Nvidia 3080 or 3080 TI 3D vision support using modded drivers

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:06 pm

We might have more success requesting testers on our discord; it's quite active from day to day - I'll give out a shout...

This forum has a huge number of lurkers - if I recall, a recent study showed that there is a 100:1 participation ratio on internet forums - every one person posting is 100 people only reading. I bet this is a lot more lop-sided on a more technical gaming community like ours, due to the kind of people our technical niche attracts. Certainly, page views on many [popular/entertaining] posts would evidence such a postulation...

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm

Bound358 on our Discord has 1809 and has kindly tested for us:

Code: Select all

Bound358Today at 22:42
bad news
installed 456-38 correctly with bringback3dv, I can see 3d vision option in the nvidia menu, 
turned it on but no 3d, 3d vision demo is in 2d, all games i've tried are in 2d.

There's something weird going on here.
When I first installed the drivers the 3d vision setup didn't boot with bringback3dv, 
so installed them with 3DFM using the quick setup, no wizard.
I've uninstalled the 3d vision drivers and now I run the 3d vision wizard setup.
In this case the wizard setup booted in 3d, however after finishing it, 
3d vision demo is still in 2d, and games are still in 2d.  
Also AFAIK Aragami and Wasteland 2 are DX11 games,
i don't have any dx9 games installed at this time.

I shall update as I receive any more info...

Post by **schwing** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:13 pm

    Hey guys, thanks for letting me know about this. I'll be looking into it this weekend as my schedule frees up starting then. My thoughts are all based on what the new driver looks like so I don't have much opinions on it right now. It's good to know that 3D fired up at all (a test case of that on Discord) and that it might just be the DX11 3D, which is the point of the driver fix. The bad part to know is that it doesn't work on another OS, which is how I found the fix in the first place. Yet I have enough notes to help find the fix again.

    In the meantime, this thread is the place to be. It will take a decent chunk of time to get things set up again and find a solution, so I don't expect good news to come swiftly. Also I'll post in this thread when I need testers. Lastly I don't expect to make a thread since I know that it will end up in 3D Fix Manager and BringBack3DV again anyway. So a post here for that too then.

    Sorry for the inconvenience the driver break caused, and hopefully we'll have something soon.

Post by **bo3bber** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:54 pm

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm Bound358 on our Discord has 1809 and has kindly tested for us:

Code: Select all

Bound358Today at 22:42
bad news
installed 456-38 correctly with bringback3dv, I can see 3d vision option in the nvidia menu, 
turned it on but no 3d, 3d vision demo is in 2d, all games i've tried are in 2d.

There's something weird going on here.
When I first installed the drivers the 3d vision setup didn't boot with bringback3dv, 
so installed them with 3DFM using the quick setup, no wizard.
I've uninstalled the 3d vision drivers and now I run the 3d vision wizard setup.
In this case the wizard setup booted in 3d, however after finishing it, 
3d vision demo is still in 2d, and games are still in 2d.  
Also AFAIK Aragami and Wasteland 2 are DX11 games,
i don't have any dx9 games installed at this time.

I shall update as I receive any more info...

Interesting info there.

My testing shows same, that doing 3D install itself works fine using HelixVision. Fixes 3D Version and shows as installed. However, in my case the stereo test itself also work fine. I used anaglyph/Discover mode for testing. This was Win10 1809 though.

Also of note- check if the dwm.exe profile has the Oculus override. We have installed that in the past via 3DFM/HelixVision, and it breaks the stereo test. For recent versions of 3DFM/HV we remove that flag, and only install it if WMR is detected.

In Nvidia Inspector look for the flag: http://wiki.bo3b.net/index.php?title=Dr ... 0x709d3ad2

0x0 is default there, and might make stereo test work again. This setting is also cleared if you do a Clean driver install.

Post by **Pauldusler** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:10 pm

bo3bber wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:54 pm
However, in my case the stereo test itself also work fine. I used anaglyph/Discover mode for testing. This was Win10 1809 though.

The stereo test also works fine on Win v.2004 - but only with anaglyph / Discover mode enabled. 3D Vision fails here. Pretty weird as it's DX9... so it seems partially DX 9 is also broken. WMR fix was not installed in my case.

