Devkit Shipping Service

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KBK
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by KBK »

bobv5 wrote:Not too concerned about the tax, but more delays would do unhealthy things to my mind.

Just done a quick price check, to ship a Rift via airmail from UK to USA is £62, or to China is £70. Assuming the Rift package is less than 1.5Kg, and the price is similar going the other way, I would happily pay that to get it in the next 2 to 3 days!

if you were charged for UPS shipping, then that is the time period it will take. 2-3 days.

If you were charged for parcel post...USA to UK, via ground, is fairly short, about 10 days, max. This is based on a eastern seaboard origin point and they are in California, so add about 3 days. Earliest 8-9 days...13-14, on the long side.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by GeraldT »

bob I guess many would - maybe they will offer a last minute "add express shipping" option, or maybe they say they have enough on their hands and are just happy if it all goes smoothly the way it is ... we will see, I would pay that too to get it that fast ;)
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by bobv5 »

It was whatever the kickstarter shipping is, if it said I didn't notice.

The shipping from USA to UK is always fairly quick, sometimes quicker than UK to UK. Its the four weeks on a boat from China to USA first!!!

I know it is not really so simple, but it is pretty frustrating knowing that these things could be on peoples faces 3 days after rolling off the line. If they are still on schedule, a few thousand people would already have Rifts.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by maboo63 »

hmm maybe for some ppl fedex isnt the best choice for the rift:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3dc_1359742762
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by KBK »

UPS can be no better. one is not necessarily better than the other. It's a matter of luck/ chance, to some degree. Fed ex is simply more likely to pay out when things break, IMO and IME. But more expensive as a shipping service, when going international. I have an ~40% ups discount rate due to volume. (not unusual)

To prevent this from being an issue: At (our particular company) the factory, we designed a packaging method that seemed ridiculous.

That we'd bubble wrap the product with about 4 inches of padding on all sides. Then an over spec'ed cardboard box. Then the box is almost completely taped. all seams and joins, taped. We used overspec adhesive tape, the shipping type, not the gentle use in house type. We used a slightly thicker substrate tape and the tape is the ultra wide type of packing tape, not the tiny 48mm type, but the 72mm wide (3") tape and tape guns. Then this, all over the cardboard box. (all seams)

After we showed the person how to make the package...we'd hold the package..turn away from the work bench..while holding it in front of us..and heave it up into the air, with a good solid spin. This is a ~20lb (~10kg) parcel, on the higher side, but not unusual. That the parcel would spin in the air, at head height..and then smack hard onto the cement floor, about 6 feet down from it's peak 'flight'. the person would look a bit bemused, and we'd say, "that is the kind of abuse that the parcel will be required to handle, on about one dozen occasions, before it is delivered. This is a worst case scenario, but it is not unusual. You have to build a shipment to this level of protection. every time."

The point is that the vast majority of the electronics that one buys has packaging that is designed to be on skids, and then gently shipped across countries and oceans, or on trucks, all while still skid packaged...then the skid of goods disassembled at the end point.. and the product gently put on store shelves. That packaging for postal, UPS, or Fed-EX shipping has to be notably more robust and protective.

It is, in my experience, not good to assume that the packaging for lets say, a 24" Samsung PC monitor, it's box..is robust enough to be the shipping box for sending it cross country via UPS or another shipping service. That 9 times out of 10 the item will survive the trip. But when shipping not just one to some person who won an auction on your ebay sale, that this is a case of hard numbers, if one is shipping the same thing out constantly. Which is the case with XXk items. That if packaging is not not carefully planned, the losses, as a percentage, can get ugly.

Tight packaging, with no loose aspects... and in the hard contact points on the given inner styrene or cardboard substitute... a peak g-shock reduction layer of foam or the like (that is not overcompressed!.. otherwise-it is useless). Nor can the given g-shock reduction layer have too much contact area, as this would severely reduce it's effectiveness. That sort of acceleration reduction is enough to keep things 'safe'. Thus, if anyone here is shipping stuff cross country or whatnot, this is valuable information, gleaned from being deep in the 'shipping war trenches' for about a decade. That with the extra bit put into the shipping packaging, our losses dropped to a near zero, well below 1%.

In how this related to having your dev kit ship -is simple: Don't panic.

I'm not involved in any way, and I'm a chicken little barking at ghosts, all for the sake of making conversation. :?
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by pAnatiC »

Total customs value: €269.18 - Duty: €37.69 - VAT: €58.30 Total landed cost: €365.1
To germany if iam right. Calculated 50$ shipping..

