Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift)

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cybereality
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

Well I should have some time over the holidays so I'm hoping to get something out before the end of the year.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Kirito »

it looks realy sweet
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by neverman »

Cyber
Is it possible adding support for Metro 2033 and Metro last light?
I've been playing this game on my 3d projector with 5.1 surround sound on.And I can say it is THE BEST 3d game experience I've ever had.
Please^^^
Oculus rift,it's here,I'm there.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Libertine »

Couldn't agree more, but Metro is locked down code wise. I've only heard of one person modding it. DownRegulation, found here. http://www.lastlightforum.com/showthread.php?t=1684
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

@neverman: Possible? Yes. But I don't think I have much time before the initial release.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by neverman »

All I see is"possible?Yes!"
And I forget the rest… :D
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

neverman wrote:All I see is"possible?Yes!"
And I forget the rest… :D
I thought he said "Yes... before the initial release." But I may have forgotten part of it. :lol:

Seriously though, there's no hurry. Real Rift's don't come out until March.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Hooves »

Hey there Cyber, ID like to request that you take a look at the game Rise of Flight. http://riseofflight.com/forum/


IT uses the Digital Nature engine, and next year will now play host the next chapter of the IL2 Sturmovik series. http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/

This announcement means that basically all WWI and WWII combat SIM games are running on the same Engine. Im not sure how the game responds to 3D, but I do know that it is DX9 and looks to be keeping that for a while to come. Thanks for your work!!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Valez »

Steam has added most of the racing simulations from SimBin a couple of days ago.
They would certainly work beuatiful with the rift, all games should have Track IR support allready, and
they all share the same engine.

I would be very, very happy if you would find the time to add support for them.

I have copys of GTR 2 and GT Legends lying arround somewhere, pm me if you want the keys cyber.
I will buy the complete SimBin package on Steam anyway.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by ChrisP »

LOVE that you are making backwards compatible software. from the look of things is supporting the Rift your only goal? can us DIYer's expect any level of support as well?
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

Well supporting the Rift is the prime objective, down the road I think more devices could be supported.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by crespo80 »

yeah, just be sure not to waste time supporting something with a low demand:
I mean, it wouldn't make sense to add support for let's say a Vuzix device if there are only 10 persons interested, and delay the support of a game for which there are 100 users interested :mrgreen:
Maybe, after your initial release you could make some polls to better focus your work on what's more requested (hence more profitable for you :mrgreen: )
P.S. My vote is for Crysis (1,2 or 3) and Dirt 3 or iracing!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Hooves »

OK SO The Digital Nature engine (RoF and BoS flight sims) supports 3D and quite well from what I understand. So I guess thats one hurdle down right? forgive me as I literally know nothing about hat it takes to tweak an Engine for Oculus support. But Im learning more all the time!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 3Tree »

cybereality wrote:In particular, it will pre-warp the image to match the Oculus Rift optics, handle custom aspect-ratios (needed for the Rift's strange 8:10 screen), and utilize full 3DOF head-tracking.
Will we be able to turn off the 3D option and utilize just these features? I wanted to be able to use your driver with this upcoming device in the future:

http://www.fundable.com/3-dvision
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by bobv5 »

Cyber, Is your driver likely to work with Branlews 6dof HL2 mod? Or other mods for Source games?
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

3Tree wrote:
cybereality wrote:In particular, it will pre-warp the image to match the Oculus Rift optics, handle custom aspect-ratios (needed for the Rift's strange 8:10 screen), and utilize full 3DOF head-tracking.
Will we be able to turn off the 3D option and utilize just these features? I wanted to be able to use your driver with this upcoming device in the future:

http://www.fundable.com/3-dvision
Why? Cybereality's driver is going to make MUCH better 3D than that device, since he has access to the actual polygon data and their 3D coordinates and that device doesn't.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

@3Tree: There is no reason to use that product with my software, and honestly I bet it doesn't even work. Auto 2D-to-3D is almost always garbage.

@bobv5: Source engine support seems pretty good, so it should work with HL2 and probably any mods for it. But I haven't tested this so I can't be sure.

Also, I am getting pretty close to having something ready. I'm still having some issues with the Hillcrest tracking but I don't want that to hold things up. I bet once I get the real Rift tracker everything will be fine. So I don't want to spend too much time with the Hillcrest that maybe only a few people will even be using. Otherwise things are looking good.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 3Tree »

@2EyeGuy + @cybereality

From what I saw and heard, it seems to work as described (unlike other devices/TVs with a similar feature). You also don't gain any increase in latency and you don't lose any fps. Not to mention this device will work on nearly all if not all 2D content. Automatic 3D support for pretty much everything that was made for 2D (and made for 3D content too) is a plus in my book. You would just need the tweaks for Oculus. You can kind of consider this thing the Oculus Rift of 2D to 3D converters in that it actually works the way you expect it to lol.

