Nvidia 3080 or 3080 TI 3D vision support using modded drivers

[AlexTOPMAN]

or install the MSVC 2013 redistributables download from...

What about https://www.computerbase.de/downloads/s ... -runtimes/ ?

[helifax]

So rendering 120FPS in 2D will give you 60 FPS in 3D...

The problem is - only few games can scale with 2x performance. Often, games have no support SLI at all. I mean, new 3Ds SLI can work in any case, because doubling data happens only at CPU to GPU transfer point. CPU+GPU natively balanced games (optimized by developers) have more chance to double fps in 3Ds SLI.

I remember modifying inf/ini files to soft-mod my GTX into Quadro for professional applications...

Here are the instructions (sorry, that in Russian): https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopi ... #p17065337

Why are we talking about SLI?! I never mentioned SLI. This one on GPU alone.
I am not exactly sure what is the point you are trying to make, but the reality is this: in Stereo you have 2 eyes. In 2D you have 1 eye. In 3D you need to render 2x as much as in 2D. Basic math: if have 60 FPS in 2D and want 60 FPS in 3D you need to essentially render 120 FRAMES. Correct? Tell me how you can do it better. And please don't tell me "Stereo Reprojection and stuff"

Cheers!

[bo3bber]

I am sure Bo3b can address this very quickly though as he knows exactly what to do and well.. to debug it -------- obviously you need Visual Studio installed anyway!

Thank you for explaining this. But even with VS2013 installed it still crashes, so I would be grateful for a recompiled version. In the meantime, I will do the testing with DX 10/11 games.

I have also found a resource I would like to share with you. It explains the process of DLL redirection and may be useful for our purposes:

https://www.exploit-db.com/docs/english ... ection.pdf

Sorry for that bad build, I don't typically ship debug builds.

New version is on server with the D version of the file. Works on my alternate machine, so hopefully works for you too. Same link.

[Lizzard]

Please don't neglect these guys at DDD - Dynamic Digital Depth. I'm looking more seriously to find contact details. But I think it might be right underneath our noses. Neil seems to have contact with Chris Yewdall, CEO of Dynamic Digital Depth (former I suppose). I still use Tridef Ignition 6.7 on Windows 10 - 1903 with zero problems. At least the games that are listed still loads and works perfect in VR SBS. There are a few that have had updates since this was released, like StarCraft2 and Command & Conquer 3, that have trouble. Their fixes also adapted a "Universal" structure where some effects are broken like reflections. It also works independent of the 3d Vision driver. And in some cases it works better than Helix's wrapper or 3dMigoto. This code full of potential is just rusting out there somewhere.

Some of the most exciting news of its time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSnLz_jIEqc

[TonyMontana]

New version is on server with the D version of the file. Works on my alternate machine, so hopefully works for you too. Same link.

Thank you very much! I'd have wished not to say this again, but unfortunately the new build is still crashing for me on 2 different machines both properly set up as instructed. Also tried different versions of nvwgf2umx.dll. I should note that both are running AMD CPUs. Here is what the d3d11_log.txt reads:


*** D3D11CreateDeviceAndSwapChain called with
pAdapter = 0000000000000000
Flags = 0x2
pFeatureLevels = 0
FeatureLevels = 0
pSwapChainDesc = 0000009B0D73F600
ppSwapChain = 00007FF7E54F7450
ppDevice = 00007FF7E54F7440
pFeatureLevel = 0
ppImmediateContext = 00007FF7E54F7448
-- UnhookableCreateDevice called
->Feature level null, defaults to D3D_FEATURE_LEVEL_11_0.
*** Hooked_CreateDXGIFactory2 called with riid: IDXGIFactory
Upcast QueryInterface(IDXGIFactory2) returned result = 0, factory = 00000238C9297530
CreateDXGIFactory2 returned factory = 00000238C9297530, result = 0
Replaced Hooked_LdrLoadDll for: C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_b2dd7130a686a22f\nvwgf2umx.dll to E:\Eigene Dateien\Downloads\3D_Direct_Test_452.06\nvwgf2umx.dll
Replaced Hooked_LoadLibraryExW for: C:\Windows\system32\nvapi64.dll to E:\Eigene Dateien\Downloads\3D_Direct_Test_452.06\nvapi64.dll
->failed with HRESULT=887a002d
->failed with HRESULT=887a002d
Destroying DLL...


I am currently investigating how the driver could be forced to load or redirect to dlls from previous driver versions.

It seems that, as you have mentioned, nvapi64.dll and nvapi.dll from 456.38 still contain all the same stereo calls from 452. Therefore the nvd3dum.dll still works with 3DV and DX9. We "only" need to find a way to redirect / reroute the calls from nvapi64.dll to a previous nvwgf2umx.dll that could co-exist besides the current one (either in subfolder or renamed).

