Not necessarily the hardcore games and gamers. ANY game that required VR to play and reached a mass level of popularity would work. I would have thought you were crazy ten years ago if you told me that everyone would buy a $200 game bundled with custom controllers, but look at the Guitar Hero franchise!

I just wish that Sony would spear-head this movement because they really have all the pieces just sitting there - ready to go. PlayStation + Move Camera + HMZ-T1 = very good VR gaming setup. They just need a bit of software to glue it together and a great game to make use of it.

There's not a lot of info, but this looks like it could be a great first step:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14531

@ brantlew

We'll see if the PS4 will be the game changer for Sony and VR. A while back i read somewhere that they plan to ditch their TV production to focus on other stuff...

The Guitar hero stuff is selling like sliced bread, really bananas. I can relate to the fun behind it, i'm a bit into jamming virtual instruments on a PC. Actually even thinking of buying an Ipad for that to be more flexible, there are some crazy good music apps out there, professional quality, like on PC's a few years ago. The best part of it is that tuning instruments and handling is much more intuitive, giving you less a sensation of working in front of a PC ( i sit most time in front of a PC at work )

You should check out Synthesia
http://synthesiagame.com/

Basically guitar hero for a full MIDI keyboard/piano. I suck at piano, but this thing is awesome and actually makes me sit down and practice every once in a while.

@Brentlew - Thanks for the info on Synthesia. Bought a MIDI digital piano last year just for Rock Band 3 and try to get the kids interetested in piano. Synthesia looks like the software to go for as personal piano tutor.

As for VR in PS4, the hurdle would be the pricing. Unless you are hardcore FPS, it's hard to fork out USD 1.5k for VR (PS4 - USD 500 + HMZ-T1 - USD 799 + accessories - USD 200). If you do a survey, I bet most of us that into VR are from age group of 30-50 years old as we had the financial means to get the gadget we want.

Yes the pricing is a problem. Still...1/3 of all gamers are over 30 so that is a pretty big chunk of the pie.

I highly recommend Synthesia - and go ahead and pay for the full product because the value-added features are really worth it. It automatically slows and synchronizes all the accompanying instruments to your finger speed so you can play as slow and terrible as possible with full band accompaniment. Sooo much better than normal solo practicing.

Oh, and it can also control the instruments programmed into your keyboard instead of the crappy PC midi instruments. So if you've got a decent synthesizer, it really sounds like you are playing with a symphony orchestra. Really cool.

I'm a hardcore Gamer, ranked under 100 in the world in Battlefield 3. I only played two days with my Sony HMZ, and I can tell you VR and HMD's are currently not an advantage when playing online, because of the 3D you aim slower, and because of screen size you have to move your eyes more which makes you slower, also I felt some sickness when doing extremes dives in my Little bird helicopter So I will keep playing onlone with my screen and use my HMZ for singleplayer immerse stuff..

I quit using my HMZ for online multiplayer after one round of Halo: Reach. I didn't understand what the problem was, but I suppose it was the screen size. I was playing in 2D. Why does 3D cause slower aiming? I thought having depth perception can make aiming easier. I will try going back to my HMZ. I think it's probably possible to adjust.

I play BF3 in 3D sometimes. Its funny cos you dont need to do so to have fun .... but once you turn the 3D off again, it just feels really flat and fake.
I am not as competitive on foot but with vehicle play its not really any worse. It IS a little harder to focus on people but it can also help in picking helicopters out against backgrounds etc.

RenderDevice.StereoSoldierZoomConvergeScale = 0 really improves aiming through scope, ironsight etc... WHat it does it removes the 3d completly, like in real life when you aim

Don't know how I missed this, but I totally disagree. My HTC owning friends have all gone to Samsung now. Motorola has nice build quality, but really, I dont see the difference. Its not a rock, why would you want it to be?
Your experiences with other Samsung products (made by other divisions) have nothing to do with their phones. Your friends phone has failed? Wow, I have lots of friends whose phones have failed. I also have a friend whose touch screen bit died after only a year on his HTC. So, really, I could claim exactly the same stuff, but I wouldn't, because to judge a product by one persons experience is pretty unfair. It sounds like you dont actually OWN or have owned a Samsung phone, so really your opinion is pretty much invalid.

BTW, virtually all laptops hinges fail, thats what they do. I know this, I've had lots of laptops, and used to deploy them to my company. Maybe metal unibody ones might be better... but laptops only have a 2-3 year lifespan anyway.

The features I was referring to were some of the best screens, sensitive touch screens (try some cheap brand Android phones and you will notice a big difference), and pretty much top of line hardware inside (cpu, gps, etc). I've had my Galaxy S for quite a while, never had a single issue with its hardware. My parents both have Nexus S's, absolutely no problems and they love them.

So, to put it in short, I absolutely disagree, and nothing you have said gives me the idea that you have really had enough experience with the devices to be able to judge them objectively.

