Calling all flight/racing sim enthusiasts, where you at?

[miahallen]

I hope I'm not the only one....but is anyone else surprised by all the excitement by FPS fans? To me the Rift is still SO lacking for a proper FPS experience because you're mimicking a a character who is moving all over the place and holding a variety of objects. I would think you'd need a lot more than just a VR headset to do the FPS genre justice. I know there is a lot of discussion about additional VR peripherals, but nothing of any substance yet.

What I'm really surprised about though, is the lack of enthusiasm from the sim crowd. To me it seems the Rift is taylor made for simmers, racing & flight, because you're mimicking a character who is sitting on his ass...and we already have the tactile peripheral support to make the experience SUPER immersive (FFB Wheel, shifters, pedals, SimExperience, etc...). I just can't figure out why simmers and sim developers are not more enthusiastic about the Rift. I would think sim developers would be grappling to get their hands the dev kit to support their sims. But it seems as if every announcement for supported titles have been of the FPS variety

Simmers need to speak up and let the VR community know that we want this!!! (iRacing, this means you! )

[bobv5]

I like flight sims, but I don't think the Rift has high enough resolution for it to work as anything more than a novelty.

I like driving sims, and I think that use is almost solved already. A FFB wheel, a suitable warp driver, a *pie script to send rift tracker data to the headtracking function the sim already has, job done, not much to discuss.

[cybereality]

I remember playing rFactor on the VR920 (back when it was new) and the head-tracked HMD experience was very cool. Even with the low 32 degree FOV, the 3dof tracking made it an immersive experience. Not really a huge sim fan myself, but I would always use this to demo the VR920 since it was easy for people to just sit and look around.

I'm sure this would be awesome on the Rift. Granted the res could be better, but it should still be enough to be playable. Probably racing would work better than flight since there are less dials and stuff to worry about. But it should be fun.

[Bretspot]

Hey Simmer here.
Could it be tha pretty much all recent sim games have rather niche audiences? Many modern sim games have either dumbed things down and become more arcadey to get bigger audiences or gone ultra realistic and lost more of the general audience? Either way i am looking forward to getting back into the genera with the rift.

Games id like to see get rifty
Grand Prix Ledgends Oldy but goody and highly modded throughout the years
Mechwarrior Mercs Online ( i doubt it but ill cross my fingers)
Real Flight (rc sim)

[miahallen]

I like flight sims, but I don't think the Rift has high enough resolution for it to work as anything more than a novelty.

I like driving sims, and I think that use is almost solved already. A FFB wheel, a suitable warp driver, a *pie script to send rift tracker data to the headtracking function the sim already has, job done, not much to discuss.

I'd agree 100%, but the resolution issue will be resolved in time...thats a relatively easy fix, as soon as a better screen is available, it'll be utilized. So I don't see that as a major hurdle, just another step in developement. In other words, I don't see why the low res would put off flight sim devs considering known future improvements. So why haven't any sim developers announced official support/efforts?

[bobv5]

Because they already have a really small market, they can't spend time and money on tech that isn't ready for that purpose yet. When the hardware is good enough, I am sure they will use it.

[brantlew]

The Rift will be good for sims, but it seems to be that simmers already have really good immersion from multi-screen setups - and even better if they build out vehicle shells and motion platforms. So maybe since there are pre-existing solutions the sim crowd has not been as focal whereas the FPS crowd has had nothing thus far.

[DannyO]

Sim racer here as well. I think we will see a lot of attention by the time the consumer version is ready, I believe the Rift will be a very worthwhile product for not only having more fun, but being more precise with your laps, so even though sim racers are a specific crowd and quite small compared to other markets, I believe the majority of that crowd is going to want a device like this, plus this will be equally as awesome for arcade racing games as well, which is a far bigger crowd.

I think it should be easier to make work for racing games due to the fixed driving position, no where near the amount of things that need to be changed compared to your typical FPS game.

I hope to see something like Project Cars, rFactor2 or maybe iRacing to be one of the firsts to take this on and include support.