I am happy that nvidia at least have left us the basic 3DV skeleton, so that we are able to build on that!

[Losti]

Whats the use of the new driver if we redirect it to the old driver dll???

[harisukro]

Did everyone tested the new hotfix 456.71 ? cause has a different branch [r456_61-6] vs old 456.55 - [r456_26-15]

[TonyMontana]

Whats the use of the new driver if we redirect it to the old driver dll???

Because, as we now have found out together, only the previous versions of nvwgf2umx.dll contain the stereo activation code required to activate NvSCPAPI.dll and NvSCPAPI64.dll.

So theoretically it should be possible to make the new driver have both versions of nvwgf2umx.dll at the same time - the new 456.38 one for regular, "non-stereo" calls - the second one from the previous driver 452 just for stereo calls.

Following this approach, I was able to make redirections on 456.38 from nvd3dum.dll --> NvSCPAPI.dll --> abcdefg.dll (previous, but renamed version of nvd3dum.dll) for testing purposes and it worked like a charm (manipulate calls coming from NvSCPAPI.dll).

When I then deleted the abcdefg.dll (while at the same time having the nvd3dum.dll still in the folder), the game still worked normally but without 3DV. Pasting the abcdefg.dll in again, stereo kicked back in. Deleting it again, stereo was off again. This proves it is possible to make redirections from NvSCPAPI.dll --> abcdefg.dll

This clearly only worked because on 456.38, nvd3dum.dll still contains the stereo activation code whereas nvwgf2umx.dll does not, as bo3bber already told us before.

But luckily, this is not true for nvapi64.dll (As far as we have found out yet).

So IMHO, stereo activation with DX11 will work, if (and thats a big if) we will be able to redirect the stereo activation calls (and only them) from the highest instance (this should be nvapi64.dll? ) to a previous nvwgf2umx.dll while at the same time leave the "non-stereo"-calls to go to the current nvwgf2umx.dll.

Is this route correct?:

usual, non-stereo calls: nvapi64.dll ? --> 456.38 nvwgf2umx.dll

stereo-calls only: nvapi64.dll ? --> 452.06 nvwgf2umx.dll --> NvSCPAPI64.dll --> 452.06 nvwgf2umx.dll (or is it the other way around, I am not sure yet)

Question: What file(s) make the call to NvSCPAPI.dll and NvSCPAPI64.dll other than nvd3dum(x).dll and nvwgf2um(x).dll?

I would like to point out that I am not an software engineer, but I will give my best to help you to solve this issue. If you have any documentation on the nvidia Stereo API available, I would be grateful if you could share it with me.

Also, if I am wrong with any of the above, please correct me. These are only theoretical assumptions based on the research I did so far.

[Necropants]

Really appreciate your work and anyone else who is looking into a way out of this mess =)

[njbrodeur87]

Just wanted to confirm from others in this thread that I understand this. Even if I have a separate windows partition with the latest 3dfix manager compatible driver on my current pc that works great with the 1080ti, if I upgrade to a 3080, even if I don't upgrade those said drivers I had, it still won't work? My plans were always to have a current os with updated drivers from nvidia, and then keep using the 3dfix manager compatible driver on my separate windows copy for just 3d and not update those drivers that were working and use a 3080 with it.

Ugh if the above doesn't work I may have to make a separate brand new pc for just 3d games only and spec with with a 2080 instead but hopefully I don't have to.

Thanks everyone

[Lysander]

Just wanted to confirm from others in this thread that I understand this. Even if I have a separate windows partition with the latest 3dfix manager compatible driver on my current pc that works great with the 1080ti, if I upgrade to a 3080, even if I don't upgrade those said drivers I had, it still won't work? My plans were always to have a current os with updated drivers from nvidia, and then keep using the 3dfix manager compatible driver on my separate windows copy for just 3d and not update those drivers that were working and use a 3080 with it.

Ugh if the above doesn't work I may have to make a separate brand new pc for just 3d games only and spec with with a 2080 instead but hopefully I don't have to.

Thanks everyone

your 3080 won't work with the old drivers that allow 3D Vision. And 3D Vision won't work with the new driver required by 3080.

[njbrodeur87]

Ugh dammit gonna have to build a new 3d build just for 3d games then in the near future as I have a 3080 coming to me in next couple weeks

[bo3bber]

Because, as we now have found out together, only the previous versions of nvwgf2umx.dll contain the stereo activation code required to activate NvSCPAPI.dll and NvSCPAPI64.dll.

