-end sound card for the purpose of virtual reality

So what you're saying is that VR doesn't need good audio quality? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree, esp. once people want to play around with proper HRTF audio. I play my games with a Xonar Essence STX and Sennheiser HD 650

While I agree that a wireless HMD would be nice, I don't really see it happening. You need power for the display, headphones etc. and I'd rather have a light cable than having to wear a vest with battery packs.
You could do this for specialized "VR rooms", or just dangle a cable from the ceiling.

No need to fight – unless the Rift comes with integrated headphones, one can simply select a different audio output device in the system preferences.

SiggiG wrote:

crespo80 wrote:

SiggiG wrote: No thanks, I'd like to choose my DACs and amps myself, as well as what headphones I use

You can use a DAC of your choice, if you're OK with an additional cable, but an integrated DAC is the way to go if we eventually want a fully wireless HMD. You don't want to listen to your high quality recordings inside a rift (I personally listen to music with my eyes shut), and a not-too-fancy cleverly-engineered external DAC is way better than any integrated high-end sound card for the purpose of virtual reality

So what you're saying is that VR doesn't need good audio quality? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree, esp. once people want to play around with proper HRTF audio. I play my games with a Xonar Essence STX and Sennheiser HD 650

While I agree that a wireless HMD would be nice, I don't really see it happening. You need power for the display, headphones etc. and I'd rather have a light cable than having to wear a vest with battery packs.
You could do this for specialized "VR rooms", or just dangle a cable from the ceiling.

The power is an easy solution. Wireless video is going to be the hard part. I'll be interested in sticking a power monitor onto the oculus and seeing what it's drawing. I suspect very little.

There is some sense in having a soundcard / headphones built in. It makes a standard to build against.
I would say you are a small minority in regards to owning high quality headphones along with a amp and DAC. Most people do not. Most people don't even use headphones, they are content with their crappy laptop speakers and crummy bundled ipod earbuds.

My suggestion for a commercial rift would be to have a official oculus sound thing(with a mic) that is sold separately and as a bundle with the rift.

jjrh wrote:

SiggiG wrote: So what you're saying is that VR doesn't need good audio quality? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree, esp. once people want to play around with proper HRTF audio. I play my games with a Xonar Essence STX and Sennheiser HD 650

While I agree that a wireless HMD would be nice, I don't really see it happening. You need power for the display, headphones etc. and I'd rather have a light cable than having to wear a vest with battery packs.
You could do this for specialized "VR rooms", or just dangle a cable from the ceiling.

The power is an easy solution. Wireless video is going to be the hard part. I'll be interested in sticking a power monitor onto the oculus and seeing what it's drawing. I suspect very little.

There is some sense in having a soundcard / headphones built in. It makes a standard to build against.
I would say you are a small minority in regards to owning high quality headphones along with a amp and DAC. Most people do not. Most people don't even use headphones, they are content with their crappy laptop speakers and crummy bundled ipod earbuds.

My suggestion for a commercial rift would be to have a official oculus sound thing(with a mic) that is sold separately and as a bundle with the rift.

How about something like this:
http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-AT-PCLINK- ... ender.html

Direlight wrote:

(EDIT: additionally, getting Wii-anythings to play nice with Windows is a complete -EXPURGATED-, trust me);

Never had this problem, takes me 30 seconds to 1 minute to sync with glovepie. I know best method though after years of use.

You misunderstand me - while I did have some difficulties getting GlovePIE scripts interacting with my Wiimotes, continue to struggle to find optimal smoothing settings, couldn't even get PPJoy to install recently, etc., that whole bundle of headaches isn't the worst problem. For hobbyists experimenting with weird controllers, GlovePIE is a godsend - but what about a professional game developer who wants to create a computer game that utilizes Wiimotes? His customers can be safely assumed to be people who have never and will never directly run a script of any kind, much less go through the daunting process of putting their PCs into "Test Mode", etc. His game could be the most compelling experience in the history of video games - the only people who would ever play it would be the tiny niche of us who have had successful experiences with GlovePIE. Show me a PC-based video game that natively uses Wiimotes for input without the need for GlovePIE or other middleware, just one, I'll wait. Gun Frenzy 2? Very good, that is one - but please note that guy's claim to fame isn't the game itself, but personally writing the library that enabled Wiimotes to be used in that way. I've yet to see a single other game that utilizes this library even though such a thing has been demonstrated as possible.

Regarding that Balance Board demo, I saw it long ago and was just as unimpressed then. It's possible to do this, yes, possible - but is it compelling? How easy is it to get reliable movement out of one? That poor dude's gnome was crashing his face into logs and carts with something resembling sexual enthusiasm. And can you even operate a Balance Board from a seated position, or does it require full body weight to be effective? I don't want a proof of concept, I want a thorough review of the entire technique as it relates to possible mainstream usage cases. If I have to go out and buy a Balance Board and post such a thing myself, I will.