Back on topic:
CyberVillain: I dont have any issues aiming with the scope in 3D, but I'll check it out anyway just to see what difference it makes.
I DO wish I could change the separation to get more popout now.

@ everyone: I used a HMZ-T1 today (actually, two of them). For those in Auckland, New Zealand, they have two on display at the Sony shop in Newmarket.
I was pretty impressed really. The form factor is TERRIBLE. My forehead felt sore after a few minutes. However, the resolution/brightness, screen size, etc, is very very nice.
I didn't have any problems with edges not being in focus or stuff like that. Also, I could easily move my head and still see both screens perfectly.

Quite tempted to get one of these now, but they are an extra $400 (another 50% of the price of the ST1080), and WILL require some serious comfort mods. Now im really torn. The screen is 16:9 compared to the Z800's, this is nicer for immersion, and the OLED displays crap over the Z800's ones (way brighter and more contrast).

Go for it! Just do the comfort mod. The problem is the pressure on the forehead that give you the headache.

I liked that I could use my glasses inside it. I'd say its the equivalent of about a 50" TV. Not VR but nice. It was VERY uncomfortable on the forehead, totally see what everyone is bitching about (and why its modded so much).

The thing is, the ST1080 claims 45 degree FOV which is the same as Sony claim for this. I've heard someone say that the HMZ measures it differently and actually has a higher FOV, but if thats the case, wouldn't they advertise it as such? Can anyone confirm or deny this either way?

I saw the HMZ advertised with 51 degree FOV. I'm going for the exit pupil in the ST1080 as well as native 1080p

Why did they move to Samsung? Because HTC was lacking behind Samsung with the inbuild technology like GPU and CPU power for a period of time, and tech is more a deciding factor for most. But not for me when looking for a smartphone.



I personally try to avoid thin plastic or feelalikes for devices i use/hold in my hand on a daily basis. That's all. For something that i hold in my hands on a daily basis and carry around i rely on solid build quality if i have the choice.

Whe have lots of phonestores where you can demo the devices in your hands. So you can make your mind up before buying anything. This and researching the www. you can get a perfect impression about what you can expect. It's not necessary to own any phone to have a opinion about it's build quality.



Maybe HTC bought their displays of samsung as they are not a display manufacturer..



No problem with my personal experience beeing invalid for others. Unfair? Why? That's life. Equally i could assume that you are biased towards Samsung because you spend money for their devices.



But not after 2 months. Well that model was famous for this problem, not mentioning the wlan problems. Google it if ou have doubts. My older ASUS eee PC i own just works fine instead and never had a problem.



Technically they offer impressive value, never had doubts about that, even said that their screens rock. Like i said repeatedly a few pages back and repeated in this post, it's the build quality and quality control in general wich puts me of. Strange that it's so hard for you to accept



There is nothing to judge, if i hold it in my hands and it feels kind of cheap and other devices feel better then that's it. Period. Just walk in any phone store and compare yourself. If it feels good enough for you and for other persons not, you can't do anything about it. People have different preferences.

@ Frogztar: Sony themselves advertise it as having 45 degree FOV. Is this an official Sony ad?

@ STRZ:
- I'll take an informed, biased opinion, over an uninformed, biased opinion, any day.

Wiredearp, I have a cheap, quick, comfort mod that one forum member has already tried and confirms makes the HMZ really comfortable. It's a fabulous headset now both visually and comfort.

I think I have to wait until the 1080 is out. I dont want to pay the extra 50% for the Sony, only to find the ST1080 is superior in most ways... so I think i'll wait till its released, and check the reviews then. Will lose me the $100 discount for preorders but I just dont feel confident with my choices currently.

I have seen some of those HMZ mods around and I believe they would fix 99% of the problems. Really, it seemed like a very nice unit.

I'm sort of leaning your way as well WiredEarp.

I'm not even a gamer and don't actually have an immediate need for these toys other than "gadgetry lust", so I'm finding it more and more difficult to justify this purchase. I would easily put a $1000 down on a unit if I felt like it was "the one" and it would be the best unit out for several years forward, but I get the feeling that there's going to be a lot of iteration in this market in the next year or two and I sort of want to see how it all shakes out.

I think I could probably wait 6-9 months to see how the ST1080 reviews, see what driver and firmware updates they have in store, and also see if Sony is planning on a revision to their unit.

@brantlew: Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat. I'd really like to buy something, and money isn't necessarily a problem, but I don't actually need to buy anything. Over the years I've realized I just stock pile gadgets and a lot of them barely even get used. Currently I am planning on building a VR demo sort of like a proof of concept, but its probably months off. For me, having the proper software is the most important thing as standard PC games aren't really VR yet. So I will probably wait until I have my software ready before I buy anything. By that time the ST1080 should be out and maybe there will be other developments.

http://my-bud.com/mall/goods/goods_view.asp?goods=3&category=1&word=&asc=2&sorting=0&top_size=20

check this out
2d to 3d conversion
4200mah battery
100" at 4m

less than 500usd

the only bad thing is the low resolution

i wanna know the diagonal FOV this has ?
is this better than the vuzix 1200 crap ?
anybody know abt?

