Meant to be Seen

blazespinnaker wrote:Standards won't be an issue unless they use proprietary cables - but anyone who does that, won't be able sell any units. Is Sony going to lock their version of the Rift to their console? That'd be weird.

No proprietary cables here. Standard adapters.

blazespinnaker wrote:Oculus is about to be run over by a freight train. They'd better pivot and fast.

My point exactly. Our forum friends consider it a tabú subject for some reason, though. Maybe the impact of the Rift still hasn't faded yet.

blazespinnaker wrote:Standards won't be an issue unless they use proprietary cables - but anyone who does that, won't be able sell any units. Is Sony going to lock their version of the Rift to their console? That'd be weird.

Oculus is about to be run over by a freight train. They'd better pivot and fast.

hmmmm.... a secret weapon might be PORN!
remember 'the internet is for......! '

I can't talk about it at large, since I'm using it for my own product, but you can have the video feed sorted without major hassle.

Are you saying that you can send HD footage, low latency, 60FPS to a phone that doesn't have HDMI in? How? It's impossible AFAIK. Phones are devices that have a limited number of inputs - normally mini usb, bluetooth, wifi, 3.5mm jack and some sensors. None of these can accept data at the rate you need to push 1080p rendering from a PC.

Can you upload a demo of your solution please?

Chriky wrote:Are you saying that you can send HD footage, low latency, 60FPS to a phone that doesn't have HDMI in?

Exactly. To any display device which has a microUSB input.

Chriky wrote:Can you upload a demo of your solution please?

By all means, that's my intention, once it's ready, in a couple of days.

Attreyu wrote:

Chriky wrote:Are you saying that you can send HD footage, low latency, 60FPS to a phone that doesn't have HDMI in?

Exactly. To any display device which has a microUSB input.

Chriky wrote:Can you upload a demo of your solution please?

By all means, that's my intention, once it's ready, in a couple of days.

Aaaahh! now all make sense why you are so sure....

Funny thing is, Sony is obviously threatened by Oculus... Isn't that amazing ?
Palmer you are one smart kid.

This tread is making me giggle a bit.

Attreyu I think you have slightly shot yourself in the foot when it comes to Oculus as at the moment they are the market leaders in both the development and software support department for VR and im pretty sure they would have taken note of your post above. If you were ever to look for a good quote to put on your marketing campaign from Oculus im pretty sure you wont get one now. I will revisit this post in exactly 12 months and will likely have my consumer rift next to me.

In business ( no matter what your opinion is ) don't ever knock the new kid on the block. You never know what will come in the future and the smallest fish in the pond can always grow into the biggest fish. Just look at Google V Yahoo...

Attreyu you seem to base your future predictions on the current Dev Kit hardware. Yes to all your points about newer phones having better components but the current Dev Kit is ( A DEV KIT ) only used to show developers the potential of VR and how immerse it will be. Nobody here knows what will be in the final version of the Rift or the Sony HMD but people seem pretty cretin its only going to be 1080p ( Why?? ). Oculus have always stated that number as a minimum guide line. For all we know it could be a lot more then that.

Having a cheap mount for your latest 500 dollar phone / tablet will be cool but your going to run into the following problems

1. Your in some VR world reaching your final goal next moment ( Ding Dong ) your phone rings and your screen goes dark People buy phones for talking to people sometimes.

2. Battery life in phones is dismal when doing anything on them. Imagine trying to play a game longer then 3 hours either native or streaming it to the phone. You might say why not plug it in when using it, Id say what advantage has it over a consumer Rift if I have to keep it plugged in when using it. Lets be honest people when's the last time you've watched a 2 hour movie on netflix using your mobile without having to plug it in.

3. Weight. All the hardware that goes into a phone weighs a lot more then what a consumer rift will weight id bet because a phone has a lot more components that it needs to be a phone. All of this weight will be pushed away from your face as its all behind its screen. This will then all be supported on the bridge of your nose.

With a dedicated VR headset the only part that needs to be put in front of your eyes is the screen. Hence the current ( Rift control box )

4. Price. A good quality phone ( the type you talk about ) are about 3-400 dollars ignoring cheap knock-offs. You then need to get yourself a VR mount with the correct optics. In the end your going to pay more for an inferior product as sliding in and out your phone ( of which they are many shapes and sizes ) cant be ideal as each year they are new models and you will need to get a new mount every time you change your phone.