Post by **helifax** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:32 pm

For me, 3D Vision driver installs.
When I try to activate the 3D fix using 3DFM I get this error:

So it looks like the pattern to apply the patch is not found, from what I gather

Either they changed stuff too much, which caused this, or they removed all "deprecated 3D Vision" support from DX11. Dx9 seems to work fine though...

(Guess too old to bother)
I think the pattern just changed (due to the compiler optimizing things differently), but who knows..

Post by **bo3bber** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:42 pm

Another data point here. I did a DDU clean of my Win7 installation, then a Clean install of the 456.38 driver for Win7.

Same results. DX11 games do not crash, but also do not engage 3D in any case I could find. DX9 games work fine.

I was able to use the Stereo Test correctly in both anglyph and 3D Vision mode, and it works. Stereo Test is DX8 by the way.

Viewing screenshots with 3D photoviewer worked, but only in Full screen mode. Windowed it was not in 3D.

Post by **bo3bber** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:55 pm

When testing my DX11 sample for Direct Mode: https://github.com/bo3b/3D-Vision-Direct

I see that all calls work up to the NvAPI_Stereo_CreateHandleFromIUnknown which creates the StereoHandle. That returns a -144 error of Stereo is Not Enabled.

That's interesting, because the call NvAPI_Stereo_IsEnabled said that it was, and the NvAPI_Stereo_SetDriverMode also succeeded.

Code wise, that suggests it's not a huge change, because the NvAPI_Stereo_IsEnabled actually returns true. If they had gone out of their way to remove 3D, they would have that call return an error.

Post by **P.C.Zen** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:56 pm

Should I hold off on buying a 3080?

Is it resolvable and how long is it estimated to take?

Post by **bo3bber** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:25 am

P.C.Zen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:56 pm Should I hold off on buying a 3080?

Is it resolvable and how long is it estimated to take?

In case it is not completely obvious- if we cannot get the new driver to work, then we are dead in the water, and no future drivers will ever work either. The last driver we'll be able to use is 452.06.

Also, not to put too fine a point on it- the answer is we have no idea. We of course would like to see it magically fixed too, but this sh*t is hard, and we might be dead. Reverse engineering is insanely hard and tedious, and there is never a guarantee of success.

Post by **P.C.Zen** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:51 am

bo3bber wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:25 am
P.C.Zen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:56 pm Should I hold off on buying a 3080?

Is it resolvable and how long is it estimated to take?
In case it is not completely obvious- if we cannot get the new driver to work, then we are dead in the water, and no future drivers will ever work either. The last driver we'll be able to use is 452.06.

Also, not to put too fine a point on it- the answer is we have no idea. We of course would like to see it magically fixed too, but this sh*t is hard, and we might be dead. Reverse engineering is insanely hard and tedious, and there is never a guarantee of success.

Okay, thanks for the info.

Didn't mean to suggest it was easy; just have more faith in you guys than I have knowledge about the process.

As for dead in the water, maybe there's an upper limit for which games we'll be able to run above 1080p but might not be for a while, and there's plenty of stuff already been converted to enjoy...? Ray tracing was kind of going to screw us all eventually anyway right?

If we hit a ceiling it might be cool to be able to finalise a lot of the stuff that supports 3D...? ...like maybe hacking together a windows build that supports 3D immediately after installation, or streamlining/updating the existing fixes and getting them all together into a single package under a gui?

Would working on SLI profiles for games be possible? That might help to extend things a little further?

Maybe the people with the expertise could turn their attention to 3D in console emulation, to get stuff like Mario Galaxy 2 and 3D World running and console exclusives like Last of Us, stuff like that...?

Again, I have literally zero knowledge of how to do this stuff so I'm just throwing out ideas.

Post by **AlexTOPMAN** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:26 am

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm bad news
installed 456-38 correctly with bringback3dv, I can see 3d vision option in the nvidia menu,
turned it on but no 3d, 3d vision demo is in 2d, all games i've tried are in 2d.

Tell him to try 3d in DX_different_versions games. In d3d8.dll the "exclusive fullscreen" was hardcoded to "off" for the DVR needs (to have no problem with screening and video recording).
To turn it back (to "on") you need to change 1 byte in d3d8.dll
C7 86 B0 01 00 00 01 00 00 00
to
C7 86 B0 01 00 00 00 00 00 00.

fff.jpg

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:35 am

Gentlemen, it might be a better idea to come onto our discord and talk to the testing gents yourselves instead of having a middleman who can barely remember or understand the intricacies involved. I have asked Bound358 to read the comments here and hopefully he shall respond; however, I believe direct engagement would be more fruitful

Our Discord: https://discord.gg/tXHYhNK thanks to DSS.

