Meant to be Seen

Evenios wrote:Way to go Oculus for not bothering to figure that out you guys were smart enough to create a low cost VR headset but not smart enough to figure out how to get Unity Free to work with the Rift

sounds like a load of bull to me.

In their defense, they probably saw this solution but decided against it because it doesn't fit into a nice, efficient workflow. If they make us jump through hoops to get it to work, that's just not professional or complete on their end. It's also a recipe for a support nightmare. Also, they only promised Unity support, not Free/Pro. Also, it's up to communities like us to fill in the blanks where Oculus can't tread, and guess what? We've done that!

Evenios wrote:we'll see. kinda hard to be (fully) happy for a company that technically kind of screwed us over a bit with the last minute "ooh btw Unity Pro is required thing because although we are smart enough to come up with the first low cost real VR solution were not smart enough to figure out how to get Unity Pro to work even though it looks like someone on the forums is going to be able to with a 3rd party driver..".

To be fair to them, Oculus isn't the ones screwing us over here. They can't just MAKE the engine work with the Rift if the functionality isn't there. I'm guessing they pushed REALLY hard on Unity to try and get their stuff working for release, but in the end Unity just said "Sorry guys, can't do it, BUT... 4-month pro trial? *wink wink, nudge nudge*". I'm sure Palmer and the rest of the team at Oculus are stressed out enough about this turn of events, but they were smart enough to draw the line. Now they won't tank or get tied up in support cases which gives them more time to deliver the next Rift and a new SDK.

If we're so unhappy, what we should do is support them and push on the faulting company(Unity) ourselves. Get the support we need to make the games we want and not have to jump through hoops.

Round Two. I downloaded some free assets from the asset store (trees, bushes, grass and skybox) and painted up some terrain. Made a little windy forest path with a mysterious glowing KYOOB by a tree. Turned out OK I think. Runs at ~300 fps on my old 5950, the choppiness is due to the screen capture software.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sxeUM0PrBU[/youtube-hd]

tmek wrote:Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:13 am - untextured polygon party

tmek wrote:Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:25 pm - totally believable outdoor scene

I'd say that's one of the most compelling cases for Unity's usability yet presented, but then I remembered tmek is some kind of goddamned genius, so it's hard to know for sure.

nateight wrote:

tmek wrote:Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:13 am - untextured polygon party

tmek wrote:Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:25 pm - totally believable outdoor scene

I'd say that's one of the most compelling cases for Unity's usability yet presented, but then I remembered tmek is some kind of goddamned genius, so it's hard to know for sure.

wow - did you follow some of the terrain editor tutorials or was this done by trial and error? the terrain functions in Unity are mighty, can't wait to see how fast you progress in UDK nateight.

added a cozy campfire

tmek wrote:added a cozy campfire

And it only took you three hours! I could do a better job with two twigs and a shoelace, and there's an inch-and-a-half of snow on the ground! Quit slacking off!

@DaveRuddell & Baristan6 : great job, thanks for the VR cause !
OP updated.

sorry for my negitive posts. the 4 months trial will be a good place for people to get their feet wet. you could at the very least make some demos for yourself and what

and who knows maybe in the future down the road they will make the free version work with the Rift maybe the next major Unity version might add some features to the free version from the pro (while adding more to pro)

I was jumping to conclusions and the future is bright. Sorry for being an ass.

Ppl are still whining about this even though it will work with free as well? : p

Not sure this is the best place, but because of Unity needing a pro licence I have switched to UDK. I can't comment on how the programming compares, but I am very impressed with the graphics. For comparison here are a couple of shots from my first and only UDK session.

bobv5 wrote:Not sure this is the best place, but because of Unity needing a pro licence I have switched to UDK. I can't comment on how the programming compares, but I am very impressed with the graphics. For comparison here are a couple of shots from my first and only UDK session.

I am very interested in hearing how it goes once you start programming. I am guessing most in this thread won't be interested in your progress...perhaps it needs another thread.

