Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by **Okta** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:40 am

I have been under the impression that a HMD would be a large detriment to most FPS twitch games. Maybe not, the larger FOV might be an advantage. Maybe even disabling the head tracking would be a good idea.

Post by **Parallaxis** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:06 am

Okta wrote:I have been under the impression that a HMD would be a large detriment to most FPS twitch games. Maybe not, the larger FOV might be an advantage. Maybe even disabling the head tracking would be a good idea.

Disabling the head tracking will make you sick to your stomach in a very short time....

Post by **zalo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:09 am

I doubt it. As long as you're in control of the screen, it should be fine. It will give you a head ache, and your eyes will be darting across your entire field of view (like sitting in the front row of a movie theater).

It will be more pleasant with head tracking, of course, but (as far as I know) lack of it won't give you motion sickness alone.

Post by **Parallaxis** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:14 am

zalo wrote:I doubt it. As long as you're in control of the screen, it should be fine. It will give you a head ache, and your eyes will be darting across your entire field of view (like sitting in the front row of a movie theater).

It will be more pleasant with head tracking, of course, but (as far as I know) lack of it won't give you motion sickness alone.

If you move your head while wearing the Rift and the tracking is off, you will get sick. So unless you can keep your head very still, you're in trouble.

But why would anybody use it without the head tracking, they would be much better off with a monitor.

Post by **TheHolyChicken** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:23 am

zalo wrote:I doubt it. As long as you're in control of the screen, it should be fine. It will give you a head ache, and your eyes will be darting across your entire field of view (like sitting in the front row of a movie theater).

It will be more pleasant with head tracking, of course, but (as far as I know) lack of it won't give you motion sickness alone.

A while ago I asked Palmer a question of whether or not you could have a "passenger" Rift spectating. i.e., you are playing the game on the Rift, and a buddy is also wearing a Rift and just watching your game. His reply was that it would "definitely make you sick".

If TF2 turns out to be too frenzied and fast for my tastes I can always just play it alone, solo, and rocket jump myself around some fun environments. That obviously would make it hard to show off my awesome Rift 'hat' though!

Post by **rmcclelland** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:39 am

Okta wrote:
rmcclelland wrote:Looks like Road To VR broke some big news! I wonder where the leak came from.

http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/03/18/team ... ality-4024

I can image this was the exciting announcement planned for GDC.

I would MUCH rather have TF2 support than Doom 3. Very exciting if true.
Can you explain why you would "MUCH" rather have TF2 on the Rft than BFG?

For me, I really don't like the claustrophobic environments of Doom 3. TF2 has more open environments and is easy to create new content for.

This may be why Oculus went away from the Doom 3 BFG demo and started using Epic Citadel etc.

Post by **zalo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:41 am

zalo wrote:I doubt it. As long as you're in control of the screen, it should be fine.

So if you can control it so it's still in the real world, and no external forces act on it in the virtual world, it should be just like gaming on an HMZ , but in the front row.

At least, that my hypothesis. I don't disagree with what Palmer said.

Post by **German** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:04 am

Parallaxis wrote:Disabling the head tracking will make you sick to your stomach in a very short time....

That depends on the person. I'm playing Crysis 2 on my DIY Rift with no tracking and a 360 controller just fine with no nausea after hours of play. I have no trouble adapting to the controller for view movement. The only time things feel a little off balance is when the game moves the camera for me like in the in-engine cutscenes at the beginning.

Parallaxis wrote: But why would anybody use it without the head tracking, they would be much better off with a monitor.

Because you can't get stereoscopic 3D with a monitor without glasses?

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:40 am

rmcclelland wrote:Looks like Road To VR broke some big news! I wonder where the leak came from.

http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/03/18/team ... ality-4024

I can image this was the exciting announcement planned for GDC.

I would MUCH rather have TF2 support than Doom 3. Very exciting if true.

It says "Error establishing a database connection" which isn't very exciting.
I assume they are just talking about Valve giving a talk on converting Team Fortress 2 to VR at GDC? If so, we already heard that, although we didn't know what the result was, or whether Valve would be releasing it. Was there any new information?

zalo wrote:
zalo wrote:I doubt it. As long as you're in control of the screen, it should be fine.
So if you can control it so it's still in the real world, and no external forces act on it in the virtual world, it should be just like gaming on an HMZ , but in the front row.

At least, that my hypothesis. I don't disagree with what Palmer said.

