RifTUP! FullHD Oculus DK1 upgrade kit

[Kernel32]

Well it looks like palmer has done a good deal to source Samsung OLED.
The replacement market must have some ridiculous markup probably a lot more
than 100 per cent. Otherwise oculus must be losing on each developer kit.
...

Oculus HW order quantities and resources are very different than our capabilities. BTW i think, even at 60 000+ quantities, they are going close to none markup, just to get DKs out and ignite much larger consumer business. At least that is what I would do.

Project update:
We are preparing a quick crowd-funding campaign to reach as many Rifters as possible and hopefully collect enough funds to finance line manufacturing slot and larger quantities of HW components. Doing so will allow price well under 300 USD.

As it's possible to manually solder those boards right now, the costs are approx. double, mainly due labor. That is still very good for such an advanced prototype product, but generally way too much.

Mr. Rozsnyo will post campaign start time tomorrow. I truly believe this project is to succeed with your help. Thank your for the great support.

Only the board, without the screen, at 300 ?

Complete kit inc. both boards, frame, screen etc.

[Ryuuken24]

The campaign was today, wasn't it? What is going on? I keep refreshing, nothing shows up.

[rozsnyo]

Back from shooting the video - tired as hell. We have agreed to have it finalized by Wednesday - and that day (or night) will the campaign start. We did a little experiment here, which will make sense few weeks later. @OzOnE2k10 might knew instantly, others will see it in the campaign.

[john770gtx]

The display boards finally do work! There is now a very long list of bugs which has to be fixed with a new board revision.

The breakout board does have some serious differential line issue - probably the 2 layer board is a no go here... holding my finger over the 4 pairs does render the intended setup operable, but placing an adhesive shielding metallic foil has no effect at all. It is strange, as there is a bunch of wires coming out from the cable which are very tolerant to whatever I do with them. I have to sort this out - hopefully this week and then we can finally sell.

I'm sorry for entering this thread as complete noob and not reading every page but I skimmed through alot of it to get a general gist of what's going on here but my main question is, is the kickstarter that you're creating for a complete HMD with these two screens in portrait mode as an HMD?

[john770gtx]

We are not using 2 screen designs - where have I stated that? We are using 2 boards - the BASE and HEAD, for seamless update (no ugly cables, no cutting). If you see the PCB layout/drawing for RiftUP in earlier posts, there is clearly a clue that we use one screen in landscape mode. The photo of the 2 screens shows only the first 2 very expensive prototypes out of 3 which we made. Two were sold to a VR startup company which payed an adequate express fee to have them - they are taking it to GDC, third is for @kernel32 with whom we will market the RiftUPs.

Nevermind I got my answer. This entire thread is a waste of time for me considering I sold my Oculus Rift and I can buy a new one cheaper on eBay now if this RiftUP or whatever it is you're kickstarting is worth buying. What a bummer. If your other partners in this thread (can't really tell due to the lack of an organized place like the kickstarter where I can tell who is working with you or whatever) are willing to release that assembly in autocad that would be pretty sweet for that dual screen setup.

[rozsnyo]

I'm sorry for entering this thread as complete noob and not reading every page but I skimmed through alot of it to get a general gist of what's going on here but my main question is, is the kickstarter that you're creating for a complete HMD with these two screens in portrait mode as an HMD?

It is an upgrade kit for DK1. Replaces the screen and the controller, you still need all the plastics and boxes from DK1. It is single screen type.

[john770gtx]

I'm sorry for entering this thread as complete noob and not reading every page but I skimmed through alot of it to get a general gist of what's going on here but my main question is, is the kickstarter that you're creating for a complete HMD with these two screens in portrait mode as an HMD?

It is an upgrade kit for DK1. Replaces the screen and the controller, you still need all the plastics and boxes from DK1. It is single screen type.

Just a personal question because I'm not too savvy on resolution and stuff but if I downloaded and 3d printed an assembly for the dual screen display setup would the difference in resolution be worth it? How much different is it from just 1 screen? Sorry I'm asking stupid questions but I'm really excited by what's going on here lol.

Like how much better relative to the DK1 would each respective screen give me in resolution? Would I be able to see things in the distance in games?

[SaltySalmon]

So what I understand from the previous posts is the computer will not detect the oculus as an oculus after the replacement? Will the accelerometer and etc still function with oculus enabled programs? Will the programs even be able to enable oculus mode?

[john770gtx]

So what I understand from the previous posts is the computer will not detect the oculus as an oculus after the replacement? Will the accelerometer and etc still function with oculus enabled programs? Will the programs even be able to enable oculus mode?

