Head Tracking/Gun controller help and suggestions required!!

Post by **Okta** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:54 pm

I started playing with strapping a wiimote to my chest for jogging and leaning to move but didnt have much success. If you were to go all out with 4 wiimotes im sure you could make something fun.

Post by **pierreye** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:16 am

@Okta - Can we try strapping 2 wiimote, each for both legs and detect the angle for walking motion? If we detect the pitch angle changes using the delta function we can figure out if walking to front or back. Also larger delta will determine run function than walk.

I try to email TN Games regarding shipment to Malaysia but no reply for 3 days. Looks like they are not interested in selling the vest and I can imagine crap support from them.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:51 am

pierreye wrote: I try to email TN Games regarding shipment to Malaysia but no reply for 3 days. Looks like they are not interested in selling the vest and I can imagine crap support from them.

yeah they are not good at replying to emails

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:52 am

@pierreye: Support from TN Games is the worst. Most of the games they claim work don't, and they don't respond to emails at all.

Post by **pierreye** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:11 pm

I give up on TN Games. Don't think they will survive in coming few years based on their support and response (none). Also, their console support announce last year looks like vaporware.

Also, received an email from Asus and their tech mention they don't support 60hz but I doubt their tech really try it out. Here's the reply.

Dear Valued Customer,
Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
Unfortunately it only can support 1080p@24HZ, it can't support 60Hz.

For more information feel free to refer to our self-help pages by clicking
the links below:
Troubleshooting -
http://support.asus.com/troubleshooting ... uage=en-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
FAQ - http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?SLanguage=en-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Live Support - http://livesupport.asus.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you continue to experience issues in the future, please do not hesitate
to contact us.

Best Regards,

Jerry

ASUS Customer Service

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:29 pm

I think it supports more than that. See this press release from Amimon (they provide the chips for Asus):

WHDI includes support for all 3D formats required by the HDMI™ 1.4a specification and range of over 100 feet (30 meters) through obstacles and walls.

http://www.amimon.com/pr20110323.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **pierreye** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:24 pm

I compare the price for ASUS WAVI and seems like Amazon.de (Germany) is the cheapest at around Euro 175 and Amazon.co.uk around 153 pound but the problem they don't ship to Malaysia. Ebay from Taiwan is around USD 300.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:55 pm

Seems that the libraries for the Wiimote are not as mature as I would have thought. Most of the projects have since been abandoned, so they don't support newer stuff like the built-in MotionPlus. I'm really surprised, you'd think there would be tons of stuff for this but I guess people have moved onto newer things like the Kinect. The one library that looks recent (WiiC) is Mac/Linux only. I found one for Windows, WiiYourself, but it seems to be abandoned and doesn't work exactly right. So I will either have to fix this library or port the other one to Windows. Arrgg!!! This is going to be a little harder than I thought.

Post by **Okta** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:18 pm

Wow in that wii yourself he is using separate gun tracking

http://www.vimeo.com/673831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:10 pm

Okta wrote:Wow in that wii yourself he is using separate gun tracking

http://www.vimeo.com/673831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think that's because he had the source code for the game (looks like its based on Quake). Its much harder if you want to do this with just any commercial game.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:36 am

I just tried out the Battlefield 3 Beta, the Buttkicker works beautifully with it btw! but I just realised unless you avoid jumping in any vehicles in that game it is more of a sit down FPS than stand up for VR as I think you will lose most of your immersion when you jump in a vehicle and have to steer it with the gun in your hand

(and it is easy to spend half the time in vehicles) with the excepton of the smaller maps whitout vehicles in which case stand up VR would be all good.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:00 pm

Man, finally got it working! Spent the whole weekend even just to get the Wii Motion+ and Nunchuk to work properly on the command-line. Now I just have to integrate this into my mouse emulation app. And I've got a gaming laptop coming tomorrow. Shouldn't be too long before I've got my stand-up VR setup functional.

Post by **fireslayer26** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:35 pm

Pierreye- I'm loving your gun setup. That is exactly what I want to do. Do you now have the Move Navigator working fully? Is the gun setup full 360 movement? What are you using to attach the wiimote to the top of the gun? Which BT dongles did you use to get everything working?

Thanks,
William

Post by **pierreye** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:06 pm

@William - I managed to integrate the MOVE Navigator and remove the Nunchuk. You need to get the right bluetooth dongle for MotionInJoy. Get the recommended bluetooth dongle from MotionInJoy associated website (Accygame.com) that I confirm working with both PS3 Move and PS3 Navigator. The holder that you see on top of the Sharpshooter is a 3.5" External HDD holder. The size is just nice for Wiimote controller.

You can get the latest script from my previous post for 360 degree gaming.

