IZ3D laser sight?

[Nobsi]

To LCountach:
They are wired, but so you don't have problems with empty batteries. I prefer wired glasses.

To Neil:
Sorry for the "one eye aiming myth". I understand the concept of the iZ3D aiming and that depending on the driver setting one of the two visible crosshairs is exatly over the target. But the second cross hair always irritates me, as does the fact that the cross hair is on screen depth, while the target is far away. I actually must close one eye to be able to aim. This seems to be a person specific problem, but I am not the only one.
On the other hand I was totally comfortable with the 3D cross hair found in the nvidia driver.

To BlackQ:
Im not sure I understand you right. To lift the confusion:
1) We are talking about CRTs or TFT monitors or both?
2) Since TFTs normally have 60Hz horizontal refresh rate, that would be 30Hz per eye and awfully flicker or am I wrong?
3) Why can the graphic card be set only to maximum resolution? Page flipping normally works in any resolution the monitor and card supports. The limit is normally the refresh rate, which goes lower for higher resolutions and 100 Hz is the lower limit for flicker free viewing, at least for CRTs.
4) I guess to work, the shutter controller must be synced by the VGA Vsync signal, I'm not sure if the eDimensionals use another specifically generated signal by their driver, which can't be done by iZ3D, because they have only a wrapper around the graphic driver

[Welder]

This is very interesting to me, I didn't know this issue even existed, Because, myself personally the default crosshair is always at the dead center of the screen to me, and always hits dead on. Maybe is is due to my bad eyes

[yuriythebest]

Nobsi- if you have a TFT at 60hz max refresh rate you won't be able to get decent stereo3d, if any. no driver can fix this.

[Neil]

Hi Nobsi!

Sorry for the "one eye aiming myth". I understand the concept of the iZ3D aiming and that depending on the driver setting one of the two visible crosshairs is exatly over the target. But the second cross hair always irritates me, as does the fact that the cross hair is on screen depth, while the target is far away. I actually must close one eye to be able to aim. This seems to be a person specific problem, but I am not the only one. On the other hand I was totally comfortable with the 3D cross hair found in the nvidia driver.

The cross-hair is rendered in both eyes, but it isn't doubled at all. Try the drivers in anaglyph mode if you have to. One cross-hair, single location, rendered to both eyes. Nothing to apologize for.

Regards,
Neil

[LCountach]

Hi Nobsi!

Sorry for the "one eye aiming myth". I understand the concept of the iZ3D aiming and that depending on the driver setting one of the two visible crosshairs is exatly over the target. But the second cross hair always irritates me, as does the fact that the cross hair is on screen depth, while the target is far away. I actually must close one eye to be able to aim. This seems to be a person specific problem, but I am not the only one. On the other hand I was totally comfortable with the 3D cross hair found in the nvidia driver.

The cross-hair is rendered in both eyes, but it isn't doubled at all. Try the drivers in anaglyph mode if you have to. One cross-hair, single location, rendered to both eyes. Nothing to apologize for.

Regards,
Neil

Wait! What? The crosshair is most certainly doubled. The drivers may not actually render the crosshair twice but the user certainly sees Two of them. It doesn't matter what mode the drivers are in. Dominant eye Left/Right whatever. It simply allows you to aim with your dominant eye. There are still Two perceived crosshairs.

[Neil]

No. If you had a doubled cross-hair, there would be ghosting around the cross-hair. If the iZ3D drivers are working the way they should, you will only see one rendered cross-hair all the time. If you take a side by shot image, the cross-hairs will perfectly overlap each other.

Regards,
Neil

[Dyssident]

Edit: Neil I don't believe that is true. Unless anaglyph mode is somehow radically different than IZ3D mode. We'll have to get some screenshots to get to the bottom of this.

Wait! What? The crosshair is most certainly doubled. The drivers may not actually render the crosshair twice but the user certainly sees Two of them. It doesn't matter what mode the drivers are in. Dominant eye Left/Right whatever. It simply allows you to aim with your dominant eye. There are still Two perceived crosshairs.