5. Software. No developer in his or her right mind would put a large amount of money into developing games optimized for 100 different types of handsets. Its just not possible to get a good return. Just look at the types of games that are making money today on handheld ( all simple flash based ) . Each handset out on the market today has a slightly different display to each other in both size and resolution. You would need to optimize your game for each type of phone and optics. Hell you just need to look at how the screen on the Iphone has changed each year.

Game Devs are just like real people ( ) they dont like change ( well not that much ) . They like to know when they start to build a game that the technology hasn't passed them by. By having a set consumer Rift or Sony HMD they can be confident that their game will run as it should and display correctly. I'd estimate that a consumer Rift would have a 3 year life cycle until a newer high resolution screen would come as a replacement but allowing older games to be played on it easily.

Your statement that the Rift is a Fail ( Wont even come out ) is crazy. Especially when your trying to build and market an Omni Treadmill. I really fail to understand how you can say this. If I were you id be singing from the roof tops and praising all VR displays as you need as wide a market as possible to become successful and sell your product.

I've only talked about the Rift above but you just need to look at Sony's history to know that when they engineer something you can be dam sure they will over engineer it to make it the best possible hardware around. They probably have some super display hidden away that they were keeping for just such a project. We will know very shortly.

Their have been a lot of ( If's ) in the previous posts above but Oculus and Sony are doing what we all really want. They are creating the VR that we've been dreaming about for years.

Finally just because you can do something with your phone doesn't mean that it will be better. I have a phone and I use it as a phone. I also have a tablet and I use it as a tablet. I can do the same things on both but I choose to use them differently.

Consumers will be the same. They will want VR and will want a dedicated VR headset to do it with.

I welcome feedback but please be more detailed then one sentence answers.

OK cool let's wait for the demo that all this speculation is based on. IIRC Attreyu has made somewhat misleading claims in the past so I won't hold my breath, but I would be very happy to see him deliver.

Chriky wrote:OK cool let's wait for the demo that all this speculation is based on. IIRC Attreyu has made somewhat misleading claims in the past so I won't hold my breath, but I would be very happy to see him deliver.

In fact it has little to do with me or my products, since my approach is by no means revolutionary and probably there are many people who will find different solutions as to how to transmit the video feed from the computer to a smartphone. It's not exactly rocket science, just technology evolving.

My main reason of seeing Rift unable to compete in an year's time is the price, plain and simple. The moment other people will come out with similar products priced way lower and doing the same thing, it will be the beginning of the end for Oculus as HMD manufacturers only. They are no Apple with a long road behind them delivering suites over suites of hardware products.

I'm thinking at the comparisson between the brand smartphones and the chinese clones using the same hardware basically. We are paying way too much into corporate branding for our own good. Probably half of the price is what it's perceived as the "quality guarantee offered by brand X". It may work out for the lazy, I'm personally not convinced. The profit margin is exagerated.

Wow this thread has totally turned into one man's crusade. In any case, not chewing through all that, but just wanted to comment that if the PS4 is getting a dedicated headset it might become easier for Oculus to get the Rift certified for the XBone, or perhaps MS will come to them to counter this move to VR by Sony?

By this time I've pretty much turned into an Oculus fanboy, but I'm still curious as to what they are cooking up, the Sony boys. In the end I still play almost exclusively on my PC since a couple of years, not sure that will change anytime soon!

whelanweb wrote:This tread is making me giggle a bit.

Attreyu I think you have slightly shot yourself in the foot when it comes to Oculus as at the moment they are the market leaders in both the development and software support department for VR and im pretty sure they would have taken note of your post above. If you were ever to look for a good quote to put on your marketing campaign from Oculus im pretty sure you wont get one now.

Nah man, I'm too insignificant for them to actually bother about some dude on the MTBS3D forums' oppinion. Plus, I'm not actually criticising them, never did. I'm just seeing all these new cheaper alternatives appear so I've sat and drew the common-sense conclusion: "if these little guys continue to advance and be able to manufacture similar products at half the price, than I can't see how the Rift can manage to stay in business by manufacturing HMDs one year from now". It's common-sense if you ask me, but I'm not a luxury-hardware type. I'm an Android person, rather than iOS.

whelanweb wrote:In business ( no matter what your opinion is ) don't ever knock the new kid on the block. You never know what will come in the future and the smallest fish in the pond can always grow into the biggest fish. Just look at Google V Yahoo...