Happy gaming.

@cybereality - Once you get your gaming laptop, please let us know how it feel gaming in VR1200 with Wiimote+. The important criteria I'm looking at is the 360 degree freedom with just the gun controller feel natural without head tracking?

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:46 pm

@pierreye: I will be sure to share my experience, probably make a video too at some point. I think it could work with gun tracking alone, though I doubt it will be as immersive. The holy grail is obviously having independent gun and head-tracking. So the closer we get to that, the better. However it doesn't mean any steps in between those points are worthless.

Post by **fireslayer26** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:21 am

@pierreye- Thanks for your great work. I can't wait to pair this up with one of the new HMD's coming out. This will finally provide some truely immersive gaming!

PS- Could you also post a quick how-to on how to get the gun up and running? How and when to run each program, etc?

Thanks,
William

Post by **lllJameslll** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:25 pm

I eventually managed to get both the PS controllers and the wii mote connected to the PC today, I had some trouble with Motionjoy taking over all my bluetooth adapters but then after multiple system restores I realised it was just me assigning all the drivers in the motionjoy list rather than just the one dongle and the pads.

If you live outside the US and dont want to order through the motionjoy site I can confirm that the Nexus Bluenano Pro Bluetooth Dongle works very well for the connection of both the move and navigation controllers. I bought mine from ebay uk for about £3.50. Also the ASUS USB-BT211 Mini Bluetooth Dongle is suppose to work well, I purchased this also but am using it for the wii mote and havnt personally tested it yet. It seems like for PS pad connectivity the v2.1 Bluetooth with EDR are the dongles to go for.

I have made my wii sharpshooter using a hacked up wii gun and started to look through the script pierreye has made. Im new to programming so I have been going through some glovepie tutorials on youtube, they are quite usefull if anyone is interested. I was going to try and modify and test it in the Battlefield 3 beta but it ended a day earlier than I thought so Im going to try it out in Bad company 2 instead. I will let you all know how I get on but it may take a bit as Im stuck for time atm.

@ pierreye, when you go to calibrate the wii mote do you put it on its side as I have seen videos with people calabrating them that way or is it just down normally with the buttons facing skyward? I did it skywards and it controlled my mouse on the desktop well.

In your script you have a recentering function which you have mentioned works well, is this just a function of the COD game or is it part of the script so it will it work in other FPS's. If it is just in COD do you think it is needed for smooth play and if so how easily do you think it would be to do as part of the script rather than game specific.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:03 pm

I've given up on some of the gestures with my Hydra gun. Without writing a driver wrapper, I dont see how i'm going to make it detect move forward, tilt left, etc, when i'm facing the opposite direction to what it wants.

I've solved the problems for now by unbinding most of the gestures apart from 'gun up 90' and 'gun down 90' since these work fine no matter what orientation. Am thinking that it would be easier for me to just add a wiimote just to do the gesture support, or go totally wiimote + motion plus for the gun. Might dig out my wiimote this week if i get a chance, and compare both setups. One thing I do like about the Hydra setup, is no having to stuff around with glovepie etc...

Post by **pierreye** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:49 am

@ fireslayer26 - Here's the step by step connection for Wii Sharpshooter.
One time installation.
1. Install MotionInJoy first and bind one of your compatible bluetooth USB dongle to load the driver.
2. Connect your Navigator first using USB and pair with your dongle.
3. Connect your Move using USB and pair with your dongle.
4. Insert your second bluetooth USB dongle for Wiimote connection.

1. Press the "PS" button on Navigator first. Once the light is solid, preess the "PS" button on Move.
2. Open DSTool for motionInJoy and press "Enable Button" to activate the analog stick on Navigator.
3. You can open Joystick Control Panel to verify both controller is connected.
4. Load GlovePIE and open my script. Click on "Run" to start the script.
5. Press both "1" and "2" button on wiimote to connect to your PC.
6. Put the wiimote face down on a stable flat surface (table or floor).
7. Once calibration is done, make sure no drift on Pitch and Yaw data when the remote is put on the table.
8. Mount your wiimote on the sharpshooter and play.

@James - When I calibrate the MotionPlus, I always put the controller face down on the table. Make sure it is stable and not moving when calibration is started. The recentering function basically scan the pitch of your wiimote. If it is within +/- 1 degree, it will automatically press the "C" key. I bind the "C" key to center view command in MW2. I don't think this function exist in all FPS game. For example, I try Bad Company 2 but can't find this function key. I also bind the "C" key to Navigator "L1" button which also temp disable the mouse movement. In this case, for those game that doesn't support "center view", you just make sure your view is center, press and hold "L1" and manually align your gun to horizontal position and release "L1" button.