So theoretically it should be possible to make the new driver have both versions of nvwgf2umx.dll at the same time - the new 456.38 one for regular, "non-stereo" calls - the second one from the previous driver 452 just for stereo calls.

Following this approach, I was able to make redirections on 456.38 from nvd3dum.dll --> NvSCPAPI.dll --> abcdefg.dll (previous, but renamed version of nvd3dum.dll) for testing purposes and it worked like a charm (using IDA Pro to manipulate calls coming from NvSCPAPI.dll).

When I then deleted the abcdefg.dll (while at the same time having the nvd3dum.dll still in the folder), the game still worked normally but without 3DV. Pasting the abcdefg.dll in again, stereo kicked back in. Deleting it again, stereo was off again. This proves it is possible to make redirections from NvSCPAPI.dll --> abcdefg.dll

This clearly only worked because on 456.38, nvd3dum.dll still contains the stereo activation code whereas nvwgf2umx.dll does not, as bo3bber already told us before.

But luckily, this is not true for nvapi64.dll (As far as we have found out yet).

So IMHO, stereo activation with DX11 will work, if (and thats a big if) we will be able to redirect the stereo activation calls (and only them) from the highest instance (this should be nvapi64.dll? ) to a previous nvwgf2umx.dll while at the same time leave the "non-stereo"-calls to go to the current nvwgf2umx.dll.

Is this route correct?:

usual, non-stereo calls: nvapi64.dll ? --> 456.38 nvwgf2umx.dll

stereo-calls only: nvapi64.dll ? --> 452.06 nvwgf2umx.dll --> NvSCPAPI64.dll --> 452.06 nvwgf2umx.dll (or is it the other way around, I am not sure yet)

Question: What file(s) make the call to NvSCPAPI.dll and NvSCPAPI64.dll other than nvd3dum(x).dll and nvwgf2um(x).dll?

I would like to point out that I am not an software engineer, but I will give my best to help you to solve this issue. If you have any documentation on the nvidia Stereo API available, I would be grateful if you could share it with me.

Also, if I am wrong with any of the above, please correct me. These are only theoretical assumptions based on the research I did so far.

Super great experiments there, very helpful and great information.


The fact that you can call through to a different driver version is extremely helpful to know.

That fundamental idea of rerouting only the stereo calls is good I think, and your test there suggests it might work. We know the stereo code hasn't changed at all in years, and was still working. The only real question is whether they somehow broke how the stereo calls would interface with the driver itself.


I'm fairly certain I can build a 3Dmigoto that will reroute these calls to a different driver. I've already done a pre-loader for the Schwing hack to make it work on a per-game basis by force loading the hacked nvwgf2umx.dll into a given game. It's not much of stretch to reroute those stereo calls into a different, older, version of that file.


You can see the interface to all the calls here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bo3b/ ... llMain.cpp

This is our copy of the nvapi calls where we wrap every call for 3Dmigoto use. So all the calls we need are already wrapped here, and call into a 3Dmigoto code, which mostly just does logging right now.

This interface via nvapi.h must continue to work even for future drivers, because of how it's designed. It's built directly into games and other software by the use of the nvapi.lib, and thus is code in the field that cannot be changed without an update.

That code is some sort of loader, where it decides what is available and where to route the calls. In a system with no 3D for example, calling that stereo call does not crash, it has a sanity check and returns an error. That's what we see here.

So in principle at least, we can reroute that failing call from 456.38 into say the hacked driver for 452.06. We can be sure the underlying code would get called, the only question is whether it will find what it needs in the new driver.

A promising path of research, but really not clear. Depends a lot upon how badly designed the nvidia driver is. Early indications are- pretty bad. Worth a try but don't be too surprised if we can get the re-route to work but it still fails to solve our problem.

[skyrimer]

By the way, is Schwing alright? We haven't heard from him for a long time.

[Losti]

Did everyone tested the new hotfix 456.71 ? cause has a different branch [r456_61-6] vs old 456.55 - [r456_26-15]

Its useless to hope that any driver out there later 452.X will have the driver calls back in it ^^ Why should they do this? the branch later 452 will NOT HAVE IT ANYMORE in the DX11 driver file. Its useless to try hotfixes, beta drivers, wuattro or whatever is later than 452. But if you want to have a look, get the driver. Open the exe in winrar/7zip, extract the nvwgf2umx.dl_ in the Display.Driver folder to where ever you want, open windows command line (cmd.exe), move to the folder you have extracted the nvwgf2umx.dl_, type in expand nvwgf2umx.dl_ nvwgf2umx.dll, open nvwgf2umx.dll in a hex editor, search for the string "vision". If you cant find any thing that is called 3DVISION or 3D VISION, the stereo calls are not present.

