2048x1536 PC Res Screen, Possible Oculus Rift upgrade?

[Moriarty]

As far as I know nobody has managed yet to hook up any Samsung phone/phablet/tablet screen to date.

Palmer probably managed to do it :

"Oculus is looking to implement a 1080p screen for the consumer unit (Oculus COO Laird Malamed told us that the 5-inch screen in the Samsung Galaxy S4 is well-liked by Palmer Luckey)"

[remosito]

As far as I know nobody has managed yet to hook up any Samsung phone/phablet/tablet screen to date.

Palmer probably managed to do it :

"Oculus is looking to implement a 1080p screen for the consumer unit (Oculus COO Laird Malamed told us that the 5-inch screen in the Samsung Galaxy S4 is well-liked by Palmer Luckey)"

Well the S4 screen is more than just well liked by me! Drool!

Doesn't mean I managed to hook it up!

[LukePoga]

the samsung is not true 1080p but its better than nothing.

[remosito]

the samsung is not true 1080p but its better than nothing.

on the other hand it's amoled. meaning superfast switching times. reducing blur on head movements.

You win sth, you loose sth!

[KingK76]

As far as I know nobody has managed yet to hook up any Samsung phone/phablet/tablet screen to date.

Palmer probably managed to do it :

"Oculus is looking to implement a 1080p screen for the consumer unit (Oculus COO Laird Malamed told us that the 5-inch screen in the Samsung Galaxy S4 is well-liked by Palmer Luckey)"

Well the S4 screen is more than just well liked by me! Drool!

Doesn't mean I managed to hook it up!

Well you are also not Palmer Luckey with a team of technicians behind him now are you.

[Moriarty]

May 15th the Google I/O conference starts, we might find out if the display of the new Nexus 7 is suitable for a Rift DevKit mod.

[remosito]

Well the S4 screen is more than just well liked by me! Drool!

Doesn't mean I managed to hook it up!

Well you are also not Palmer Luckey with a team of technicians behind him now are you.

You must have missed my winky smile!

My point mainly was Palmer Luckey has seen enough screens to not have to have one hooked up to an internal rift prototype to actually be able to judge if a screen is to his liking or not!

And that reading to much into that statement (and by that I mean assuming they managed to hook it up) might not be the best idea.

As for likelihood of them having managed it:
From what I know hooking up an LVDS panel is very hard. You need a panel specific driver board. Maybe they managed to source one. Maybe they are crackteam enough to reverse engineer one in the few weeks the S4 panel has been available.
I ain't gonna even guess if they managed or not. That kinda hw wizardry (or connections to driver board manufacturers) is waaaay beyond me. Abstain!

[greymatr]

I did quick test by removing my A eyecups from my rift and holding them about an inch or so above my ipad 3's screen (as in a real iPad not a hacked screen) while on the home screen.

The screen door effect is definitely still there, the pixels are slightly smaller due to the higher PPI though. It's possible to get about 4 home screen icons in view at once in each eye. After taking a screenshot and measuring this it is only using about 18% of the screen size available. So for an iPad 3 screen HMD to be effective it would definitely need different lenses.

[Moriarty]

From what I know hooking up an LVDS panel is very hard. You need a panel specific driver board.

Don't know what kind of panel the S4 has, but I thought it was the other way around : LVDS= rather easy MIPI=difficult, at least with the current Rift DevKit setup :

The panel used in the Nook HD is a MIPI panel. Hard/impossible to find parts to drive it. A LVDS/MIPI bridge would have to be developed.

There are no good solutions for MIPI panels right now. Toshiba makes a LVDS/MIPI bridge chip, but I have not looked into it much.

This was why I was hoping for a Nexus 7 with a 7 inch 1080p display and a LVDS interface. It would be almost as easy as "panel out/panel in" :

If a better panel does come available at some point, how difficult do you think it will be to replace the current panel? Would it require a total redesign of the optics and packaging or do you think it could "more-or-less" be a drop-in that any of us DIY'ers could accomplish?

