Sony HMD Virtual Screen Size

[StreetRat]

First off, i know theres the sony hmd thread, but this is a more specific question so i thought a new topic would be better.

I went in to a sony shop and checked out the hmd today and as soon as i put it on, was rather unimpressed with the screen size.
Being my first hmd, and from what i understand, this being a personal movie viewer, i was expecting something that looked the size of a projector on a wall, or a cinemas, a nice big screen, but put it on, and all i get is what looks like a 23" screen at arms length. So tiny.
The 3d side of it was beautiful, the screen was crystal clear, but there just wasnt anything there.

I have a 24" on my desk, and a projector in another room, both using nvidias 3d vision, so i was after something that would equal that at least, or was i expecting too much?
I was wondering, is this just me, am i failing to see the size? or is this it for now?

[WiredEarp]

Funny, to me, it appeared to be about the same size as a 50" TV at about 3m. However, that equates to about the same FOV!

To me, it was well sufficient, because I have used lesser HMD's. However, I totally understand where you are coming from. These displays are NOT VR headsets. They are merely head mounted displays. To get a VR headset, personally I think you need 80+ degrees of FOV. The only (and its a big one) advantage HMD's have over (eg) projectors is that they can change the view as you move your head. Get a good headtracker, combine it with one of these, and you'll have some moments of VR immersion.

[StreetRat]

So i guess the screen size is what we perceive it to be.
Since ive never really had a normal tv, ive used a wall sized screen from a projector for the last 10 years, the only thing i can see in the screen is a 23" - 24" as thats all i can associate with it. Kind of like an optical illusion, do you see the face or the vase, do you see the big screen at range or the small screen up close.

As for the head tracking, a track ir works well enough on the projector, but i was thinking about going more VR than just movies. Read too many stories from here over the years. 360 degree Hydra, head tracking, nice screen + BCI seemed like such a great mix.
I guess for thoes that have used the older stuff, they have more realistic expectations than someone whos just jumping in head first.

The biggest question for me then is does the screen size become less of a noticeable problem when the immersion takes over? Do you get hooked on whats there rather than what isnt?

[JohnCarmack]

I hate the quoted figures for "screen size" -- HMDs should always be discussed in terms of field of view, and you need to qualify whether you are talking about "diagonal FOV" as manufacturers usually use because it is a bigger number, or "horizontal FOV" as games usually use.

The 45 degree hFOV on the Sony is just barely crossing the threshold of usability, but is a long way from what you would want.

Higher FOV displays are going to be bulky, and many manufacturers have decided that you can't make a good consumer product like that, but there is no reason why they necessarily have to be much more expensive, especially if you are willing to live with a bit of optical distortion in exchange for the FOV, which is certainly a good trade for entertainment uses.

John Carmack

[CyberVillain]

I've noticed that if you block out all other reference points (Dark room or skigoggles mod) your senses persive the virtual screen as much bigger

[ERP]

Decent FOV is my number one want for HMD's, I can live with some optical distortion.
Because of the bulk requirements I don't think we'll see an existing major CE player do this.
I think there is a potential market in the hard core gamer space, but it would take a hardware release with software designed to exploit it, getting passed reviewers writing it off as a gimmick is going to take a "blow me away" experience, and I think existing titles without work will have way too many compromises (like HUD placement) to be taken seriously.

[StreetRat]

I've noticed that if you block out all other reference points (Dark room or skigoggles mod) your senses persive the virtual screen as much bigger

Excellent, this is kind of what i was hoping for.

[cybereality]

Well, the virtual screen size is actually pretty big in comparison to previous consumer level HMDs. Its actually nearly 50% bigger as something like the 1200VR. So in that respect its pretty nice. From the angle of a VR system like you imagine from the movies, then it falls short. However, I don't think its a bad size. Its just what we have today, and what a company like Sony can afford to market. Surely better headsets will come with time (even if we need to build them ourselves).

But practically speaking, I can tell the virtual image on the HMZ-T1 looks larger than my 24" monitor, but smaller than 27" models I have tried. So certainly its no big-screen projector, though in certain instances it could seem that big. What I am saying, is that viewing a 27" monitor 1' probably covers a larger FOV than sitting in the center of a movie theater. But no one would claim a desktop monitor appears larger than the cinema. With HMDs its all about your frame of reference. If you can still see your desk and monitor, then you will compare it to that. If you went to the cinema and brought the HMD I am sure the virtual image would look a lot bigger. So it is very much an issue of perception.

[Bishop51]

I hate the quoted figures for "screen size" -- HMDs should always be discussed in terms of field of view, and you need to qualify whether you are talking about "diagonal FOV" as manufacturers usually use because it is a bigger number, or "horizontal FOV" as games usually use.

The 45 degree hFOV on the Sony is just barely crossing the threshold of usability, but is a long way from what you would want.

Higher FOV displays are going to be bulky, and many manufacturers have decided that you can't make a good consumer product like that, but there is no reason why they necessarily have to be much more expensive, especially if you are willing to live with a bit of optical distortion in exchange for the FOV, which is certainly a good trade for entertainment uses.

John Carmack

Is this the real John Carmack (I'm sure you hate being asked that if so but I'll ask anyway!)? If so...cool! Agree completely with your assessments on a push for display hardware innovation over graphic innovation.

Anyway, short term I think high FOV will be bulky but there are a few bits of tech making their way up the ladder which could change that a few years out. Probably the most promising is the iOptik lenses which allow for dual focus, wide FOV right next to the eyeball projected directly onto glasses: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-t ... in;content

Generally (and I know I'm speaking to the choir here) the public AND most manufacturers seem to be clueless in terms of just how important FOV is to immersion and what that brings to the table. There's a whole new frontier waiting for us resting on the bridge of our noses!

[3dvison]

Bishop51,
Are you keeping an eye on Palmers PR2(now re-named the RIFT) ?
It will be about 120 deg.
Never mind Biship51, you are posting in those threads.
Here are the links for others, the PR2 link: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=13745
And the new RIFT link: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=14777

[3dvison]

Can you use a plain old pair of magnification type reading glasses to make the Sony HMZ-t1 screen seem closer and bigger ?

[StreetRat]

3dvision, if that was directed at me, im curious about that too, would adding magnification lenses make everything bigger or would it just distort the image? and is there enough room? (didnt get much of a play so cant remember how much room there was)

Also, with Palmers RIFT coming out is there any point getting the sony hmz? its 900 AUD which is a little more USD so its not exactly cheep down here. If i can get something better for cheaper in a few months than i might wait, even if theres some assembly required
Or get the sony hmz so i can appreciate how much better the RIFT will be?

One last thing, how easy is the sony hmz to hook up and play with 3d games? Nvidias 3d vision just works, are the sony drivers as good/better?

Thanks for the information so far.

[cybereality]

The HMZ is well supported software-wise. On Nvidia GPUs you can use the 3DTV Play software, great support. With AMD GPUs you can use DDD and probably IZ3D. So, yes, no problem with support (provided you have a modern video card with HDMI 1.4a support).