[Lysander]

Ugh dammit gonna have to build a new 3d build just for 3d games then in the near future as I have a 3080 coming to me in next couple weeks

Yeah, for now, at least until the experts figure out how to hack the drivers.
Alternatively, we can hope they invent mind-wipe, so you can replay all the games and experience them like you're playing for the first time

[narhicfd]

Please don't neglect these guys at DDD - Dynamic Digital Depth. I'm looking more seriously to find contact details. But I think it might be right underneath our noses. Neil seems to have contact with Chris Yewdall, CEO of Dynamic Digital Depth (former I suppose). I still use Tridef Ignition 6.7 on Windows 10 - 1903 with zero problems. At least the games that are listed still loads and works perfect in VR SBS. There are a few that have had updates since this was released, like StarCraft2 and Command & Conquer 3, that have trouble. Their fixes also adapted a "Universal" structure where some effects are broken like reflections. It also works independent of the 3d Vision driver. And in some cases it works better than Helix's wrapper or 3dMigoto. This code full of potential is just rusting out there somewhere.

Some of the most exciting news of its time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSnLz_jIEqc

Lizzard, when using TriDef with an Nvidia card, are you limited to 720p 60htz and 1080p 24Htz as well for those who are using 3DTV and a full 1080p 3D projector? My projector can only do 120htz on 1280 x 720p? I have TriDef version 7.4 on my PC, and with my previous AMD card I could do 1080p. I want to get used to using 3V vision before I start messing around with using tridef an my invidia card.
Also, for what reason would using prefer using TriDef over 3D vision?

[Necropants]

I thought Tridef is fake z-buffer 3D only?

[dlrjajdlfo]

I thought Tridef is fake z-buffer 3D only?

I think so too.
All apps except 3dvision have some fake 3d elements.

However, in some games may not feel the difference.

[whyme466]

TriDef’s Ignition had 2 modes - true S3D and a “fake” compatibility (power) mode 3D. When properly adjusted and using comparable shader fixes, Ignition and 3D Vision could yield very similar 3D perception in fixed games.

[P.C.Zen]

Ugh dammit gonna have to build a new 3d build just for 3d games then in the near future as I have a 3080 coming to me in next couple weeks

I know; when I found out, I spent my 3000 series money on a Titan RTX that someone was panic selling cheap. At this point my gaming P.C. is basically a dedicated 3D rig.

I'm just hoping that people stick around to enhance the fixes and the interfaces if a driver solution can't be found, because I just don't have anywhere near the chops to keep all of this stuff working myself. I'm dependant on the community for continued 3D support.

[RAGEdemon]

5) iz3D somehow magically agrees to give us their code

That seems like a reasonable list, I tweaked.

Let there be magic...

I wrote to the awesome Vadim, the CEO of iZ3D. He remembers me; he would like to very kindly share the files, and has invited me onto his Facebook where he has others from iZ3D who can help us out.

Gentlemen, this is a huge opportunity very kindly presented to us by Vadim.

I am at my knowledge's end as I would not know driver code if it were staring me in my face. I humbly implore the developers here, to speak to Vadim and the iZ3D team more directly [bo3b, DSS, Helifax, et al].

@Bo3b, For the sake of our mutual beloved hobby and the future of this amazing community, let's leave things in the past for the greater benefit of all; we need only keep things on a professional level.

I shall inquire further and update...

Message below:
=======================

iZ3D code...
Dear Vadim,

You won't remember me, however I was one of your first customers of the iZ3D monitor. It has always been one of my favourite 3D products and I was extremely saddened to hear that iZ3D was no longer going to be active.

It might surprise you to know that there is a dedicated Stereo3D community still active, both via forums and discord - we have fixed hundreds of games:

https://helixmod.blogspot.com/2013/10/g ... dated.html

We have developed our own tools to hack/wrap/inject into e.g. nVidia's old 3DVision driver to allow us to fix the broken effects in games, and are currently in the process of writing a Vulkan driver.

Unfortunately, the last bastion of 3D lovers - nVidia's 3DVision driver - has recently been discontinued.

As a community, we are quite desperate to keep 3D gaming alive - our developers have spend countless years coding towards making that happen, for example here:

https://github.com/bo3b/3Dmigoto/releases

Now, we are at an unfortunate impasse, as there is no place for us to turn to...

We would like to ask you if you know what happened to the iZ3D driver code?

We know that iZ3D has always been the best 3D driver, and we would love it if we could get our hands on it in some manner. We don't care if that way is open source, closed source, the code is messy / without any comments / incomplete etc - our talented and dedicated engineers will work it out.

If you don't mind me saying, the code likely has little value nowadays, however we could revive it into something quite special

I hope you might kindly consider this request; it would mean the world to a lot of people.

