Samsung UN46ES7100 vs LG 47LM7600 vs UN46ES6820

[havok2191]

Hello everyone,

I need to make a choice between these 3 TV's ASAP. I understand that the Samsung is active 3D and the merits of active 3D and the LG is passive 3D. Samsungs comes with 2 or 4 pairs of SSG-4100GBs 3D glasses and the LG comes with 6 pairs of its own glasses. Currently, I am using a Asus VG236H (true 120Hz gaming) 3D monitor with 3D Vision (I understand that is active). I notice that there is occasional flickering with lights are on but very minimal flickering (when scene changes drastically - very fast cuts) and my eyes tend to water slightly but I have been getting used to it and this happens a lot less.

Today I went to the store and I had a look at the 3DTVs they were demoing with 3D glasses and I managed to get a look at a variety of LG, Toshiba and Sony models. Unfortunately, they did not have any Samsung 3D glasses and they insisted that the Sony 3D was very similar to the Samsung 3D. I guess it was the lighting position and the fact that they were doing 2D->3D conversion but it didn't look that great. There was a lot more flickering and I was not able to watch for long using their demo heavy-duty Sony 3D glasses. I noticed that the Toshiba sets (L7200U,L6200U) were a bit too grainy for my liking so I kinda ignored them and I was looking at a lot of LG sets. I noticed terrible crosstalk and judder in all of them except for 1 which really caught my eye - this was the LG 47LM7600. I put the glasses on and there was no flicker, my eyes didn't water and it seemed very pleasant to watch. Now I have a bias towards the LG since I didn't get to see the Samsung's shine with their 3D (Why the heck there were no 3D glasses for samsung @ futureshop? I have no idea - seems kinda fishy). They didn't even have the ES7100 in the store so I was sort of looking at the ES6500,ES6820 and the ES8000 and the guys there told me to expect something quite close to the ES8000 in terms of 2D picture quality (I don't know how true this is). I am interested in hearing your opinions about what TV you would go for given my current experience. I have no idea how the 2012 Samsungs fare in terms of flickering and causing headaches - did they improve active by a lot? and is it worth considering now? That being said, I did look at the ES6820 and the ES6500 and was very impressed.

I understand how passive and active technology works and currently only active will yield true 1080p to both eyes as opposed to the trickery done by the passives through interleaving to yield 540p/540p to create a 1080p image.

My TV habits usually consist of a decent mix of games,movies and some TV shows here and there. I would say right now about 65% 2D and 35% 3D watching (have a lot of 3D movies and games starting to pop up in my collection).

I have an nVidia card (GTX 680) along with great specs to boot. I understand there is currently a limitation with nVidia's implementation of 3DTV play with active TVs and you can only do 3D at 1080p@24/30Hz with frame packing or 720p@60hz frame packing. They do plan to add SBS and HSBS support which allows ~1080p@60hz (not really 1080p due to the way they do it) later in the year but for now Tridef DDD should hold up until then. Passive TVs have no such limitation due to the way they work and you can do ~1080p@60hz interleaved 3D.

Given my situation and my long explanation (sorry!) can you guys give me some of your opinions

Thank you very much for reading

[butmunch]

Hi,
If the es7000 is anything like the 8000 then 3d input lag is quite big, gaming will see a input lag in 3d of around 50/100ms,i had to return the 46 and 55 es8000 due to 2 major things ruining my gaming experience.

1) Way too much input lag in 3d , i hated gaming on it, move your stick and a few moments later the gun on screen will move, i sure as hell noticed this coming from a lower input lag 3dtv.

2) Massive amounts of motion blur at 60hz or any hz that did'nt use frame interpolation, looks like alot of modern 3dtv's, wether active or passive have put too much into frame interpolation to decrease motion blur instead of making there 60hz scanning backlight better to decrease motion blur/ghosting.

The lm7600 i have allso had and this set has very good input lag in 3d compared to the es8000 but it's still too much for me to race racing games.
It allso has terrible motion blur with any hz content that does'nt have frame interpolation enabled.
So 60hz 2d or 3d gaming has alot of motionblur and not by alittle either, both the samsung and lg was so bad for gaming my gaming went downhill for a few month !