Yes it is doubled. By doubled I mean that the crosshair is displayed for both eyes: if you focus far away each eye sees its crosshair in a different spot so it "doubles" and you see two of them. The greater the separation the greater the distance between the crosshairs (and more noticeable it is).

It's as if you held your finger directly in front of your right eye about a foot away. Both eyes can see your finger and if you focus on it you only see one finger. But if you focus far away you'll see two fingers. The finger you see to the left is in line with your right eye. This is exactly how the crosshair is. The stable crosshair is the accurate one. (Right eye by default, which is the leftside crosshair)

[Dyssident]

I have a side-by-side screenshot from Oblivion as an example:



The left half of the image is what your right eye sees, the right half is what your left eye sees. The left half (right eye) image is identical to what you would get in 2D and I'm aiming directly at the center of the door. Any shot would hit there.

Now in the right image (left eye) you can see that the crosshair is in the same position on the screen compared to the other side, but if you focus on the door you see how the crosshair is far to the right (and not accurate).

[LCountach]

Edit: Neil I don't believe that is true. Unless anaglyph mode is somehow radically different than IZ3D mode. We'll have to get some screenshots to get to the bottom of this.

Wait! What? The crosshair is most certainly doubled. The drivers may not actually render the crosshair twice but the user certainly sees Two of them. It doesn't matter what mode the drivers are in. Dominant eye Left/Right whatever. It simply allows you to aim with your dominant eye. There are still Two perceived crosshairs.

Yes it is doubled. By doubled I mean that the crosshair is displayed for both eyes: if you focus far away each eye sees its crosshair in a different spot so it "doubles" and you see two of them. The greater the separation the greater the distance between the crosshairs (and more noticeable it is).

It's as if you held your finger directly in front of your right eye about a foot away. Both eyes can see your finger and if you focus on it you only see one finger. But if you focus far away you'll see two fingers. The finger you see to the left is in line with your right eye. This is exactly how the crosshair is. The stable crosshair is the accurate one. (Right eye by default, which is the leftside crosshair)

Dyssident I totally hear you. I offered up a similar example talking about a finger on page1 of this thread. I simply see Neil as um... How to put this lightly... a Proponent of iZ3D and refuses to admit the flaws. Or perhaps he really can't see what we see. Either way its doubtful you will win him over. I am all for supporting iZ3D. I totally understand how it works and it is a cleaver solution but their crosshair method simply works terrible for me.

Neil please don't take offense. Its just how I see it.

[Neil]

Dyssident I totally hear you. I offered up a similar example talking about a finger on page1 of this thread. I simply see Neil as um... How to put this lightly... a Proponent of iZ3D and refuses to admit the flaws. Or perhaps he really can't see what we see. Either way its doubtful you will win him over. I am all for supporting iZ3D. I totally understand how it works and it is a cleaver solution but their crosshair method simply works terrible for me.

I think you are crossing certain boundaries here by suggesting that my opinion is based on being a "proponent" of a solution rather than what I visually see. I think that is very inappropriate an uncalled for.

You are at a great visual disadvantage by determining cross-hair effectiveness based on an outdated anaglyph experience. This does not give enough information to make an informed judgment. Maybe it's best to hear from other iZ3D owners to see what they think of the system as I've already contributed my opinion.

Regards,
Neil

[yuriythebest]

ahh I think I see where the confusion lies. Unfortunately after using shutterglasses for so long anaglyph has lil effect on me unless the image is very small otherwise the 3d is hard to notice. however I tried using my eDims and my verdict:

when you focus your eyeson the wall/door thingy behind the crosshair you see 2 crosshairs, when you focus on the crosshair you see one crosshair. this makes sence and is completly natural- try the same trick with your index finger and a real door.