Kind regards,
-- Shahzad Ali
Cambridge.

=======================

Vadim Asadov 9:31 PM
Hi, Shahzad! Of course, I remember you!!! So long time no talk ... It is great you kept community - I am really glad to hear about it.
Let me check the status of code

Vadim Asadov 9:34 PM
I have a few file, but I have no ideas if the is the right one. Do you have a Facebook. I have a lot of former iZ3D guys there - I can ask them to help you

[Lizzard]

Lizzard, when using TriDef with an Nvidia card, are you limited to 720p 60htz and 1080p 24Htz as well for those who are using 3DTV and a full 1080p 3D projector? My projector can only do 120htz on 1280 x 720p? I have TriDef version 7.4 on my PC, and with my previous AMD card I could do 1080p. I want to get used to using 3V vision before I start messing around with using tridef an my invidia card.
Also, for what reason would using prefer using TriDef over 3D vision?

With Tridef you could use up to 4K DSR with your nVidia GPU on a projector at 60Htz. You dont activate 3d vision and also no 3d vision fix. There is a small difference with 2k DSR and 4K DSR on a projector screen. 4k DSR on a native 1080p projector is a bit overkill. Only in Virtual Reality do you notice a plausible difference. I've been playing some games like this for a while now(VR) and it certainly softens the screendoor effect. But Im having serious sync issues. Dont know if there are too many hoops. DSR is a good alternative to Anti Aliasing without serious performance penalties. AA has a blurry effect on picture quality with a significant hit in performance when it gets to 1440p (2k) and higher.

I just tried Dues Ex: Mankind Divided with its built in Side By Side on my projector with 4K DSR and it slices through it like cake. A solid 60fps and a really smooth good looking experience. I hope this could be achieved with more games in Helix Vision. Nothing beats the immersion of a VR headset.

The performance with Tridef is really good. Even up to 4K DSR. But their fixes lacks in quality compared to that of the HelixMod community. You will see that the fixes from 3D Fix manager are mostly 100% fixed. It is seldom to find broken effects or shaders. The only problem you primarily run into is setting it up. I personally never had problems. The only game over there that I really had trouble with setting up was Zelda:BOTW. But having an unpolished emulator in the equation did cause a lot of complications. The correct version did however give me a 100 hours of pure consistent fun. The latest one that BlueSkyDefender and his comrades released was a few steps ahead in quality and performance on the Vulcan API. But it crashed a lot when you had to bring up the UI.

The best use for Tridef over 3dVision is when you use a projector or a VR headset. When you use a monitor it wouldnt make sense unless you could get Frame Sequential. (that which Tridef offered through AMD) I never really heard the guys with 4k tvs complain about HSBS though. Cant really comment on that cause i never owned a 4k 3d TV. Way out of my budget and im not a TV person. With Tridef on a nVidia card you get half the horizontal pixels and this is very apparent when you compare these 2 technologies. I used to play Mass Effect 2 with Tridef, before I got my unsupported 3d monitor working with 3d Vision. When I got it working I haven't used Tridef untill I got a VR headset. 3dVision on a monitor or TV will be better with its full frames. The problem on a projector with 3d vision is that you cant use DSR unless you hack the software with CRU. I personally never got to it. There was one thread about it over on the old 3d vision forum that seemed like a hit and miss or break scenario. Tridef is more plug and play since it uses universal SBS algorithms. The same concept that games like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, former Trine Trilogy, Avatar the game and such use. Tridef also didn't modify shaders. As a company you could get into trouble. Ralf seems to be following the same pursuit with VorpX. That's why their fixes aren't always 100%. To get it 100% you have to hack some individually. I believe this is at the core why stereoscopic gaming became a fad out there for some. You cant design a game for 10 platforms and have a stereoscopic option integrated for all of them. The variables go crazy on top of this with a hundred different displays. It never became a selling point for game developers. If DDD went to nVidia with their software instead of AMD things might have turned out completely different (or did AMD go to DDD? Did AMD start DDD? these things I don't know). However these matters transpired. DDD had everyone in mind from Android to nVidia. But what use is this if nobody makes 3d displays anymore? 3d Monitors never became a thing. It blew over. It is gone. The masses didn't like. No money cow. No more products.

