SiliconMicroDisplay ST1080 - Short CES Review

Post by **WiredEarp** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:51 am

I theorize this effect would be superior for simulators in some ways (not 3d cockpits however) but if you had a dedicated projector for the scene this would be awesome.
3D is great for giving a real 3D cockpit and I think it gives you a pseudo collimated mode for long distance that works for me.

Post by **GSG9LIGHTNING** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:59 pm

@PalmerTech

On CES2012 you were able to play on the ST1080 which was connected to the PS3 Gaming Console running Gran Turismo.
As far as i know the PS3 can only output max. 1280x720 resolution right ?
Did you see any quality drop concerning the native resolution of the ST1080 being 1920x1080 pixels ?
Thank you !

When i change the resolution of my ACER Desktop Monitor ( native resolution 1920x1080 ) there is a big Picture-Quality drop when i switch to 1280x720.
Lets hope its not the same quality loss as on the monitor.

Post by **Frogztar** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:19 pm

pierreye wrote:
cybereality wrote:
pierreye wrote:Not sure on ST1080 but HMZ-T1 does give some sort of 3D illusion even in 2D mode, like 2.5D.
This phenomenon was discovered over 100 years ago. It was called the Synopter.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... aches.html
Didn't know there is the term for this effect. I should try to watch The Matrix using HMD and see if I get the same effect.

Using the stereo movie maker to view a 2D movie has the same effect: some depth, but not quite 3D. Cartoons wok much better than detailed movies for this. It looks less like 3D depth and more like cardboard cutouts at different distances.

Post by **Synexious** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:53 am

Frogztar wrote: Using the stereo movie maker to view a 2D movie has the same effect: some depth, but not quite 3D. Cartoons wok much better than detailed movies for this. It looks less like 3D depth and more like cardboard cutouts at different distances.

Does this work with comics? I'd like to convert comics into 3D.

Post by **Frogztar** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:29 pm

Well, it's not real 3D, it's just a trick like cyberreality described. I suppose you could try with comics but the effect wouldn't be that good. It works better with moving images but if the source isn't originally 3D it will never look as good.

Post by **dj2013** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:47 pm

So SMD posted some answers on their website and it looks like they updated their 3D specs to include the top and bottom format. They also wrote that other formats will be available in future releases. I hope they mean future software releases and not hardware release! Is it possible to convert half SBS videos into top and bottom formats? I have a feeling the conversion process would probably take hours

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:59 pm

I think the conversion could easily be done in real time, but the quality would suffer since you would be starting with half the horizontal resolution and stretching it.

Post by **Haldir** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Since it has no diopter correction, I'll wait for the next generation.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:43 pm

Cool, top-bottom support is nice to have.

Post by **Frogztar** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:18 am

What would top-bottom mean in terms of 1080p 3D gaming?

Post by **avo** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:01 am

I am a little confuse at ST1080's rated contrast ratio. This is what their website says "We state two contrast numbers, one for the capability of our microdisplays (1200:1) and one for the HMD system (100:1) which accounts for the LEDs that illuminate our LCoS displays. "

So what exactly is 1200:1 and 100:1? Full on/off contrast ratio or ansi contrast ratio? And how does these numbers compare to HMZ-T1?

Post by **Frogztar** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:52 am

Hard to say. I know they were really pushing the AR aspect with the 10% see through ability so that might effect the numbers?

Post by **CyberVillain** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:30 am

Frogztar wrote:Hard to say. I know they were really pushing the AR aspect with the 10% see through ability so that might effect the numbers?

The 10% see through crap is optional right? They will ship some kind of blocking filter with it right?

Post by **Frogztar** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:01 pm

The 10% see through crap is optional right? They will ship some kind of blocking filter with it right?

Yep, they have confimed that the ST1080 will be shipping with a blackout filter. They have been talking a lot about a 50% transparency version though for an affordable consumer HUD

Post by **brantlew** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm

It seems like they should have just designed it so you could swap out different transparency shields instead of offering a different version for each transparency level. Given the choice I would prefer the opaque one, but it would be cool if you had the option to test out different transparencies with a single unit.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:27 pm

I do wonder how well the 90% transparency will work for AR applications. It may be enough to make for some interesting experiences. But for most of the time I would probably use the blocker.

Post by **Frogztar** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:39 pm

@brantlew: That exactly what they are planning, but are still working on being able to manufacture a panel which is visible using a high level of transparencies. 10% is a proof of concept and is probably the limit for the displays in a bright environment for the moment (see the ST1080 CES review by PalmerTech)

@cybereality: 90% would be cool, but would probably require a TOLED screen rather than LCoS. TOLED is still in design stages for most - there is research into TOLED contact lenses, but the cemical mixture used to produce the red in the RGB scale is highly toxic and can be easily absorbed through eyes. I'm not planning on using the AR functionality of the ST1080, and I don't think 10% would be very useful.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:22 pm

avo wrote:I am a little confuse at ST1080's rated contrast ratio. This is what their website says "We state two contrast numbers, one for the capability of our microdisplays (1200:1) and one for the HMD system (100:1) which accounts for the LEDs that illuminate our LCoS displays. "

So what exactly is 1200:1 and 100:1? Full on/off contrast ratio or ansi contrast ratio? And how does these numbers compare to HMZ-T1?

