RifTUP! FullHD Oculus DK1 upgrade kit

[remosito]

Decided that the HDMI->MIPI board will be sold as a product to support the DIY community. Not ready to launch it yet. I want to do one more rev of the board to make it smaller, consume less power and fix the problems I have found with the first revision. Will start another thread in the next day or two so the community can discuss any desired features before I finalize the next rev.

This is fantastic news!

Any chance for a LS059 version (i.e. different connector).

A 5.9" panel seems to me so much more useful. Especially for people just looking for a pretty straightforward Rift upgrade. Some User reports of the HD Rift prototype mentioned being able to see the borders. And that is with a 5.6" panel. So the 5.0" LS050 would just increase that problem. and depending on what kind of delivery schedule Sixense has planned for their STEM kickstarter. Full HD Rift with positional tracking might be possible very easily via upgradeing by years end. Even if Oculus does not release a Devkit V2 by then.

And even dual panel foisi/hannibalj2 style HMDs might require less design changes to minimize FoV loss when switching away from 7" to smaller panels.

Though a dual 5.0 HMD designed from the ground up for high FoV might be very intriguing from a size and weight aspect.

[LaserEdge]

I'm making assumptions and could be wrong about some of it as I never heard about Deep Color HDMI until earlier today. To correct a mistake I made earlier, Deep Color was introduced in HDMI spec 1.3 and not 1.4a. Also, you don't need two HDMI cables for it. Apparently, the PS3 supports it. Pulled from the web:

"HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 and increased the single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbit/s). It optionally supports Deep Color, with 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit xvYCC, sRGB, or YCbCr, compared to 24-bit sRGB or YCbCr in previous HDMI versions. "


The way I see it, you have a left frame and a right frame rendered at 24-bit into their own respective frame buffers. Then, each is copied to a 3rd frame buffer at the same resolution but 48-bit color depth (assuming the GPU supports this - need to look into this). The way you would do that is to prefix all the subpixel (RGB) data bits from one frame with 8 '0s' and postfix subpixel data bits from the other frame with 8 '0s' and then OR them together.

Now two 24-bit frames are packed as one 48-bit frame at the proper display resolution. If you use an HDMI receiver that can output 48-bit RGB (such as the ADV7619 I posted earlier) "unpacking" them should be as simple as routing the upper and lower 8 bits per subpixel to the appropriate RGB->LVDS/MIPI chip and driving them both with the same clock and sync lines from the HDMI->RGB chip. This works because the received frame is at the native resolution of the LCD panels. No data buffering necessary, and no additional latency.

I am getting what your saying. The frames are combined in software on the computer before going to the display. It would be interesting to see how the graphics card responds with an EDID coded with 48-bit color depth support. Assuming that works then what you have in mind should work assuming a cost effective and power effective 48-bit HDMI to parallel RGB receiver can be found.

[LaserEdge]

This is fantastic news!

Any chance for a LS059 version (i.e. different connector).

A 5.9" panel seems to me so much more useful. Especially for people just looking for a pretty straightforward Rift upgrade. Some User reports of the HD Rift prototype mentioned being able to see the borders. And that is with a 5.6" panel. So the 5.0" LS050 would just increase that problem. and depending on what kind of delivery schedule Sixense has planned for their STEM kickstarter. Full HD Rift with positional tracking might be possible very easily via upgradeing by years end. Even if Oculus does not release a Devkit V2 by then.

And even dual panel foisi/hannibalj2 style HMDs might require less design changes to minimize FoV loss when switching away from 7" to smaller panels.

Though a dual 5.0 HMD designed from the ground up for high FoV might be very intriguing from a size and weight aspect.

My plan is to do a poll in the thread I will create about the board. The community will decide the order of the board development. The most popular first and the least popular last. Of course the LS050 board will be available first. I am guessing the LS059 will come out on top. Eventually a board will be available for each panel.