It would be trivially easy. The most it would need is a new panel mount, which would cost only a few dollars. If a new panel came out, I would probably jump on doing a group buy for people to upgrade.

[remosito]

@Dr Zimmermann:

Thank you most kindly for those quotes. Maybe I just made LVDS harder in my head than it actualy is.

I thought as LVDS simply stands for Low Voltage Differential Signalling that only the signalling type/form is determined by the
standard. But not what you actually send over the link. So even if you have two panels, both with same size and res, what you actually have to send them is different. Which is why there are so many different hdmi to lvds boards are out there. Many seemingly only working with certain screens but not others!

And I thought that is precisely the advantage of embedded Displayport. where 2 screens with same res will expect the same input.

But maybe I am getting it all wrong. Or maybe for people with the right background, figuring out that LVdS signalling isn't that hard.

shudder to think mipi is even worse!

Btw galaxy S3 seemed to have been mipi. So S4 and Note 3 might just as well

And a guy at my hw distance level has to hope for eDP to take off before being able to play with the hc guys

In any case I would be extremely grateful for corrections, clarifications or hints

[remosito]

finally found the page again where I got some of the ideas In my head about lvds from:

http://www.cables-oem.com/html_news/edp-cables-25.html

Here the most relevant part:

LVDS is annoying in several ways. First, you need to find a LCD controller board SPECIFIC for a particular lcd panels, and even then you are limited to 1080p-call me spoiled. Good thing is that there is this new interface for LCD panels, embedded displayport that can support higher resolution, greater modularity, and simply allows for much more compact build than the traditional LVDS LCD panels& controller combo. Well, there is only one down side to it: it is brand spanking new and there's only a handful documentations and devices that support it.

I discovered eDP when I was reading the spec sheet for the LCD of iPad retina display.

if somebody with the relevant knowledge could verify or correct above statements I would be very grateful.
Really trying to learn and understand.

[remosito]

http://www.tarduino.cc/2013_04_01_archive.html
http://dp2retina.rozsnyo.com/

displaPort to ipad retina display adaptor!

[greymatr]

A $99 adapter to plug a displayport cable into a ribbon cable on a $55 screen, doesn't feel right. I've been hoping that the guy who did the hack would do a kickstarter or something for adapter boards.

[KBK]

LVDS is a descriptor for a signal type and signal interface, yes. Over time it has become a connectivity system with a certain amount of standardization. It is also used in a way, generally, that adds little in the way of latency. with regard to HMD use, any other system of connectivity that may be used must also pass the qualification of adding little to no latency on the draw speed for the panel.

My ignorance of the existing hardware available (LVDS) and any potential hardware that is speculated (MIPI, displayport interface) etc, precludes me from making any generalizations beyond that. It goes back to the situation that exists, which is that the vast majority of 'fast' monitors (high frame rates and fast draw times) are of an LVDS interface format.

There is no reason why any other system of connectivity cannot be used in the Rift, if it is found to be fast enough, as such a system would be invisible, a pass-through regarding overall full DUT I-to-O signal handling. It would be an internal integration/translation that is meaningless unless one wants to break the item open and mess with the innards.

Innolux has apparently taken on the Sharp IGZO panel technology and is apparently beginning to produce panels of that type/design. They will more than likely be producing panels in the appropriate size, PPI, type, and interface style.

Dev-2 is no rush, it is not as harried as the first (Dev-1), which is the currently delivered package. This means a month of waiting either way, for the perfect panel (to appear), is no biggie. June-July is the window for finding this out.

This Google thingie (dog and pony show) that is coming up this month of May, may possibly, as stated, bring about the opportunity to find out the answer to this question of what panels may be available for Rift use. A panel that is a direct and simple integration.

[remosito]

A $99 adapter to plug a displayport cable into a ribbon cable on a $55 screen, doesn't feel right. I've been hoping that the guy who did the hack would do a kickstarter or something for adapter boards.

It does a weebit more than that. like backlight steering.

They do mention they cant do a KS as you have to be either in the us or uk.

So they are using this custom made board to fund their actual project they work on.