Right now 3dVision fans are facing a terrible dilemma. Im not a programmer but even from my little understanding about this it sounds like the drivers needs to be altered in a much more risky way to bring 3d Vision back. It sounds like dangerous territory. Would it still be worth it for the guys here to keep modding drivers when nVidia explicitly removed these calls that used to be the lifeline for 3d vision? There is a great chance that this is the end. That 3dVision finally reached obsolete and unsustainable status. I personally would not like it if any of the shader hackers here whose done so much for this community in the past decade get into legal trouble. Everyone here knows they've done nothing but enhance the gaming experience ten fold. Also got a great amount of guys to buy into these games and tech. And it hasn't been monetized until HelixVision. I mean seriously. For how many years did these guys do it with next to zero compensation? In court, whomever tries to get dogmatic about this might shoot themselves in the foot. You might start to get legal gold diggers attention when you drive a "billion" dollar competitive company...

Despite the gloom and doom there is a great backlog which very few would even get to finish half of before they die. For now we will only be stuck on older drivers. With the launch of the 30 series millions would now be able to get 2nd hand quality GPU's that could finally give them the performance they need to push this tech to its full potential. But its only possible with Virtual Reality cause this is where the market and hardware is at. In my personal opinion we could not have asked for a better outcome. Despite this poop with nVidia. You can now do proper marketing for stereoscopic gaming with all the variables eliminated since HMD's have a IPD adjustment built into it. If the IPD adjustment fails you simply reduce the virtual screen's size inside the HMD. I've asked it a few years ago, why didnt DDD or 3d Vision or VorpX ever promote their products during a AAA 3d movies' advertisements??? With the explosion of Oculus Go and Quest you have an audience to lure. All it is going to take is the right Youtuber to get it out. Someone on our side. In that regard every guy here could play a part. I already started. It is the least we could do to help this grow. Or revive if you prefer. Perhaps even revolutionize if you feel patriotic.

[RAGEdemon]

Gentlemen, Vadim has kindly set up a group chat with 3 of the iZ3D team and asked them to provide the iZ3D driver source code. I am sure we will have many questions also.

I have asked DSS to join the group, and sent a message to Helifax, however I do not have fast contact for bo3b. Bo3b, as much as it might pain you, would you kindly sign up to the ol' Facebook and friend

===============
11:20 PM
Vadim created the group.

Hi, guys! You may remember Shahzad - one of iZ3D most active customer. They have a community working on 3D gaming, but looks like nVidia dropped their 3D driver support. So, iZ3D driver is their only chance. Is there a way to share the source code with them? Or I can try to do it if you will give me an instructions.

[TonyMontana]

@RAGEdemon: This is indeed VERY exciting news! I thank you (and of course Mr. Vadim Asadov) very very much!!!

With iZ3D sharing their source-code, the proprietary Nvidia 3DV driver could finally become obsolete while we could continue to use our beloved 3DV hardware (monitor, glasses and IR-emitter) independently from Nvidia's software-support, even on RTX30-hardware, if I am not mistaken!

It also may be possible that this could be used on virtually ANY 120 Hz Monitor, not just the "certified" ones!

However, this certainly will be a long way to go, so I think it will be the best doing further investigations to find a way to make the "old" 3DV driver work - even if that means a lot of testing / experimenting.

[bo3bber]

Gentlemen, Vadim has kindly set up a group chat with 3 of the iZ3D team and asked them to provide the iZ3D driver source code. I am sure we will have many questions also.

I have asked DSS to join the group, and sent a message to Helifax, however I do not have fast contact for bo3b. Bo3b, as much as it might pain you, would you kindly sign up to the ol' Facebook and friend

===============
11:20 PM
Vadim created the group.

Hi, guys! You may remember Shahzad - one of iZ3D most active customer. They have a community working on 3D gaming, but looks like nVidia dropped their 3D driver support. So, iZ3D driver is their only chance. Is there a way to share the source code with them? Or I can try to do it if you will give me an instructions.

Brilliant! This sounds really promising. I am absolutely available to host it open-source, closed source, however they would like to see it. If they have no preference, adding it to either my github or DarkStarSword's would be amazing.

I've got a fake FaceBook account, and I'm happy to use that to communicate with them. But I know close to zero about how to use FaceBook and can't find their group.

Best way to contact me is via email <iz3d@bo3b.net>

[skyrimer]

Cautiously optimistic with this until It's done, but if indeed this becomes true, then Nvidia making 3d vision obsolete would actually become a really good turn of events for all of us, and overall for every stereoscopic gamer no matter the platform or hardware.

[RAGEdemon]

Thanks for the response guys - fingers crossed.

The group chat is new to me too; I believe it is a form of private messaging and therefore unsearchable using facebook's search function.

Update:

Shahzad:
Indeed; I have never used the group function before. Would it perhaps be possible to add our community developers Bo3b, Ian, and Octavian?
The wise people can speak directly to each other

Vadim:
I think so, but let's wait our guys response first. They may propose some other way to communicate - Slack or Telegram - more common for devs

[P.C.Zen]

This sounds fantastic. Really hoping this works.

