3D Vision's Future...

[Seanicy]

Ok I need to get things straight...If this is in the wrong place I am sorry.

Ok I just sold my Asus 5850 and am going back to the green side. That said I also picked up an Nvidia 3D Vision kit and am using it on my Mitsubishi 3D Ready DLP. Now my concern is how am I supposed to play the 3D Blue-rays? I know of the new HDMI 1.4 standard, but am still confused as to why a new standard? I mean are we as current 3D HDTV owners supposed to ditch are set and pick up a new TV just to be able to play the 3D Blyu-ray. I know Nvidia's HDTV 3D Play software only supports the new 1.4 TV's so where do us current 3D TV owners stand?

I am a little worried if made a bad money move and sold out ATI for Nvidia and now have to buy another TV just for 3D Blu-ray support. I have a GTX480 already on pre-order and am wondering if I should cancel and go back and try to find a solution that supports all. I know Nvidia worked with Cyberlink and the like to support 3D Blu-ray, but how are we as 3D Vision owners supposed to watch 3D Blue-rays? I mean 3D Vision requires the driver to activate the glasses, so how would we sync the glasses if we are not using the PC and only a 3D TV and a 3D Blu-ray player? This is what confuses me the most. I am really scared I made a $200 mistake, and possibly another $500 mistake.

If anyone understands what I am trying to say and knows anything about said topic please post up, I am no fan of waisting money and it seems like thats all I have done.

[ssiu]

For connecting your computer to your 3D TV, you are all covered -- you can play 3D games, and computer software 3D Blu-Ray players (e.g. Cyberlink PowerDVD 10) should support your TV natively.

For non-computer use with HDMI 1.4 3D signals (e.g. PS3, standalone 3D Blu-Ray, 3D set-top boxes) -- (1) Mitsubishi is taking good care of their customers by making a 3D converter to make their 3D TVs compatible with HDMI 1.4 3D signals. (google "Mitsubishi 3DC-1000"), but (2) NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses will almost certainly not work -- NIVIDIA only intends it to work with computers. You almost certainly have to buy new 3D glasses.

EDIT: Seems like NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses do connect to the DLP 3D TV's sync port (and not to the computer). So it may actually work with non-computer 3D signals. I don't have first-hand experience so I'm not sure.

[ssiu]

P.S. Given your Mitsubishi 3D TV, I do think you made some wrong choices in selling the ATI 5850 and buying NVIDIA 3D Vision. I think the optimal choice would be

-- buy non-NVIDIA 3D glasses that work with the sync signal generated by the 3D TV itself
-- use iZ3D's 3D checkerboard driver for 3D computer games (the driver is free for ATI owners; it also works with NVIDIA cards but then the driver costs $50)
-- computer software 3D Blu-Ray players (PowerDVD 10) should work natively with the above non-NVIDIA 3D glasses
-- for HDMI 1.4 3D signals (PS3, standalone 3D Blu-Ray player, 3D set-top box etc.) buy the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 converter -- should work with above non-NVIDIA 3D glasses.

EDIT: if the NVIDIA 3D glasses will work on your 3D TV without computer (i.e. the TV providing the sync signal), then you didn't make too bad a mistake. Hopefully someone else can confirm yes or no ...

[cybereality]

You should be fine. PowerDVD 10 will be supporting checkerboard displays. You will, however, need to be using a PC with a BD player. Otherwise I think Mitsubishi has a converter box which will work with standalone BluRay players. In terms of gaming I expect Nvidia to continue supporting their glasses and drivers for some time so you should be fine on that front. And the GTX 480 looks like a killer card. Don't have any regrets dude.