It means that the panels themselves are 1200:1, which is in the same range as most good monitors and TVs. The 100:1 figure accounts for lighting, internal reflections, light loss through the lenses, etc. Now, you may say "Oh no! 100:1 sounds awful!", but the reality is, that is actually better than you will get with your average TV in an average scenario. Sure, that fancy TV might be capable in theory of 1200:1, but if you are watching it in anything less than an absolutely non-reflective pitch black environment, the effective contrast ratio plummets. Same thing with projectors that are capable of 10,000:1 contrast, no way is your actual image going to be even close to that.

Lots of professional HMDs have near 50:1 actual contrast, so 100:1 is doing pretty darn well. The Sony does better contrast wise, a LOT better, actually, but the ST1080 is also much brighter.

@Brantlew: If they wanted to make a version that was adjustable only with different blockers, there would be a lot of caveats. A viewer with 90% transparency would have to throw away 90% of the light being put off the panel.

Post by **dj2013** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm

Got the following email from them. Side-by-side now officially supported! Anyone else really impressed with the company's responsiveness so far??

Dear Email Subscriber,

There is one week left for pre-ordering the ST1080 at the discounted price of $699! After March 21, the price goes back up to $799.

Sales have been very brisk, and we at SMD have been very, very encouraged by the global response. So, to all you pre-order customers, thank you!

We've been updating our product specs page for the ST1080 on our website. Some of the updates include:
Earbuds are replaceable via 3.5mm mono jacks on each ear stem of the HMD
Controller now has 3.5mm stereo output jack for user's to use their own headphones
Confirmed that the HMD cable, which connects the HMD to the Controller, is integrated with the HMD
Confirmed that the head strap is included
3D formats supported: 720p/60Hz Frame Packing (full resolution), 1080p/24Hz Frame Packing (full resolution), 1080p/30Hz Top and Bottom (1920x2160), 1080p/60Hz Side by Side (half resolution)
External battery pack is not included in the base product.
Compatible with iPhone 4S (requires Apple Digital AV Adapter) and Droid X mobile phones.
Compatible with iPad 2 (requires Apple Digital AV Adapater)
We are continuing to make progress towards production ramp up, and we're excited for the market response once its in your hands. Thanks again.

Sincerely,

Paul Jin
CEO, SiliconMicroDisplay

Post by **Frogztar** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:04 am

Very impressed.

Post by **dj2013** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:21 am

ohh man so close to pulling the trigger on this one now... the only thing that I'm afraid of is the physical incompatibility with my prescription glasses! The last thing I want is to buy the thing and then find that it won't fit over my glasses and having to spend another fortune on new glasses or contact lens haha. The only comforting thing is that their own founder Mike Jin wears glasses.

Palmer, since you're one of the few people on this board that actually went to their booth, did you happen to notice anyone with glasses trying out their product or have difficulty with fitting? Do you happen to wear glasses yourself? =D

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:23 pm

Has anyone actually pre-ordered yet? I am wondering if they charge the credit card immediately or wait til it ships. I'm assuming they do it immediately but I recall hearing somewhere that it was illegal to charge credit cards until the unit has actually shipped. Any idea?

Post by **Frogztar** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:54 pm

I have. AU$745 after converting for USD and US$80 for international shipping. I used Paypal just in case so I can lodge a dispute if all goes pear shaped (I don't think it will, but SMD is a new company).

This will be my first 3D device and have been looking for the perfect resolution/display/weight/compatibility/price combo for about 2 years now. I think the ST1080 will be as close as it gets and can't wait for their 4K version

Post by **love2scoot** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:01 am

I ordered on the 3rd. They did charge the entire amount upfront.

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:50 am

I've been struggling with the decision all week, but finally ordered mine. Optimistic but hoping it doesn't become an expensive paper weight. They charged my card immediately for $731 ( no tax for some reason

) Now I just need to figure out my head tracker.

Post by **space123321** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:56 am

After owning glasses style HMD's in the past, I do prefer the head strap/helmet style. While the specs are soooo nice and coming together perfectly - my main concern is the fact that there is no light block piece from side/rear light entering the glasses (I recall my Vuzix glasses had a rubber add-on that blocked out rear/side light that was essential while I used it). Unfortunely this puts a hault to my interest...