Post by **helifax** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:14 pm

NVM, The problem was both Vk3D Vision and Vulkan asking for Exclusive Fullscreen Mode and Vk3DVision not engaging

)
So IGNORE the original message ^_^ All is GOOD when reverting (without DDU)

Original message below:
Not sure how much this matters but,

Installing 456.38 on top of 452.06 (DCH working 3D Vision) made DX11 not work with 3D Vision.
Reverting to 452.06 (from 453.38) ALSO stops 3D Vision from working in DX11.

I'll try DDU and install 452.06 back and see if I can get 3D Vision to work like before.

Oh and yeah.... Win 10 2004 version. ^_^

Post by **Dark_saiyens** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:00 pm

Thanks everyone for trying and looking to fix it...
It seems not so good... It would be so cool to play 3D on last titles 3D copmpatible that are impossible or hard to play with even a 2080ti (GTA 5, ...)
Good luck !

Post by **kakashisensei** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:05 pm

With GTA5 3 core problem with 3d vision, it would take much faster single threaded cpu perf to make it playable.

Post by **john105** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:34 pm

GTA 5 works very well for me with all settings on max and 1920x1080. But I have a Core i9-9900KS (5GHz) and 1080Ti SLI.

Post by **Captain007** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:56 pm

I've been visiting the forum daily for community updates and keeping on top of news and driver hacks as the 3D Vision situation is evolving since NVIDIA abandoned it. Thanks to this amazing community, we've come this far, and keep fixing so many games. Seems the RTX 3080 and latest driver release has made the situation more chaotic. Though I'm hopeful the amazing people here will work their magic to find a workaround.

As I'm also playing in VR and HelixVison, I think my last resort is to upgrade to 3080 and keep my 2080ti in a dual GPU and dual OS configuration. Windows 1809 with 2080ti as main GPU for 3D Vision and the 3080 GPU disabled from Windows device manager...and Windows 2004 with 3080 as main GPU for VR gaming, and 2080ti disabled from Windows device manager. I have no space for two desktop towers otherwise I would build a separate system just for VR with latest and greatest, and keep a legacy desktop for 3D Vision. I guess I can make use of 4 GPU slots on my Asus Rampage VI as SLI is pretty much dead anyways.

All prepared for 3D Vision apocalypse here lol. 2 3D monitors, 2 2080ti's, 2 3D Vison kits, a backup of official Win 1809 and last supported driver, as well as last driver that works with hacks. Got a large backlog of games already fixed at Helixmod. Once they're done, I'll replay some of my favourites and move exclusively to VR gaming for new games.

SteamVR and Windows mixed reality platform had a bit of a conflict using driver hacks for 3D Vison with later drivers. Not sure if it was resolved with later releases of 3D fix manager.

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:41 am

Response from kind tester...

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Bound358 Today at 06:32

Right now I think that at this point it's less important that 30XX 
don't work and more that if we're stuck with old drivers, 
at some point new games won't work because they will require the latest drivers.

@RAGEdemon I've seen them but at this point I don't see much use in 
testing dx8 compatibility to be honest, whatever @Schwing ask to test I'll do it, 
but since he's going to give it a look this weekend, I prefer to wait and see what he 
thinks about all this.

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:23 am

Reddit links to leaked RTX 3090 review/benchmarks:

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-gefo ... -leaks-out

TL;DR: 10% performance increase over 3080. For double the price. Disappointing, but always good to see innovation...

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:40 am

Another confirmation for 1909, if it helps:

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TanookiPhoenix Today at 01:35
@RAGEdemon. I can confirm that Windows 10 Version 1909 only works with DX9 and not DX11 with the driver hack enabled.
I saw your post on MTBS3D and thought they could use another tester in the pool.

Post by **Lysander** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:11 pm

This major suxxors. Makes me feel better about getting a 2060 back in May, though, lol
With the backlog I'm probably good for a few years, though...just gotta ensure I dont update the nvidia drivers past 452.06 and hope I dont somehow get forced to....