In my view I see Rift as the biggest fish and the small indie producers as the new kids on the block, not the other way around. HTH.

whelanweb wrote:Attreyu you seem to base your future predictions on the current Dev Kit hardware. Yes to all your points about newer phones having better components but the current Dev Kit is ( A DEV KIT ) only used to show developers the potential of VR and how immerse it will be. Nobody here knows what will be in the final version of the Rift or the Sony HMD but people seem pretty cretin its only going to be 1080p ( Why?? ). Oculus have always stated that number as a minimum guide line. For all we know it could be a lot more then that.

Absolutely, but my main reasoning comes with from the price of the others. Again, it's not me agains the Oculus people. Kudos for them, it's a brilliant product.

whelanweb wrote:Having a cheap mount for your latest 500 dollar phone / tablet will be cool but your going to run into the following problems

1. Your in some VR world reaching your final goal next moment ( Ding Dong ) your phone rings and your screen goes dark People buy phones for talking to people sometimes.

There are workarounds. Personally, I wouldn't use a smartphone in the first place, but a tablet, for a variety of reasons.

whelanweb wrote:2. Battery life in phones is dismal when doing anything on them. Imagine trying to play a game longer then 3 hours either native or streaming it to the phone. You might say why not plug it in when using it, Id say what advantage has it over a consumer Rift if I have to keep it plugged in when using it. Lets be honest people when's the last time you've watched a 2 hour movie on netflix using your mobile without having to plug it in.

Tablet standby times are around 4-6 hours atm, with intense screen activity. And it will only increase, with time.

whelanweb wrote:3. Weight. All the hardware that goes into a phone weighs a lot more then what a consumer rift will weight id bet because a phone has a lot more components that it needs to be a phone. All of this weight will be pushed away from your face as its all behind its screen. This will then all be supported on the bridge of your nose.

With a dedicated VR headset the only part that needs to be put in front of your eyes is the screen. Hence the current ( Rift control box )

Smartphones are surprisingly lightweight and the current trends are towards making them even more lighter, slimmer, etc. Spot the Sony Xperia Z Ultra.

whelanweb wrote:4. Price. A good quality phone ( the type you talk about ) are about 3-400 dollars ignoring cheap knock-offs. You then need to get yourself a VR mount with the correct optics. In the end your going to pay more for an inferior product as sliding in and out your phone ( of which they are many shapes and sizes ) cant be ideal as each year they are new models and you will need to get a new mount every time you change your phone.

That's the adapter designer's job. It remains to be seen how they manage to resolve these issues. But a 7" tablet will remain a 7" tablet, more or less, regardless of who's making it. And the sweetspot for VR displays is around that size.

I concur that the Vrase guys are digging themselves in a hole, but they weren't meant to build a VR exclusive device to start with.

whelanweb wrote:5. Software. No developer in his or her right mind would put a large amount of money into developing games optimized for 100 different types of handsets. Its just not possible to get a good return. Just look at the types of games that are making money today on handheld ( all simple flash based ) . Each handset out on the market today has a slightly different display to each other in both size and resolution. You would need to optimize your game for each type of phone and optics. Hell you just need to look at how the screen on the Iphone has changed each year.

Game Devs are just like real people ( ) they dont like change ( well not that much ) . They like to know when they start to build a game that the technology hasn't passed them by. By having a set consumer Rift or Sony HMD they can be confident that their game will run as it should and display correctly. I'd estimate that a consumer Rift would have a 3 year life cycle until a newer high resolution screen would come as a replacement but allowing older games to be played on it easily.

I'm not talking about Android games. See my previous posts. I'm talking about something that would deliver the same experience an Oculus Rift has, using the same mechanics (streaming or cloning the PC display).

whelanweb wrote:Your statement that the Rift is a Fail ( Wont even come out ) is crazy. Especially when your trying to build and market an Omni Treadmill. I really fail to understand how you can say this. If I were you id be singing from the roof tops and praising all VR displays as you need as wide a market as possible to become successful and sell your product.

