S-3D solution for MultiSOCKET mainboard - OS & compatibility

[elector]

Hello guys,

I'm not a totally beginner in S-3D but I'm still not really experienced. My previous system was not very well set for S-3D (low performance & unsupported main OS);
as I have to begin recognizing, my new system - which I thought to be a good choice for S-3D - isn't such well suited either.

I've choosen a bunch of hardware I always dreamed of - but I got in great trouble with it. All problems seemed to be solved yet, except the main issue: setting up a powerful S-3D solution!


My current system overview (the important things):

CPU: 2x Dual Core (= 4 cores, 2 Sockets -> this produces OS issues!)
GPU: 1x GTX285 (Important: 1 PCI-E x16 free for another (graphics-)card - I'll need a second one for multi monitors (NOT S-3D - only desktop))
OS: w2k server, winXP Pro available


I hardly had to accept that - from what I heard and tried - it's impossible to set-up a S-3D environment with this config. I should have informed me earlier ... such a ****!

Key issue is that I need current revision drivers from NVIDIA with stereo support for my GTX285 which doesn't work on w2k (only normal 3D until revision 197.45 works) and third-party software doesn't run on that OS either.
Cause of the multi-socket board, only MS server systems are compatible if I want to use all processors. I like the smallness and efficiency (-> smartness) of w2k as well as the lacking of activation (this is important for me, because I'm a really "hardware modifying and changing freak" - I need a configuration change every week ... otherwise I'll be sad), so w2k server was a cheap and evident solution, I thought.

Now I'm fustrated that my visions become illusions ... my S-3D is still as far away as with my old computer which is blasting his last power away for a website flash-animation. Only NoScript and Flashblocker make surfing barely sufferable. So, key issue is:

How do I have to modify my system for a powerful S-3D solution?

Both new hardware and/or new software (OS) is intended, but keep in mind that the overall GPU performance should be superior or equivalent to a G80.
A maximum reachable compatibility should be achieved, because I run many older simulations (this is the main field of application). A S-3D OpenGL support is not necessary but desired (most sims work with Direct3D). I've affinity to modding if I have an instruction for that - so if there is a tricky solution: Give it to me!

Important: The choosen S-3D technology is a CRT & Shutter combination - cheap and effective! No more ambitions ...

Would have had the originally planned GPU setup with two G92b in SLI mode better chances? I had to abolish that cause of shortness of supplies. But as I read even a G80 needs driver revisions which have not a w2k or XP compatible 3D Vision counterpart.

I've heard that the last winXP compatible S-3D setup would be with the 7900GTX. Does this apply also to w2k (which is nearly (unfortunately only nearly) similar to XP)? If yes (or with a few dll-mods), a SLI config could be a solution, couldn't it?

Please help, I NEED S-3D, I've been waiting for so long ...

[Fredz]

How do I have to modify my system for a powerful S-3D solution?

With the same GPU, you need Windows 7 and the 3D Vision kit. You can also probably make other shutter glasses work with that combination (the ones you can activate separately, such as the eDimensional) using a recently published hack for the 3D Vision driver. You won't have OpenGL support though, and older games that were compatible with the older NVIDIA stereo driver won't always work with the 3D Vision driver. Older meaning < 2008 here.

If you want to keep the same system (XP/W2K) you need a 7950 GPU or lower as you expected, but you'll then be able to use older and cheaper shutter glasses (eDimensional, Elsa Revelator), have the expected compatibility for older games and OpenGL support. In this case you won't have an overall GPU performance equivalent or superior to a G80 though. Not sure about SLI support too.

[cybereality]

You may have some luck with Windows 7 and the Nvidia 3D Vision glasses. The old XP Nvidia driver will only work up to the 7000 series (8800+ is NOT supported), but it also doesn't work with dual-core processors (you can probably forget dual-chip dual-core). It may be possible to disable one chip and one core of the remaining chip and then get it to work, but I'm not sure how much power would be left.

Or you could just forget Nvidia and their tom-foolery and go with another solution, like IZ3D or DDD. If you get a Zalman Trimon monitor, it should work with basically any configuration you could imagine. Even integrated Intel graphics (although the performance sucks). You can test this with the anaglyph (red/cyan) mode for free to see if it works with your setup. I will even send you a pair of paper anaglyph glasses for free so you can check this out. Just PM me with your mailing address and I will send them out (I ship worldwide).