That aside for Rift like HMDs I would go with the 5.9" hands down assuming the software issues are addressed.

[wileythecoyote]

Really nice work laseredge!
I really respect your reverse-engineering skills.
Hopefully everybody keeps their cool and refrain from busting your balls to get this out to the public
Do you have any idea of the price range it is going to be in?
I would gladly pre-order to help cover the initial expences, and probably so would many others.

[yunti]

My plan is to do a poll in the thread I will create about the board. The community will decide the order of the board development. The most popular first and the least popular last. Of course the LS050 board will be available first. I am guessing the LS059 will come out on top. Eventually a board will be available for each panel.

That aside for Rift like HMDs I would go with the 5.9" hands down assuming the software issues are addressed.

Superb news well done Laseredge. Thanks for all your efforts with this. Would love to order a board if you are happy to sell.

Would also be interested to know more about the process of how you put it together too - so I can be less lazy in the future and not have to rely on other people doing the heavy lifting.

Thanks again,

[Peva3]

LaserEdge, you said there were some bugs with the current board at the moment, would you care to elaborate a bit? Any sort of worklog would be really helpful to the community

Edit: Also, have you thought about trying to contact someone like SparkFun? This is totally something up their alley; allowing DIY people to use full HD displays with their projects. Just an idea.

[jquantum]

LaserEdge, you said there were some bugs with the current board at the moment, would you care to elaborate a bit? Any sort of worklog would be really helpful to the community

To butcher LaserEdge's post a bit...

*snip* I didn't think the panel would want the power up of AVDD- and AVDD+ 1ms after IOVDD. The enables for the switching regulators had to be separated. *snip* Also want to experiment with settings in firmware to see if can lower active power consumption.
*snip*

Should be the important bits I think. From what I gather the bug in the board was that the 1ms delay required after initiating the IOVDD. This is basically fixed already though, as it sounds like it was required for the initiating sequence for the panel - also assuming it was a firmware thing.

Maybe a design flaw though was the part about the regulators.

[virror]

Any idea of a price for the converter board and what are the added latency for the conversion?
Now we only need some good lenses and a 3d printed replacement casing to get a nice HD rift : )

Edit: Btw, anyone found a supplier for the LS059T1SX01 panel?

[Peva3]

Any idea of a price for the converter board?
Now we only need some good lenses and a 3d printed replacement casing to get a nice HD rift : )

We could still conceivably go with a 7" full HD display and not have to do anything with the casing (going back to the original drop-in idea) or even sticking with a 5.6" and just figure out a way to mount it inside the existing case.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+R ... 2/1#s46006

The LCD is only held down by some clips and double sided tape. Potentially you could make a 3d printed adapter plate that fits the 7" LCD footprint, but has a holder in the middle for the 5.6" display. Also it could be made pretty thin so the screen wouldn't be that much closer to your eyes.

[virror]

Of course, but it would be a lot cooler with a custom case to make it a bit smaller and lighter : p

[Vimax]

Anyone knows anything about the LS059 response time?

Because I find the reported LS050 with 35ms (granted, tr+td) not really inspiring.

[Peva3]

Of course, but it would be a lot cooler with a custom case to make it a bit smaller and lighter : p

Very true

I'm surprised no one has made a 3d scan of the oculus rift yet, would make this a lot easier.

[virror]

Anyone knows anything about the LS059 response time?

Because I find the reported LS050 with 35ms (granted, tr+td) not really inspiring.

Yes, im also interested in what the total latency difference would be with this converter + screen.

[remosito]

Any idea of a price for the converter board and what are the added latency for the conversion?
Now we only need some good lenses and a 3d printed replacement casing to get a nice HD rift : )

Edit: Btw, anyone found a supplier for the LS059T1SX01 panel?

http://www.wayengineer.com/index.php?ma ... ts_id=5304

85$

[Polaris]

I read this thread for a long time and i don't know much about this stuff. But i found a link to a FHD 7" pannel.

http://www.panelook.com/TX18D200VM0EAA_ ... 19990.html

Maybe this can be ordered as a replacment.