See my first line. In fact, if you give it a minute's thinking, an ODT and a Rift are somehow mutually exclusive. It's just that at the moment the only product in the game (sic) is the Rift. What you're saying is something among the lines "the only possible ODT to be used with the Rift is the Virtuix Omni so we'll hold them in high regard, no matter what". Which again, is true for the moment but I don't think anyone in their right mind can realistically expect that no other competing products would emerge. It's about progressing, not stagnating or monopolysing the VR accessory industry.

whelanweb wrote:I've only talked about the Rift above but you just need to look at Sony's history to know that when they engineer something you can be dam sure they will over engineer it to make it the best possible hardware around. They probably have some super display hidden away that they were keeping for just such a project. We will know very shortly.

I agree. My general view on this whole matter, as someone who is trying to come up with a new alternative, is that ultimately people will settle for accesibility and all-in-one solutions, since if anyone would manage to deliver products with the same quality and immersion level as the Rift, at a fraction of the price, would win.

Take the Nexus 4 example. Price IS important. That's my take on it. Just seeing the comments other have made regarding the shipping and customs costs for the Omni, one should take note.

whelanweb wrote:Their have been a lot of ( If's ) in the previous posts above but Oculus and Sony are doing what we all really want. They are creating the VR that we've been dreaming about for years.

Absolutely ! No question about it. But it's a free market and I can really see dozens of small indie developers helping to reach those waypoints quicker.

whelanweb wrote:Finally just because you can do something with your phone doesn't mean that it will be better. I have a phone and I use it as a phone. I also have a tablet and I use it as a tablet. I can do the same things on both but I choose to use them differently.

Sure, it's a question of choice and personal comfort in the end. I for one like to fiddle with things and exploit them to their maximum potential.

whelanweb wrote:Consumers will be the same. They will want VR and will want a dedicated VR headset to do it with.

We will agree that we don't agree then I can't convince you, you can't convince me, time will tell which one was right about predicting it.

whelanweb wrote:I welcome feedback but please be more detailed then one sentence answers.

cheers for taking the time to express your views.

BOLL wrote:Wow this thread has totally turned into one man's crusade.

Sorry about derailing it, I'll keep to myself from now on, if it's off-topic, I don't want to end up being perceived as trolling.

Thanks for getting back to me Attreyu but we will have to agree to disagree on quite a few things alright.

Having a custom built VR headset will always be better then using some housing and a tablet / phone. Just look at the first couple of Iphones they made terrible phones great for games and music but couldn't get a strong signal

As the saying goes

Jack of all trades - Master of none.

Oh yeah, of course you're right --- For fanboys like you and I. But the broad market might not have the $500 for something to strap on their face, make them nauseous, and isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

If it's 20 or 30 bux and they can slip their iphone into it... sure, what the hell.

Anyways, clearly OVR agrees with the thesis somewhat and is worried about the mobile market. They have their best resource, Carmack, focused on it.

blazespinnaker wrote:Oh yeah, of course you're right --- For fanboys like you and I. But the broad market might not have the $500 for something to strap on their face, make them nauseous, and isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

If it's 20 or 30 bux and they can slip their iphone into it... sure, what the hell.

Except that it's going to be ~$300, not $500. Additionally, Oculus have mentioned in interviews they'd like it to be cheaper than that, or even free - they're thinking about alternative funding options.

Oculus may stay afloat if they could go for a Christmas release date....fat chance of that though, if they could get in early they might be able to keep their head above the water once the big boys dive in...

Palmer initially set out to get V.R back on the map.. & he's accomplished just that. Well done Dude He's managed to bang the drum loud enough to get crowds flocking back to V.R

Gazing into the Oculus Crystal Ball & what do we see.....
Sony will come to town brandishing a shiny white HMD with amazing rez & head tracking with promises of dedicated units just around the corner sporting hand controllers + mo-cap tracking systems. ( loads of conceptual designs & promises of "Full Immersive Experiences" etc.. blah blah blah )

Then four months later Microsoft will stand up holding its shiny Black HMD with dedicated Kinect 2 support ... targeting " Family Virtu-tainment "

Apple eventually slides in with the " iEye" .. a super thin ARHMD that's networked to the iWatch & blows Google glass out of the water...