Cyberreality, since you seem to live in NY you can actually go check out the device for yourself, if you're interested. The inventor of the device also happens to be the inventor of LCD projectors and he lives in NY. His contact info is given in the link I posted. His name is Gene Dolgoff.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by EdZ »

3Tree wrote:You also don't gain any increase in latency
I hadn't realised we had AV devices that run on magic and pixie dust yet. That tech is always five years away!
Algorithmic 3D upconversion is about as viable as algorithmic colourising of monochrome video. Both require making some pretty substantial guesses about data that simply isn't present in the source. Large film studios hire many, many people and spend tens of thousands of man-hours manually upconverting 2D films to 3D, and even then it looks pretty terrible.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

Well, I have some big news to share. Was going to wait until later in the month but with articles coming out about the driver I thought it would be better to set the record straight.

Vireio Perception will now become free open-source software!!!

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it is the best thing to do for everyone. All the Rift owners will get free software to start playing on their device, developers will have something to play with or learn from, and I guess I will get some credit for starting an open-source project. I did have some dreams of selling the software and getting rich, but I don't feel like the driver is really a polished product ready for consumers. I would feel bad selling something that wasn't totally solid, and that I couldn't get behind 100%. So there you go.

The bad news is that I probably will not be able to continue supporting the software. One of the things I wanted to avoid was releasing a commercial product, and then being stuck supporting it for years. With my work situation I just wouldn't have the time to give it the kind of support it needs. With an open-source project many people can contribute and fix the software themselves, or add new games, etc. probably better than I could just as one guy. So I hope some people here will be interested in picking up the torch and keeping the software alive.

As much as I enjoyed hacking away on DirectX (and what a great learning experience), I have other interests and hope to be able to make my own original VR content. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I was stuck hacking on other people's games. So hopefully with the free time I have left I can work on some cool little demos that I think people will be really excited about when they experience it. But its been a great learning experience, and I'm really glad I made it this far.

So expect the initial release (source and binaries) to come out within the next week or two. I'll admit, there are still some issues, but I think its a good basis for future work. I was planning on using GitHub, as that seems to be the most popular but I am open to other ideas if there is something better. Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Mel »

cybereality wrote:Well, I have some big news to share. Was going to wait until later in the month but with articles coming out about the driver I thought it would be better to set the record straight.

Vireio Perception will now become free open-source software!!!

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it is the best thing to do for everyone. All the Rift owners will get free software to start playing on their device, developers will have something to play with or learn from, and I guess I will get some credit for starting an open-source project. I did have some dreams of selling the software and getting rich, but I don't feel like the driver is really a polished product ready for consumers. I would feel bad selling something that wasn't totally solid, and that I couldn't get behind 100%. So there you go.

The bad news is that I probably will not be able to continue supporting the software. One of the things I wanted to avoid was releasing a commercial product, and then being stuck supporting it for years. With my work situation I just wouldn't have the time to give it the kind of support it needs. With an open-source project many people can contribute and fix the software themselves, or add new games, etc. probably better than I could just as one guy. So I hope some people here will be interested in picking up the torch and keeping the software alive.

As much as I enjoyed hacking away on DirectX (and what a great learning experience), I have other interests and hope to be able to make my own original VR content. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I was stuck hacking on other people's games. So hopefully with the free time I have left I can work on some cool little demos that I think people will be really excited about when they experience it. But its been a great learning experience, and I'm really glad I made it this far.

So expect the initial release (source and binaries) to come out within the next week or two. I'll admit, there are still some issues, but I think its a good basis for future work. I was planning on using GitHub, as that seems to be the most popular but I am open to other ideas if there is something better. Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
Sounds great, but can/will you set up some sort of 'donate' mechanism? I'd like to throw some money your way just for the hell of it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by TilliK »

sounds like a good plan to realese it as open source! will help the oculus rift to get a good start in the gaming community. But I feel your pain when something dont go as it was planed, I whould have bougt it! ;)

BTW we need someone to work on arma 2 the only game i can think of with seperate head/torso movement!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by space123321 »

I agree - a donation for your efforts would be great!

I am sorry to see your commercial plans have changed for this project however I am totally excited to give this a shot on the DIY rift ASAP!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by brantlew »

Sounds great CyBer.

My only experience with open-sourcing is with the FreePIE project. We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much. Admittedly this probably has mostly to do with my comfort level with CVS/Subversion versus my ignorance of Git, but I haven't found out yet what is so great about GitHub. For some reason I can't selectively synchronize/check-in individual files with Git (only the entire project) which is really annoying when I have partial development that I want uploaded. Also SourceForge has it's own forum tools built in which GitHub does not. Hopefully this post will get blasted with all the great things about Git, because I actually really want to know.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by FingerFlinger »

I really like Git! But it's all I've used, so maybe I just like having source control.