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:32 am

Another kind tester:

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TonyMontana Today at 00:56

@RAGEdemon  I have just tested drivers 456.38 on Windows 1709 with 3D Fix Manager 
as well as the manual @Schwing driver hack. Same results as @TanookiPhoenix, only DX8 and 
DX9 working, but sadly no DX11. With earlier drivers 452.06 3D Vision is working fine. However, 
I thought about replacing   "nvwgf2um(x).dll" from 456.38 driver  (which does not contain the 
"magic" pattern any more) with the same (patchable) dll from 452.06. I will test this  soon and 
share my results with you. I really hope that there will be a way to enable 3D Vision with DX11 
on the RTX 30xx-generation (which I am planning  to upgrade to, I am still on GTX 1080) and latest drivers.

Post by **Losti** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:23 am

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:32 am Another kind tester:

Code: Select all

TonyMontana Today at 00:56

@RAGEdemon  I have just tested drivers 456.38 on Windows 1709 with 3D Fix Manager 
as well as the manual @Schwing driver hack. Same results as @TanookiPhoenix, only DX8 and 
DX9 working, but sadly no DX11. With earlier drivers 452.06 3D Vision is working fine. However, 
I thought about replacing   "nvwgf2um(x).dll" from 456.38 driver  (which does not contain the 
"magic" pattern any more) with the same (patchable) dll from 452.06. I will test this  soon and 
share my results with you. I really hope that there will be a way to enable 3D Vision with DX11 
on the RTX 30xx-generation (which I am planning  to upgrade to, I am still on GTX 1080) and latest drivers.

Using this files from another driver will not work. I was sorting out the things in the past and identified this files as essential driver Files. Using other Files will not work, as far as i can remember there will be no control panel or a disturbed one. In other cases of work you will be basically at the old driver.

Post by **AlexTOPMAN** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:18 am

The directory structure with files in the 456.38 driver for Win7 is more similar to that of versions 450 of drivers and earlier. Version 456.38 for Win10 has a very different set of files (Display.Driver folder). Did they change the driver architecture?

Post by **TonyMontana** » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:53 pm

I have spent some time fooling around with both driver versions 452.06 and 456.38. I even have set up an extra PC with Win10 1709 just for 3D Vision driver testing. In my humble opinion, I think that Nvidia changed some code affecting DX10 and DX11 only in at least one dll, however DX9 and below does strangely not seem to be negatively affected.
This might be good news because it might be possible to identify what dll driver file(s) (or even hex-code fragment inside the dll) handles DX10 + 11 and prevents 3DV to be enabled. (In other words what dll file(s) in 456.38 has broken it?)

Therefore I would like to identify the dll that is responsible for 3D Vision not kicking in any more with the latest drivers.

I will do all the testing on Win10 1709 because until now it was not neccessary to use the Schwing-hack below Win10 1809, so I assume the current issue might not be related to the driver performing an OS Version Check preventing 3DV, as older driver versions only required the 3DV-Driver dll-version patch (NvSCPAPI64.dll), however these are just my thoughts, so it could be actually different.

What do you guys think about this? Does it make any sense?

Post by **helifax** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:24 pm

TonyMontana wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:53 pm I will do all the testing on Win10 1709 because until now it was not neccessary to use the Schwing-hack below Win10 1809, so I assume the current issue might not be related to the driver performing an OS Version Check preventing 3DV, as older driver versions only required the 3DV-Driver dll-version patch (NvSCPAPI64.dll), however these are just my thoughts, so it could be actually different.

What do you guys think about this? Does it make any sense?

That makes a lot of sense! If 452.06 works on Windows 10 1709 without the hack and 456.32 doesn't work, it seems this is a new problem indeed!

Post by **P.C.Zen** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:54 pm

What's the likelihood of this being solved?

I ask because I need a new graphics card and I'm going to go for a 2000 series just for 3D. Should I hold off on that purchase or is it going to take time to figure this stuff out?

Post by **Dark_saiyens** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:46 pm

I write here :
I give 50dollars to the guy that made 3D Vision works completly for the new drivers and RTX 3080/3090 !
Because i need to say a big thanks to him ^^

Post by **Lysander** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:29 pm

P.C.Zen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:54 pm What's the likelihood of this being solved?

I ask because I need a new graphics card and I'm going to go for a 2000 series just for 3D. Should I hold off on that purchase or is it going to take time to figure this stuff out?

U play in 4k?

Post by **Lysander** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:35 pm

P.C.Zen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:54 pm What's the likelihood of this being solved?