Crystal ball starting to fade now... but I think I see Palmer & crew sailing towards calmer waters, targeting a niche market of Indie game developers ... & Oculus will keep true to their promise of delivering a quality product at an affordable price ( nearly half the price of any other HMD on the market) something like that.. loads of hard core gamers will be well pissed at the inflated prices of Sony & Microsoft HMDs & stick with Oculus

In the not to distant future.... we may begin to see robotic companies venturing into the realm of V.R .. Honda is just one name I see glowing in the distance

Just to get back on track here below are my most anticipated Sony games I'd love to see in their proposed HMD.

Note: these are just current games that I think could do real well in VR and are Sony Exclusives,

1. Grand Turismo
2. Unfinished Swan
3. Flower
4. The Last of Us ( First Person Perspective View )
5. 3d dot Game Heroes ( Sonys Minecraft )
6. Journey
7. Tokyo Jungle
8. Killzone in VR would be great
9. Little Big Planet ( Build your own levels - Walk through them in VR )
10. ( In cert Mental Jap R.P.G here ) you know already some studio in the East is dreaming of some crazy R.P.G to work in VR.

As I said in a previous post its not going to be a hardware issue that separates the Rift and Sony as i'm sure both will be pretty capable devices. Software is going to be key and at the moment you have to look at Sony Studios and think they can really put together an attractive package with some AAA game support.

The VR device we have all been waiting years for is coming soon its really going to be a matter of who has the best software and what platform is it going to be on. I can actually see Devs porting over their PC Rift games easily to this next Playstation as it now supports Unity and seems to be pretty indie friendly.

I bet theirs a lot of stuff going on in the background and I still wouldn't be surprised if Sony still make an approach to Oculus seeing as they have seem to have a some good people working their and a lot of Indie support. Hell getting John Cormack alone would be worth a big investment by it's self and im sure Sony would be open to having its new HMD supported on all other platforms other then X Box One.

Will sony really compete with oculus or is the information over exaggerated and this is the best they can do?

Hmz T3:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/03/sony ... #continued

TheHolyChicken wrote: Additionally, Oculus have mentioned in interviews they'd like it to be cheaper than that, or even free

That's why they're probably thinking about mobile.

As John Carmack is coming in as CTO, what is he concentrating on?

PL: He's really focusing on a lot of different things. He's working on improving our SDK, he's doing a lot of the work around mobile right now, and optimizing and seeing what we can build on mobile.

Dive is already giving his away for free:

http://www.durovis.com/opendive.html

blazespinnaker wrote:Dive is already giving his away for free:

http://www.durovis.com/opendive.html

So does this guy, I'll be using his version mainly, since I'll focus on 7" tablets for starters, after I modify the radius of the lentiles holder: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:43655

Attreyu, and what if Rift will have a curved screen giving 180 degree HFoV?
Also, how far the resolution in phones/tablets will go? 4k? You won't see any difference above that while using 7' display normally (not as VR). I'm not even sure if you will notice any difference between full HD and 4k. So why would phone/tablet producers go higher?
Now how far the resolution should go for VR, till we will stop noticing a difference? 30k? More?

Also, why I think VR may be a killer for consoles:
1. Consoles present their 1080p VR tech (both next gen consoles render games at 1080p max).
2. People, mainstream, go crazy about VR.
3. (let's say) 4k VR technology appears for PC.
4. People go crazy about 4k VR.
5. People want 4k VR, consoles can't give them that.
6. People buy PC.

And believe me, when VR comes to any console... people WILL go crazy and we will have a fastest revolution in entertainment tech in history.
Simply because VR is awesome (indeed it produces awe, what tech did that last time? Computers?).
What I mean is... Kid plays Halo 5 in VR ---> there you go, there's no coming back. VR, man.

yoshithedog wrote:Attreyu, and what if Rift will have a curved screen giving 180 degree HFoV?
Also, how far the resolution in phones/tablets will go? 4k? You won't see any difference above that while using 7' display normally (not as VR). I'm not even sure if you will notice any difference between full HD and 4k. So why would phone/tablet producers go higher?
Now how far the resolution should go for VR, till we will stop noticing a difference? 30k? More?

Also, why I think VR may be a killer for consoles:
1. Consoles present their 1080p VR tech (both next gen consoles render games at 1080p max).
2. People, mainstream, go crazy about VR.
3. (let's say) 4k VR technology appears for PC.
4. People go crazy about 4k VR.
5. People want 4k VR, consoles can't give them that.
6. People buy PC.