Post by **fireslayer26** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:57 am

Great! Thanks for the write-up. So 1-4 is only done the first time, and 1-8 is done before each gameplay correct? Also, do you have a link so the same 3.5" external HDD mount that you use?

Thanks and keep up the great work!!

Post by **cybereality** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:56 pm

So my laptop has arrived. Just got a chance to test it out last night. Older games seem to run great, like HL2:Ep1, L4D, UT3, etc. getting easily over 120FPS in 2D on Low/Medium settings (so I assume 60Hz 3D will be good). Gonna try some newer games tonight. Might have to wait til the weekend to get the full VR setup going, as I will need to finish adding Wii support to my mouse emulator. Its almost working, but I just have to sit down with it for a few hours. Man, I really want to try this already!

Post by **mAchiNE** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:43 pm

Awesome Cyber!, sounds like you almost got your full freedom VR up and running I look foward to your feedback about the experience of using it

I am curious about what the Specs are of the Laptop you bought for this setup?

Post by **cybereality** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:23 pm

Specs are as follows:
Lenovo Y570: i5-2410M 2.3-2.9 GHz, 4GB DDR3 RAM, Nvidia 555M w/ 1GB, 750GB HDD, Blu-Ray/DVD Combo, HDMI out, Bluetooth.

Got a killer deal though for $650 on a refurb. Looks new to me. The laptop is not high-end, but I think it will be enough. I mostly test with older titles like HL2, L4D, UT004, etc. so I don't need a powerhouse. Also trying to save some money so I can get the HMZ-T1 at some point (probably not at launch though). Nvidia claims the Lenovo is 3D Vision supported, but I know some users had issues installing the driver, so it was something of a gamble. Gotta bring it to work to test since I don't have a 3D HDTV at home to test with. Hopefully it will work, but even if not, I can still use it with the 1200VR which was my main objective.

Post by **pierreye** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:47 pm

@fireslayer26 - Yes. Just repeat step 1-8 everytime you want to play game. The holder is just from generic brand external HDD casing. The stand should be quite similar in size for most external 3.5" HDD.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:45 am

@Cyber
Sounds good, should be more than enough for most games other then Battlefield, might have to run at low settings in some newer games in 3D though.
I can't see there being a problem with getting Nvidia 3D TV play to work with the laptop, the people who had problems were probably trying to use the 3D Vision driver

Post by **fireslayer26** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:43 pm

@Pierreye- Any new videos of your system in use?

Post by **pierreye** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:46 pm

fireslayer26 wrote:@Pierreye- Any new videos of your system in use?

Minor changes, just Nunchuk to Navigator only . I'll make another video once I got the Sony HMD. Just bought an Energizer XP18000 and will try out with 12v DC ADSL router to see if it work. Next thing to get is ASUS WAVI.

Post by **fireslayer26** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:29 am

pierreye wrote:
fireslayer26 wrote:@Pierreye- Any new videos of your system in use?
Minor changes, just Nunchuk to Navigator only . I'll make another video once I got the Sony HMD. Just bought an Energizer XP18000 and will try out with 12v DC ADSL router to see if it work. Next thing to get is ASUS WAVI.

Awesome! Looking forward to it!

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:03 pm

So I got the Wiimote functionality basically working on my app. Using the Motion+ to aim the gun, and the Nunhuck stick for WASD. Was able to test L4D for a little while using the 1200VR headtracking, and the Wiimote for gun control, Nunchuk for movement. It actually worked pretty well. Having to turn around to look actually adds a lot of immersion, as I expected. Combined with the gun tracking it really does work well. Unfortunately I was still wired to my PC (haven't hooked it up to the laptop yet). But I had the turning at about 2 or 3:1, so I didn't get too tangled up with the wires. It will be a lot better once I get the laptop setup properly.

Also, I will need to utilize more buttons, as some key ones are missing right now (for example E to use). I could use the face buttons on the Wiimote (1, 2, etc.) but they are a little hard to get to when in the gun peripheral. I could try to add gesture support for the Nunchuk, but this will probably take more time.