I ask because I need a new graphics card and I'm going to go for a 2000 series just for 3D. Should I hold off on that purchase or is it going to take time to figure this stuff out?

U play in 4k?

Post by **bo3bber** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:07 pm

Losti wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:23 amUsing this files from another driver will not work. I was sorting out the things in the past and identified this files as essential driver Files. Using other Files will not work, as far as i can remember there will be no control panel or a disturbed one. In other cases of work you will be basically at the old driver.

I also just did this experiment, using latest drivers. The driver file in question is the nvwgf2umx.dll and I experimented with dropping in different versions.

Running driver 452.06, I tested the driver below, and the latest 456.38 driver files that matched. None worked. The games give an error that the video card must support DX11, so they are clearly getting an error returned from the nvwgf2umx driver file.

Modifying their version numbers to match the 452.06 driver also did not work. So the files are not using that version to check. But most likely have some sort of internal consistency/version check.

The ones that match the closest are actually the 425.06 and the 456.38, because both are from the 27.x driver branch. But as noted, simply changing the versions is not going to work here. It doesn't crash, but also does not work to solve the problem.

Post by **P.C.Zen** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:37 pm

Oops, apologies, double post.

Post by **P.C.Zen** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:40 pm

Lysander wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:35 pm
P.C.Zen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:54 pm What's the likelihood of this being solved?

I ask because I need a new graphics card and I'm going to go for a 2000 series just for 3D. Should I hold off on that purchase or is it going to take time to figure this stuff out?
U play in 4k?

No, I've got a 1440p 3D monitor set up on my desk and a 1080p 3D monitor on a monitor arm that I can swing around in front of the 1440p monitor depending on whether or not the game will run at that resolution at 60 fps in 3D on my P.C.

I've just upgraded my CPU, motherboard, RAM (i5-10600k & DDR4) but I don't have a GPU at this point so I'm planning on buying a 2000 series card instead of a 3000 series. Just wondering if that's a good decision given that people seem to be working hard on solving the 3000 series compatibility problem.

Just seeking input to help me make a buying decision.

Post by **TonyMontana** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:44 pm

I also just did this experiment, using latest drivers. The driver file in question is the nvwgf2umx.dll and I experimented with dropping in different versions.

After doing further testing, I was able to narrow the important driver files down. It actually seems to be these 4 files that obviously mess up 3DV in 456.38:

nvwgf2um.dll (32-bit Games)

nvwgf2umx.dll (64-bit Games)

(possibly) nvwgf2um_cfg.dll

(possibly) nvwgf2umx_cfg.dll

Simply overwriting those files with the ones from 452.06 does not work, so I think we need to do a file comparison at hex-level to figure out which bit-sequence must be changed.

To achive this, it may be a good idea to look at the driver dlls that control DX9 and below (not sure if this would be nvd3dum.dll?) because they still work with 3DV in 456.38. Maybe it is possible to find the bit-sequence we are looking for inside those files?

Post by **Necropants** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:08 am

This is really disappointing to hear. I was hopeful, but am not surprised Nvidia might step in and actually break it for the 3k launch. I assume its a required driver for these cards....
Especially annoying if dx9 still works... Hopefully this may be a sign that it's fixable though. God speed two eyed heroes!

When I get some time this weekend I will try out 1809, but assume it's going to be the same issue if 1709 doesn't work obviously.

Post by **skyrimer** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:30 am

Thanks TonyMontana for giving this a look, I'm hoping that you, Schwig and others can work something out, but it really looks like this time Nvidia tried really hard to mess things up.

Post by **AlexTOPMAN** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:24 am

bo3bber wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:07 pmThe games give an error that the video card must support DX11

Did you check, that the "fullscreen mode" works anywhere at all? (because "2d" games without 3d stereo work and DX11 is supported!)

Post by **Necropants** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:47 pm

That's an interesting point but maybe nothing. I notice I do not need exclusive fullscreen for dx9 games. The behaviour reported definitely sounds like when you have 3dvision going but games are running exclusive fullscreen.

Post by **P.C.Zen** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:47 pm

I took the plunge and bought a 2000 series card. I'm sticking with 2000 series for 3D even if it means building a separate 3D rig; although if a fix can't be found and I want to play future releases with ray-tracing what I'll probably do is just swap cards (my case is a Corsair C70 so I can just remove the side-panel).