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:25 am

Seems odd to consider light pollution as an important decision factor. That's the easiest thing to fix. Scarf or light-switch both work pretty well in that respect.

Post by **space123321** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:48 am

True - I guess I am trying to justify my HMZ over the ST lol!

In all honesty it is just a personal preference - some like the glasses style, some like the helmet style... just glad to be seeing more displays coming to market!

Post by **brantlew** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:15 pm

Yeah having two players in the market is great!...except that it makes decision-making that much harder. I badly wanted the Sony FOV and constrast and would also prefer a sensory blocking design, but I just couldn't come to terms with some of its short-comings.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:46 pm

dj2013 wrote:Palmer, since you're one of the few people on this board that actually went to their booth, did you happen to notice anyone with glasses trying out their product or have difficulty with fitting? Do you happen to wear glasses yourself? =D

They said it should work with glasses. I do have glasses, but I rarely wear them, and did not try them out myself with the ST1080.

Even if not, you should be able to take your prescription to a cheap glasses shop and get a pair made, then take the lenses and stick them to the ST1080. I don't know the cost for you, but there is a place near me that will do cheap pairs for $20 USD.

Post by **dj2013** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:28 pm

that's ingenious Palmer! Thanks for the great suggestion!

btw I'm not sure if anyone here checks SMD's blog but there's a poster that keeps demanding features and spamming their comment board. Sounds a lot like that guy you guys banned haha.

Post by **Frogztar** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:41 pm

dj2013 wrote:that's ingenious Palmer! Thanks for the great suggestion!

btw I'm not sure if anyone here checks SMD's blog but there's a poster that keeps demanding features and spamming their comment board. Sounds a lot like that guy you guys banned haha.

Mr Nigam? yeah, really annoying

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:39 pm

Man, I really want to get one of these HMDs, but I don't like the idea of forking over $700 and then waiting for months for the item to ship. I'm thinking now of just getting the Sony and then selling it when the ST1080 comes out. Should retain most of its value considering the prices I see on eBay.

Post by **FingerFlinger** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:21 pm

@ cybereality

That's exactly how I am justifying my recent purchase of the HMZ. Unless the HMD market explodes in the next few months, history has shown that they retain their value pretty well. I may change to the ST1080 once they've shipped and some of the users here have weighed in.

Post by **timeless001** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:44 am

@Palmer Tech,

Thanks for all the details, very informative.

I was seriously considering the HMZ-T1, purely for 3D gaming following a bad experience purchasing a high-end TV that had incredible 2D performance but contrary to many reviews and an industry "award", terrible 3D cross-talk. However, after reading your short review and subsequent comments I am now considering the ST1080.

What are your initial thoughts on the ST1080's 3D performance in respect to crosstalk? (I am assuming Gran Turismo was in 3D?) Is the ST1080 really cross-talk free as the makers claim? Better or worse than the HMZ-T1 in this respect?

Also, what about sense of depth? I gather it loses out to the HMZ due to smaller FOV but would you compare it favourably to say a large screen TV noted for good 3D performance (say a 50"+ Panasonic GT or VT series)...?

Many thanks for your time.

Post by **space123321** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:26 am

Just my 2 cents as I have gone from a VT25 Panny to a Samsung (both had terrible ghosting) to a projector setup (barely gets used now due to the next baby) and now an LG passive... the LG is the best 3d picture I have had!

The HMZ is entirely ghost free, and while it is the most natural 3d image out of the bunch, the 3d effect is not the same as the LG passive... the popout is not as intense. Don't get me wrong, the HMZ is an incredible picture and experience, just a different experience. Had a great laugh at the wife last night. I got her playing Child of Eden with the PS Move... she is NO fan of the HMD experience as she very easily gets motion sickness. She did love the experience, until she removed the HMD. She instantly turned green and her next half was not a good one for her lol! She is fine with movies on the HMD, howver anything that involves some sort of tracking... game over!

Post by **brantlew** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:54 am

Ditto for the LG passive TV. This was my first 3D TV, but I'm glad I was a late adopter because the LG passive technology is really good.

Post by **brantlew** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:06 am

Last day for pre-order. Now the long wait begins. I was worried that I might have buyer's remorse, but I am still very excited and happy about this device. It's going to be a tough few months waiting...

Anybody having second thoughts?

Post by **Frogztar** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:08 pm

@brantlew: Last day for discounted pre-order. Pre-order will remain available, but not at the discounted price. Juts FYI for anyone worried about missing out.
I'm not having second thoughts since they have added functionality over the last month. I agree with you on the waiting, can't wait for it and there will probably be additional delays a I am ordering to ship internationally.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:19 pm

I was considering the pre-order but I can't stand to pay and then wait. Just going to get the Sony for now and will take a look at the SMD when it actually releases (in May or whatever).