Post by **pierreye** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:47 pm

I suggest you go for Sharpshooter with Navigator. Previously I face the contraint of not enough button too but going for Navigator with extra buttons (you get an extra d-pad and 2 more buttons) make it easier. Button on top of wiimote would be difficult to press when in heavy fighting as wearing the HMD, we can't see where the button is.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:44 pm

Well I like the Wiimote Motion+ for the gun. Its a good size/weight and the gun shell I have is pretty cool. But for the navigation I am not married to the Nunchuk. I really would like a lot more buttons than the Nunhuck has, for example "use", "flashlight", "sprint", "duck", "jump", "alt fire" "switch weapons" plus a button to let me recenter the gun view (ie "rachet"). So 2 buttons on the Nuncheck just don't cut it. Will probably pick up the Sony Move Navigation controller, as it seems to be more useful and is also pretty cheap.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:15 pm

So I got to finally try out the stand-up VR setup. Got a mesh backpack, so the laptop could breathe. Also got the Rii Mini bluetooth keyboard, so I could work with the laptop while it was in the bag. Well, so far so good. It still had some kinks, but I can already see the potential. Standing up and being able to turn around did add a lot to the immersion, and also to somewhat compensate for the small FOV (on the 1200VR). The headtracking did give an illusion of space. And holding the gun, and having it rumble, also increased immersion. In terms of software, I need to work out some bugs. The nunchuk only partially worked (forward was down and things like that) and I couldn't get the games I really wanted (L4D/HL2) to work in 3D. But I think this setup will be worthwhile once all the issues are ironed out.

Post by **bobv5** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:35 pm

You guy's interested in adding recoil to these controllers? The electronics won't be too hard, the mechanics, not difficult, but strong recoil needs lots of power. The way I see it is that weak recoil is better than none.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:11 pm

I'm working on that at the moment, I aill post my progress this weekend when i get some more time to play around with my circuit, FYI it will be audio based and can be made wireless but level of force will be greatly reduced on a wireless version (due to low amp battery),.

Post by **bobv5** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:24 pm

Any info would be great. I'm thinking a micro-controller with op-amp frequency filter. Trigger on peaks of a certain freq, when the trigger is pressed, and it doesn't match the music. But many possibility’s.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:26 pm

I have a recoil prototype, uses a big heavy stack of washers in modified electric airsoft gun. I attached the washers around the firing tube, so as soon as you pull the trigger, a heavy duty spring pushes it forward really fast, and the geared electric motor pulls it back. Right now, it is getting about 3 shots per second, so not really useful for automatic weapons.

I am looking into more expensive, higher powered automatic airsoft guns. Right now, the only problem is the low firing speed, but for non-auto weapons, it gives a LOT of kick. Heck, with a high powered enough mechanism/heavy enough washers, it can probably be somewhere around the force of a real handgun!

Post by **mAchiNE** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:44 pm

@bobv5
My current setup is a simple voltage switch hooked up to a 3.5watt amp with a highpass crossover on it, preliminary tests show proof of concept works, the problem we will have with using set frequencys is the gun shot sound from various weapons is not the same, i.e. in my test the assult rifle triggered perfectly but the pistol would not trigger at all until the voltage switch whas adjusted to be so sensitive that it picked up any loud sound, I am still learing about audio circuits and I think my setup is triggering based on volume not frequency. I have another idea about using LEDs and Photo resistors but I will have to play with that to see if it will work

@Palmer
I plan to use a electric airsoft pistol with "blowback": but this will only work for semi auto. for an assult rifle I think using solenoids with weights is a much better option (providing we can make the audio circuit to trigger it work properly) because the recoil frequency will more closely match the the in game shots and also it might be possible to vary the amount of force for the recoil as well (like on the novint falcon) depends on how advanced the audio circiut pickup is. Although one thing an electric airsof gun has is the recoil is actually made from compressed air powered by a low voltage compressor so maybe we can get a higher force recoil for less power but I think the extra weight will always slow down the firing mechanisim,did you try to add a spring (or more powerful spring if there is not one) to the firing mechanisim to reset quicker with the extra weight?

Post by **PalmerTech** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:55 pm

Actually, with how my gun works, the spring is the part that provides the recoil force. The geared motor just pulls back the firing plunger/washers, and once it pulls all the way back, it releases again. Really cheap gun.

I doubt the weak, puny motor/plastic gears can handle pulling back a more powerful spring. So in my case, the recoil is all spring, no air power.

A more expensive gun with metal gears will have a much stronger motor and spring, and a faster firing rate, too.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:02 pm

I think the ari compressor kind is top of the line and would give longer battery life, but also cost a small fortune just for the airsoft gun! thats another reason I am going with solenoids, can get them for $5-$30 (depending on wattage) and a cheap airsoft gun for a shell for another $50-$100. vs high end arisoft gun $400-$1500

Post by **PalmerTech** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:06 pm

Let me know how your solenoids go, I would love to know if you can get strong ones firing fast enough. There are some arcade game guns that use solenoids for recoil, but they are all semi auto (Big Game Hunter has one, for example). If you can get them firing full auto, that would be pretty great!

I am going to keep messing around with electric airsoft guns, but very interested in your solenoid project, especially since my recoil cannot be easily varied in power.