[elector]

With the same GPU, you need Windows 7 and the 3D Vision kit. [...] You won't have OpenGL support though, and older games that were compatible with the older NVIDIA stereo driver won't always work with the 3D Vision driver. Older meaning < 2008 here.

This is unacceptable to me. In fact, I nearly run nothing newer than 2008 so I'll need great backward compatibility. Because of that, Win7 seems to be also very critical: As I'm correct informed, a bunch of old software runs on win7 only on a (winXP-)VM which doesn't support any advanced 3D environments. So if the regular "a bit compatibility mode without VM" doesn't work for my old sims (which is likely the case, I think), I totally get stucked. Furthermore, win7 has the same socket limitations as w2k (home & pro) or XP.
By the way, I noticed XP Pro running successful on dual-core, dual socket with all four cores. So my decision for winXP is nearly taken. I was mistaken by the multicore vs. multisocket discussion. After making investigations I come to the conclusion that winXP as well as win7 limitations only take care of sockets, NOT of cores: There is no license limitation in terms of number of cores. Theoretically, winXP runs with up to 256 cores, but only with few sockets (Home/Pro: 1/2 sockets). Win7 supports max. of 2 sockets in Ultimate/Enterprise license but only 1 in all inferior versions.
For multisocket support beyond 2, server equivalents are needed.

The old XP Nvidia driver will only work up to the 7000 series (8800+ is NOT supported), but it also doesn't work with dual-core processors (you can probably forget dual-chip dual-core). It may be possible to disable one chip and one core of the remaining chip and then get it to work, but I'm not sure how much power would be left.

Can I disable the cores on-the-fly just before I start the stereo application (make them invisible to it)? If you have to deactivate cores global (for the whole system, not only for the dedicated *.exe) this would mean that you must deactivate them before system start, wouldn't it? This causes great uncomfortableness and heavy to critical performance losses. I'm a bit overtaken by your statement. So, old NVIDIA stereo drivers are not runnalbe on a multicore-system and new NVIDIA stereo drivers only run on Vista/win7 without support for a bit older software? That sucks!

Or you could just forget Nvidia and their tom-foolery and go with another solution, like IZ3D or DDD.

With winXP as OS this sounds to be the way with the fewest problems. But as I know, more than a few Direct3D applications doesn't run on IZ3D and I had problems with hanging systems and large retards. All in all it was neither very compatible nor very stable. Sorry to say, but in my opinion: Better than nothing but not very cute. About DDD I can't say anything ...

I'm thinking of buying a 7900GTX or 7950GT additionally to put it in my second PCI-E x16 slot. But I'm also very sure that this would cause great driver issues because I'll need two different detonator revisions (the newer for the GTX285 and the older for the stereo bundle driving the G71), and one of them working together with the old stereoscopic driver. All in all I would than probably have to throw my GTX285 in trash for an ATI one to fit it.
I've especially bought a NVIDIA card for S-3D. What a wash-out ...

[cybereality]

Well iz3D has decent support, but its not as comprehensive as Nvidia. DDD is probably at the end of the pack, especially with older titles, but newer titles seem to work good. Nvidia supposedly support DirectX7 - Dx11 (on new driver) but some older games (below Dx9) do not work anymore. With the old legacy Nvidia XP driver, many more older titles are supported and even OpenGL on some driver versions. IZ3D is Dx8-9 with some rudimentary support for Dx10-11. DDD is mainly Dx9, but they have added Dx10-11 support recently. But if you are looking to play old games, your best bet is the XP Nvidia driver. I would suggest building a separate rig just for this purpose, with series 7000 GeForce card on Windows XP. Getting old used parts should be cheap, I assume. Something like a P4 3GHz would probably be fine for those types of games.

[Fredz]

I would suggest building a separate rig just for this purpose, with series 7000 GeForce card on Windows XP. Getting old used parts should be cheap, I assume. Something like a P4 3GHz would probably be fine for those types of games.

That's exactly what I've done for my HTPC, I've found a used Dell Dimension 4600 (P4 3GHz) for 35€ and I've put my old GeForce 7600 GT inside to be able to play 3D games and view 3D movies with my DLP 3D projector. I'm using the 162.50 NVIDIA drivers (standard + stereo) with eDimensional glasses and it's been very enjoyable for now.

I've also added an USB converter to be able to use my older Playstation gamepads, which is really great for occasional gaming sessions with friends. The main drawback is that I can't play with any game released after 2007, but I'm more gameplay than graphics oriented, so that's really not a problem for me.