Displaying a FULL FOV impossible with 'flat' optics?

[WiredEarp]

I've been thinking about high FOV optical solutions and have realised that we will probably never get a full FOV setup using standard 'flat' lenses etc, no matter how wide we make the apparent image. For example, if you stand nose up to a wall, despite the wall filling your entire FOV when looking forwards, when moving your eyes to the side, you will see at 90 degree along the wall (so, in a HMD, you'd see the 'edges' of the picture).

This means that for the full VR we all want and will eventually have, we will need some type of curved eyecup type lenses, or a curved screen in front of the face etc (i'm ignoring future tech such as retinal projection for now). Are there any lenses that can accomplish this type of thing? I'm wondering about the 'VideoWrap' by LEEP (http://www.leepvr.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), which, while very short on details, they claim can provide such a wide FOV that you can not see the edges. Does anyone know anything about the LEEP VideoWrap system, or other solutions for getting this full FOV?

[Okta]

I know i answer every thread about optics the same way but a large cheap Fresnel lens can achieve this by flexing it. You will get some distortion of a flat display but at the edge of the view it may not matter, unless you need to read your desktop controls there in which case you will not really get a way with full FOV in any method.

[cybereality]

To some extent, this is true, but it really depends on the quality of the lens. For example, the lens Palmer used on PR4 more than covered the vertical FOV. It was true that you could still see the edges on the horizontal, but there was even some area behind the lens that the screen didn't cover (meaning the same optics with a wider screen could have covered more). Still not the full horizontal FOV, but it was getting a lot closer.

My own idea for an HMD was to use curved fresnels and polarized back-projection. I did a quick test with some $2 credit card fresnels, and the FOV is pretty wide. Granted, the quality is pretty low on this test, but it shows the concept works.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y94Tm2px33U[/youtube]

So with the curved fresnel it seems over 90 degrees is possible.

Will probably try to do some more tests in the coming months to see if this setup can actually work.

[Synexious]

Placing the optics on contact lenses is the answer.

[PalmerTech]

My latest HMD prototype, the PR5, uses tiled displays/optics to accomplish full 270+ HFOV. Since the seam between the displays is so far out in your periphery, you can't even tell it is there! This is in contrast to the tiled HMDs that Sensics makes, which while nice, have very visible seams. It weighs quite a bit, but I have a few ideas for fixing that.

I know a bit about VideoWrap, but it was not clear how much of what I know was to be kept in confidence. Suffice to say that it is not what we are looking for, and more than a bit of hyperbole was involved in its description.

Placing the lens in a contact is a start, but remember, that only works when you are looking at the microdisplay. To achieve full FOV, you would need a curved display, and can't cheat with tiled displays!

Fresnels are a good idea, too. They are one of the things I am hoping can lower the weight of my tiled HMD, since image quality is not very important in the periphery.

[WiredEarp]

I dont think most people will be keen on putting in special contacts. Tiled is a good idea and another way to achieve the same basic thing as curved optics (PR5 sounds interesting!). I notice the Sensics stuff the optics seems to resemble a curve when taken as a whole.

Unfortunately, image quality in peripheral vision IS probably important for true immersion, as that way you get the benefits of being able to use your eyes just like in reality. I believe this will add a LOT to immersion compared to being forced to look straight ahead. If you could quickly flick your eyes to the left or right and actually SEE what is there in games like COD, it would be awesome.

[Synexious]

I am very, very interested in your PR5. Which microdisplay are you using? The same 800x600 0.81" Kopin? Three in landscape, right? That is perfect for 3D Vision Surround. I would prefer at least 1280x720, though - I've asked somewhere before, but could you use the OLEDs from three HMZs/SmartGoggles/ST1080s? Wow, that would be awesome. But I'd actually still prefer your PR5 over my HMZ-T1, even at 800x600. Do you plan on releasing details and pictures soon? And do you have a pricerange? 270 degrees is beyond amazing. When did you last use a Sensics, though? They claim their HMDs are "near-seamless."

Wired, I thought contacts would be a hassle until I started using them. I struggled to apply them for the first hour, but after that, had almost no problems. Over a hundred million people wear contacts. If people could have an immersive, always-on AR experience with lightweight, totally inconspicuous glasses, they would wear contacts. It's not difficult or uncomfortable (or expensive) at all. Certainly, VR enthusiasts would flock to them if they offered the best experience. I agree that high resolution in the periphery will increase immersion, but the technology is just now taking off. I think we'll have "20/20" virtual vision by 2020 - 4K (maybe even 8K - SMD says they've done 4K already are developing 8K) per eye, look anywhere, see game.

[ERP]

I am very, very interested in your PR5. Which microdisplay are you using? The same 800x600 0.81" Kopin? Three in landscape, right? That is perfect for 3D Vision Surround. I would prefer at least 1280x720, though - I've asked somewhere before, but could you use the OLEDs from three HMZs/SmartGoggles/ST1080s? Wow, that would be awesome. But I'd actually still prefer your PR5 over my HMZ-T1, even at 800x600. Do you plan on releasing details and pictures soon? And do you have a pricerange? 270 degrees is beyond amazing. When did you last use a Sensics, though? They claim their HMDs are "near-seamless."

Wired, I thought contacts would be a hassle until I started using them. I struggled to apply them for the first hour, but after that, had almost no problems. Over a hundred million people wear contacts. If people could have an immersive, always-on AR experience with lightweight, totally inconspicuous glasses, they would wear contacts. It's not difficult or uncomfortable (or expensive) at all. Certainly, VR enthusiasts would flock to them if they offered the best experience. I agree that high resolution in the periphery will increase immersion, but the technology is just now taking off. I think we'll have "20/20" virtual vision by 2020 - 4K (maybe even 8K - SMD says they've done 4K already are developing 8K) per eye, look anywhere, see game.

I actually looked at what it would cost to get a set of contacts with enough magnification to lose the optics completely, making you basically legally blind while wearing them.
For contacts with that sort of magnification, it's still very expensive.

[cybereality]

I actually looked at what it would cost to get a set of contacts with enough magnification to lose the optics completely, making you basically legally blind while wearing them.

The scary part is: how would you take them off?

[WiredEarp]

Yeah, I actually wear contacts, but I wouldn't be bothered taking them out and putting in special ones just to use a headset. I have a short attention span so usually dont game for more than 30 minutes or so at a time (BF3 and Skyrim changing this a little atm

It would be too much of a PITA to put them in and out IMHO. Now, if they had display tech built in to my normal contacts, sure.

Also, a LOT of people claim they'd never get used to sticking stuff in their eye and wouldn't even want to try. Personally, I didn't find them hard to get used to when I started. However, there are also human factors with contacts that are problematic, especially when combined with videogames. When playing games, you blink less, and this can cause them to feel uncomfortable. I used to find my eyes tearing up after a couple of hours of arcade gaming. Also, unless they have high oxygen permeability (and these lenses are usually thinner), there can be problems with long term wearing of them. Add that to people wearing their normal contacts all day, and they probably wont want to put in more when they go home (generally it is recommended you not wear contacts more than 12 hours a day).

[Okta]

Contacts will not work. Say you get some super magnification contacts and bung 2, 3 inch screens in front of your eyeballs. The distance to the edge of the screen will be 4-5 times the distance to the centre of the screen so the focus will be so far out as to be useless.