#1 reason I wish I backed the kickstarter: So I would get my Rift earlier.
#2 reason: being allowed in the kickstarter comment section, so I could tell plummett to shut the **** up

jaybug wrote:#1 reason I wish I backed the kickstarter: So I would get my Rift earlier.
#2 reason: being allowed in the kickstarter comment section, so I could tell plummett to shut the **** up

That guy is pretty annoying, it's just trolling and spam at this point from him. I wish there was some kind of moderation on KS to regulate bozos like him, or at least give them a warning of some kind. I'm all for constructive criticism, but when it devolves into petty name calling and trollish messages like his all it does is pollute the comments section. Someone needs to give him a cookie.

jaybug wrote:#1 reason I wish I backed the kickstarter: So I would get my Rift earlier.
#2 reason: being allowed in the kickstarter comment section, so I could tell plummett to shut the **** up

Moaning about the pixellation making you sick WTF is he on about ?

Pixellation never made anyone ill, latency and idiots like him make people ill and from what I can see the latency on the rift will be more or less zero, which is amazing.

What really gets my goat is uninformed people (and I'm not including the techie guys on here) who go on about motion sickness and pixellation when they have:

1: Never seen/worn the Rift and experienced it's tracking
2: Never actually had a decent HMD anywhere near their head or experienced proper tracking
3. Think that some cheap HMD they picked up on ebay or at ToysrUS is a good baseline to make judgements from

Also what the hell is he going on about Palmer being led down the wrong path by *evil* businessmen? If he'd read the updates he's have seen the panel they wanted to use wasn't available in the quantities they wanted so rather than delay again they used the best available, end of no conspiracy.


Rant over

V8Griff wrote:

jaybug wrote:#1 reason I wish I backed the kickstarter: So I would get my Rift earlier.
#2 reason: being allowed in the kickstarter comment section, so I could tell plummett to shut the **** up

Moaning about the pixellation making you sick WTF is he on about ?

Pixellation never made anyone ill, latency and idiots like him make people ill and from what I can see the latency on the rift will be more or less zero, which is amazing.

What really gets my goat is uninformed people (and I'm not including the techie guys on here) who go on about motion sickness and pixellation when they have:

1: Never seen/worn the Rift and experienced it's tracking
2: Never actually had a decent HMD anywhere near their head or experienced proper tracking
3. Think that some cheap HMD they picked up on ebay or at ToysrUS is a good baseline to make judgements from

Also what the hell is he going on about Palmer being led down the wrong path by *evil* businessmen? If he'd read the updates he's have seen the panel they wanted to use wasn't available in the quantities they wanted so rather than delay again they used the best available, end of no conspiracy.


Rant over

+1

Leahy wrote:

Alkapwn wrote:What about this for seated gameplay while NOT using a mouse. So a 1:1 gun tracker for example. Instead of focusing on the feet or the chair, why not focus on something more intuitive, the shoulders.

A simple soft button/pressure device you clip to the back of your chair that either:

Senses when you lift your shoulder off the trigger and turns you the opposite direction until you straighten your shoulders again, stopping the rotation.

Senses when your shoulder presses the button in the direction that you turn your shoulders, and then stops rotation when you lift off again.

Would easily mount to almost any office chair. Would be easily customized for user sizes. Uses your default turning mechanics you use everyday. Thoughts?

I think it would be the perfect cheap solution for turning only.

But if you're using a gun with a tracker on it, I think that may be all you need. Just something to keep you orientated in a more or less static direction while still managing to give the illusion of turning. The walking would be mapped to the analog stick on the gun anyways. This for sure wouldn't work for mouse and keyboard sadly. Unless you put them both on a slightly spinning lazy susan thing or something.

Anyone else think this could be doable? It might be really easy to implement since the buttons would only have to trigger turn left and turn right. Not too tricky I assume to add into existing games.

bizarrobrian wrote:

jjrh wrote:

SiggiG wrote: So what you're saying is that VR doesn't need good audio quality? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree, esp. once people want to play around with proper HRTF audio. I play my games with a Xonar Essence STX and Sennheiser HD 650

While I agree that a wireless HMD would be nice, I don't really see it happening. You need power for the display, headphones etc. and I'd rather have a light cable than having to wear a vest with battery packs.
You could do this for specialized "VR rooms", or just dangle a cable from the ceiling.

The power is an easy solution. Wireless video is going to be the hard part. I'll be interested in sticking a power monitor onto the oculus and seeing what it's drawing. I suspect very little.