[miahallen]

The Rift will be good for sims, but it seems to be that simmers already have really good immersion from multi-screen setups - and even better if they build out vehicle shells and motion platforms. So maybe since there are pre-existing solutions the sim crowd has not been as focal whereas the FPS crowd has had nothing thus far.

While this is a valid point (I have triple 3D monitors), I still think this might have the promise of an even more immersive experience...and hard-core simmers are not interested in "good enough", they're interested in "the-best"...which is why they spend so much on their gaming toys (full-motion platforms etc...).

@ DannyO - I agree completely...for FPS gamers this will still be a novelty for quite a while, for sim racers this will be a helpful tool. So if only 1% of FPS gamers buy this, but 10% of simmers buy it, the market isn't as small as you'd first think...me thinks.

I just thought of one thing that might hold back iRacing...the driver model....or the lack thereof. It might be a problem if you want to look around the vehicle, iRacing doesn't cut corners, and I'd imagine, they'd want it to be perfect if their going to support it. That means they'll need to work on full interiors and the driver model. What do you all think, possible setback, or no big deal?

[DannyO]

I don't see it being a huge problem, for the most part, interiors of these racing cars in games like iRacing are bare for the most part, unlike the dash of a Ferrari in Forza or something, plus for the driver model, I think they would be fine with 1 basic model with a few various skins, I don't think they would be looking at trying to re-create existing racers accurately into their respective cars.

The one thing I see as being a bit of an issue is steering wheel input latency, not for the actual movement of the car itself, but of the steering wheel graphic showing you turning at the exact same time that you are, I think that would need to have the same latency or less as the Rift itself. For the most part it is fine with how we currently play with monitors, the delay can be easy to ignore, but inside a VR car, you couldn't really turn off the steering wheel image and hands like you can in some games, so it really needs to accurately represent exactly what you are doing with the steering wheel.

[brantlew]

While this is a valid point (I have triple 3D monitors), I still think this might have the promise of an even more immersive experience...and hard-core simmers are not interested in "good enough", they're interested in "the-best"...which is why they spend so much on their gaming toys (full-motion platforms etc...).

There was a similar thread to this a few weeks ago about flight sims. One thing that was brought up was that if you really go through the trouble, you can build out cockpits a lot more realistically than you could ever hope to achieve with an HMD rendering. Having real flight controls and instrument panels and multiple high resolution monitors in a cockpit shell is going to look WAY better than the equivalent rendering in an HMD. And if you add motion platforming - holy jeez that type of experience is almost perfect - especially for certain types of aircraft like commercial planes. And of course enclosed cars could also be modeled almost perfectly. So for the budget minded or the simple "enthusiast" - the Rift will be great so you don't have to reserve half your garage for a rig. But I'm betting for the uber-enthusiast the build-outs might still be the preferred solution.

On a side note: there was some talk in the same thread about the ultimate solution being an HMD and augmented reality where a physical cockpit could be constructed but all the windows would be green screened and composited with overlay graphics. Then you could do build outs for bi-planes and bubble window fighters - or how about motorcycles?

[Direlight]

Star Citizen

[SartreFan]

I want an arcade style dogfighting game like Crimson Skies but with a cockpit view, and the teams be humans vs aliens. A multiplayer game with different classes on both sides. I would play the crap out of that

[WiredEarp]

@ brantlew:

Having real flight controls and instrument panels and multiple high resolution monitors in a cockpit shell is going to look WAY better than the equivalent rendering in an HMD.

So for the budget minded or the simple "enthusiast" - the Rift will be great so you don't have to reserve half your garage for a rig.

There is one other reason to go with a virtual simpit however, and that is versatility. The problem with physical simpits, is that when you want to represent different cars or aircraft, you have to build a whole new one. That is why I think virtual is going to be a much bigger (although less realistic) market. With basic glove and vibration systems, you can give a slight sense to touching controls without much effort. However, the Rift will need a vastly increased resolution before it will be as good as having 3 1920x1080 screens.

The idea about using augmented reality will be a common approach I think in the future. One issue is that biplanes and motorcycles (eg) have different input devices, so if you try to build something generic you need it to be modular. However, I think this could be a good approach for arcade VR machines.