I think this being the end of hobbyiest unity development for the rift is overstating it. Its definitely a blow to it and a hindrance. but its not universally going to stop it. $1500 is something many people will drop on their hobby without batting an eye. That might even be a bargain for the time savings. If we assume your time is worth at least minimum wage (and if you are skilled enough to make things in unity, your time is probably worth significantly more), then it only takes 166 hours of time saving to be worth the investment, not even considering potential sales or anything else, just for your own project that you spend your own time on. How long does it take to get 166 hours of efficiency increase? I don't know. However, if you also consider that a more usable development suite will be more pleasant to use, its not that hard to justify dropping $1500 grand for a hobbyist.
It probably will stop casual experimentation though.

"I think this being the end of hobbyiest unity development for the rift is overstating it"

I do not. The guys in favour of Unity are saying that it is cheaper if you make $50000 from it. If it is non comercial, purely hobby project, UDK is free. If you are making a years wage, I would not class it as a hobby. A job that you enjoy, perhaps, but not a hobby.

"That might even be a bargain for the time savings."

I think assuming hobby time is worth money is a mistake. The whole point of a hobby is that you enjoy doing it. If you are doing it for cash, it becomes work. EDIT- for my own personal use, learning UDK is going to be worth the time for the far beter visuals.

"I am very interested in hearing how it goes once you start programming. I am guessing most in this thread won't be interested in your progress...perhaps it needs another thread."

Probably. If I create something worthy of it's own thread I will make another thread.

I think the ambitious hobbyist will enjoy UDK, it is the "casual" hobbyist with enough spare cash that will likely still go for Unity.

My reason for looking at UDK is the option to use hardware physx - even if that means I can only bring my games to Nvidia system it would also mean I could finally go crazy on the physics.

And that looks pretty good bob - are those free assets that come with UDK?

The structure of the building is my own, the details are static meshes included with UDK.

I would like to see your crazy physics, I hope you can make them run on an open platform.

Then nice - seems to be quite workable too if you get that fast to such results. Looking forward to how you progress.

For the moment I am married to Unity, I think it is perfect for my LEAP development and a good training ground for a newbie like me. But once I have some more experience and decide to go Rift fulltime I might switch to UDK just for the physics, because I can see a game world very much become more "real" with physics even if it is build just from cubes and cylinders etc.

bobv5 wrote:"I think this being the end of hobbyiest unity development for the rift is overstating it"

I do not. The guys in favour of Unity are saying that it is cheaper if you make $50000 from it. If it is non comercial, purely hobby project, UDK is free. If you are making a years wage, I would not class it as a hobby. A job that you enjoy, perhaps, but not a hobby.

That measurement is onlysensical if your goal is profit. A hobbyist's goal is not profit. They are spending money on an activity because they enjoy it. Paying more for a better experience is perfectly reasonable.

bobv5 wrote: "That might even be a bargain for the time savings."

I think assuming hobby time is worth money is a mistake. The whole point of a hobby is that you enjoy doing it. If you are doing it for cash, it becomes work. EDIT- for my own personal use, learning UDK is going to be worth the time for the far beter visuals.

I'm not saying you are doing it for cash. I am saying that, even as a hobbiest developer, you want to make something. It will take some amount of time. If your workflow is better, you will make it in less time(or conversely, get more done in the time you have). This extra progress is what I am trying to get a ballpark estimate of; is it worth the investment to have more progress?

For my use, whatever extra oomph UDK gives to the visuals is pointless as I am not going to be making content that will look pretty. Things looking pretty requires good art. I don't make good art, I'm a programmer.
Paying $1500 for a program with better usability, a more enjoyable language, and a smoother workflow is something worth considering. Its not an obvious choice, but its not out of the question either.I was actually considering getting the pro version anyways, I'm just a bit miffed about it becoming mandatory.
What really pushes me is that Unity seems to have better support for procedural geometry and modifying geometry at run-time. That type of functionality is essential for the way I do things.

Learning UDK right now seems iffy with the transition from UE3 to UE4 which will abandon Unrealscript and move to C++. That to me makes me feel like if I spent any time in it, I would have to relearn everything in a year or two. I'd rather bet that hardware will get better first and the performance gap between UDK and Unity will close itself.