And believe me, when VR comes to any console... people WILL go crazy and we will have a fastest revolution in entertainment tech in history.
Simply because VR is awesome (indeed it produces awe, what tech did that last time? Computers?).
What I mean is... Kid plays Halo 5 in VR ---> there you go, there's no coming back. VR, man.

well said!
the thing about 4k is: Sony is part of the Japan Display executive, which has already shown 4k resolution almost a year ago. also they own magnetic eye tracking contact lenses...(perfect to render 4k games)it will be interesting if they may use one of those hardwares.

Wow. So Oculus is a bunch of idiots that will never deliver consumer hardware because (enter silly assumptions here) and they don't know the future of VR is shoving a suitable phone or heavy tablet (which a lot of people DON'T have) into a plastic enclosure with lenses? whelanweb already elaborated on most of the issues I take with Attreyu's claims, so there's no sense in repeating them.

Personally, I think your phone-based VR HMD is not the VR experience I'm looking forward to have, Attreyu.

Would Sony make exclusivity deals with indies currently developing for the rift?

<sarcasm> wow Carmack really screwed up when he decided to become CTO at Oculus.
He obviously hasn't thought this through. What a dumb ass. </sarcasm>

I don't think there's any doubt Sony can build a great device, but they have a long history of high price tags for premium electronics and are too massive a company to adapt to tech changes quickly - both areas Oculus has a particular advantage in. That, and HMD VR for select PS4 games is a far cry from a PC device that can take advantage of the clearly-huge indie scene making content right now. There's also the issue of motion control - the Move and PSEye is unlikely to be able to match what Sixense is doing without even more hardware. It seems quite likely that Sony's going to have an expensive hi-res good-FOV HMD with select games having their UI enhanced for it, and that Oculus is going to continue being the PC VR device of choice - hopefully together they will bring component prices down, have some cross-platform games, and move HMDs to the mainstream. I don't see them filling the same niche anytime soon, however - an expensive console add-on is unlikely to attract the same developer attention for consoles - devs totally avoided the Kinect, because anything less than total saturation wasn't worth their time. When it comes to the PC, though, the Rift is, essentially, its own platform.

In short, every Rift game is designed for the Rift, not every PS4 game is designed for Sony's VR HMD - that makes one essential, and one a pricey add-on. I'm glad both exist!

LongDarkBlues wrote:There's also the issue of motion control - the Move and PSEye is unlikely to be able to match what Sixense is doing without even more hardware.

I actually think that Sony have an advantage in this front, and that a solution like the Move is better suited for consumer VR than magnetic tracking, especially with the very good specs of the new PS4 camera.

As explained very well by Doc OK in the following video (and also mentioned by Carmack at QuakeCon 2012), magnetic tracking is pretty good for relative positional tracking but not so good for absolute positional tracking, which i believe is what we really need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IERHs7yYsWI#t=3m30s

Maybe Sixense have found a way around this with their new STEM system, but I remain skeptical for now.. All that Sony would need to do is to add one or more lights around their HMD (in a similar way to the new dualshock 4) and use it in combination with an internal IMU. Together with the already available Move wands you could have pretty accurate positional head tracking AND positional hand tracking.

I really think OVR should try to have some sort of hand tracking device / solution as well bundled by default with the Rift if they want to be able to compete, and in order to have a standard VR input interface that would help bringing innovation forward.

Sony entering the VR market is a great thing for both Oculus and Sony, it means with Sony's cash they will be able to force screen manufacturers to provide better screens for VR, e.g. 120Hz screens, higher DPI etc. etc.

Oculus are completely dependent on display tech for mobiles, if Sony can push forwards in terms of VR screen tech then its a win win.

On top of this, the new consoles are PC based, theres a high chance that with a console and decent goggles that there would be a lot of investment by devs/publishers in VR and therefore PC ports would benefit from this.

Lets not be so closed minded about Rift, we NEED devs producing AAA titles with proper VR support, otherwise VR will fail again no matter how good the tech is.

SONY VR Headset could be unveil this month sept 19-22 tokyo games show http://gamerant.com/sony-ps4-vr-headset ... game-show/

MSat wrote:Wow. So Oculus is a bunch of idiots that will never deliver consumer hardware because (enter silly assumptions here) and they don't know the future of VR is shoving a suitable phone or heavy tablet (which a lot of people DON'T have) into a plastic enclosure with lenses? whelanweb already elaborated on most of the issues I take with Attreyu's claims, so there's no sense in repeating them.