[Mart]

I hope to see something like Project Cars, rFactor2 or maybe iRacing to be one of the firsts to take this on and include support.

Project Cars have announced that they plan to support the Rift. They've ordered a dev kit. Source

[OmniAtlas]

I'm here. Oculus Rift integration with FSX please. This hardware would be fantastic with the PMDG 737 NGX. Currently head tracking support is done by TrackIR -- is there anyway to translate these calls for use with the Rift?

Is there anyway to integrate with Microsoft FSX SimConnect?

[TheHolyChicken]

I think this is just a simple misunderstanding.

There is no "lack of enthusiasm from the sim crowd". The sim crowd are enthusiastic. The "problem" is that everyone is enthusiastic, and you guys are a minority.

[backstaia]

Scifi nut here.
I am super hyped to see this stuff with my dev kit. Support is already confirmed. will be the first time to use a joystick since Wing Commander IV.
can´t wait

enemystarfighter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cGQS15Golo

strike suit zero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO8RFED0gdA

miner wars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPx99jjnrTs

[Baristan6]

I like flight sims, but I don't think the Rift has high enough resolution for it to work as anything more than a novelty.

I like driving sims, and I think that use is almost solved already. A FFB wheel, a suitable warp driver, a *pie script to send rift tracker data to the head tracking function the sim already has, job done, not much to discuss.

You are right about the resolution in flight sims. A few years ago I experimented with stereoscopic 3D and head tracking in IL-2. The head tracking completely changed the game for me. Not only could I rotate my head like using a HAT switch or mouse look, but also was able to lean forward to see the instruments, look around the pillars blocking my view and raising my head to see over the plane's nose. The greater spacial awareness and ease of tracking enemy planes nearly tripled my kill ratio. Turning on the stereoscopic 3D was amazing at first, but at the time my hardware only maintained acceptable fps at 720p or less. Going from 1080 to 720 nearly cut the distance I could spot targets in half. It didn't take long for me to turn it off. With the low pixels per degree on the Rift, visible distance will be much worse. However in space sims where you have a HUD tracking distant objects, driving sims, or any other game where you only need to see more than a few hundred meters I imagine the consumer Rift will work great.

[Tacklebait]

Take on helicopters on the rift.. YES PLEASE!

[STRZ]

On the Racedepartment forums they're very exited about the Rift. Afaik the Project Cars and Assetto Corsa devs ordered a Rift already. On the ISI Forums (Rfactor) the're several threads about the Rift too, and one of the developers (Tim Wheatley) already approached Oculus for a devkit (he received as response that he'll have to wait for the second charge of devkits if he orders one). On the Live for Speed forum there's a Rift thread, but the devs don't seem to be too exited about it when i checked their forum, because they don't seem to understand that it's different from previous headmounts. Simbin no idea, i have no acess to their RaceRoom beta forum, same for iRacing (but i know that people over there are very interested in it).

I think that a good Rift implementation is better (more immersive) than gaming on triple monitors, especially with the Rift headtracking and stereoscopic 3d. It won't be a problem not seeing the shifter, because in real life you don't look at your shifter, you know where it is, and this would be the same with your racing rig. Button boxes could be tricky to operate, but i'd get a wheel addon with enough buttons which are in reach of your thumbs, so you use muscle memory there too. You wouldn't need the periphals like tablets showing your tachometer and stuff, because you see all the info in the cockpit of your car.

And maybe they implement interactive cockpits with hand tracking in the future.

Miahallen, you're the one who took the Sony HMZ t1 apart, and showed it in a YT video using it with iRacing, right?

[superbike81]

I don't think the resolution is going to be as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be.

Yes, for now the 640x800 (per eye) might make some of the dash gauges illegible. However I think it's a tradeoff in total immersion. I've done everything from a single 120" screen to triple 23" screens to triple 40" projection screens. None will even hold a candle to the immersion factor of being put "in the game" with the Rift.

[Fluke]

Would love to see a good racing sim. My wheel has been gathering dust for months now, but I can't help but think that a wheel + Rift would make for a stupidly immersive experience.