What I know is the Asset store, community, and even 3rd party asset stores are HUGE. Everyone has an opportunity to benefit - artists, musicians, developers, and designers. Developers on this side are adding more features to Unity just through optional packages. Spend an afternoon at unitygems.com and you'll probably know all you need by the time you get through the articles. I've already invested a lot in the Unity asset store without going pro and since I work mainly in OSX, it's ideal for me. My only gripe is that Unity needs to be more open to high performance-demanding games. They've rejected asset store models because the poly count was too high (but fine for games like Uncharted/Gears of War/Mass Effect), and my guess is this has something to do with mobiles.

Yes, you are right about Unity seeming to have a phobia of high end PC games, though they seem to be getting over it. I am guessing they have reached market saturation with how many mobile developer seats they are going to sell and realized that if they wish to grow they need to take a bite out of the higher end market. Though it does worry me that they said they only implemented directx 11 because it is needed for the windows mobile platform. Unity 4 was a huge step in the right direction with directx 11 and mechanim. Honestly mechanim looks to be the best commercially available real time character animation engine out there, and the directx 11 competition yielded some really amazing entries, especially in particle effects and real time GI solutions. That one guy who got voxel cone tracing up and going in 3 days was truly amazing, it wasn't polished but it was clearly working and just needing a bit more time.

I haven't seen much ultrasharp graphics in Unity yet, but i like the smooth and very consistent graphics style almost all good Unity productions have a lot.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsIkNrRUMEg[/youtube-hd]

On the other side, those who try to look photorealistic, almost all first person Unity shooters i've seen fail somehow. The graphics engine seems perfect for VR adventures, RPG's and other more artistic oriented genres.

all this talk about Unity or UDK or whatever engine, is just so useless.

When it really comes down to it, you'll find a way to make the game that you want. Remember, the tools you use to make the game don't make you make the game. It's your skills on how you apply and make it.

Basically, it similar to all the discussions people making games before there were UNITY and UDK... it was about programming languages. People were like oh, should I learn basic ? or should I do C+ or should I do Java.

All these languages and engines have their strength and weaknesses. If you are beginner, I suggest you choose one and stick to it for at least a couple of demos. Try it out, and see you if like it. No point in jumping from one engine to the next.

It's also like asking if I should use a pen or pencil for drawing. Both have the merits, but you still have to know how to draw .

langmyersknow wrote:all this talk about Unity or UDK or whatever engine, is just so useless.

langmyersknow wrote: All these languages and engines have their strength and weaknesses.

Which is why it is far from useless to discuss the various engines available, they are not identical, if they were, then it would be useless to discuss them.

Off course comparing engines is obviously very important, to chose one according to your needs and skills...
But it's not the place...
--> Unity and UDK thread

GeraldT wrote:I think the ambitious hobbyist will enjoy UDK, it is the "casual" hobbyist with enough spare cash that will likely still go for Unity.

My reason for looking at UDK is the option to use hardware physx - even if that means I can only bring my games to Nvidia system it would also mean I could finally go crazy on the physics.

And that looks pretty good bob - are those free assets that come with UDK?

This is not the place for the reasons, but many people prefer AMD hardware. I hope you will provide a software fallback, as these people won't change brand just to play your game.

Mystify wrote:This extra progress is what I am trying to get a ballpark estimate of; is it worth the investment to have more progress?

I suppose that depends on a person's situation. For some it is a lot of money, others wouldn't waste time to pick it off the floor unless they needed something to wipe there arse with.


EDIT: Drifter, yup I should have posted to that thread. Couldn't find it though. Lack of sleep...

bobv5 wrote:

GeraldT wrote:I think the ambitious hobbyist will enjoy UDK, it is the "casual" hobbyist with enough spare cash that will likely still go for Unity.

My reason for looking at UDK is the option to use hardware physx - even if that means I can only bring my games to Nvidia system it would also mean I could finally go crazy on the physics.

And that looks pretty good bob - are those free assets that come with UDK?

This is not the place for the reasons, but many people prefer AMD hardware. I hope you will provide a software fallback, as these people won't change brand just to play your game.

The whole reason to go for UDK would be to implement physx so extreme, that I can go completely crazy - maybe even make a secondary GPU just for Physx necessary. The idea would not be to create a game that can be played by everyone, but a game that would use physx to the extend of what is doable. So no software fallback, then I could just stay with Unity.