Sry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker or writer XD

[Inscothen]

Nice find Polaris. KOE is a part of JDI I believe. I wonder if that is the panel in the Nexus 7(2013) and maybe that model number I've read about(LT070ME05000) is actually just ASUS's replacement LCD part number. It would be interesting if it is the actual panel because the specs say it's only 1 channel 8-bit LVDS.

PDF: https://www.glynshop.com/erp/owweb/Date ... 20GLYN.pdf

[remosito]

I read this thread for a long time and i don't know much about this stuff. But i found a link to a FHD 7" pannel.

http://www.panelook.com/TX18D200VM0EAA_ ... 19990.html

Maybe this can be ordered as a replacment.

Sry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker or writer XD

The trick is to find a link to a place that has them. panelook has panels sometimes months before you can find them anywhere to buy...

[Polaris]

Okay, maybe it gets avaible in the near future. It says mass production Q4 2013.

But like I said, I have know knowledge about this stuff. I'm a chemist and not an engineer Just stumbled over this site.

[Raptor5150]

I read this thread for a long time and i don't know much about this stuff. But i found a link to a FHD 7" pannel.

http://www.panelook.com/TX18D200VM0EAA_ ... 19990.html

Maybe this can be ordered as a replacment.

Sry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker or writer XD

Awesome find!! Pretty sure thats the Nexus 7 (2013) display lot of it checks out.. IPS, 1080P 7 inches.. LVDS is a nice confirm..

I wonder how that would plug and play into the rift especially being single channel. Hopefully in Q4 someone can get one and see how well it transplants.

[Peva3]

I read this thread for a long time and i don't know much about this stuff. But i found a link to a FHD 7" pannel.

http://www.panelook.com/TX18D200VM0EAA_ ... 19990.html

Maybe this can be ordered as a replacment.

Sry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker or writer XD

Awesome find!! Pretty sure thats the Nexus 7 (2013) display lot of it checks out.. IPS, 1080P 7 inches.. LVDS is a nice confirm..

I wonder how that would plug and play into the rift especially being single channel. Hopefully in Q4 someone can get one and see how well it transplants.

The only issue that comes to mind with it would be the rift controller board. Do we even know if it will support 1080p? Most of the controller boards I've seen have a fixed maximum rez they will support. And the rift HD prototype is a 5.6" MIPI so the controller for it has most likely been reworked.

[Polaris]

you could use the hx8861 controller instead of the hx8851 in the rift

http://www.himax.com.tw/en/product/pd111.asp

i hope this is the stuff needed. just read it does FHD

[Peva3]

you could use the hx8861 controller instead of the hx8851 in the rift

http://www.himax.com.tw/en/product/pd111.asp

i hope this is the stuff needed. just read it does FHD

But that wouldn't carry over the Rift EDID. Not a big deal, but that would stop it from being a true "drop-in" replacement.

I'm personally not that bothered about doing that though, I'm willing to make my own HMD rather than totally gut my Rift.

[remosito]

a quick question to come back to a topic we were like 3 pages back.

have you tried to drive the panel at more than 60hz?
Could we even input more than 60hz?
Afaik you'd need hdmi 1.3 for that, no?

[Flim]

This might be elementary, but will the board power the Rift tracker like in the Dev kit?


Has anyone cadded up the dev kit mounting yet?... before I re-invent the wheel!

[MSat]

I read this thread for a long time and i don't know much about this stuff. But i found a link to a FHD 7" pannel.

http://www.panelook.com/TX18D200VM0EAA_ ... 19990.html

Maybe this can be ordered as a replacment.

Sry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker or writer XD

Hmmm... 1 channel LVDS..

Anyone have a proper datasheet for the RealTek chip in the Rift's control box?