[Dyssident]

Either way its doubtful you will win him over

I'm not trying to win anyone over, I'm just trying to learn how things work and get the facts straight. Also I don't want to give the impression that I don't like the IZ3D methods. I still think IZ3D is the quickest, easiest, and best 3D solution available. I don't think they should bother with a laser sight option. The main point of stereo 3D is to enhance realism and the laser sight is certainly not realistic for most games.

when you focus your eyeson the wall/door thingy behind the crosshair you see 2 crosshairs, when you focus on the crosshair you see one crosshair. this makes sence and is completly natural- try the same trick with your index finger and a real door.

...exactly.

[LukePC1]

It could be compared to a real Bow + Arrows a little. I was once told to make a "circle" with my hands and to look through it to a certain point.

Now put the "circle" closer your face, but keep focused on the spot far away. Continue, until the circle tuches your head. Which eye is now the one which is free? That is the dominant eye. It should be used to aim with a Bow or these crosshairs.
I'm not shure, how well it works, but it should become better after some training - and if you choose the right eye to see the correct crosshair.
I think IZ3D has an option to swap the 'shifting direction'. Maybe this helps

[yuriythebest]

wow I discovered my dominant eye. never knew I had one. cool....

[Dyssident]

I think IZ3D has an option to swap the 'shifting direction'. Maybe this helps

Yeah it's earlier in the thread.


About the dominant eye issue: perhaps some folks are so used to leading with their dominant eye that their brain ignores the second crosshair altogether. Sort of like the ghosting with my shutterglasses: the first time I tried them the ghosting was terrible but after a little while it went away. Now when I use them I don't even notice the ghosting at all, as if my brain ignores it entirely. If I look through a single eye I can still clearly see the ghosting though. Interesting stuff.

Offtopic: I'm one of the unfortunate people who are right-handed but very left-eye-dominant . In real life this makes aiming weapons VERY problematic.

[LukePC1]

If you're left eye dominant, make shure the driver is setup correctly. I think most people are right handed and have the right eye as a dominant one.

I'm happy, that you could understand my explanations. I was afraid it wasn't... good or detailed enough

[Dyssident]

I just had a thought...

If you play with "pop out" 3D only and no depth, the crosshair would appear as one piece no matter how far away you look. Distant objects would have virtually no separation and appear at screen depth. Since the crosshair is at screen depth to begin with, it wouldn't appear "doubled" no matter what SeparationMode you choose.

So it seems the discussion on the splitting of screen-depth crosshairs only applies when using depth 3D.

I hope someone comes to correct anything wrong I've said

[LCountach]

I just had a thought...

If you play with "pop out" 3D only and no depth, the crosshair would appear as one piece no matter how far away you look. Distant objects would have virtually no separation and appear at screen depth. Since the crosshair is at screen depth to begin with, it wouldn't appear "doubled" no matter what SeparationMode you choose.

So it seems the discussion on the splitting of screen-depth crosshairs only applies when using depth 3D.

I hope someone comes to correct anything wrong I've said

I am not saying your wrong but Pop Out is very hard to achieve. The brain has trouble focusing between Virtual Reality and True Reality(Monitor's edge Ect.) Also I think there would still be things beyond screen depth as well. I have never heard of only Pop Out Effects. Would Be Very Cool though!

I have images coming. stay tuned...

[Dyssident]

I have never heard of only Pop Out Effects

Neil covered it in the awesome MTBS Stereoscopic 3D Settings Guide...worth reading/watching
http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/newsletter.cgi?news_id=44

[Nobsi]

Thanks to the explanation giving here I actually discovered that my left eye is my leading one. Also I play with strong separation without pop out effects to give the virtual world the "real size". Actually with the right settings the felt size of the objects corresponds to the real thing, no miniature doll house effect. Thus the separation of object far away is exactly my eye distance (about 6 to 7cm).

The cross hair is actually rendered only once (at screen depth) by the iZ3D driver, but as described here it "doubles" when I look to an object in the distance. But I never realized that I tend to aim to the right one whereas my driver setting has placed the left one over the target. That is why I had to close the left eye to be able to aim quickly - to ged rid of the cross hair in my leading eye!