The games I am currently working on are games to pay the rent, the game I am thinking of there is one that won't but instead would be crazy with VR.

Unity 3.5 Integration

petergiokaris wrote:It's Pete over at Oculus. A lot of people have been asking about Unity 3.5 support (our official Unity integration is for Unity 4), so I took some time over the weekend to put together an unofficial Unity 3.5 integration package using Unity 3.5.7. Note that this is an unofficial integration sample, but it should let all the Unity 3.5 users get started with the Rift!

Download Package: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/d ... .php?id=23

THanks J. h4t3d, i just found that too.
Strange there were no more people complaining about unity 3.5 not supporting the Rift...

Well, it seems that you CAN use the sixense SDK in unity indy : http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/56013- ... Unity-free
Just did the test, and the DllNotFoundException disappears when i put the sixense DLL in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\Unity\Editor" (unity 4.1.2)
Cannot test further since i still don't have received my Hydra. It would be great if someone could confirm this

Hi,
I've been trying to understand the best way to create an avatar that's best suited to Razer Hydra hand movements in unity4 Pro

I'm simply trying to figure out the best development pipeline for my avatar... I'd like to be able to see his feet walking, and body... Is it possible to use Unity4 Mecanim. As it's clearly the way forward in terms of animating in Unity. There's a Unity4 mecanim IK scene .. I'm wondering if this could be connected to the Razer hand controllers

My ideal setup is a scenario where I can pull the camera back to 3rd person perspective & then push back in to a 1st person perspective.

Perhaps someone has a simple character setup scene they can share that would help me to better understand the rigging process required in Unity.

I could simply import my character from Maya but then I couldn't use the Hydra controller for the hands.... maybe I could if I were to remove the hands in Maya first . & use the stock Hydra hands... hhmm ??

note: I've already created several Unity4 scenes with Razer Hydra hands.. closing fingers etc... its an amazing feeling to flex the hands in front of the screen ( can't wait for my Rift to arrive) but I 'm really interested in moving to the next level and see my Avatar's feet walking & torso.
I managed to apply an I.K script that allows for arms & wrist movement that are attached to the Hydra hands.. but I would prefer to hook this into Mecanim... if that's even possible ?

Has anyone created a walking, head rotating, hand gesturing character yet ? (similar to The Gallery ) If so what's the best approach ?

If it's any help here 's my current list of assets that I hope will come in handy along the way

• Megafiers + MegaShapes
  PoolManager4
  Big Enviroment Pack
  A*
  Ai Made Easy
  NGUI
  + Leap Motion Dev Kit v6
  
  I use Maya a lot so can easily develop a decent character & rig him using the human IK but once again I need to hook this up to the Hydra.

As far as I could tell, they already use the mecanim system for the sixense avatar. There's no reason you couldn't proceed to set up your Animator controller around a full body avatar.

Just watch Unity's official Mecanim tutorial while following along.

The Sixesne avatar is only hands.. decapitated hands floating in the air...... or do you mean the Avatar used in The Gallery ?

mickman wrote:The Sixesne avatar is only hands.. hands floating in the air......

The hands use Unity's new mecanim, it's just that the avatar is not configured as humanoid (with ik and stuff), just as a generic animation. Right now it's actually pretty basic, just switching between bone animations while the buttons are pressed. It rarely deals with any values.

For the actual spatial positioning, it does kind of hide it behind the SixenseObjectController script. One thing you can do is just get manual values using SixenseInput script and apply them to the hands in your mecanim humanoid via manual positioning, or if you want to cheat, you can make invisible hands and have the avatar's hand ik point to them, but continue to use another animator controller catch the button input via script so you can control the fingers that way.

There's not much difference in how you make the character. Its the same with legacy animations in pre-4.0 Unity. Just make your character with Maya, set it up with humanik, and import it into Unity. Set up the avatar from there in the mecanim system. It's all just making sure the character muscles limit and deform the way you like.