There is some sense in having a soundcard / headphones built in. It makes a standard to build against.
I would say you are a small minority in regards to owning high quality headphones along with a amp and DAC. Most people do not. Most people don't even use headphones, they are content with their crappy laptop speakers and crummy bundled ipod earbuds.

My suggestion for a commercial rift would be to have a official oculus sound thing(with a mic) that is sold separately and as a bundle with the rift.

How about something like this:
http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-AT-PCLINK- ... ender.html

The tech certainly exists, the problem would be latency. That NVidia 'project shield' thing might be worth keeping a eye on. If the latency is acceptable for use with the rift, using the thing wirelessly may be very possible.

There are a lot of interesting possibilities with using the oculus wirelessly. Providing you could semi accurate positional data to the meter level accuracy, you could make some neat games - think 'LARP' (not really my thing) in a big field.

SiggiG wrote:

crespo80 wrote:

SiggiG wrote: No thanks, I'd like to choose my DACs and amps myself, as well as what headphones I use

You can use a DAC of your choice, if you're OK with an additional cable, but an integrated DAC is the way to go if we eventually want a fully wireless HMD. You don't want to listen to your high quality recordings inside a rift (I personally listen to music with my eyes shut), and a not-too-fancy cleverly-engineered external DAC is way better than any integrated high-end sound card for the purpose of virtual reality

So what you're saying is that VR doesn't need good audio quality? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree, esp. once people want to play around with proper HRTF audio. I play my games with a Xonar Essence STX and Sennheiser HD 650

While I agree that a wireless HMD would be nice, I don't really see it happening. You need power for the display, headphones etc. and I'd rather have a light cable than having to wear a vest with battery packs.
You could do this for specialized "VR rooms", or just dangle a cable from the ceiling.

Is your smart phone powered with a vest full of battery packs? It has sensors, a display and headphone jack you know (and more). We're talking about a complete solution and you're saying it would make more sense if it didn't include audio? Really?

So you want to use your "Xonar Essence STX". Who's stopping you? Oculus Rift having an integrated solution wouldn't stop people from using theirs. But it would enable a wireless desing. And a headphone jack would give you the option to use high quality headphones and get good results anyway. I prefer using Grado over "Sennheiser" and avoiding extra wires breaking the immersion if I can.

Alkapwn wrote:

Leahy wrote:

Alkapwn wrote:What about this for seated gameplay while NOT using a mouse. So a 1:1 gun tracker for example. Instead of focusing on the feet or the chair, why not focus on something more intuitive, the shoulders.

A simple soft button/pressure device you clip to the back of your chair that either:

Senses when you lift your shoulder off the trigger and turns you the opposite direction until you straighten your shoulders again, stopping the rotation.

Senses when your shoulder presses the button in the direction that you turn your shoulders, and then stops rotation when you lift off again.

Would easily mount to almost any office chair. Would be easily customized for user sizes. Uses your default turning mechanics you use everyday. Thoughts?

I think it would be the perfect cheap solution for turning only.

But if you're using a gun with a tracker on it, I think that may be all you need. Just something to keep you orientated in a more or less static direction while still managing to give the illusion of turning. The walking would be mapped to the analog stick on the gun anyways. This for sure wouldn't work for mouse and keyboard sadly. Unless you put them both on a slightly spinning lazy susan thing or something.

Anyone else think this could be doable? It might be really easy to implement since the buttons would only have to trigger turn left and turn right. Not too tricky I assume to add into existing games.

One thing I considered today is that I think most people don't use a computer in a fully relaxed position with their shoulders pressed against a high-backed chair. Using shoulders in a sitting position requires being in 'sitting back' type position and if someone wants to use a typical low-backed computer chair in front of a desk it won't work.

On another note, using a gun I guess you could add the turning to the butt of the shoulder stock with a hefty dead zone.

Shoulder blade cushions are more something I imagined without a gun so that you can control the character with or without holding a gun. I was thinking that the mouse could then be just the gun direction in the absence of a tracked gun.

This would be easy to make but I leave the idea to a company which can persuade devs to allow implementation *cough* oculus *cough*

A little video from GTC 2013 where even though we can see the new dev kit as it will come to us, the employee from Oculus is showcasing that old prototype

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1785afLNFw[/youtube]

nothing noticeable here just trying to make these days more bearable until the kit arrives, Go Oculus!!

SiggiG wrote:

crespo80 wrote: - integrated USB audio DAC and headphones amplifier (and a binaural audio SDK) with a 3.5" jack on the rift to let the user choose his preferred headphones

No thanks, I'd like to choose my DACs and amps myself, as well as what headphones I use

No thanks, I'd like my game audio streamed to a custom device that produces analog audio on a continuous ribbon of wax that instantly hardens and then passes through a modified $300,000 Goldmun T8 reference turntable. .. because, you know, I take my gaming audio seriously.

