Meant to be Seen

stokis wrote:why after crafting the map, the map doesn't show up? i am holding the map in my hands, and after the right click the map does not show up. this is a bug or what? it's hard to play minecraft without using maps..

Currently we use the third-person player model for the in game first person model. Otherwise you would have a disembodied hand floating in space. However Minecraft currently doesn't show a number of animations with the third-person player model; holding a map is one of them.

We'll be looking to add support for these additional animations over time, but it will take a while I'm afraid. However I've added an entry for this in the issue tracker.

Personally, I'm really interested in trying a Wii Balance board for walking/strafing

Right, I have a project - I'll test this out ASAP and give you feedback. (BTW, have done some preliminary tidying on the wiki already.)

Unfortunately my Rifting is being somewhat limited right now by interactions between Rift and eyestrain (not a good combination), and the bloody Balance Board is on a different development machine to the Rift, but I'm sure we can get over those minor hurdles

Incidentally, does anyone else find that the effect when you move very close to a wall is somewhat headache-inducing? Minecrift works great most of the time, but I was exploring a friend's underground cavern system the other day, and every time I moved right up to a wall it was as if the Rift was trying to move my eyeballs in opposite directions...

thenomad wrote:Incidentally, does anyone else find that the effect when you move very close to a wall is somewhat headache-inducing? Minecrift works great most of the time, but I was exploring a friend's underground cavern system the other day, and every time I moved right up to a wall it was as if the Rift was trying to move my eyeballs in opposite directions...

Hmmm, that doesn't sound good or right! Let me try that when I get home...

Let me try that when I get home...

Enjoy! I recommend having asprin and a bucket handy

(Actually, I'm coming to the conclusion that should be standard advice for all Rift development...)

@thenomad
It sounds either like your IPD settings aren't quite right, causing eyestrain, or perhaps you're unintentionally moving your head when getting close to objects (a "oh crap better not hit my head!" reaction), which would tempt the v-sickness monster.

I suppose that, due to the fact your head really can clip through objects in a game, you can actually get your eyes closer to an object than you normally would. Furthermore, your eyes IRL cannot normally focus properly on anything closer than about 10cm. In the Rift, this rule does not apply, because focus is uniform (and in the distance); if an object is right up in your face, you can actually focus on it! This might encourage you to merge stereo images that really are too close for comfort. *ponders*

TheHolyChicken wrote:@thenomad
It sounds either like your IPD settings aren't quite right, causing eyestrain, or perhaps you're unintentionally moving your head when getting close to objects (a "oh crap better not hit my head!" reaction), which would tempt the v-sickness monster.

I suppose that, due to the fact your head really can clip through objects in a game, you can actually get your eyes closer to an object than you normally would. Furthermore, your eyes IRL cannot normally focus properly on anything closer than about 10cm. In the Rift, this rule does not apply, because focus is uniform (and in the distance); if an object is right up in your face, you can actually focus on it! This might encourage you to merge stereo images that really are too close for comfort. *ponders*

We're doing collision detection and preventing the camera view from clipping through objects. I'm wondering if this is not synced up for each eye...

@StellaArtois - that could well be it. It certainly felt like, when I got close to a wall, my eyes were attempting to move in different directions.

thenomad wrote:@StellaArtois - that could well be it. It certainly felt like, when I got close to a wall, my eyes were attempting to move in different directions.

Ok, I'll have a look at that this evening...

Be aware that I've not got around to trying Minecrift yet, I was just speculating! It's definitely next on my Rift agenda, though - I was just cleaning up my Minecraft install and saves first before undergoing more modding. I'll provide details soon of an organisational tip that people may find super useful.

StellaArtois wrote:

stokis wrote:why after crafting the map, the map doesn't show up? i am holding the map in my hands, and after the right click the map does not show up. this is a bug or what? it's hard to play minecraft without using maps..

Currently we use the third-person player model for the in game first person model. Otherwise you would have a disembodied hand floating in space. However Minecraft currently doesn't show a number of animations with the third-person player model; holding a map is one of them.

We'll be looking to add support for these additional animations over time, but it will take a while I'm afraid. However I've added an entry for this in the issue tracker.

thank you for clarification. Will play with compass than

StellaArtois wrote:

stokis wrote:why after crafting the map, the map doesn't show up? i am holding the map in my hands, and after the right click the map does not show up. this is a bug or what? it's hard to play minecraft without using maps..

Currently we use the third-person player model for the in game first person model. Otherwise you would have a disembodied hand floating in space. However Minecraft currently doesn't show a number of animations with the third-person player model; holding a map is one of them.