Any one had problems b4 shipping something worth a oculus to germany?
Dont wanna pay poop ton of euros at the end cause something "went wrong", or got stuck at the customs.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

crespo80 wrote:I live in Italy (where we have one of the most inefficient customs i the world) and I wouldn't know which option to choose, between a private courier (UPS) and the standard USPS.
USPS will take forever from the US, usually 3/4 weeks, but more often than not I will not pay any customs duty or, if any, they are reasonable most of the time.
UPS usually takes just a week from the US but I will pay the customs duty 100% of the time, and in my experience they were fair (if the customs declaration from the sender is correct).
I'd go with UPS for the rift (because I want it yesterday :mrgreen: ) but you oculus guys have to be sure to write a 100% perfect form!
I'm italian too, and recently i had custom issues for a 20$ lens magnifier with USPS...unbelieveable :(

This is the first time it happens, but i'm afraid to order the rift because it doesn't have the CE signature and it probably could be stopped at the Italian custom.
The way to unlock the shipment is a shame (no email, no fax) and there is the concrete possibilty that the item could be ''destroyed'' because it doesn't have the European CE requiments.

Do you know if Oculus give us some warranty in case something like this happens before order the Dev Kit?
I'd like also point that this happens rarely (luckily),but pay 300 Euros without warranty it's out of discussion for me.

Thanks.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Hoopey »

I just hope they dont destroy the packets because of the missing CE Signs.
Oculus need to be sure to sell the devkits to countrys where its no risk to get them destroyed.
Otherwise i would want my money back.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

i'm afraid it can happens...in Europe the CE sign is very important....i hope for some confirmations regarding that from Oculus team.
If they can give us money back in that case i'd like to order the dev kit.

In italian forums i can see a lot of discussions regarding destroyed packages and i think it happens in all EU since those are European community laws (not only Italy related).
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

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"CE marking is a self-certification scheme. Retailers sometimes refer to products as "CE approved", but they have misunderstood the scheme. However, certain categories of products must be type-tested against specific technical standards by an independent body: CE marking in itself does not indicate that this has been done."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

two of the major, ok three, tend to stand out as the bigger issues. fusing, failure mode testing, and RF output. Oh yes, grounding safety,things of that nature.

That in North America, for example, if one supplies an outboard power supply, that the outboard power supply must meet certifications standards, but that the unpowered unit that this power supply is connected to...needs almost none.

I would not worry about it too much.

I've had to do the RoHS thing and will probably have to do the CE marking thing soon, on some products that will go to Europe.

I can put the RoHS mark and the CE mark on my equipment that I'm selling into that market if I wish. In that, there is no cost, and no issues. The issue begins if it is inspected and not found to comply. then it gets into complications about having made guarantees and violating them. IIRC, I need to register with RoHS, only with regard that I have received notification of their rules and regulations. that they have me ON RECORD saying that I have seen their requirements and understnd them... and have made sure that my products do indeed meet those requirements. There is no demand for more complications, outside of that communication.

CE marking is not all that different than that of RoHS.

If I am sure that my product meets those codes, I mark it with those particular symbols.

When it comes to Oculus and their product, I'm guessing that it meets the CE (and RoHS) requirements handily, and that they will be moving down that road in whatever way they need to, in order to get the product safely into Europe.

Basically, anyone who is freaking....please remain calm. The answers are simple.

(I've no connection to Oculus, BTW)

It's technical description for those markets would be something like 'unpowered micro display'. The end. Then the CE logo, and RoHS logo.

The outboard POWER SUPPLY, sourced from a legitimate and compliant supplier...would have TUV, CE, UL and CSA..as well as RoHS written on it. As it has to, as it is connected to AC lines, at 100-240VAC. (far, far more stringent requirements than that of a 'unpowered' device like the HMD 'unpowered micro display' unit)
Last edited by KBK on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Fredz »

I live in France and have bought several items from the US in the past months (LCD display, lenses, book, DVD) and I've never had such problems. I guess it's quite specific to some European countries like Italy or Germany, or I'm just lucky.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

TBH i think you've been lucky...i've never had custom issues from products imported from other countries, but last time with a lens sent from USA i had some custom check procedures...it costs more than the lens itself unlocking the package so i decided to give it up.

I think those controls are made randomly, and you can be simply lucky on my end :)

Sadly i wouldn't risk the same thing with a 300$ package, but probably KBK has right.
Maybe the stuff destroyed from custom it's just packages from fake chinese imitations of known brands.
Oculus should be safe from this side.