I have included a picture of what the motion blur looks like, it's extremely bad imho and 2010/2011 lg passive 3dtv's had much less motion blur.

I'd suggest taking your pc to the shop and seeing what your 60hz gaming looks like with frame interpolation ect turned off if you can.

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Response ... ootOut.htm

[cybereality]

I haven't tried those TVs, so I can't really say which is better. I remember hearing that the Samsung TVs had a lot of ghosting (crosstalk) but I am not sure if they fixed that with newer models. Passive may be easier if you have a large family, or watch TV with lots of friends (ie cheap glasses, less things to worry about). And I find passive to be easier on the eyes if thats an issue for you. Active, however, is going to have better picture quality (ie full 1080P) but may be a little darker than passive. With active you also don't have to worry about viewing angles as much as with passive. If you have never used a passive TV, this may be a bigger issue than you think. You need to basically sit in the perfect position to see the 3D clearly. But, really, any of those TVs are probably decent.

Just make sure you get a TV that is on Nvidia's supported list, since you have an Nvidia card:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play- ... ments.html

[havok2191]

Hey guys,

I took a look at the Samsungs in the store, they had it this time. Man they really really hurt my eyes (I have really sensitive eyes). The 3D picture on the ES7100 didn't look that great compared to the ES8000 which is to be expected I guess. Also, there was flicker when the lights were on so I asked them to turn it off and there was still flicker in a scene or 2 (watching Avatar in 3D) that sort of messed with my head, I really couldn't put a finger on it . The 2D picture quality of the Samsungs were really good - I'll give them that. I guess my eyes don't play nice with active 3D (full 1080p) glasses (as I said my eyes water after playing on my active 3D gaming monitor and sometimes I feel nauseous after a 1 hr gaming session in 3D) which is quite unfortunate .

I tried the LG LM7600 again and I will still impressed with it. I didn't experience any flicker or crosstalk on this model and it was quite pleasant to watch after the session with the Samsung. I started moving around and sitting at different angles like I did with the Samsung and it looked a lot better (a lot more watchable) to me even though I know that i'm not actually getting full 1080p in 3D. The 2D picture quality was just as good as the Samsung - yeah yeah I know that the Samsung has superior black levels and contrast but I liked the LG too. There was also a deal on this and the guy was nice enough to give me a nice discount which basically made me go for this.

Now I know you can play games in 3D without the limitations (3DTV play) using the Zalman EDID hack. I'm just wondering if there are still colorbug issues - I hear that if you purely use the Zalman EDID without modifying the audio component it seems to resolve a lot of stuff - http://3dvision-blog.com/7271-lg-passiv ... o-3d-mode/

I don't care about sound as I usually use my 7.1 surround sound headphones so I am wondering if this fix still applies to me.

A big thanks to butmunch and cyber for advising me - I don't really play shooters on the big screen or racing so I decided to go for the LM7600 since this had lower input lag than the other 2

EDIT:

Can you guys tell me what I need to enable interleaved 3D using 3D vision? I seem to have confused myself a little

From what I understand, you need the Zalman EDID without any bloc extensions and thats it?

[cybereality]

I would recommend purchasing the DDD driver. I find it to be better than Nvidia in a few important areas (namely the 3D looks more impressive). You also won't have to do any hacks or anything to get it to work. Later on if you need support from a game DDD doesn't support, then try with Nvidia.

[havok2191]

Hey guys,

I figured out the EDID override, it was really easy. Unfortunately I didn't have any decent 3D Games installed at the time but the movies I had looked great and AC:Brother hood looked pretty good too!

Btw using SVP to create the soap opera effect before sending it to the TV looks pretty snazzy
I actually don't mind the soap opera effect

The only thing I had to do after using the Zalman ID was change the picture to mode to game otherwise I saw a tad bit of ghosting in some areas. It went away with game mode.

Overall, I'm happy

Thanks again guys