I think your hypothesis is wrong. The Rift screen is not in the real world, it's in a black void which completely blocks out the real world. The HMZ has a much lower FOV, and I don't know if it blocks out your view of the world. The FOV makes a difference since it changes whether it feels like the screen is moving or the whole world is moving. How motion sick it will make you depends on the person, and on how much you move your head around while playing.

Post by **Libertine** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:45 am

German wrote:Because you can't get stereoscopic 3D with a monitor without glasses?

..and the Rift has a nice screen field of view.

Post by **geekmaster** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:51 am

2EyeGuy wrote:... The FOV makes a difference since it changes whether it feels like the screen is moving or the whole world is moving. How motion sick it will make you depends on the person, and on how much you move your head around while playing.

That "nausea thing" is mostly a matter of perception, which is strongly biased by user expectation. When I played Descent while sitting close to a large projection screen, it gave a very immersive FoV. When I was "pretending" to be flying around corners and rotation, I did feel queasy. BUT (and this is a huge factor) when I "pretended" that I was stationary, and my controls were rotating the environment around me, the queasiness went away.

Think of being in a big box where your controls can rotate the box around you.

Of course, there was a strong tendency to forget to "pretend", especially when you were in a hostile situation in the game. Then all bets are off...

My experience is much like astronauts in the space station have described, where then get queasy when their perception of being at the end of a long corridor suddenly shifts so they perceive that the are at the top of a deep well, where their sudden shift in frame of reference combines with a fear of height causing a sudden desire to lose stomach contents (VERY not good in a weightless environment).

My experience was without 3D (the shutter glasses flickered too much and cut the resolution in half), but it was still extremely immersive if only because of my huge FoV (sitting 5-feet from an 11-foot diagonal projection screen). The Rift will have a similar FoV, and we should get great immersion even with a monoscopic FoV. Sadly, we still have to (partially) render and pre-warp two images with the 7-inch non-overlapped displays, so mono will not save us much in rendering time.

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:52 am

Libertine wrote:
German wrote:Because you can't get stereoscopic 3D with a monitor without glasses?
..and the Rift has a nice screen field of view.

And zero ghosting.

Post by **FR3D** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:28 am

OOOOOkaaay !

i will have to install Team Fortress 2 now. I never played it, but i think it came with the orange box ...

very goor news !

if valve really supports the rift - it must be great !

FR3D

Post by **LordJuanlo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:38 am

FR3D wrote:i will have to install Team Fortress 2 now. I never played it, but i think it came with the orange box ...

They changed the game to free to play, anyone can download it from Steam and play it without spending a dime!

Post by **MichaelH** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:52 pm

Is it sad that I am more excited by the possible prospect of a rift hat for TF2? Oh, God, what have I become?

I really worry that TF2 is far too a twitch game, relying on fast turning constantly.

Edit: Now that I think about it, you could also recoup a good part of the cost of the devkit by selling the hat later.

Post by **jis** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:14 pm

:deleted, didn't check the new TF2 thread before answering:

Post by **zalo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:43 pm

Well, update, but it's nothing we didn't know

... We scooped Oculus!

Post by **Dycus** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:43 pm

Team Fortress 2!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/152 ... sts/431024

I made the little 3D-printed Rift the Heavy has on his head.

Post by **Modab** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:48 pm

You knocked it out of the partk!

Dycus wrote:Team Fortress 2!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/152 ... sts/431024

I made the little 3D-printed Rift the Heavy has on his head.

Post by **ChrisJD** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:49 pm

Dycus wrote:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/152 ... sts/431024

We apologize in advance for the oncoming torrent of Oculus news

Don't apologise for providing News, apologise for being a tease and not providing it all right now! :p

Post by **msfreemind** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:53 pm

Post by **defactoman** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:54 pm

Dycus wrote:Team Fortress 2!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/152 ... sts/431024

I made the little 3D-printed Rift the Heavy has on his head.

The hat look great lol, you should print a bunch of these mini hats and sell them on the oculus store so i can put them on some of my action figures

Post by **unsilentwill** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:55 pm

We apologize in advance for the oncoming torrent of Oculus news.

That's okay.

Post by **topas** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:10 pm

We apologize in advance for the oncoming torrent of Oculus news.

I do want the torrent of news right now in to the face

Post by **cmfockler** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:17 pm

I get dizzy just watching TF2 gameplay on youtube. Not sure I can handle that in VR. Would much rather explore the Epic Citadel.