However, some clarifications from Oculus team would be great...i think a lot of backers are outside USA.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by KBK »

Do not ship into Italy or Spain via parcel post, things tend to go missing. People want deliveries to be cheap,and then they demand that I ship a given item via post. I get a written guarantee from them, ahead of time, that I will provide proof that I shipped the item..and it is out of my hands after that, and they cannot demand their money back by telling paypal that I have stolen from them, as the item was never delivered. If they want me to use post, then... they must sign off on all guarantees in order to have that happen. many eBay sellers simply refuse to post or sell anything to anyone in Spain or Italy. It really is that bad.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

It would be enough having a shipment service that can avoid the Italian customs.
I'd pay some extra for this,but i'd be sure to have my Dev Kit once it will be shipped.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by alexlf »

The last time I had something $300 shipped from the US to Canada, it ended up costing me over $100 to pick up the package, partially because of taxes (which I fully understand), but UPS also decided to charge a ~$60 brokerage fee on top of everything which is plain ridiculous. Frankly, UPS is pretty terrible for shipping to Canada. I'd go for USPS, never had a problem with them.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Cernos »

Hmmmm, i see, i was going to order it tommorrow, i ordered thing outside and nerver happened nothing to me, but i have doughts now , hmm

I am from Spain!
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Kerry »

alexlf wrote:The last time I had something $300 shipped from the US to Canada, it ended up costing me over $100 to pick up the package, partially because of taxes (which I fully understand), but UPS also decided to charge a ~$60 brokerage fee on top of everything which is plain ridiculous. Frankly, UPS is pretty terrible for shipping to Canada. I'd go for USPS, never had a problem with them.
Wow, I'm from Canada as well, but didn't think it was that expensive to order from the US.
I've ordered expensive items off Ebay, but the sellers were always generous enough to mark the cost down.
Hopefully we'll get a rough idea of when we're going to receive the Rift, I need to put some money aside :shock:

edit: Just checked out the cost and USP is $45 more than USPS
http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Popopinsel »

pAnatiC wrote:Total customs value: €269.18 - Duty: €37.69 - VAT: €58.30 Total landed cost: €365.1
To germany if iam right. Calculated 50$ shipping..

Any one had problems b4 shipping something worth a oculus to germany?
Dont wanna pay poop ton of euros at the end cause something "went wrong", or got stuck at the customs.
Have a look at my calculation based on my email communication with the German Customs Office in Cologne: OculusVR_Zoll @ Google Docs. No warranty though, the Customs Office was only able to explain me how customs and taxes were calculated in general and where and how to categorize the product. See table #2 (Grundlage) in the document.

In short: 333,15 € (hopefully). I paid with PayPal so it's their exchange rate at that particular time and date of my order.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by KBK »

Cernos wrote:Hmmmm, i see, i was going to order it tommorrow, i ordered thing outside and nerver happened nothing to me, but i have doughts now , hmm

I am from Spain!
In my experience, sending UPS to Spain is generally fine. It is the use of the post office that can be a problem. UPS does well getting things into most countries. After all, their business is a shipping business, operating successfully in almost every country in the world. I have shipped parcels multiple times, to Greenland, using UPS.

Postal can be better IF you arrange to pick it up at the postal office, and specify a tracking number when it is shipped, if at all possible. Getting a tracking number may work well, but it may cost more than regular post. Almost as much as UPS shipping, or more, on overseas shipments.

It is also important to understand that my 'opinion' on successful shipping comes from many parcels, over many years, so it is an average, not an absolute.

Paying close attention to the details is critical. Like I said earlier, being very careful with the construction of the address. And choosing a ship to location, maybe something like a business owned by a friend may also be helpful, as they would normally receive many parcels.

That Oculus may ship the DEV kit in a plain box, so it does not look like anything worth stealing. All these sorts of small details work in your favor, when trying to ensure that your parcel arrives.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Matoz »

For the german backers:

Last year I ordered a 3D Printer (Solidoodle) from the US. It was 550 $ for the printer + ABS + shipping. Had to pay the 19% vat when I remember correctly. So you should definitly expect this at customs.

Unfortunately I was not allowed to take the printer with me the first time because of its "prototype" nature it had to been checked for savety. Properly grounded power adapter has already been mentioned here. So I had to wait another week to get it tested before I could take it with me. The power adapter had the CE sign on it and it needed to get testet anyway. Maybe because of the printer board on the backside or they did not trust the CE sign on the power adapter.
So get mentally prepared for an additional week. But my guess is it depends on the packaging. The printer really looked prototyped after opening at customs. If the Oculus Rift is packacked in a nicely box like smartphones are now it might be no problem. When asked what it is I will just say it is some kind of display.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

At the end i thrust in Oculus and i want to support the cause :)

Pre-order done N.045752 :)

Let's cross the fingers
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by LNQ »

There's been 300 orders in the past week then, comparing my order number to yours.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

Assuming order numbers are progressive (wich i think them are) there's still a huge amount of orders...TBH i wanted to wait a bit, but i was afraid with the continous orders increasing Devs decided to close the pre orders
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by TheHolyChicken »

torc wrote:At the end i thrust in Oculus and i want to support the cause :)

Pre-order done N.045752 :)

Let's cross the fingers
All I can think of is:

FAN: "I thrust in Oculus".
Palmer: "It was great having me".
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

Agreed....Many thanks to Palmer and all the Oculus team (and obviously to all MTBS3D community) :)
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by pAnatiC »

Thanks for your order! Your order number is 045821.