So with the changed setting my aiming is much better now. But I still very heavily notice the "virtual" second cross hair and get sowewhat irritated. For me the 3D cross hair found in the nvidia driver would still be the better solution.

[LCountach]

I have never heard of only Pop Out Effects

Neil covered it in the awesome MTBS Stereoscopic 3D Settings Guide...worth reading/watching
http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/newsletter.cgi?news_id=44

Pop Out only is ok. It looks from the video the effect must be pretty weak. The separation was not very strong. Probably for the reasons I stated above. I believe the ideal config is both Pop and Depth.

[LCountach]

I think you are crossing certain boundaries here by suggesting that my opinion is based on being a "proponent" of a solution rather than what I visually see. I think that is very inappropriate an uncalled for.

You are at a great visual disadvantage by determining cross-hair effectiveness based on an outdated anaglyph experience. This does not give enough information to make an informed judgment. Maybe it's best to hear from other iZ3D owners to see what they think of the system as I've already contributed my opinion.

Regards,
Neil

Sorry Neil. From the way you kept insisting there is no doubling effect I assumed you must have an iZ3D. You do have one correct? How else could you insist it doesn't double.

Perhaps I am at a disadvantage in Anaglyph. However the disadvantage is only color based. The mechanics of displaying a stereoscopic image are still the same. However just for the heck of it I included shots of a game with a White crosshair. That way it will show clearly in both the Red and Blue eyes. Oh yea I almost forgot. Us non iZ3D owners can still get perfect 3D images. 1.08 includes an HMD mode.
EDIT: When you view a shot from HMD mode as a JPS/Straightened Eyes it looks just as good as any other.

Neil I truly am not trying to cross lines or insult you. I simply state the truth as I see it. It just may not be how you see it.
I am sorry if I insulted you however I can't promise it won't happen again. Like I said. I am a straight shooter.

Dyssident I am not trying to knock iZ3D. In fact I will be a hardcore supporter if Shutter Glasses support works. I just can't accept being told something works perfectly when I can clearly see it does not. That Simple. Working crosshair or not I will still be buying for Shutter Glasses support. I can't wait!

The following shoots are focusing on the couch as the target. Now everyone can make their own conclusions as to weather the crosshair is doubled or works well for them selves. I included both Anaglyph and Side-By-Side shots. Those who are capable of viewing JPS files can save the JPEG and change the extention to JPS.



This is the DEFAULT installed mode also known as SeparationMode Value="2" "Camera shifted only in Right eyes". You must aim with the Left side crosshair.
I can't use this one. Yes I can see it but for me it hurts to focus on it.




This is SeparationMode Value="1" "Camera shifted only in left eyes". You must aim with the Right side crosshair.
This is the mode I need to use. It is still annoying because I am very trained to shoot center screen. It hurts less then the default though.




This is SeparationMode Value="0" "Camera shifted in both eyes". You must aim between the two crosshairs. Pretty much all other drivers use this mode.
It can be difficult to be accurate however your shots will be hitting Center Screen.

[Neil]

LCountach, I also own a Zalman - it's running Fear Combat as we speak.

Here's a better test to help demonstrate your point. Can you run Fear Combat (it's free), choose your settings, and get screen-caps of your shooting your gun?

Do the same test you are doing here, but I want to see bullets in action and where they are landing relative to the cross-hair. It will give your images a reference point.

When running Fear Combat, make sure shadows are turned off.

Regards,
Neil

[Dyssident]

Edit: Actually they look parallel, nevermind being mixed up

LCountach: I think you mixed up the first two side by side images.

The anaglyph and mode 0 images look correct. The first side by side image looks like mode 1 (should be mode 2) and your second side by side image looks to be mode 2 (and it should be mode 1).

[Sabre2552]

Hmm... I haven't noticed any inaccuracies with the crosshair, and I use the iZ3D drivers. For me it works well if I put the separation around 300%, and convergence very very low (around -0.200, I think). I think the low separation and high convergence are the culprit for your crosshair problem, as my games work well. What results are you trying to get from your separation so low but your convergence high? I enjoy the S3D experience I get with my settings, I'm not sure if that would be a universal agreement however.