Doesn't make it any cheaper. Won't be up everybodies alley. But thought they deserve a mention of all this.

If we'd know the new ipad mini retina has edp and that board is compatible. I'd probably buy a couple!

[Lilwolf]

But $150 for a simple upgrade might be worth it.

It would be nice if someone created a cheap version though (on the website they said "Please do not fall for a cheap copy from unskilled designers who use a constant voltage and few resistors - they will not adjust to the thermal changes and will cause your screen to wear out faster."....)

Well, if it wears out faster, but the consumer version is ready by then... saving 50 bucks and I would be happy.

A $99 adapter to plug a displayport cable into a ribbon cable on a $55 screen, doesn't feel right. I've been hoping that the guy who did the hack would do a kickstarter or something for adapter boards.

[geekmaster]

But $150 for a simple upgrade might be worth it.

It would be nice if someone created a cheap version though (on the website they said "Please do not fall for a cheap copy from unskilled designers who use a constant voltage and few resistors - they will not adjust to the thermal changes and will cause your screen to wear out faster."....)

Well, if it wears out faster, but the consumer version is ready by then... saving 50 bucks and I would be happy.

A $99 adapter to plug a displayport cable into a ribbon cable on a $55 screen, doesn't feel right. I've been hoping that the guy who did the hack would do a kickstarter or something for adapter boards.

So what is wrong with the simple DIY adapter board from the original hackaday post?

http://hackaday.com/2013/04/22/connect- ... -computer/
http://emerythacks.blogspot.com/2013/04 ... to-pc.html

DIY adapter board: https://github.com/Emeryth/iPad3_lcd



The extra parts on the board are current limiting resistors for the LED backlight strings.

[remosito]

@KBK:

Thank you for your clarifications regarding LVDS. Really appreciated.

Not worried at all about Devkit V2 btw. More interested in doing a riftmod that would significantly surpass the most likely
V2 resolution (HD split screen). By using 2 screens. Ideally that would be 2 of those 5" HD panels. But the more I read
the less likely it sounds that could be achieved without serious hw tinkering knowledge. 1 ipad panel would be only 50%
gain over devkit V2. And 2 ipad panels is to big. So it's down to hoping for retina ipad mini with edp connector. And that
one is like 5 months out.

I guess for me it boils down to not feasible for the moment. Gotta wait and see.

[Zoide]

remosito: There's always the InfinitEye

[remosito]

So what is wrong with the simple DIY adapter board from the original hackaday post?

http://hackaday.com/2013/04/22/connect- ... -computer/
http://emerythacks.blogspot.com/2013/04 ... to-pc.html

DIY adapter board: https://github.com/Emeryth/iPad3_lcd


The extra parts on the board are current limiting resistors for the LED backlight strings.

Nothing wrong with that one per se! As it works!

But for me that's a couple of levels to deep in HW tinkering. I don't have any of the necessary equipment and skills. It's definitely faster and maybe even cheaper to pay for those boards and help fund their real project along with it. I'd probably burn through a dozen PCBs and fry at least one screen before I have 2 that are usable

[remosito]

remosito: There's always the InfinitEye

Something along those lines indeed!

But 1280x800 per eye is not worth it for me!

[LukePoga]

I am thinking now the HTC One panel is THE panel for the new rift. it is a 4.7" 1080p and the pixel fill pattern is much better than the samsung s4 panels. there is also a 5" variant of this panel. Are there any technical downsides to using 4.7" panel? Is it too small to get a good fov with available lenses?

if someone wants to try a HTC One, you should he able to pipe in hdmi. throw in the rift head tracking board and hydra positional board and you have a next gen system. well, besides new lenses. not sure how to pick lenses myself.

[greymatr]

if someone wants to try a HTC One, you should he able to pipe in hdmi. throw in the rift head tracking board and hydra positional board and you have a next gen system. well, besides new lenses. not sure how to pick lenses myself.

The "pipe in hdmi" is the problem. You will need some way of communicating with the screen which will require a driver board to convert hdmi to it's signal. Any idea what system it uses? LVDS, MIPI, eDP?