*fingers crossed* :)
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

wow, 69 orders just in one day :D
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by 2EyeGuy »

As an Australian I think I don't have to worry about any of these problems. Although we have strict customs regulations, it's free, quick, and reliable for anything under $1000. As long as the Rift isn't made out of wood, there should be no problems here.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by supermike »

2EyeGuy

Australia is a puppet country of the corporations and us government. We should thank our overlords that we have computers in the first place.

But yea......... as long as it does not have any wood or Pygmy Hedgehog's we should be right mate. Time to ride my kangaroo to the market to buy some damper. Crikey!
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by cybereality »

@supermike: There is a no politics rule on this forum, so watch where you are heading.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by supermike »

cybereality i must have missed that memo. Bring it up in the next meeting will you. How your KPI's going?
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by cybereality »

Also: "I thrust in Oculus".

Comedy. Gold.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

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cybereality wrote:Also: "I thrust in Oculus".

Comedy. Gold.
@torc, we should probably explain ourselves, as obviously english isn't your first language :)

The word you were looking for was 'trust'. This means you have faith in someone; that you think they will do the right thing.
What you said was 'thrust', which is to strongly/quickly push something... such as a body part. If a man and a woman love each other very much, you might expect that there would be some 'thrusting' going on. :roll:

Oculus translates to 'eye', from Latin. Basically, "I thrust in Oculus" give me the mental image of you sticking your willy in someone's eye.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by Endothermic »

2EyeGuy wrote:it's free, quick, and reliable for anything under $1000.
Careful, you might jinx it and we'll get a customs officer that inspects them and has heard mention of the RIFT from their geeky friend but doesn't know much about it, just that it's kinda like that sony thing only better and does stuff it can't do so therefore it must cost more then the sony and it costs over $1000 so we'll tax everyone getting one of these at a price of around $1500 :P
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by PasticheDonkey »

TheHolyChicken wrote:
cybereality wrote:Also: "I thrust in Oculus".

Comedy. Gold.
@torc, we should probably explain ourselves, as obviously english isn't your first language :)

The word you were looking for was 'trust'. This means you have faith in someone; that you think they will do the right thing.
What you said was 'thrust', which is to strongly/quickly push something... such as a body part. If a man and a woman love each other very much, you might expect that there would be some 'thrusting' going on. :roll:

Oculus translates to 'eye', from Latin. Basically, "I thrust in Oculus" give me the mental image of you sticking your willy in someone's eye.
this makes me think how long until people think oculus is part of the illuminati developing a product to better mind control people.
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by torc »

TheHolyChicken wrote:
cybereality wrote:Also: "I thrust in Oculus".

Comedy. Gold.
@torc, we should probably explain ourselves, as obviously english isn't your first language :)

The word you were looking for was 'trust'. This means you have faith in someone; that you think they will do the right thing.
What you said was 'thrust', which is to strongly/quickly push something... such as a body part. If a man and a woman love each other very much, you might expect that there would be some 'thrusting' going on. :roll:

Oculus translates to 'eye', from Latin. Basically, "I thrust in Oculus" give me the mental image of you sticking your willy in someone's eye.

LOL! I'm really sorry about that...as you can see i'm Italian and my English sucks! :P
TBH your message seems to me a bit ironic but i didn't understand on my end.

Anyway thanks for the explanation, hope you'll be patient with me :D

EDIT: Thrust in oculus is a great experience, rift or not :D
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Re: Devkit Shipping Service

Post by KBK »

PasticheDonkey wrote:
this makes me think how long until people think oculus is part of the illuminati developing a product to better mind control people.
Then people will have to work hard at showing the benefits. I do expect the backlash. Some people go to parties, some people shun them.

It's a door. Where one goes when entering it, is entirely an open choice. It also depends on applications available, to open up all sides of the potential equations.

The level of immersion will have people tinkering with their wiring as a natural byproduct. This is a known aspect, essentially it is a multiplier effect of sorts, when it comes to the idea of amplified and multiplied experience and potential for personal evolution. People can twist it in all kinds of directions. The trick is to keep it in the hands the end user - out of the hands of major corporations when it comes to specifying the ground rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccqY-R_M2nY
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