[LCountach]

LCountach: I think you mixed up the first two side by side images.

The anaglyph and mode 0 images look correct. The first side by side image looks like mode 1 (should be mode 2) and your second side by side image looks to be mode 2 (and it should be mode 1).

I thought so too. I doubble checked before I posted. That IS what the drivers do in the various modes. Cross your eyes for the Side-By-Side don't use straightened eyes method. For Mode 2 Default the left crosshair is indeed the aiming one for both if viewed cross eyed.

LCountach, I also own a Zalman - it's running Fear Combat as we speak.

Here's a better test to help demonstrate your point. Can you run Fear Combat (it's free), choose your settings, and get screen-caps of your shooting your gun?

Do the same test you are doing here, but I want to see bullets in action and where they are landing relative to the cross-hair. It will give your images a reference point.

When running Fear Combat, make sure shadows are turned off.

Regards,
Neil

Neil shooting my gun and bullets in action won't represent my point any better. My only problem was you say the crosshair is NOT doubled and side shifted. I say it IS doubled and side shifted. Whether it is accurate or not was not in question. It is accurate just disorientating . I think your making me jump through hoops for fun but I will humor you...
Edit: Zalman? Are you able to use the iZ3D drivers? If not why do you insist they don't double and shift sideways?

[Neil]

Neil shooting my gun and bullets in action won't represent my point any better. My only problem was you say the crosshair is NOT doubled and side shifted. I say it IS doubled and side shifted. Whether it is accurate or not was not in question. It is accurate just disorientating . I think your making me jump through hoops for fun but I will humor you...
Edit: Zalman? Are you able to use the iZ3D drivers? If not why do you insist they don't double and shift sideways?

First, when I say doubled, I mean seeing two different cross-hairs in two different positions on the screen. For example, the NVIDIA cross-hair is doubled. In high convergence or pop-out situations, the lasersight will split in two, and your dominant eye will choose which lasersight is the correct one to aim with. The Zalman does not work with the iZ3D drivers at this time.

With the iZ3D solution, I only see one cross-hair no matter what. I'm sorry, I keep looking at your pictures, and I'm only seeing one cross-hair. I'm not trying to be difficult.

The reason I'm asking you to do the Fear thing is because when there are bullets flying on the screen and hitting their mark, readers will know right away if the cross-hair system is disorientating or not.

Regards,
Neil

[Dyssident]

That IS what the drivers do in the various modes. Cross your eyes for the Side-By-Side don't use straightened eyes method. For Mode 2 Default the left crosshair is indeed the aiming one for both if view cross eyed.

On closer inspection the images look to be set up as parallel (straighted eyes). The left image is supposed to be the right eye but it looks to be the left eye (and vice versa for the right image). I confirmed this by reversing my shutterglasses. Did you rename the jps files to jpg?


I think some screenshots from people that don't see 2 crosshairs would help get to the bottom of this


Edit: Also, in each of LCountach's 6 screenshots I see 2 crosshairs when viewed in 3D (and focusing on the couch or things in the background)

[LCountach]

First, when I say doubled, I mean seeing two different cross-hairs in two different positions on the screen. For example, the NVIDIA cross-hair is doubled. In high convergence or pop-out situations, the lasersight will split in two, and your dominant eye will choose which lasersight is the correct one to aim with. The Zalman does not work with the iZ3D drivers at this time.

With the iZ3D solution, I only see one cross-hair no matter what. I'm sorry, I keep looking at your pictures, and I'm only seeing one cross-hair. I'm not trying to be difficult.

The reason I'm asking you to do the Fear thing is because when there are bullets flying on the screen and hitting their mark, readers will know right away if the cross-hair system is disorientating or not.