Post by **LordJuanlo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:29 pm

topas wrote:I do want the torrent of news right now in to the face

Me too, but what I really want is my freaking Rift right now!!!

Post by **MikeFesta** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:42 pm

msfreemind wrote:

The first time I saw this photo I just saw Palmer's expression, but now I noticed his power glove t-shirt, it's so bad. I love it.

Post by **Kazioo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:59 pm

More impressions (in comments) from PCGamesN writer:

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1a ... ulus_rift/

I spent an hour with the Oculus and it was totally fine. No lingering strain or discomfort, no motion sickness. By comparison, playing Battlefield Bad Company 2 with shutter glasses would usually leave me feeling ill and a bit disoriented.

Post by **Okta** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:27 pm

Its cool that is has independent gun tracking but it pushes your view once it hits the edge...yuck.

Otherwise... an utterly baffling decision. A twitch shooter for VR. I mean....WTF? Out of all the valve titles this was decided upon?

Post by **Scog** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:30 pm

This experiment is just as much about what doesn't work as what does. It's not a showcase, it's an experimental platform.

Post by **s0uL** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:52 pm

Okta wrote:Its cool that is has independent gun tracking but it pushes your view once it hits the edge...yuck.

Otherwise... an utterly baffling decision. A twitch shooter for VR. I mean....WTF? Out of all the valve titles this was decided upon?

They chose it because it's free to play and still has a dedicated team/online community.

Post by **lossofmercy** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:00 pm

Does it really have independent gun tracking? I thought it used the same controls as Portal 2.

Post by **ChrisJD** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 pm

Okta wrote:Its cool that is has independent gun tracking but it pushes your view once it hits the edge...yuck.

Otherwise... an utterly baffling decision. A twitch shooter for VR. I mean....WTF? Out of all the valve titles this was decided upon?

The view move on screen edge sounds like a terrible idea to me, although I haven't tried it yet so maybe it's not as bad as I think it will be. However, one of the articles does say there will be a number of different control schemes and options available to try. That one is just the default. I'd also agree that TF2 is too fast paced to make a great title to showcase VR.

Why TF2? It's basically Valves experimental test platform. Anything that goes to the public that's a bit out there seems to go into TF2 first.

Post by **Owen** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:21 pm

Its probably their most profitable game by far right now. Developing more content for it is a very natural decision.

Post by **MrGreen** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:45 pm

s0uL wrote:
Okta wrote:Its cool that is has independent gun tracking but it pushes your view once it hits the edge...yuck.

Otherwise... an utterly baffling decision. A twitch shooter for VR. I mean....WTF? Out of all the valve titles this was decided upon?
They chose it because it's free to play and still has a dedicated team/online community.

Good point.

Hopefully they'll add Portal 2 support down the road. It would be a much, much better fit for the Rift in my opinion.

Post by **cerulianbaloo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:48 pm

MrGreen wrote:
s0uL wrote:
Okta wrote:Its cool that is has independent gun tracking but it pushes your view once it hits the edge...yuck.

Otherwise... an utterly baffling decision. A twitch shooter for VR. I mean....WTF? Out of all the valve titles this was decided upon?
They chose it because it's free to play and still has a dedicated team/online community.
Good point.

Hopefully they'll add Portal 2 support down the road. It would be a much, much better fit for the Rift in my opinion.

Just finished Portal 2 the other day (I know, took me long enough). One of Valve's best games, and as I played through it fantasizing Rift support it only enhanced the experience. There are so many clever layouts in the environments that would really highlight depth to a great degree. The rows upon rows of mechanical arms or lights that can be seen hanging from the sides of structures going down into a seemingly bottomless chasm, and of course all the insane jumps you take part it.

I'd say out of all of Valve's portfolio Portal 2 is definitely the best fit for a VR port. Plenty of time to take in your surroundings and just breathe the world

Post by **Mystify** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:05 pm

Portal/Portal 2 has some very nice properties for a rift game... interspersed with sessions of throwing you through the air in a manner that seems highly problematic.

Post by **Leahy** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:26 am

Mystify wrote:Portal/Portal 2 has some very nice properties for a rift game... interspersed with sessions of throwing you through the air in a manner that seems highly problematic.

They are just waiting for the Oculus store to put up the rift barf bag attachment

Post by **maboo63** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:39 am

i will personally kiss the person who makes portal 2 available for the rift!

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:14 am

maboo63 wrote:i will personally kiss the person who makes portal 2 available for the rift!

That would be cybereality if you don't mind it being glitchy and not having independent weapon control.