So what is wrong with the simple DIY adapter board from the original hackaday post?

http://hackaday.com/2013/04/22/connect- ... -computer/
http://emerythacks.blogspot.com/2013/04 ... to-pc.html

DIY adapter board: https://github.com/Emeryth/iPad3_lcd


The extra parts on the board are current limiting resistors for the LED backlight strings.

Nothing wrong with that one per se! As it works!

But for me that's a couple of levels to deep in HW tinkering. I don't have any of the necessary equipment and skills. It's definitely faster and maybe even cheaper to pay for those boards and help fund their real project along with it. I'd probably burn through a dozen PCBs and fry at least one screen before I have 2 that are usable

I'm with remosito, I haven't soldered down to that size connector etc. I have ordered them and I will give that board a go but if I could get a pre-made board it would be better for me. I just don't think it needs to be as complicated as a $99 board when that board you posted would do me fine. I was just hoping he'd see the opportunity to produce and sell them, there is a lot of comments from people wanting them in his post.

[geekmaster]

... I'm with remosito, I haven't soldered down to that size connector etc. I have ordered them and I will give that board a go but if I could get a pre-made board it would be better for me. I just don't think it needs to be as complicated as a $99 board when that board you posted would do me fine. I was just hoping he'd see the opportunity to produce and sell them, there is a lot of comments from people wanting them in his post.

I posted this at the OculusVR forum in reply to a question on this same topic. Others enjoyed the instructional videos, so I thought some may appreciate it here too:

Just curious... How goes the retina connection?

The inexpensive ($56 shipped) iPad Retina LCD panels use connectors that are so freaking tiny that there is no way I can even think about hand soldering wires to those connector pins, so I first need to make a DIY PCB "breakout board" for these LCD connectors.

First, I need to gather the tools and parts I need for a DIY project like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv7Y8nAOoFE

And being the DIY homebrew maker enthusiast that I am, I would make my DIY breakout board PCB like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQupRXEqOz4

Then I can etch my PCBs with DIY etchant, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-I_6kgcRg

And then I can solder my connectors to my DIY connector breakout board PCBs like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yyUlABj29o

These connectors are much finer pitch (smaller and closer pins) than the example SMT part shown in the above video, but the same soldering technique can be used for these much smaller parts.

So, what is delaying construction of my Retina LCD panel DIY Rift clone is that I need to make a PCB, using the methods shown above...

I certainly enjoyed watching those videos again, and I hope it encourages you to actually use your connectors.

[Lilwolf]

My eyes aren't good enough for tiny soldering (as proven by my last wii mod chip install where I had to have a friend do it. darn those leads were small).

But I would go for it if that was the option. I'm curious about how the mounting, and how well it does with the current optics.

And I'm guessing that if someone could kickstart a board plus a back plate to replace the current to hold it in the right place, it would be a good option for those who wait.

But $150 for a simple upgrade might be worth it.

It would be nice if someone created a cheap version though (on the website they said "Please do not fall for a cheap copy from unskilled designers who use a constant voltage and few resistors - they will not adjust to the thermal changes and will cause your screen to wear out faster."....)

Well, if it wears out faster, but the consumer version is ready by then... saving 50 bucks and I would be happy.

A $99 adapter to plug a displayport cable into a ribbon cable on a $55 screen, doesn't feel right. I've been hoping that the guy who did the hack would do a kickstarter or something for adapter boards.

So what is wrong with the simple DIY adapter board from the original hackaday post?

http://hackaday.com/2013/04/22/connect- ... -computer/
http://emerythacks.blogspot.com/2013/04 ... to-pc.html

DIY adapter board: https://github.com/Emeryth/iPad3_lcd



The extra parts on the board are current limiting resistors for the LED backlight strings.

[greymatr]

I posted this at the OculusVR forum in reply to a question on this same topic. Others enjoyed the instructional videos, so I thought some may appreciate it here too:

I certainly enjoyed watching those videos again, and I hope it encourages you to actually use your connectors.