Personally, I think your phone-based VR HMD is not the VR experience I'm looking forward to have, Attreyu.

On the contrary, I think Oculus knows full well what the future is. They certainly think mobile is going to play a very big part of it, which is why they have Carmack focused on it.

MSat wrote:Wow. So Oculus is a bunch of idiots that will never deliver consumer hardware because (enter silly assumptions here) and they don't know the future of VR is shoving a suitable phone or heavy tablet (which a lot of people DON'T have) into a plastic enclosure with lenses? whelanweb already elaborated on most of the issues I take with Attreyu's claims, so there's no sense in repeating them.

Excuse me ? I have never, ever, said something derogatory towards the people from Oculus. I can't understand this attitude...I was talking about a paradigm shift in their tactics towards VR, from HMD to software/mobile, being the reason why, an year from now, the stand-alone Rift would have been put on hold completely in favour of other solutions.

MSat wrote:Personally, I think your phone-based VR HMD is not the VR experience I'm looking forward to have, Attreyu.

I can respect that. What I have a problem with is putting petty words in my mouth instead of expressing your views like a grown-up.

It'll be interesting to see what Sony have to offer.

As for an adaptor for a mobile; A phone is not tailored for use in a VR environment. If the persistence is too long, you'll end up with the problem that plagues most VR, smearing when you move your head.

The guys at Valve have discussed building custom drive hardware for a galaxy screen that lowered persistence and dramatically improved the experience, but you wont find that in a mobile phone as it would not enhance the experience of using the phone.

There's a point where improvement in a mobile screen becomes irrelevant to a mobile user. A VR device needs hardware to drive a screen in a way that a mobile phone would not.

I have no doubt that mobile devices will power lots of VR in the future, but I dont think itll be by sliding my mobile into a chassis that I wear on my head. Its disingenuous to suggest that a Oculus are doing no more than that.

I'm sorry but I would like to just say... "Told you so."

there's a question still of if sony will actually go through with this, but if they do given their resources and talent then there's no way oculus could compete. even with the talent oculus have, sony just has so many more people who have been working on similar things for so much longer. the high end PCs that can out do a PS4 are owned by a fraction of the install base required to make VR the next big thing.

This is Sony we're talking about. They're a prime example of how a big company can't act as nimble and focused as a smaller company like Oculus. They screw everything up, and they have many internal divisions that are all working against each other. Read up on the history of how the Playstation 1 was almost cannibalized by other divisions. Recall how Sony kept shooting themselves in the foot with the transition to digital music. Sony has been making lackluster HMDs since the '90s with the Sony Glasstron. Why would they suddenly figure everything out now?

Sony better hit a home run on this with a massive FOV, high res and full tracking or they could kill VR for another decade or more in the public eye.

And going by there current line of HMZ I am not optimistic. My guess is they will just bung some HMZ optics into another HMD, add some 180 degree only tracking, and call it VR.

Well we do know they have RiftDKs in their office and like them, so I wouldn't be surprised if their PS4 headset was using that as a template. I certianly don't expect them to do anything crazy innovative or different, like a dramatically higher FOV or anything like that. Just a highly polished, high-res version of the Rift, probably wireless, maybe with integrated headphones/microphone. But what do I know...

Oh yeah, and here's another reason why OVR will pivot - they don't want to compete with Sony / Microsoft / Consoles.

Here's my prediction, you heard it here first:

Sony will not actually come out with their own HMD, they will actually partner with Oculus Rift (Investing with them lots of money) and will launch a publishing division for oculus developers, they'll probably invest in or be the main publisher for EVE VR and other oculus made from the ground up games, and that will make their ps4 even a better choice as a console.

And they'll probably bundle it together when the rift comes out.. Buy ps4 and Oculus rift together and save $100 , or something.

langmyersknow wrote:Here's my prediction, you heard it here first:

Sony will not actually come out with their own HMD, they will actually partner with Oculus Rift (Investing with them lots of money) and will launch a publishing division for oculus developers, they'll probably invest in or be the main publisher for EVE VR and other oculus made from the ground up games, and that will make their ps4 even a better choice as a console.

And they'll probably bundle it together when the rift comes out.. Buy ps4 and Oculus rift together and save $100 , or something.

Lol. Dream on, Palmer!