Then set up an Animator Controller with variables and other animations, and control it by script. Configure the right masks for your animations. I haven't done the legwork yet as I'm not at that point in my project, so I have no examples, but off the top of my head, that would be the way to go about it.

------

Basically, you can start making your character in Maya with human ik without worrying about Unity's process. Unity's mecanim tutorial is pretty straightforward after that.

DFP: I really appreciate your feedback.

I'll take a look into setting up my character over the next few days... Once I have something half decent I'll post a short video... it's always fun to see how other developers are progressing. I feel a really good addition would be a video tutorial explaining each task from Maya > Unity > Mecanim > Razer & finally into the Rift

The main thing I'm worried about is I.K arms.. But after watching the Mecanim I.K sample scene I sort of get it now.. I could understand arm rotation/elbow bending in Unity with two separate primitive objects working a simple I.K arm but one object that's skinned and reacts to weighted vertices was worrying me. But hey, it all sounds as though mecanim was built for precisely this sort of dynamic motion, so time to give it a whirl

I think it best I create simplified a pre-vis run..... a blocked out character to begin with.. I'll create a primitive character in Maya, rig & skin it. Then pull into Unity, add mecanim then map the Hydra .... any tips on mapping Hydra ? SImply stating "add mecanim" is an understatement as I know it'll be an effort.
I'll start up a thread at Sixense too ... might get some interest in the development cycle.

What I think would b neat is the ability to flick between hand control and foot control.. so for example you look down at your feet... you can wave your hands about etc.. and then hit a "transfer motion " button on the hydra & you transfer all motion to the legs, kicking, dancing etc... that would be fun

Hhhhmm.. gets me thinking about my dream skeletal controller a.k.a - Hydra hand controllers + foot sensors

quit dreaming and start developing.... its so easy to waste the day-dreaming .......

Time to Get Real & CREATE

If you're capable of making the actual character, I would do that and work from that instead of a placeholder. Mecanim can still be tricky and it may be hard to accurately transfer animations between avatars/models. I've had situations where if a character was aiming a gun, on another avatar the arm would strike streight through the elbow instead. It's really weird and I don't really know why that happens. It could have to do with other factors like how the joints are oriented before skinning.

I've actually been writing an interactive eBook right now that takes a simple VR game project from A to Z using Maya/Unity4/Photoshop, but it won't be ready for awhile.

cTool wrote:Well, it seems that you CAN use the sixense SDK in unity indy : http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/56013- ... Unity-free
Just did the test, and the DllNotFoundException disappears when i put the sixense DLL in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\Unity\Editor" (unity 4.1.2)
Cannot test further since i still don't have received my Hydra. It would be great if someone could confirm this

It sure does. http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=17080

vannoo67 wrote:

cTool wrote:Well, it seems that you CAN use the sixense SDK in unity indy : http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/56013- ... Unity-free
Just did the test, and the DllNotFoundException disappears when i put the sixense DLL in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\Unity\Editor" (unity 4.1.2)
Cannot test further since i still don't have received my Hydra. It would be great if someone could confirm this

It sure does. http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=17080

Yes, just received my Hydra and it works well. And we can use the package from the asset store.

But just found out the IK is Pro only, and mecanim doesn't seems to let me "get" the bones, so it seems we can't do manual IK T_T.

I will probably switch back to the UDK.

Ignorant question-

Has the 3 month free Unity trial for Rift owners started already?

If so, are new Rift owners able to start it right away, or what's the process?

in general, you have a code for unity trials, and you enter it and the period starts. Some trials (like the ludum dare trial) have a fixed expiration date, others have a fixed timespan that starts when you activate.

Thanks- I realized I didn't ask my question as clearly as I should have:

People are already getting codes and starting their 3 month trials?

Are the codes arriving with the Rift, or is there a process to get them once you have your Rift?

xhonzi wrote:Thanks- I realized I didn't ask my question as clearly as I should have:

People are already getting codes and starting their 3 month trials?

Are the codes arriving with the Rift, or is there a process to get them once you have your Rift?

I don't think so. I've had my Rift since April and I've not had any communication about the Unity 'xtra 3 months' code.
The last time the question was asked the answer was 'we're looking into how to distribute that' I've not seem anything since.