You just have to spoof the EDID to make the display show up as the OR. Honestly it wouldn't really matter that much if you're using a third party driver like Tridef but for native implementation like in HL2 it might be necessary. I don't know how that's going to work with the dual screen setup though, that might be a little more challenging.

[rozsnyo]

So what I understand from the previous posts is the computer will not detect the oculus as an oculus after the replacement? Will the accelerometer and etc still function with oculus enabled programs? Will the programs even be able to enable oculus mode?

Where did you get that feeling? We ARE playing games in Oculus mode with the upgraded units. The only thing which does not work is the "runtime setting of IPD" inside the games. Games from one vendor/group offer setting it by the Oculus utility - that is possible to change outside of game and it works. Other rely on manual adjustment inside the game - and this is the last piece which does not work (these games run with default IPD and the setting keys do not work).

[kavanagao]

One of the key datasheets for these displays is the driver IC (COG, a long thin metallic strip
that is actually a chip conductively-clued onto glass: chip on glass) just
above the FOG (flexi on glass). For most of the fhd (1920x 1080 - 1200) this is the
renesas r63311.

Having done a hard troll I have come across this Chinese download page.

http://www.ttjj.org/detail/u011883254/6036925

It purports to have a 4.23 meg sized pdf spec with a download button.
But the download button sends a downloader setup exe 'KAVSETUPS_66_82447.exe', which on checking
is referred to by a dehacker program as a trogan datalogger etc. Now I don't
know which one is the rouge.

So has anyone used this site, who obviously reads Chinese? And if so, would
you help this community out by retrieving it. ... please

Just saw your post. i can read chinese, but cant find the pdf on this page.just can download the wrong file"KAVSETUPS_66_82447.exe"

;
;

there are 1080p MIPI lcd controller /test board on market,some have hdmi input.
have hdmi input for oculus rift: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21 ... =&sku=&ug=
http://list.taobao.com/itemlist/default ... rset=utf-8

[OzOnE2k10]

Back from shooting the video - tired as hell. We have agreed to have it finalized by Wednesday - and that day (or night) will the campaign start. We did a little experiment here, which will make sense few weeks later. @OzOnE2k10 might knew instantly, others will see it in the campaign.

Exciting stuff.

@rozsnyo - what are your thoughts on the announcement of the DK2?
I'm tempted to pre-order one, but I can't help thinking it's still not perfected because the positional tracking apparently won't work too well if you turn around 180-degrees?

As far as I can tell, the DK2 is still 1080p, but uses a 75Hz OLED panel with backlight strobing.

I still want to get a RiftUP kit of course, but it's a shame about the timing of the Oculus announcement.

Then again, the RiftUp kit will no doubt be available a LOT sooner than the DK2.
Judging by the DK1 deliveries, I expect the DK2 will still take many weeks to start shipping.


btw, don't worry about the EDID stuff, guys.
It's easy enough to spoof it so all the software will work OK.

The whole tracker has also been cloned by various people, so given the plastic housing and lenses, we could basically make our own Rift compatible HMD now.


@kavanagao

Those taobao links are great, but one of them says "Octopus Rift". lol


OzOnE.

[rozsnyo]

there are 1080p MIPI lcd controller /test board on market,some have hdmi input.
have hdmi input for oculus rift: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21 ... =&sku=&ug=
http://list.taobao.com/itemlist/default ... rset=utf-8

This is a chineese scam. The picture of the 7" screen is taken from here:
http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2014/01/20 ... ingmonday/

Anyway that post truly shows the nature of some/many Chineese people - Tony from Tonylabs seemed very interested in manufacturing for me some boards - and all what is he doing is copying solutions and trying to produce forged boards. But when issues arise, he is hopeless and comes back to ask for help. No wonder he was silent in last weeks and no longer responded to me on Skype.

As far as I can tell, the DK2 is still 1080p, but uses a 75Hz OLED panel with backlight strobing.

There is no such thing as backlight in an OLED panel. If you have seen an OLED you will notice the strobing effect as the pixels have no persistence at all. I have pointed out that at IBC on Sony's 30" 4K OLED to the japaneese manager - that I see the screen flickering. And then they said something to the technicians who tried to correct for in using the OSD menu of the monitor. LOL. They were very pissed that I saw the disadvantage of their product.

OLED is a very flickering thing and I rather expect that younger population WILL notice the refresh rate. It has same feeling as an CRT - the 75Hz is there to actually reduce the amount of strobing/flickering.