EDIT:As for partial check-ins, I can't think of any time I have wanted to only commit changes to certain files?

Cyber, I'll definitely throw a couple of bucks your way. Your driver is going to be a pretty big deal for all of the early adopters.
Last edited by FingerFlinger on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by MSat »

Sounds great, Cyber! Thanks! A donation box would certainly be fair. It might even provide a bit of motivation to continue working on it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Fredz »

brantlew wrote:We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much.
I've been using Git and Github at work for the past 10 months and I quite like it. I've been using CVS in a previous job for one year and I find Git/Github better on most aspects, even if I didn't like the decentralized aspect at first.

I guess you need to get used to it, that'll come with time. Don't hesitate to try to create alternate branches for testing some ideas, work on them, stash things not supposed to be commited, merge branches, etc. That's the real power of Git.

I also very much like the Web interface and the direct connection between Issues and commits, very valuable to maintain a project over time. Commits can close issues or refer to them (the commit link appear in the issue), milestones can help to keep track of things to do, screen caps can be done in Issues with a simple Ctrl-V in Chrome, etc. A lot better than what SourceForge or equivalent forges can provide IMO.

As for the open source direction the Vireio driver is taking, it's nice since more people will have access to it. But as with any other open source project, its success can only be guaranteed by the people working on it. And that may be a major pitfall, especially if you (Cyber) don't intend to actively maintain it. Especially since that kind of software really needs a dedicated task force to be able to add support for games one by one.

Emerson open sourced his Biclops driver quite some time ago, and there hasn't been any commit in the past 7 months despite the major work was done. I hope Vireio will not take this route but will instead follow more closely what is happening with FreePIE which seems quite lively. I think to help doing this a nice website would certainly be a good idea, a simple Github repository is not the best way to attract more people.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by brantlew »

FingerFlinger wrote:EDIT:As for partial check-ins, I can't think of any time I have wanted to only commit changes to certain files?
For example, I've got this in my directory.

my_new_complete_file.cpp
my_uncompleted_research.cpp
my_uncompleted_research.dll

I may be working on something for months but not ready to release it while simultaneously making changes or bug fixes. In CVS, I would just selectively check-in my_new_complete_file.cpp But the GitHub tools don't like me to do that. They want me to put in everything or else I can't synchronize. So I end up wasting a lot of time moving files in and out of directories before synchronizing with GitHub. So what's the solution? Do I really have to create a new "branch" on my local drive just so I can work on a couple extra files. What gives GitHub ??
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Fredz »

brantlew wrote:So what's the solution? Do I really have to create a new "branch" on my local drive just so I can work on a couple extra files. What gives GitHub ??
That would be the best solution, what Git has basically been written for. You simply have to create a dev branch as opposed to the master branch that you want to connect to upstream. Branches in CVS and SVN have been a pain, but in Git it's very natural. My coworker often creates temporary branches to test new ideas, going back to another branch is simply a "git switch" away.

The other possibility is to stash specific files - you can even give a name to this stash action - so these files don't get commited when you push, but I find that only really useful when I was working on something and some more urgent thing came back. This way you can rapidely resume your work from where you were at after you've pushed the important changes.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by mahler »

brantlew wrote:My only experience with open-sourcing is with the FreePIE project. We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much. Admittedly this probably has mostly to do with my comfort level with CVS/Subversion versus my ignorance of Git, but I haven't found out yet what is so great about GitHub.
GitHub isn't that great by itself, but it was one of the first user-friendly hosting sites which supported Git at the time, so that's where most of the content went, so that is what people know. There are quite a few good alternatives, but I personally stick with GitHub for now.

But Git is awesome :)
For some reason I can't selectively synchronize/check-in individual files with Git (only the entire project) which is really annoying when I have partial development that I want uploaded.
If I understand you correctly, that should be easy to solve.

Git has two steps for committing.

1) Staging area
2) Actual commit

If you have changes in 10 files, but only want to commit 2. You first stage the two files with 'git add [filename]' and then commit the entire staging area (2 files). You can do the same with the other files. After you made all the commits for your feature, you can push to the origin (@GitHub for example)

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that the master is now local. So try to see the origin as the main branch, and when you push your commits, it's actually merging, not synchronizing. If you want to maintain separate features, maintain separate branches on your local machine.
Also SourceForge has it's own forum tools built in which GitHub does not.
Yeah, GitHub has issue-tracking and a Wiki, that's about it. Pretty limited. Not sure if Cyberreality cares about that. I think he might like the MTBS3D forums :)
Hopefully this post will get blasted with all the great things about Git, because I actually really want to know.
Come on IRC (channel #oculusdev on EFnet) and if you like to discuss more.
I may be working on something for months but not ready to release it while simultaneously making changes or bug fixes. In CVS, I would just selectively check-in my_new_complete_file.cpp But the GitHub tools don't like me to do that. They want me to put in everything or else I can't synchronize. So I end up wasting a lot of time moving files in and out of directories before synchronizing with GitHub. So what's the solution? Do I really have to create a new "branch" on my local drive just so I can work on a couple extra files. What gives GitHub ??
There is a trick around that.