We'll be looking to add support for these additional animations over time, but it will take a while I'm afraid. However I've added an entry for this in the issue tracker.

I have an idea how you can implement map very easy. You can put back first person model camera mode only for map viewing, without vr tracking. Just put default first person camera back, so it is accessible on F5 key (or other F key, can't remember which F key was for camera modes).. Is it possible?

stokis wrote:

StellaArtois wrote:

stokis wrote:why after crafting the map, the map doesn't show up? i am holding the map in my hands, and after the right click the map does not show up. this is a bug or what? it's hard to play minecraft without using maps..

Currently we use the third-person player model for the in game first person model. Otherwise you would have a disembodied hand floating in space. However Minecraft currently doesn't show a number of animations with the third-person player model; holding a map is one of them.

We'll be looking to add support for these additional animations over time, but it will take a while I'm afraid. However I've added an entry for this in the issue tracker.

I have an idea how you can implement map very easy. You can put back first person model camera mode only for map viewing, without vr tracking. Just put default first person camera back, so it is accessible on F5 key (or other F key, can't remember which F key was for camera modes).. Is it possible?

I like the idea as a stop-gap for now. I'll look into it, and if it's easily doable we'll add it.

Ok, I admit! I had fun putting support for the old dis-embodied hand back in. Next release folks (soon). Remember, it is just a disembodied hand though... no updates to the first person model to support new animations or anything like that as yet. You can switch between full or just the hand for first person (or use Ctrl-H for a quick switch):

Strange FPS drop.
So I'm trying minecraft for the first time. (And I think it's a pretty cool game, I don't really have the hang of it yet, gonna watch some tutorial videos on utube)

And when i play it I get an FPS of 50+/-, sometimes 40-45.
My specs;

Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor OC @ 4.0Ghz
MSI Z77A-G43, Socket-1155
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB CL9
Gainward GeForce GTX 670 2GB PhysX CUDA
Intel® SSD 330 Series 120GB 2.5", 25nm

It's strange, I thought my system would manage minecraft just fine?

Noose wrote:Strange FPS drop.
So I'm trying minecraft for the first time. (And I think it's a pretty cool game, I don't really have the hang of it yet, gonna watch some tutorial videos on utube)

And when i play it I get an FPS of 50+/-, sometimes 40-45.
My specs;

Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor OC @ 4.0Ghz
MSI Z77A-G43, Socket-1155
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB CL9
Gainward GeForce GTX 670 2GB PhysX CUDA
Intel® SSD 330 Series 120GB 2.5", 25nm

It's strange, I thought my system would manage minecraft just fine?

I assume you've got Minecrift installed as well and you're running at 1280X800? Does disabling FSAA make a difference (Options->VR Options->Optics/Rendering, FSAA to OFF)?

Thx for the MOD list this will really come in handy. I purchased Minecraft soooo long ago I've forgotten how much fun it was & now playing in V.R is so frickn freaky ...

Those green monster that explode.. I think thye're called Creepers.. freaked me out big time

I'm expecting even more weirdness with the updated Mods

Noose wrote:Strange FPS drop.
So I'm trying minecraft for the first time. (And I think it's a pretty cool game, I don't really have the hang of it yet, gonna watch some tutorial videos on utube)

And when i play it I get an FPS of 50+/-, sometimes 40-45.
My specs;

Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor OC @ 4.0Ghz
MSI Z77A-G43, Socket-1155
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB CL9
Gainward GeForce GTX 670 2GB PhysX CUDA
Intel® SSD 330 Series 120GB 2.5", 25nm

It's strange, I thought my system would manage minecraft just fine?

Minecraft is actually a surprisingly demanding game. Turning down the viewing distance will reap the greatest benefit. You will also want to alter the amount of memory that's accessible to minecraft, to make sure it's not forced to juggle between hard drive and fast memory. There's a myriad of other tips and things you can change that may give performance benefits. Whatever you do, make sure you're getting a consistently high framerate, or the headtracking with Minecraft will feel gross!

StellaArtois wrote:

Noose wrote:Strange FPS drop.
So I'm trying minecraft for the first time. (And I think it's a pretty cool game, I don't really have the hang of it yet, gonna watch some tutorial videos on utube)

And when i play it I get an FPS of 50+/-, sometimes 40-45.
My specs;

Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor OC @ 4.0Ghz
MSI Z77A-G43, Socket-1155
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB CL9
Gainward GeForce GTX 670 2GB PhysX CUDA
Intel® SSD 330 Series 120GB 2.5", 25nm

It's strange, I thought my system would manage minecraft just fine?