[MSat]

I am getting what your saying. The frames are combined in software on the computer before going to the display. It would be interesting to see how the graphics card responds with an EDID coded with 48-bit color depth support. Assuming that works then what you have in mind should work assuming a cost effective and power effective 48-bit HDMI to parallel RGB receiver can be found.

I can't answer any of those things, and by no means am I even saying it's a good idea. Just possibly another option.

[LaserEdge]

LaserEdge, you said there were some bugs with the current board at the moment, would you care to elaborate a bit? Any sort of worklog would be really helpful to the community

Edit: Also, have you thought about trying to contact someone like SparkFun? This is totally something up their alley; allowing DIY people to use full HD displays with their projects. Just an idea.

Hi Peva,

So far just one bug. Had to do with making shortcuts in the power management logic. I was assuming that all the regulators could power up together. That is not the case. Ideally you want to power them up one at a time to not spike the amp draw during power up.

[Fredz]

If no hardware solution can be found for display synchronization it may be a good idea to have a look at something like Softgenlock or WinSGL. I worked a bit with SoftGenLock in the past for DDC shutter glasses support on NVIDIA GPUs, but it's also able to do software genlocking by manipulating GPU registers to slow down pixel clocks by inserting invisible lines at Vsync. It required a real time Linux kernel but there may be other possibilities.

[virror]

$85 is a decent price for the display, but the best thing was the cheap shipping, only $7 to Sweden : )

Anyone have any clue what lenses would be a good fit for this display cause i guess the default ones would not work very good?

[Peva3]

LaserEdge, you said there were some bugs with the current board at the moment, would you care to elaborate a bit? Any sort of worklog would be really helpful to the community

Edit: Also, have you thought about trying to contact someone like SparkFun? This is totally something up their alley; allowing DIY people to use full HD displays with their projects. Just an idea.

Hi Peva,

So far just one bug. Had to do with making shortcuts in the power management logic. I was assuming that all the regulators could power up together. That is not the case. Ideally you want to power them up one at a time to not spike the amp draw during power up.

Awesome, what changes/features are you working on for the board before you would feel comfortable releasing it? Do you have any sort of roadmap at this point?

[LuckyDog]

Any idea of a price for the converter board and what are the added latency for the conversion?
Now we only need some good lenses and a 3d printed replacement casing to get a nice HD rift : )

Edit: Btw, anyone found a supplier for the LS059T1SX01 panel?

http://www.wayengineer.com/index.php?ma ... ts_id=5304

85$

Less than 1000 left. We better try to make a decision before there won't be any more for a while.

[jquantum]

Any idea of a price for the converter board and what are the added latency for the conversion?
Now we only need some good lenses and a 3d printed replacement casing to get a nice HD rift : )

Edit: Btw, anyone found a supplier for the LS059T1SX01 panel?

http://www.wayengineer.com/index.php?ma ... ts_id=5304

85$

Less than 1000 left. We better try to make a decision before there won't be any more for a while.

Lol wouldn't it suck if we all decided on this one and it was OOS everywhere. I'm personally down for anything as long as shipping to where I can get it is cheap and fast

[remosito]

http://www.wayengineer.com/index.php?ma ... ts_id=5304

85$

Less than 1000 left. We better try to make a decision before there won't be any more for a while.

No need to panic quite yet. Yesterday they had 999 now 997... they aren't going THAT fast...

[Vimax]

Anyone can find any tech info on that new crazy QHD 5.5 inch screen LG just launched a few days ago?

That would be the perfect answer for a single screen replacement.

[zacherynuk]

Hey, could somebody with a Nesus 7.2 and a decent spec PC AND importantly very good wifi please checkout Splashtop Streamer

PC side: http://www.splashtop.com/home
Android side: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ote.pad.v2

Just create an account logon to the account both ends and connect... It works great with my SamsungS3 - order of magnitude better than any similar thing I have tried - it's like citrix HDX quality wise...