Thanks for those videos geekmaster, I watched them all and they were all great. Especially the last video as I hadn't heard of that technique before and I was wondering how I was going to do it. This gives me a lot of encouragement. I got my connectors today and they are even smaller than I was thinking they would be but I will definitely give it a go now. But my screens have been held up, they've told me that they are having trouble with their suppliers because the screen is in high demand at the moment. I wonder if it is because of this hack!

[ChrisByatt]

It seems that one of these displays would be perfect... maybe we should get a quote for a large order and then start a kickstarter project for a hi res mod kit?!

http://liliputing.com/2012/11/japan-dis ... blets.html
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/japan_ ... ixels.html

They were demoed in 2012... I wonder where they are now!

[Marcel]

It seems that one of these displays would be perfect... maybe we should get a quote for a large order and then start a kickstarter project for a hi res mod kit?!

If somebody is doing that I would be in!

[ChrisByatt]

I'm happy to get a quote and sort all the contact stuff.. but who wants to do the hardware side??

[greymatr]

I don't see mentioned anywhere what kind of signalling input these displays have. Some displays are proprietary signalling so controller hardware would be extremely difficult and expensive.

[ChrisByatt]

Maybe we should get together a list of questions I should ask (I get free calls abroad from work so it's ok haha)

1. Do these displays actually exist?
2. What's the highest resolution 7 inch display you can do (they've just created a 2 inch display at 680 ppi!!!!)
3. What signalling input do your displays use (not really sure what sort of answer I'm looking for with this one)

[Marcel]

3. What signalling input do your displays use (not really sure what sort of answer I'm looking for with this one)

Do they have a controller that accepts DVI / HDMI input for the screen.

I hope they speak English. I might know somebody who can speak Japanese if not

[remosito]

I always thought just to set up a factory before you crank out a single display costs millions of dollars. Then you have to pay your due on their development and production kinks workout dev. Again Millions if you want to be one of the first to get a display...

But I really have no relevant experience. Just reading between the lines of smartphone and tablets articles...

[ChrisByatt]

They've got offices in Germany and the US

[ChrisByatt]

How about this display??
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/aquo ... ragon-600/

[geekmaster]

My third ipad3 IPS display just arrived. This one was $56 (free shipping) I think, from a Chinese ebay store. Like the others, it too has minor scratches on the display surface, so these are all obviously good salvaged parts, but at that price still a great value.

Now, I need to make my connector-breakout PCBs very soon. Or, did somebody else make some they will sell "at cost"?

[greymatr]

I got my 2 iPad screens. I opened one and it has fine scratches on it too. I wish I could turn it on and see what they actually look like on the display. I already had my connectors as I said earlier but they aren't the right ones. I couldn't get the exact one from my local supplier but these ones matched all the specs but it looks like it's not close enough. The cable just won't go in. So I'll try and order from overseas.

I looked for pre-made boards again but I can only find the rozsnyo one, i.e. $99 plus shipping from Czech Republic. (http://dp2retina.rozsnyo.com/). But I'm even more reluctant to do that now I've seen the scratches on my screen and I don't know how they will look.

So it's back to waiting for me but I'd like to hear if you make any more progress Geekmaster.

[Guygasm]

How about this display??
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/aquo ... ragon-600/

Thought the same thing when I saw that tablet. IGZO is supposed to have fast refresh times. I don't remember seeing anything regarding fill factor on IGZO though.

[greymatr]

I have come across someone else who is attempting to follow the iPad screen hack and make a controller board. He is only half way through so far and he is getting boards made at a PCB place. But you might find interesting to see what he is trying to accomplish. It starts with part 0 and goes on to part 3 so far.

http://mikesmods.com/mm-wp/?p=16

[Ryuuken24]

People wanting to put a 9.7" as a HMD, now that's some fishing a whale from a paddle boat talk. Why not try to get a screen on the same size as the current Oculus rift uses? If you're already planning on breaking it open and going nuts, maybe losing it in the process and not getting your hand on another one, unless for ebay 1200$, that 55 dollars price start to seem, unreal.