I assume you've got Minecrift installed as well and you're running at 1280X800? Does disabling FSAA make a difference (Options->VR Options->Optics/Rendering, FSAA to OFF)?

Thanks. Gonna try disabling FSAA when I get home from work.

StellaArtois wrote: Minecraft is actually a surprisingly demanding game. Turning down the viewing distance will reap the greatest benefit. You will also want to alter the amount of memory that's accessible to minecraft, to make sure it's not forced to juggle between hard drive and fast memory. There's a myriad of other tips and things you can change that may give performance benefits. Whatever you do, make sure you're getting a consistently high framerate, or the headtracking with Minecraft will feel gross!

Gonna check that out, how is your display setup? And I might be blind but I didn't find anywhere in the setting to change the resolution?

Noose wrote:

StellaArtois wrote: Minecraft is actually a surprisingly demanding game. Turning down the viewing distance will reap the greatest benefit. You will also want to alter the amount of memory that's accessible to minecraft, to make sure it's not forced to juggle between hard drive and fast memory. There's a myriad of other tips and things you can change that may give performance benefits. Whatever you do, make sure you're getting a consistently high framerate, or the headtracking with Minecraft will feel gross!

Gonna check that out, how is your display setup? And I might be blind but I didn't find anywhere in the setting to change the resolution?

There is an option in the Optifine settings to set a full screen resolution

Turning off FSAA did the trick! Thanks!

Does anyone know why Mojang has been so silent regarding Rift integration? They received their DK last February and I haven't heard from them ever since...

It's strange since Jademalo was able to mod it and is currently doing such an awesome job with minecrift.

I hope they are simply using our code (as it's open source) as a basis for their conversion!

Except we're building on Optifine, which they aren't integrating...

Well true, but you get my drift!

Welcome back!

Hey guys. So I've had a short go of this, more soon....
My initial impressions are that it looks amazing, but I'm having trouble with the warp; it's definitely not correct for me. I play with the A-cup lenses, assembly most of the way in, and eyes very close; so I can see a great amount of the screen. When I look at objects near my peripheral they're definitely not orthagonal like they should be!

Any advice?

I've now tried the positional tracking - and WOW.

That's a major game-changer. The level of additional immersion is incredible: having the view move with you as you lean and crouch is pretty stunning. It makes everything feel much more real and solid.

Will be playing with it more tomorrow.

Okay, here comes that guide I hinted at before!

So I was irritated that Minecraft demanded to use %APPDATA%/.minecraft as its directory, regardless of where your Minecraft.exe was. When modding the game I would frequently end up with saves getting contaminated, or corrupted, due to mod issues. In an attempt to counter this, I'd have backups of .jars and saves and versions scatted around my harddrive like dandruff.... unpleasant.

What I really wanted was a single, independent, self-contained Minecraft folder that I could move around as I pleased. So here's how to do it! Don't worry, this may look like a long process but it's super simple (I'm being as explicit as I can about every step)


A W E S O M E - M I N E C R A F T - I N S T A L L
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Create a new folder
• Inside, create a new Text Document, named "Minecraft Launcher" (or whatever you fancy)
• Paste in the following text, and save the file:

  Code: Select all

  @echo off
  Title Minecraft Launcher
  set APPDATA=%~dp0
  start %~dp0Minecraft.exe

• The last line should be the name of the application you would normally use to launch Minecraft. If you want to use the magic launcher, change it to that! (eg if your usual launcher is called 'MagicLauncher_1.1.6.exe', your last text line will be: ' start %~dp0MagicLauncher_1.1.6.exe ' )
• Change the file extension from .txt to .bat . If you've done this correctly, your file type should now be described as a "Windows Batch File"
• Into your folder, place the Minecraft.exe (plus any extra launcher you may want to use such as the MagicLauncher.exe)
• Your folder should look something like this:
  
• Now just run your "Minecraft Launcher" batch file to start playing! Minecraft will download, and be fully self-contained within your folder!
  After launch:
  
• All your Minecraft stuff is neatly within the one folder! Huzzah!