[Kernel32]

You just have to spoof the EDID to make the display show up as the OR. Honestly it wouldn't really matter that much if you're using a third party driver like Tridef but for native implementation like in HL2 it might be necessary. I don't know how that's going to work with the dual screen setup though, that might be a little more challenging.

You can play all games and experiences with USB connected and no HDMI/DVI DK1 cable. It just outputs video onto some other screen connected. (Your main monitor, RiftUP! etc.) You can try it right now with your DK1.

While this is OK, we are still working on more advanced Oculus SDK compatibility for production model.

[OzOnE2k10]

As far as I can tell, the DK2 is still 1080p, but uses a 75Hz OLED panel with backlight strobing.

There is no such thing as backlight in an OLED panel. If you have seen an OLED you will notice the strobing effect as the pixels have no persistence at all. I have pointed out that at IBC on Sony's 30" 4K OLED to the japaneese manager - that I see the screen flickering. And then they said something to the technicians who tried to correct for in using the OSD menu of the monitor. LOL. They were very pissed that I saw the disadvantage of their product.

OLED is a very flickering thing and I rather expect that younger population WILL notice the refresh rate. It has same feeling as an CRT - the 75Hz is there to actually reduce the amount of strobing/flickering.

Oh yes, of course. lol
Sorry, I hadn't woken up properly.

I am quite wary of some of the Chinese sellers too.
Even if the board itself looks good, there's no guarantee of them sending any details on the I2C / SPI configuration for the MIPI / HDMI / FPGA chips unless you buy their very expensive test platforms.


@Kernel32 - Yep, AFAIK, the Rift games / demos will display OK on the default monitor without the Rift plugged in.
It does need the tracker to be connected for a lot of stuff to work correctly though, but of course we can now spoof that as well in theory.

The EDID ID string of the DK1 just gives priority to the Rift display I think?

OzOnE.

[Kernel32]

@Kernel32 - Yep, AFAIK, the Rift games / demos will display OK on the default monitor without the Rift plugged in.
It does need the tracker to be connected for a lot of stuff to work correctly though, but of course we can now spoof that as well in theory.
...
OzOnE.

DK1 tracker is connected all the time via USB. It has nothing to do with HDMI/DVI video feed.

We can also supply DK-like trackers, but since you already have one in DK, there is no need. Maybe just for DIYs.

[OzOnE2k10]

@Kernel32 - Yep, AFAIK, the Rift games / demos will display OK on the default monitor without the Rift plugged in.
It does need the tracker to be connected for a lot of stuff to work correctly though, but of course we can now spoof that as well in theory.
...
OzOnE.

DK1 tracker is connected all the time via USB. It has nothing to do with HDMI/DVI video feed.

We can also supply DK-like trackers, but since you already have one in DK, there is no need. Maybe just for DIYs.

Yes, that's what I thought. EDID via HDMI/DVI not mandatory, but tracker via USB is needed for most Rift software.

The RiftUp kits will still work fine as a DK1 1080p upgrade of course, so owners of a DK1 need not worry too much - it will work fine.

I thought Daniel made provision for a custom EDID though? - have you tried just using an EDID string from the SDK for the Crystal Cove display?

Although, it doesn't really matter if the IPD adjustment keys won't work as this should be pre-set for each user anyway.

OzOnE.

[Attreyu]

Daniel, can you reply to my email ? I know you must be very busy atm, but maybe you can find 2 minutes...

[yetifrisstlama]

Hi, I have to say: excellent work on this!

Please note that at the moment, the "Oculus Configuration Utility" does not allow to carry out the Magnetometer calibration procedure, if the HMD (with the right EDID) is not connected.

Luckily that only needs to be done once and the original Rift can be connected for that purpose.

Cheers,
YFL

[john770gtx]

I decided on purchasing the DK2 over getting this because frankly, the cost would be so much higher since I would have to repurchase the DK1. I want to see how the OLED screen functions in general and I want to keep the DK2 for re-sale purchasing power like the DK1s are going for on ebay right now.

I will definitely be subscribed to this thread though, ros has some great skills when it comes to the custom display board fabrication

4k super amoled+ drop ins for CV1?
Hell yeah!!

[cgp44]

Regarding taobao
It must be a hell of an elaborate scam with all that electronics. At yuan to the dollar 8:1 they
are hell of a bargain. Whats the problem? I see it from an innovators point of view but...

Any page translation. I am wondering why the often occurring translation options don't show up.
I have brought from etradesupply.com, they are Chinese, good service, if at over 100 per cent markup.
Ah maybe they are Hong Kong, perhaps a big difference.