[Marin3D]

I remembered reading this article when 3D was still in full swing about iz3D, its seems they thought about open source before

https://3dvision-blog.com/7891-what-is- ... e-project/

[Lysander]

So assuming it's possible to get this iZ3D to get rid of nVidia driver, is it going to remove the 3-core CPU bug/limitation as well?

[ZePRiNCE]

Of course it would. Because this bug/limitation was very specific to the 3D Vision driver.
However, probably iZ3D has other inconvenients. But if it's open source (at least for some geniuses here ) there is hope for improvements.
But that's a long term project I think.
We have to think about it.

But for a short term solution, I still believe there is hope to hack Nvidia driver.

I think the same as TonyMontana.
It's probably possible to have the 2 dlls to coexists together.

And even if it's not possible to have a "intelligent switch" (based to if the call is about 3D Vision or not), maybe there is a more basic solution possible : we would "manually" choose to which dll to go (with 3DFM for example ? and/or a condition if 3D is enabled in registry...)

What I'm worried about is
- if the new driver + the old dll will work with new 3000 serie ?
- regarding iz3D, are we gonna "loose" all existing 3D fixes ?

[Pauldusler]

Big thanks to RageDemon for asking iz3d CEO to make help this great 3D community by providing his source code to us. Very appreciated! I hope that's about to happen although I'm not really believing it.

@RAGEdemon: Please let us know of any news here. In my very personal opinion it's just too good to be true. Because then we had an existing code base without spending too much time on developing a new driver on our own. On the other hand it sounds so weird that the CEO of iz3d asked for 800.000 dollars for the driver from a small community in 2012. Only 250.000 users downloaded the driver. I guess a lot of users just used it in anaglyph mode to try out very quickly and were disappointed in the end because anagylph is never good enough - same rule applied for 3D Vision Discover by Nvidia. Anagylph 3D / glasses was never good enough. This in the end finally resulted that only 50.000 were interested in the open sourced iz3d driver who used it with proper 3D glasses. And let's assume only 10% knew of the offer to make it open source. So 5.000 people left to make donations. Only 10% of them were willing to donate. I know how realistic donation numbers are - because I'm the developer of 3DFM. Only a small fraction of people are motivated to donate. So 500 people left to donate for the iz3d driver and that's already the best assumption here.... 500 people have to donate 800.000 dolllars to make a driver open source. How unrealistic is that? Then still the driver is not improved / made compatible yet for shader hacking,... so I'm very sceptical in general about that news by RageDemon.

[Pauldusler]

- regarding iz3D, are we gonna "loose" all existing 3D fixes ?

Of course we will lose all DX11 3D fixes. 6 years will be more or less wiped on RTX 3080 and all future graphics cards. The required shader hacks will be totally different on the iz3d driver if we will get the driver at all / make the driver work properly.

[RAGEdemon]

Hi guys,

I agree; it sounds too good to be true. I too am cautious, and I believe cases like this ought to be treated with caution to avoid disappointment.

One of the developers said "Hi. I will check" in reply to the CEO in the group chat. I have thanked him for the effort. No update from him yet, but I am trying to be cautious to not annoy anybody - they have their own lives and are doing us a big favour. I shall pm him asking him for any progress tomorrow.

To iZ3D's huge credit, they returned all donations in the end. From the interaction on the forums back in the day, I remember them being good people. Indeed, if this doesn't work out for whatever reason, it would be hard to find anyone more disappointed than myself... I'm keeping all my fingers (and toes) crossed.

Regards.

[Necropants]

*ignore, responded to an old comment already answered*

[P.C.Zen]

Also, I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to purposefully include code to disable a 3rd party driver, or even a driver based on their own code; I think it's something they're totally capable of doing and I think they could more readily justify doing so if it's a 3rd party driver being used with their (albeit legacy) tech. I wouldn't even put it past Nvidia to include code to brick the glasses/pyramids; I think they're absolutely capable of being that soulless. For that reason I'd hope that an iZ3D driver, if one could be produced, could hopefully work with AMD cards and hopefully AMD at the very least wouldn't care about their cards being used with Nvidia tech.

Plus, I'd hate to see the current fixes be forgotten about and left to turn legacy and potentially unusable. There are still a lot of games on the list I've not played yet and probably many I'd like to re-visit and re-play in years to come (for example, as a fan of the original Alien movie, having something like Alien: Isolation in 3D is a pretty cool thing to have, to dip into once in a while. Also, my favourite games I like to re-visit and re-play, like watching my favourite films, and I'd like to be able to play them in 3D).