I just got my ST1080. I'll have a more detailed review later, but for now I'll say:
1. The ST1080 is currently the best consumer HMD money can buy.
2. The ST1080 is not very good.

I just tried my ST1080 and agree it's not very good. I think the HMZ is the best consumer HMD, though. It can be modded to be comfortable. The ST1080 is comfortable, but can't be modded to have a better display.

It seems you can now order the cinemizer for the astonishing price of 649 euros. The resolution is a disappointing 870x500 but could it be possible that the lenses Zeiss have used might make up for that lower resolution? It's certainly very adjustable with both IP and independent focusing adjustments. The FoV is 30 degrees, so not much off the ST1080.

I have to disagree. The difference between 30 degrees and 45 degrees is very significant.

My mistake I, for some reason, had it in my head that the ST1080 had a FoV of 35 degrees.

What is good about the HMZ FOV that this area is what both eyes can actually see in 3D at the same time. If you have more than that you don't see 3D anymore cause the respective other eye cannot see it anymore.

Sorry but 30 degrees is a joke in 2012. Hopefully they can step up their game with future models, but this just won't cut it for VR or gaming purposes.

I've been doing some simulations. Zeiss say that 30 degrees is the equivalent of a 40" screen at 2m. I take it that that's the same as a 20" screen at 1m (please correct me if I'm wrong). I tried sitting 1.08m away from a 21.5" widescreen and found the results when viewing 16:9 content to be satisfactory to the point that sitting any closer was slightly more fatiguing. (2.39:1 was a little small but still watchable). Even watching 3D content (it's a 3D monitor) still had a fair bit of pop to it.

Am I doing it wrong or do movies just require a smaller FoV than gaming and VR? Also, if anyone has a link to a calculator or some simple formulae for calculating screen size-distance equivalents to FoV could they please post them? It would be very helpful in making my choice, thank you.

I buy today mi shinny hmzt1 i love ....its like a piece of art ...its just awe dudes

To reach THX certification the farthest seat in the cinema must have a 36 degree horizontal viewing angle.
As you move closer the viewing angle is wider. I cant find any confirmation on what they consider optimal, but from memory I think it is 40 degrees. The viewing angle for tv is narrower, simply because you usually
watch tv for longer periods of time.

However, the content filmed for movies are made for that purpose and framed so that you are supposed to be able to see generally what is spread across the screen. In other words you can fill up too much of your peripheral vision.

So why wont the high FOV of Oculus Rift cause the same type of eye fatigue?
If you look at movie content in a 90degree viewing angle, you will not be able to see all you need to see and will have to move your head or strain your eyes. Important content will fill up your peripheral vision, and you have to strain yourself to get all the input.

A game with a 90 degree viewing angle where you move your head freely are not made and framed in such a way that you need to look at all content in a frame at all times and you can turn away from something and choose yourself what you need to look at.

Its closer in comparison, to how you navigate within your field of view in real life.
So, you are better off comparing real life fov vs game (vr) fov and then tv fov vs cinema fov

You also have to consider the IMAX theaters. I just went there tonight (to see Skyfall) and sat up front. The screen basically covered my entire FOV, but it looked great and did not give me a headache after 2.5 hours. Not sure what THX has to say about that, but I had a good time.

In a Imax theater you can move your head, in a hmz-t1 you cant and rely only on moving your eyes.
Doesn't count that you can in theory add motion trackers to the hmz-t1. It would seriously strain your eyes if you had to move them too much in that timespan.

Also, you might not represent the average movie viewer, and both sound levels and lots of other things have to cater for more people than hardcore fans of high FOV. That means, even sitting at front row have to be within the comfort zone for the average viewer.

I never experienced regular movies on Imax, but I don't think I am going to want to watch regular movies on a much larger view than 40 degrees.

Maybe I am misreading your post? Can you really imagine comfortably watching Skyfall on a rift with the picture covering the entire width of each eye?

PS;

I just search skyfall+Imax and it seems it has been specially framed with Imax in mind. This makes more sense to me and might explain why you did not experience discomfort.

This is exactly why I think the SVP is such a good fit for the Rift:


I've just uploaded some new 60fps 3D samples with different warps here: viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15047&p=87885#p87885

I've been keeping a comparison chart of consumer HMDs here:

http://www.roadtovr.com/head-mounted-di ... ison-chart

I also did a Rift vs. HMZ-T1 vs. ST1080 article here (though it's a bit dated now; from August):

http://www.roadtovr.com/2012/08/11/hmd- ... hmz-t1-937