Wasn't this thread over 250 pages today or yesterday?

Just noticed it's now 101 has something been cut out or have the numbers of posts per page been increased or something?

Yeah, saw that too...

V8Griff wrote:Wasn't this thread over 250 pages today or yesterday?

Just noticed it's now 101 has something been cut out or have the numbers of posts per page been increased or something?

PPP was doubled to 40 per page to speed up browsing. The expansion of the forum made that change become the more efficient course. Before, it was not an issue.

The # of posts per page was upped to 40:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 73#p109884

mscoder610 wrote:The # of posts per page was upped to 40:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 73#p109884

Ah didn't see that, good thinking.

The point about vests and shoulder turning rigs and the like perhaps deserves its own thread, but the idea is a total nonstarter. You guys are still thinking like monitor users - the whole point of the Rift is that you can turn all the way around and look behind you and actually see something. Character rotation is a thumbstick or a foot controller, period. I'm fully prepared to change my mind about that, but only in the presence of a compelling demonstration.

nateight wrote:The point about vests and shoulder turning rigs and the like perhaps deserves its own thread, but the idea is a total nonstarter. You guys are still thinking like monitor users - the whole point of the Rift is that you can turn all the way around and look behind you and actually see something. Character rotation is a thumbstick or a foot controller, period. I'm fully prepared to change my mind about that, but only in the presence of a compelling demonstration.

I agree with your comment about people thinking like monitor users, that was always a problem with the Virtuality systems and new players.

I think the purest way of turning a character is by having it associated with a tracked joystick with a simple button system that when pressed allows the character to turn in the direction that the hand is pointing and when the button is not pressed then the hand moves and the character maintains it's orientation without turning.

(I hope that makes sense?)

KBK wrote:

V8Griff wrote:Wasn't this thread over 250 pages today or yesterday?

Just noticed it's now 101 has something been cut out or have the numbers of posts per page been increased or something?

PPP was doubled to 40 per page to speed up browsing. The expansion of the forum made that change become the more efficient course. Before, it was not an issue.

Phew! I thought I had slipped into some parallel reality where the Oculus Rift was exactly half as popular as it used to be

@V8Griff
Not sure if I understood, but it presents the idea; I will give a go at having a button on the razor (edit: hydra) do the turning depending from how far from 'centre' the control is. It's an exciting prospect as it will allow very fast turns and also fine speed control for turning. It also sounds quite intuitive. Sort of like the crosshair screen edge turn, without the annoyance of accidentally turning. I imagine you have a primary interaction/weapon hand and then the offhand controls the turning.

MichaelH wrote:@V8Griff
Not sure if I understood, but it presents the idea; I will give a go at having a button on the razor (edit: hydra) do the turning depending from how far from 'centre' the control is. It's an exciting prospect as it will allow very fast turns and also fine speed control for turning. It also sounds quite intuitive. Sort of like the crosshair screen edge turn, without the annoyance of accidentally turning. I imagine you have a primary interaction/weapon hand and then the offhand controls the turning.

I think you've understood the principle of what I was suggesting. I quite like the idea of the further you are away from the centre the faster you turn.

My thoughts are that it's a single joystick with the button pressed to move the player in association with the hand/weapon/tool and the 'off' button just to move the weapon.

I think having two separate hand controls could make it confusing.

Congrats to Oculus on this award from NVidia
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2013/03/5-hot-s ... es-summit/

SiggiG wrote:http://blogs.nvidia.com/2013/03/5-hot-s ... es-summit/

Hahahaha, I suppose their typo is relevant because Rifts will start spreading onto people's heads faster than Ocu-lice!

Ooh! And Oculus gets $17,000 for winning it! Congratulations!

olistreet wrote:A little video from GTC 2013 where even though we can see the new dev kit as it will come to us, the employee from Oculus is showcasing that old prototype

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1785afLNFw[/youtube]

nothing noticeable here just trying to make these days more bearable until the kit arrives, Go Oculus!!

the interviewers were guys from the german magazine PC Games Hardware. they wrote on their website that oculus told them that stereo 3d cameras could be a possibility for the consumer version.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Oculus-Ri ... t-1061599/

quote from website:

Das Dev-Kit 1 von Oculus Rift setzt im Gegensatz zum Prototypen, dessen Display noch schliert, auf eine doppelt so schnelle Anzeige, die quasi 60 Hz liefert, aber in Sachen Auflösung bei 1.280 x 800 Pixeln bleiben soll. Für die Consumer-Version, die nur als v1-Concept besteht, sind 1.920 x 1.080, HD3D und Stereo-Kameras im Gespräch.