[superbike81]

Apparently my comments about the Rift offering much more immersion than any of my previous setups upset someone. I won't name names, but I got a couple PM's from someone telling me how wrong I am about that.

I guess he wasn't confident enough in his opinion to post in public so he figured he would harass me over PM instead.

Not sure what he was trying to accomplish, but I don't believe for a second that the Rift won't offer more immersion than a triple screen setup.

[Additives]

Star Citizen

You got that right, their forums and live chat are always harping on about the Rift. Must admit, it is currently the thing I am most looking forward to, just being able to come home from work, chuck on the Rift and a good pair of headphones and fly my futuristic spaceship all around the universe. Ahhh, relaxi*ohcrappirates*

[Direlight]

Game is SCREAMING for VR.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1PWiZ3sYWU[/youtube]

[cerulianbaloo]

Damn does that look impressive, one of the best cockpit views/animations I've seen. Especially like the nice hand animation touches when interacting with the screens. I'd love to see a motion glove solution that matches your movements in game, that with the use of a flight stick....

[miahallen]

On the Racedepartment forums they're very exited about the Rift. Afaik the Project Cars and Assetto Corsa devs ordered a Rift already. On the ISI Forums (Rfactor) the're several threads about the Rift too, and one of the developers (Tim Wheatley) already approached Oculus for a devkit (he received as response that he'll have to wait for the second charge of devkits if he orders one). On the Live for Speed forum there's a Rift thread, but the devs don't seem to be too exited about it when i checked their forum, because they don't seem to understand that it's different from previous headmounts. Simbin no idea, i have no acess to their RaceRoom beta forum, same for iRacing (but i know that people over there are very interested in it).

I think that a good Rift implementation is better (more immersive) than gaming on triple monitors, especially with the Rift headtracking and stereoscopic 3d. It won't be a problem not seeing the shifter, because in real life you don't look at your shifter, you know where it is, and this would be the same with your racing rig. Button boxes could be tricky to operate, but i'd get a wheel addon with enough buttons which are in reach of your thumbs, so you use muscle memory there too. You wouldn't need the periphals like tablets showing your tachometer and stuff, because you see all the info in the cockpit of your car.

And maybe they implement interactive cockpits with hand tracking in the future.

Miahallen, you're the one who took the Sony HMZ t1 apart, and showed it in a YT video using it with iRacing, right?

Yes, that was me :p

[EdZ]

Game is SCREAMING for VR.

Chris Robertson specifically mentioned the Oculus Rift as a development target for Star Citizen.

[Mystify]

Normally I wouldn't care a bit about a cockpit, but that has even my mouth watering at the thought of it in VR.

[Hooves]

A little birdy has let me know that 777 studios has purchased a dev kit or two for development for "Battle of Stalingrad" due to release in Early 2014. That means that Rise of Flight might also get some OR love after it gets upgraded to the new DN engine that is supporting BoS.

[neverman]

That's just beautiful!

[superbike81]

Steve Myers from iRacing confirmed that they ordered two developer kits.

[drifter]

A few years ago I experimented with stereoscopic 3D and head tracking in IL-2. The head tracking completely changed the game for me. (...) Going from 1080 to 720 nearly cut the distance I could spot targets in half. It didn't take long for me to turn it off. With the low pixels per degree on the Rift, visible distance will be much worse.

Even if I must turn on labels to play IL2 with the rift, I take. The difficulty will be to read the gauges. With a 6DOF head tracker you can always zoom on your instruments. Or else knowing very well your cockpits...
I think it's doable, and that may be easily done :
- good mod community, pretty open game
- 6DOF is already implemented
- IL 1946 has no top notch graphics (still updated), but it will run easily @60fps

However in space sims where you have a HUD tracking distant objects (...) I imagine the consumer Rift will work great.

Would love X-Wing or Tie Fighter in VR, but the games are pretty closed :/ (they managed to make a trackIR mod, but it's just a clumsy mouse emulation)

[miahallen]

Steve Myers from iRacing confirmed that they ordered two developer kits.

Yes, this is very exciting news