Regards,
Neil

Ahh even from my already posted pictures you can't see 2 crosshairs? I think your dominant is so strong you can't actually see the other crosshair. No amount of extra images will ever help that. We simply see differently. That is why some users are agreeing with me and some with you. When it comes to iZ3D gaming you got lucky. I am not so fortunate. I believe the Anaglyph and Side-By-Side pictures I already are more than enough for others to see how the iZ3D drivers work. I will however show a couple more of shooting action.
EDIT: Fear is requiring a validation code. I don't feel like bothering with it anymore tonight. Good night.

[LCountach]

On closer inspection the images look to be set up as parallel (straighted eyes). The left image is supposed to be the right eye but it looks to be the left eye (and vice versa for the right image). I confirmed this by reversing my shutterglasses. Did you rename the jps files to jpg?

What I posted is exactly what the driver spits out in each mode. Yes I believe you are correct. They are flipped. Crossed eyes is Not the way to view them. Straighted Eyes IS the way to view the images posted. It makes sense too. The left image is for you left eye and the right image is for your right eye. That is what a Dual signal HMD would want. That would make the crosshairs flipped between Anaglyph and HMD. Strange!

[Neil]

What you are saying about my right eye being much more dominant over my left is a real possibility. No matter how hard I try, focusing on the couch, etc - I only see one cross-hair.

Weird!

I wonder, could it have anything to do with the level of separation? For example, what if the separation is too high for my brain to form a single image? Something like that?

I'm stumped.

Regards,
Neil

[LCountach]

Fear is requiring a validation code. I don't feel like bothering with it anymore tonight. Good night.

[Dyssident]

I wonder, could it have anything to do with the level of separation? For example, what if the separation is too high for my brain to form a single image? Something like that?

Perhaps it's a number of things...

The separation and screen size are definitely related to it all. If you had a massive projection screen it would only take a tiny bit of separation to get close to the interocular distance. This would result in the "two" crosshairs being so close you probably wouldn't notice it split at all. Whereas if you had a small 15-19" monitor you'd need a MUCH larger amount of separation to get close to interocular distance. This would make the splitting crosshair issue a lot more visible.

The point of convergence: it seems the further away the convergence point is, the less split the crosshair will appear. So if you play with depth only (with a near convergence point) (as I do and prefer), the split crosshair is way more noticeable.

Dominant eye: If you're heavily eye dominant and using the appropriate SeparationMode (mode 2 for right eye dominant, mode 1 for left eye dominant), your brain might entirely ignore the incorrect crosshair slightly to the side.


Maybe all of these factors combined add up to some people seeing 2 crosshairs and some seeing just 1

[Nobsi]

Looking at LCountach pictures cross eyed or with anaglyph glasses I also see the cross hair doubled, though one of them (depending on the mode) is perfectly over the position I will shoot to. But the second cross hair is clearly visible to me and by time very irritating, specialy in situations where the cross hair is not clearly visible due to the color/contrast condition of a certain scene. Than I may be shooting to the wrong cross hair, because the correcty positioned one is not as clearly visible as the doubled one.

Neil, if you look to the distance and than hold a finger before your nose while still focusing the distance, do you see two (translucent) fingers or only one (solid). I see two fingers and that is exactly the same what happens with the cross hair while looking at a distant object in game. If you see only one finger, your visual systems seems to work totally different than mine or that of LCountach.

Also I'm wondering about your comment about the nvidia laser sight. The nvidia cross hair is actually a 3D object which can be moved along the Z axis and if it works correcly it should place itselfs exactly on the surface of the object you are aiming to, much like a laser pointer does. Of couse there are two cross hairs rendered than (one for the left and one for the right eye, like all objects in the 3D space) with the same separation as the object you are aiming to. But in 3D you (or at least I and LCountach) than see only one cross hair at exactly the postion in X,Y,Z where my bullets will hit.

[LukePC1]

Also I'm wondering about your comment about the nvidia laser sight. The nvidia cross hair is actually a 3D object which can be moved along the Z axis and if it works correcly it should place itselfs exactly on the surface of the object you are aiming to, much like a laser pointer does. Of couse there are two cross hairs rendered than (one for the left and one for the right eye, like all objects in the 3D space) with the same separation as the object you are aiming to. But in 3D you (or at least I and LCountach) than see only one cross hair at exactly the postion in X,Y,Z where my bullets will hit.