Be interesting to hear feedback Cheers

[Peva3]

Hey, could somebody with a Nesus 7.2 and a decent spec PC AND importantly very good wifi please checkout Splashtop Streamer

PC side: http://www.splashtop.com/home
Android side: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ote.pad.v2

Just create an account logon to the account both ends and connect... It works great with my SamsungS3 - order of magnitude better than any similar thing I have tried - it's like citrix HDX quality wise...

Be interesting to hear feedback Cheers

IIRC Splashtop was ruled out because the response time is over 20ms which is considered too high (I think Palmer said that but don't quote me, a bunch of threads have been blurred together for me).

[jquantum]

Hey, could somebody with a Nesus 7.2 and a decent spec PC AND importantly very good wifi please checkout Splashtop Streamer

PC side: http://www.splashtop.com/home
Android side: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ote.pad.v2

Just create an account logon to the account both ends and connect... It works great with my SamsungS3 - order of magnitude better than any similar thing I have tried - it's like citrix HDX quality wise...

Be interesting to hear feedback Cheers

IIRC Splashtop was ruled out because the response time is over 20ms which is considered too high (I think Palmer said that but don't quote me, a bunch of threads have been blurred together for me).

The response time is at least large enough for audio to be distinctly out of sync (video is in sync with audio) so in theory you could use it to test your lens and tracker setup but you notice lag.

[zacherynuk]

Hey, could somebody with a Nesus 7.2 and a decent spec PC AND importantly very good wifi please checkout Splashtop Streamer

PC side: http://www.splashtop.com/home
Android side: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ote.pad.v2

Just create an account logon to the account both ends and connect... It works great with my SamsungS3 - order of magnitude better than any similar thing I have tried - it's like citrix HDX quality wise...

Be interesting to hear feedback Cheers

IIRC Splashtop was ruled out because the response time is over 20ms which is considered too high (I think Palmer said that but don't quote me, a bunch of threads have been blurred together for me).

The response time is at least large enough for audio to be distinctly out of sync (video is in sync with audio) so in theory you could use it to test your lens and tracker setup but you notice lag.

Oh for sure! But as a proof of concept and enjoying the view - its an easy way to experience the video quality the panel can give; once you understand the latency you can move slower and still enjoy the feel (Most of my DIY's have had a gyration mouse, so I know latency!) I was just thinking before somebody goes trying to rip them up... get one nicely mounted and try something gentle n soothing like...

I'll get my new one on the 28th and I doubt I'll be attempting another direct screen hack

[Kernel32]

.....

IIRC Splashtop was ruled out because the response time is over 20ms which is considered too high (I think Palmer said that but don't quote me, a bunch of threads have been blurred together for me).

Hi, been watching this thread closely since the beginning. Thank you all for the effort old sports. Keep it up please.

Would it maybe be more beneficial to use different app - iDisplay since it connects your android device as additional PC/Mac display both via WiFi and USB. Cable should be faster than WiFi in theory.

There goes my idea.

(Adhoc WiFi should be also faster than router WiFi.)

Is there any way to measure response time with no special equipment (aside of being real good with stopwatches)? I would like to try.

[zacherynuk]

.....

IIRC Splashtop was ruled out because the response time is over 20ms which is considered too high (I think Palmer said that but don't quote me, a bunch of threads have been blurred together for me).

Hi, been watching this thread closely since the beginning. Thank you all for the effort old sports. Keep it up please.

Would it maybe be more beneficial to use different app - iDisplay since it connects your android device as additional PC/Mac display both via WiFi and USB. Cable should be faster than WiFi in theory.

There goes my idea.

(Adhoc WiFi should be also faster than router WiFi.)

Is there any way to measure response time with no special equipment (aside of being real good with stopwatches)? I would like to try.

I tried iDisplay a few months back and it was super jerky - couldn't even use it to view flash or HTML YT... what have your experiences been like ?