NOTES:

• You must ALWAYS start Minecraft using your "Minecraft Launcher.bat" file. Don't worry - if you forget and accidentally load the normal Minecraft.exe, all that will happen is you'll use the usual Minecraft location at %APPDATA%/.minecraft instead. You won't lose any of your stuff
• You must keep the 'Minecraft Launcher.bat' file together in the same folder along with a Minecraft.exe and a .minecraft folder. Do not move the 'Minecraft Launcher.bat' from the folder - it won't be able to find your Minecraft! If you want a shortcut to it, just right click and "Send to > Desktop (create shortcut)"
• You can now freely move your Minecraft folder(s) around anywhere you desire. Copy to a pen drive, send to a friend, email to your mother; mod one to the moon and back, and have another install completely clean. Whatever you want!
• Here is my current gathering of Minecraft installs as an example (soon to grow):
  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I know what you're like. All this modding and editing and stuff sounds complicated, right? You really want to play Minecrift, but all that modding is just a little too daunting. Perhaps an attempt was made, but something went wrong and it doesn't work?

Never fear! I've done all the difficult steps for you, and, by using the steps described in the above post, I've made a clean Minecrift install that's fully self-contained. Just download the link below, unzip, and play!
[EDIT] Sorry guys, I can't do this as it breaks rules from Minecraft/Optifine Link removed.

I'd ask that you clicky THIS LINK, and maybe even some of the ads there, to make sure the Optifine guys aren't missing out on their ad revenue. Better yet, send them a donation and get a cape!

uhhh



Does that include any orignal minecraft code? we can't redistribute minecraft.

Also, if it has optifine in it, that is also illegal.... I'm sorry, but there is a reason I have it set up this way. I'm working on an installer for the 1.6 launcher that will remove the need for all this.

mabrowning wrote:Does that include any orignal minecraft code? we can't redistribute minecraft.

Also, if it has optifine in it, that is also illegal.... I'm sorry, but there is a reason I have it set up this way. I'm working on an installer for the 1.6 launcher that will remove the need for all this.

Is it illegal to provide a fully packaged file like that? I know it's not allowed to share source code/decompiled files, but the combination of two readily available files, shared without payment or the like, is that also illegal?

(an honest question, I really am curious if it is)

mabrowning wrote:Does that include any orignal minecraft code? we can't redistribute minecraft.

Also, if it has optifine in it, that is also illegal.... I'm sorry, but there is a reason I have it set up this way. I'm working on an installer for the 1.6 launcher that will remove the need for all this.

I've simply followed all the Minecrift installation steps and zipped it all up, so you can just get playing immediately with zero hassle. I've not altered any of the code, I'm not claiming it as my own work, and I'm not gaining anything from this. You'll still need your own Minecraft login to play. I'd recommend you go throw the Optifine guys a donation, or clicky THIS LINK to give them that little bit of ad revenue, as they certainly deserve it.

If the TOS/Copyright is as strict as it suggests, I've already outright broken it by "distributing it" to my wife, instead of making her download and install it herself. I'm a monster, I know.

TheHolyChicken wrote:

mabrowning wrote:Does that include any orignal minecraft code? we can't redistribute minecraft.

Also, if it has optifine in it, that is also illegal.... I'm sorry, but there is a reason I have it set up this way. I'm working on an installer for the 1.6 launcher that will remove the need for all this.

I've simply followed all the Minecrift installation steps and zipped it all up, so you can just get playing immediately with zero hassle. I've not altered any of the code, I'm not claiming it as my own work, and I'm not gaining anything from this. You'll still need your own Minecraft login to play. I'd recommend you go throw the Optifine guys a donation, or clicky THIS LINK to give them that little bit of ad revenue, as they certainly deserve it.

If the TOS/Copyright is as strict as it suggests, I've already outright broken it by "distributing it" to my wife, instead of making her download and install it herself. I'm a monster, I know.

Nice work TheHolyChicken! As ma says, I'm not sure as to the legality of this. But we certainly appreciate your efforts!

It's also prompted me to do what I should have done a while ago - get myself an Optifine cloak. They do some great work.

TheHolyChicken wrote:Hey guys. So I've had a short go of this, more soon....
My initial impressions are that it looks amazing, but I'm having trouble with the warp; it's definitely not correct for me. I play with the A-cup lenses, assembly most of the way in, and eyes very close; so I can see a great amount of the screen. When I look at objects near my peripheral they're definitely not orthagonal like they should be!

Any advice?

Grats on finally getting your Rift by the way!

So - a few questions:

- Is this only an issue you see with Minecrift?
- What's your IPD as measured by the Oculus calibration tool?
- Have you set up the Minecrift IPD to match?
- Is your Optics/Rendering->FOV scale set to 1.00?

StellaArtois wrote:

TheHolyChicken wrote:Hey guys. So I've had a short go of this, more soon....
My initial impressions are that it looks amazing, but I'm having trouble with the warp; it's definitely not correct for me. I play with the A-cup lenses, assembly most of the way in, and eyes very close; so I can see a great amount of the screen. When I look at objects near my peripheral they're definitely not orthagonal like they should be!