Personally, if I had to gamble the current library of fixes against the possibility of getting 3rd party drivers working, I think I'd just stick with the existing fixes and try and keep them maintained. I know it's not an either/or proposition (i.e. we could potentially have both) but I think there's still a lot of value in the existing library, and I'd hate to see it forgotten about and left to fall into disrepair.

I guess there's not really much choice in the matter as it seems to be more a case of whatever can be made to work, rather than what everyone would prefer, and I don't have the skills to even begin to try to do this stuff myself, but for what it's worth, those are my feelings.

[TonyMontana]

The fact that you can call through to a different driver version is extremely helpful to know.

That fundamental idea of rerouting only the stereo calls is good I think, and your test there suggests it might work. We know the stereo code hasn't changed at all in years, and was still working. The only real question is whether they somehow broke how the stereo calls would interface with the driver itself.


I'm fairly certain I can build a 3Dmigoto that will reroute these calls to a different driver. I've already done a pre-loader for the Schwing hack to make it work on a per-game basis by force loading the hacked nvwgf2umx.dll into a given game. It's not much of stretch to reroute those stereo calls into a different, older, version of that file.

Thank you for your response! Using a 3Dmigoto to inject the dlls sounds really good, have you tried this yet?

It may be necessary to also inject nvd3dum.dll via your loader.

Therefore, I would like to add the following results from further experiments:

- 456.38 nvapi.dll + nvapi64.dll are "compatible" with driver 452.06 without the driver crashing AND 3DV still working in all DX versions (I have also replaced them in system32 and syswow64, too)

--> this means the 456 nvapis still call 3DV "normally" !

- certain parts of the code inside nvwgf2um.dll and x version can be modified without crashing the driver AND 3DV still working (I have inserted large portions of zeros 0000 via hex-editor to test this, they would still work)

--> the dll may allow to "insert" the dead functions to be restored that control 3DV

- 3DV will NOT activate whithout nvd3dum.dll being present, this is true even for DX 10/11 games

--> this suggest the 3DV code is "parted" between nvd3dum.dll and nvwg2fum.dll / nvd3dum.dll and nvwg2fumx.dll
--> we are lucky the 3DV code is still present in 456 nvd3dum.dll
--> the _cfg files (nvd3dum_cfg.dll, nvwgf2um_cfg.dll) are apparently not involved with 3DV

- inside the dll, I noticed lines with "3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D" --> probably some sort of marker, probably to highlight 3DV code?

Considering the above results, I believe the default 3DV route for stereo_api_calls works like this:

Code: Select all

   
     
         calls          calls            calls
nvapi.dll --> nvd3dum.dll --> nvwgf2um.dll --> NvSCPAPI.dll --> enables 3DV
                               |
                               |
                              here the chain brakes in 456, therefore NvSCPAPI.dll will not be called 

I will try now to debug the dlls to find the exact functions controlling the activation for 3DV. Also, I will continue research to the redirection / dll forwarding approach we have discussed earlier.

[RAGEdemon]

Gentlemen, I think we have Lift-off, thanks to Vadim and his amazing iZ3D team:



Download links have been sent to Bo3b, DSS, and Helifax.

The developers write:

Hi, this what I found <link>
But I removed madCodeHook library (http://madshi.net/) from it, because we can't distribute their source code. You can rewrite part of code that use it to something like EasyHook https://easyhook.github.io/

I don't know what this event means to us, but I hope it is what we were all hoping for to some degree...

Additional message:
=================
Shahzad:
Got it - Amazing!
Our community developers will likely have questions. Would you mind terribly if they contacted you?
Perhaps you would kindly suggest a preferred communication method you might consider good for you?

iZ3D team:
I can try to answer some small questions. But unfortunately, I won't have much time in the near future. You can write to me here or on Github if you will develop there.

Shahzad:
Gentlemen, Thank you once again; we are forever in your debt. We shall be very careful to not burden you - I think our devs will prefer Github too.
I shall pass along the kind message

My nickname there <xxx>, you can just mention me in issues/discussions

Vadim:
Good 3D luck!!!



Note: I am trying to keep the identities of the iZ3D team private, as revealing them on the open Internet would be unethical/bad form. Github ID sent to our kind devs...

[WickedScav]

This is just too amazing. Wow.

Even though this will require certainly a lot of work until it can completely replace the official nvidia 3DV drivers but this could just be what we have been waiting for since... well forever. This still sounds too good to be true. Great work guys and many thanks Vadim and his iZ3D team. This is a priceless piece of software after nvidia has left us in the rain.

If this really works, maybe fixing games might be easier with the right tools? Game fixes could be even integrated into future driver releases, so no more downloading and setting up the 3d fixes manually. Possibly even a unified in-game activation and keyboard shortcut scheme could be developed, to make it easier the adjust the basic 3d settings. The possibilities are endless