[Kernel32]

...
The RiftUp kits will still work fine as a DK1 1080p upgrade of course, so owners of a DK1 need not worry too much - it will work fine.

I thought Daniel made provision for a custom EDID though? - have you tried just using an EDID string from the SDK for the Crystal Cove display?

Although, it doesn't really matter if the IPD adjustment keys won't work as this should be pre-set for each user anyway.

OzOnE.

Thank you OzOnE for your toughts. We are moving as fast as we can on PnP ID and EDID right now. Is Crystal Cove PnP ID/EDID publicly known?

Daniel has been working very hard last few weeks, often overnight, but the situation is unsustainable and he really needs to get some sleep and at least some private/family time. I do what I can to take as much workload off him as possible, however most of it needs his attention. That said, RiftUP! is being worked on hard and is on the way.

On Wednesday/Thursday, it will be only up to you

Daniel, can you reply to my email ? I know you must be very busy atm, but maybe you can find 2 minutes...

Please contact me instead, there is a good chance I can help you or settle your matter personally.

Hi, I have to say: excellent work on this!

Please note that at the moment, the "Oculus Configuration Utility" does not allow to carry out the Magnetometer calibration procedure, if the HMD (with the right EDID) is not connected.

Luckily that only needs to be done once and the original Rift can be connected for that purpose.

Cheers,
YFL

Thank you yetifrisstlama. You are right, the original DK1 can be connected for that purpose or you can even connect both of them at once.

The odds are, we will have an easier solution by the time you receive your kits.

I decided on purchasing the DK2 over getting this because frankly, the cost would be so much higher since I would have to repurchase the DK1. I want to see how the OLED screen functions in general and I want to keep the DK2 for re-sale purchasing power like the DK1s are going for on ebay right now.

I will definitely be subscribed to this thread though, ros has some great skills when it comes to the custom display board fabrication

4k super amoled+ drop ins for CV1?
Hell yeah!!

Did you sell your DK1?

I bought a couple of DK2 for us too. But the way I see it, you don't have to pick either of them over the other.

RiftUP! will be there 4+ months earlier and will upgrade your DK1, that would otherwise sit in your drawer. Go for both

[cgp44]

Lets not get side tracked about rozsnyo's board as a DK2 competitor. The DK1 riftUP was always
an extra. What we are seeing here is the true working prototype of fhd mipi for DIYers.

So although it is tight with respect to a DK2, it gets rozsnyo in the VR market.

So I of course have pre-ordered DK2 and am hoping I will get one.
Lets all who have keenly followed this long thread, support a rare expert maker into production.

[OzOnE2k10]

@cgp44 - that's a good point.

The RiftUp was never intended as a competitor to the DK2, and I guess the release of the DK2 was inevitable (and previously announced).
I was just a tad surprised that they managed to put the DK2 together and get it tested so soon.

I still want a RiftUp kit for my DK1, which will give the best possible experience many months before the release of the DK2.

It will also ensure that all the current Rift games / demos will work with it.
(I imagine a fair number of existing games might need to be modified to work properly with positional tracking on the DK2?)

I'll grab a RiftUp when they're ready, and then I'll await for the reviews / feedback on the DK2 to see if it's worth the purchase.

I'm also hoping the positional tracking will help somewhat with motion sickness.
It's something I wasn't really expecting to get with the DK1, but I definitely experience it when strafing too much or moving too fast.

Can't wait to try a 1080p panel still.
I'll be trying it out on the family members again too - they were already impressed by the demos on the stock screen.


OzOnE.

[Ryuuken24]

The suspense is killing me! After the bad news about Oculus being acquired by Facebook, my soul left my body, then I realized there were still some hope left, so I came back. Terrible news. I don't even know why they couldn't wait until the CV1 was released. Money does move people to sell their dignity but, at least wait until your product is out, now we're in new company limbo. 2 billions dollars, wow, what are they going to do with it, build a space station?!

[leftbehind126]

I've got myself auto-F5'ing over here waiting for that kickstarter.

[leftbehind126]

Would you guys mind if I take a swing at the EDID problem? The boards are over my head, but software is more my thing.

[cgp44]

Eight pages of toy-tossing angst topics/threads over at oculusvr.com A lot of boys are going to
be miserable when they see others with their DK2. Eventually they will all get back in line.

The EDID stuff is basic fpga code, along with a i2c controller.