Any advice?

Grats on finally getting your Rift by the way!

So - a few questions:

- Is this only an issue you see with Minecrift?
- What's your IPD as measured by the Oculus calibration tool?
- Have you set up the Minecrift IPD to match?
- Is your Optics/Rendering->FOV scale set to 1.00?

The odd warping is only a problem I've seen with Minecrift so far. I can't remember my exact IPD, but I'm sure it was close to the standard 64mm. Mileage with other software varies, but some demos such as Unity Tuscany and the Rollercoaster have had stellar depth using default settings. I've not done much tinkering (yet) with the Minecrift settings, but it's certainly possible I've meddled with something I should not have (eg that FOV scale?)

I'll be able to give much more concise details (and screenshots etc) when I get home, but unfortunately I'm at work for the next 8 hours. I was just wondering if there was something that's likely the culprit, so I can go poke it and see what happens.

thenomad wrote:I've now tried the positional tracking - and WOW.

That's a major game-changer. The level of additional immersion is incredible: having the view move with you as you lean and crouch is pretty stunning. It makes everything feel much more real and solid.

Will be playing with it more tomorrow.

Glad you like it! Let us know how it goes...

TheHolyChicken wrote:The odd warping is only a problem I've seen with Minecrift so far. I can't remember my exact IPD, but I'm sure it was close to the standard 64mm. Mileage with other software varies, but some demos such as Unity Tuscany and the Rollercoaster have had stellar depth using default settings. I've not done much tinkering (yet) with the Minecrift settings, but it's certainly possible I've meddled with something I should not have (eg that FOV scale?)

I'll be able to give much more concise details (and screenshots etc) when I get home, but unfortunately I'm at work for the next 8 hours. I was just wondering if there was something that's likely the culprit, so I can go poke it and see what happens.

Ok, not sure what else to suggest for now. So is it purely a warping issue (e.g. a straight vertical line is not straight or vertical in your peripheral vision) suggesting the barrel distortion shader is not quite correct? You mention other games have 'stellar depth'?

Post up some 1280X800 Rifties when you have time.

So I spent a little longer messing around with Minecrift. I can't seem to get a truly smooth framerate, which is frustrating. It's ~60 FPS, but just never feels slick like Tuscany does. OptiFine's Video Settings contains an option for "Smooth FPS", which helps, but doesn't entirely solve the problem. Are there rendering/Optifine settings you would recommend?

So the warping. It's definitely off - I was able to spend a little more time messing around with it, then compared to Tuscany to confirm. To reproduce, pick some objects to look at, then roll your head so your right ear is attempting to touch your right shoulder. Now roll your head so your left ear attempts to touch your left shoulder. Keep rolling your head back and forth like that, like this bloke:


The warping issue should demonstrate itself quite clearly - objects will skew and twist as you roll your head. I went back to Tuscany and objects definitely feel much more "solid", and keep their shape better as you roll your head (I could not perceive any irregularities there at all).

Hope this helps. I am happy to supply pictures, but I think doing the motion yourself will demonstrate the issue much more clearly.

Alright, I got my Rift last night.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased. Not a touch a motion sickness, so that was a relief. However, I also don't really feel like I'm "in" the game... IPD calibration showed 70mm... I wonder if that has something to do with it: maybe the optics just can't handle my caveman face. The bridge of my nose sure didn't like it, I've still got red marks from it pressed against my eye sockets.

Minecraft was the best experience for me, which is good! Tried Blue Marble, Riftcoaster, TF2, HL2, etc. Probably get some more later, but Minecraft was the best. I suspect its due to they positional tracking.

I should probably also donate to Optifine... I've been using it for so long and it makes a difference. I think we'll put a note in the README to do so as well. Good on them!

Speaking of optifine, I should have some time tonight to port to 1.6. The build system is quite a bit different, so I may not be able to get a release out tonight, but I'll make some progress on the actual merging. Sorry its taken so long, folks.

Glad you got your rift. Just don't forget us DIYers hehe.

I would love to get an official rift so I didn't have all the hassle of trying to get stuff working (although standard pc games do seem better on the diy, I have flight sims, driving games all working perfectly). But i have enjoyed the building experience so much. I will get the Consumer version on day one though.

Minecraft has been my favourite so far though. Even with only mouse emulation I have spent hours walking around my server just admiring the view and jumping out my skin when you turn around to face a hissing creeper!

Matt.