That's only true, if the coordinates are realy correct. There are some games, which make problems with it. Sometimes it floats at the wrong position or above the 'background'. This happens at Counter Strike for me, if I have the wrong settings.
The next problem is, it disappears, if you look at the sky. Maybe it's just to far at the side or maybe the sky is only rendered completly wrong.

It seems a little, like you are describing the same observations. but explain very different...

I've got to admitt, that I could aim much better with the real Laser sight, which is a 3D object with seperation.

Maybe it's also dependent on settings. Neil mad this shot:

For me the crosshair is floating in front of the barrel. This might be ok, if you have the 'right' setting

What do you think?

[LawnDart]

That image is actually pretty horrible. Look at the gun and how much of it is missing in the right image. The separation is so huge on the gun making it pop out so far that it will give you a headache in a matter of minutes if not seconds. My guess is that if you adjust the stereo to where the gun is displaying in the correct place, other issues are going to surface (Such as the "laser sight" that IZ3D is doing). In other words, the separation is adjusted completely out of whack to get the laser sight to have some depth in the scene. That laser sight would be at glass (or close to glass) if the image was adjusted properly.

You can't do pop out with a gun in the first place due to the bottom of the image breaking glass (the edge). Add to it the fact that so much of the gun is missing (breaking glass) to the right on the right image. That is an unusable setting.

Oh... and the sight is floating in front too.

From what I'm understanding, pop out only works in special situations. None of the object in the left or right eye can break the edge of the glass. Look at the NVIDIA test app. The logo goes through a cycle where it comes out of screen. THAT is done correctly.

Anyway. This thread is a wealth of information. What a great group of people here.

The more I learn from this thread, the more I realize I made the right choice in the NVIDIA driver.

[Neil]

I agree that the image is poor. In fact, here is an excerpt from the actual game review:

While the interface and scenery renders perfectly, the gun and the scopes are all much too far apart. With the settings I want, the right eyed image of the gun can slide off the screen! I either only see the gun in one eye, or the separation is high enough that my brain tunes the second eye’s gun out of perspective. The game plays much better than I’m making it sound, but this anomaly does undermine the game’s otherwise successful stereoscopic 3D effectiveness.

As for NVIDIA's drivers effectiveness, I think I was tactful when I said that we are waiting for updated drivers from NVIDIA. You can't play Rainbow Six Vegas with the current Vista 32 drivers because S-3D does not work at all - at least not yet.

Regards,
Neil

[LawnDart]

I agree, you were tactful in putting it that way. Thanks for the quote.

My point was that in order to get the laser sight in the screen you have to adjust the convergence way out of whack. That isn't right. If you adjust the gun right the sight is at glass. If and when NVIDIA supports this game, my guess is that it will work properly. I like the way they have ratings for the games in the control panel. If there is an issue, they mention it. Nice feature. If the game is unplayable, they mention it.

I think you would agree that we all want this hobby to take off and go big time. Whacked out guns and eye strain are a complete showstopper for me. It will definately be a show stopper for John Q Public. No offense to any of us with the hobby comment. It's a really cool hobby!

I would like to see some IZ3D images of something like UT2004. I'm prepairing a couple of images from the nvidia driver as we speak. I wish I had more time to invest.

[LawnDart]

Oh man... Sorry for the newbie question. How do I upload images. LOL Sorry

[LukePC1]

1) I read today, that double posting might result in a DEATH verdict There is a edit button

2) Upload:
- go to the galery
- search for a @ symbol in the upper left corner.
- hover over it
- click on the upload link, which should appear then

@ toppic:
I just wanted to show some other Pics by IZ3D driver with crosshair. I think it's not the optimal solution, but at least it does NOT ghost... It can't ghost, because both eyes see it at the same pixels...

The Idea was to present something that fits a little better. I think you could aim relativly acurate with the floating crosshair, but it's still disorientating and might get worse with other environment.