Code: Select all

git stash
This will temporarily put any changes out of view from the branch. Then you can act like there are no changes (except your commits) ... then after you merge with origin you can re-apply your stack by typing

Code: Select all

git stash apply
This will merge those change into your branch.

See this blog-post: https://ariejan.net/2008/04/23/git-using-the-stash
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 3Tree »

EdZ wrote:
3Tree wrote:You also don't gain any increase in latency
I hadn't realised we had AV devices that run on magic and pixie dust yet. That tech is always five years away!
Algorithmic 3D upconversion is about as viable as algorithmic colourising of monochrome video. Both require making some pretty substantial guesses about data that simply isn't present in the source. Large film studios hire many, many people and spend tens of thousands of man-hours manually upconverting 2D films to 3D, and then then it looks pretty terrible.
I should say without any noticeable increase... Anyway check out some of the previews on the links he posted. He mentions what you said and talks about the different methods companies use today to do upconversion and why they don't or didn't work too well.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by superbike81 »

CyberReality: I have no coding knowledge to speak of whatsoever so I'd like to make a request.

There is a fairly popular (30,000+ active members) pay to play realistic racing sim called iRacing that I would love if you could make compatible with your driver. I would be more than happy to pay for an account for you, it gives you basic access to a few different cars and several tracks, everything after that has a content purchase required. The problem is that the game is entirely online and launches through a website. There is a big community of developers that create plugins for it through the API (honestly I don't know what that means).

I know of 10 people so far including myself who have purchased a dev kit, but I have a feeling most of them are like me and aren't truly developers. The iRacing staff has not commented on if they have ordered a dev kit or if they plan on implementing Rift support. So I'd like to make a request/proposal that you join iRacing (I'll pay for it), as well as possibly working something out with the other dev kit iRacers where we could likely pool together a little money for a donation for your effort as well. Once we get our dev kits I'm sure we can be your testers as well.

Just a thought, if you aren't interested, no problem, just trying to get the idea out there.

Thanks! :)
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by FingerFlinger »

@brantlew
What Fredz and mahler said. I make a new branch every time I embark on some new tangent or bug fix; it's very convenient! Also, I forgot about stash. I don't think I've ever had to use it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by yautjacetanu »

well this definitely sounds much more likely to gain mileage as an open source thingy because i'm guessing lots of people will find it fun just to tinker with it.

However I'd still be happy to pay for it. You can still sell opensource software so maybe its worth doing that initially, just with an opensource license so that people can give it away for free/ modify it? Then change things as other start to modify it?
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by STRZ »

It's a nice move to make it open. Depending on the license you pick, you have control over what others are allowed to do with it, open source doesn't mean that others are allowed to copy it if you exclude it in the license. It's a technical advantage because as developer you're not the only one who want that it's compatible with anything, du to collaboration with others you advance much quicker.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by jayoh »

cyber,

this is a great move for the community and smart from becoming a slave to a commercial product with your other commitments.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by shent1080 »

I think allowing everyone to mess around with the software will be great, more hands on deck the better, if it could get a listing on the board index page as well that would help keep it alive. Cyber, i think you should let people donate, you've worked on the project for a while now and i imagine it's been very frustrating at times.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

Thanks, guys! Don't think I will do the donate thing (always felt like begging for change to me) but I really appreciate the support.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by bobv5 »

But you wouldn't be asking for money, you would be accepting money they offered.
"If you have a diabolical mind, the first thing that probably came to mind is that it will make an excellent trap: how do you get off a functional omni-directional treadmill?"
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

cybereality wrote:Vireio Perception will now become free open-source software!!!
Are you sure? You could always sell it first and then open-source it later.

Or you could open-source it first and still sell it. Other companies have tried that.

You've worked really hard on this project, and I was hoping you'd make some money on it. Software is even more important to VR than the hardware.

Oculus seem to be hiring lots of people, so I think they should have been paying you to do this, since it's so important for the success of their hardware. I hope Oculus will give you some money for doing this. Maybe you should ask them for some.
cybereality wrote:Thanks, guys! Don't think I will do the donate thing (always felt like begging for change to me) but I really appreciate the support.
Now that's just ridiculous. It's not like you're standing on the side of the road begging random passers-by for change while offering them nothing but unpleasantness. You made a quality product that people want to buy, but you won't take their money.

Now SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
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