[rozsnyo]

The OculusSDK is quite a mess the way it is designed - it combines a monitor vendor and product code to detect the headset, but uses data from the tracker to know the size/resolution/distortion which is applied for the image rendering. Luckily, there is a source available, so new game releases can support RiftUP! in a clean way by use of a source code patch. For others.. there will be a binary patch, as the DK1 tracker keeps telling the SDK it is a 1280x800 device. Anyway, it is nice to see our RiftUP to appear in configuration tool as Oculus DK HD, and playing Valve's Team Fortress at 1080p. I think we are done on PC software side. Last things to solve is the actual use of buttons from the breakout box for brightness and so on..

Regarding the use of RiftUP for standalone DIY HMD - would be the hdmi orientation to up, at the center position (on nose) be a benefit ? (the way DK2 is built?) Or we keep it rather on side as it is now?

[Ryuuken24]

Rozsnyo, what is going on? Wasn't it this Wednesday the announcement?

[Kernel32]

On Wednesday/Thursday, it will be only up to you

Rozsnyo, what is going on? Wasn't it this Wednesday the announcement?

Indiegogo campaign for RiftUP! starts on Thursday 23:59 GMT.

Our video production team is working around the clock to make it in time. They have a lot of 4K video to process, so please bare with us. Sorry for keeping you wait, but it will be worth it.

About EDID and software compatibility; we've got working all the software (Oculus SDK based, ConfigUtil, Valve, injectors). But better than that, we can now actually add our HMD to SDK for perfect distortion, color compensation etc. to deliver first grade experience.

[cybereality]

That looks really nice!

[OzOnE2k10]

Wow!

I'm constantly impressed by the progress on the RiftUp.

Well done again guys. Looks like you have all the software stuff sorted out now.

I'll await the Indiegogo campaign for futher details.

I just put in an order for a DK2, but that will be a while before the full balance is taken.
So, I'll hopefully be able to afford a RiftUp kit as well.

I've almost got over the whole Facebook thing now, so I'm just waiting for the dust to settle. lol

I'm not really bothered about getting into the silly "heated debates" on some of the threads, so I'll just be enjoying my new RiftUp DK1 soon, and my DK2 in a few months.

Really impressed that the SDK details have been worked out, so it will give the best possible upgrade path.


Thanks for your work, guys.

OzOnE.

[Mozzie]

Edited subject name as requested by Kernel32.

Great work guys!!! Looks awesome.

[rozsnyo]

As I am quite a resolution freak - my other projects include 4K displays and 4K cameras, there is one thing I have noticed on DK2:

DK2 features an OLED display and the marketing bullshit around it keeps telling you that it has a resolution of 1920x1080, but that is not true. AFAIK there are no true RGB full-hd OLED screens on the market, there are only PenTile models, which means that there is 1920x1080 green subpixels, but only 960x1080 red and blue ones. The screen therefore offers 4.15Mpx (subpixels). Our FullHD true RGB screen in the RiftUP offers 6.22MPx (subpixels) and the old DK1 was at 2.76MPx (subpixels, and the value should be really only a portion of that, as I have not accounted for the used sub-area/crop).

Sidenote: not all of the pixels are actually used for image, but I assume that the shape and area-fill of the distorted image is in all scenarios approximately same.

[leftbehind126]

Wow it looks great! Glad to hear you got the id stuff worked out. Out of curiosity, did you guys use injection to get around the issue?

[Ryuuken24]

I don't think my eyes care about it not being full HD OLED. The Sony HMZ-T1 micro display is so beautiful, I don't know what it is but, whatever I play on it seems so great, the image quality is fantastic, the blacks are awesome. Even at 720p.

Daniel, have you down-sampled games on your RiftUP setup? On the current Dk1, 1080p is max, 1440p doesn't work.

[Vimax]

I don't suppose it would be possible to know what and how many early-bird promotional stuff would be available.. is it?

Staying up till 1AM might be difficult for me but I'll do my best.

[baggyg]

I don't think my eyes care about it not being full HD OLED. The Sony HMZ-T1 micro display is so beautiful, I don't know what it is but, whatever I play on it seems so great, the image quality is fantastic, the blacks are awesome. Even at 720p.

Daniel, have you down-sampled games on your RiftUP setup? On the current Dk1, 1080p is max, 1440p doesn't work.

THe HMX T1 is an OLED. But you are right that it is 1280x720 per eye. The contrast / blacks, very pretty.

[Leahy]

I've been following this thread since the beginning just out of curiosity not really seriously considering risking my precious rift with something likely beyond my skills but that last picture convinced me. The text comparison really shows the difference. I even opted to skip the DK2 and wait for the CV1. I waited since months before the kickstarter and it really killed me. This way I should be able to have my VR fix while I wait

Really great work guys