[smoothy]

this fixes all problems with current 3d tv's sync ports only allowing glasses from the tv make

http://www.xpandcinema.com/news/43/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; new x103 glasses work on all models including nvidia 3d vision coming in june, sites suggest price to be around $125-$150, if this 3d really catches on, I guess the price of these will drop significantly. With active 3d tv's being cheaper than polarized, if only they can then get active glasses cheaper then maybe we won't need polarized tv's. isn't active 3d just as good?

look at the specs on these, they have 250 hours battery life

http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/X103-home/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DmitryKo]

Seems like NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses do connect to the DLP 3D TV's sync port (and not to the computer). So it may actually work with non-computer 3D signals. I don't have first-hand experience so I'm not sure.

if the NVIDIA 3D glasses will work on your 3D TV without computer (i.e. the TV providing the sync signal), then you didn't make too bad a mistake. Hopefully someone else can confirm yes or no ...

This topic has been beaten to death times and times before. Nvidia 3D Vision kit only works with a PC that features an Nvidia graphics card and the 3D Vision stereo driver for Windows Vista/7.

Even when you use the glasses with the VESA Stereo connector in the DLP TV, the emitter will not work in standalone mode. The stereo signal should come from a PC with proper video card and drivers, that's the only supported configuration.

[smoothy]

Even when you use the glasses with the VESA Stereo connector in the DLP TV, the emitter will not work in standalone mode. The stereo signal should come from a PC with proper video card and drivers, that's the only supported configuration.

But the link to the new x103 xpand glasses will change all this right?

[DmitryKo]

the new x103 xpand glasses will change all this right?

Yes, however you will need to buy the optional emitter if you need to work with the PC.

http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[smoothy]

the new x103 xpand glasses will change all this right?

Yes, however you will need to buy the optional emitter if you need to work with the PC.

http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought you don't need the optional emitter if you are using nvidia cards fitted with hdmi 1.4 cables and using the new nvidia 3d tv play software?

[DmitryKo]

This is correct, though I was referring to gaming with a 120 Hz PC monitor or laptop.

Also, 3DTV Play only supports the mandatory HDMI 3D formats, so you will be limited to 720p stereo gaming, while many HDMI 3D TVs will also support additional PC-only "half-resolution" gaming formats such as checkerboard, line interleaved, column interleaved, side-by-side, and top-bottom, which work over standard 1080p60 signal.
You will sync directly to the built-in emitter in the TV, so you don't need an emitter or 3DTV Play software in this case, but you will need a stereo-enabled game such as Avatar which supports these formats, and probably need to buy a stereo driver license from iZ3D or DDD/Tridef to play older games with no native stereo support, since Nvidia will not support these formats in the 3D Vision/3DTV Play drivers.

There are no new HDMI 1.4 cables, HDMI 3D requres standard High Speed (Category 2) cables defined in HDMI 1.3 requirements.

[smoothy]

This is correct, though I was referring to gaming with a 120 Hz PC monitor or laptop.

Also, 3DTV Play only supports the mandatory HDMI 3D formats, so you will be limited to 720p stereo gaming, while many HDMI 3D TVs will also support additional PC-only "half-resolution" gaming formats such as checkerboard, line interleaved, column interleaved, side-by-side, and top-bottom, which work over standard 1080p60 signal.
You will sync directly to the built-in emitter in the TV, so you don't need an emitter or 3DTV Play software in this case, but you will need a stereo-enabled game such as Avatar which supports these formats, and probably need to buy a stereo driver license from iZ3D or DDD/Tridef to play older games with no native stereo support, since Nvidia will not support these formats in the 3D Vision/3DTV Play drivers.

There are no new HDMI 1.4 cables, HDMI 3D requres standard High Speed (Category 2) cables defined in HDMI 1.3 requirements.

Many thanks for your reply, lot's of useful information.

Do you know if 3d tv play will work with active 3d 720p projectors currently on the market that use HDMI 1.3 with the new xpand x103 glasses when they are released?

[Seanicy]

Ok I understand everthing about the stand alone 3D BD players needing glasses that hook up directly to the HDTV using HDMI 1.4...So does anyone know if Nvidia is going to help support DLP 3D BD support through software for people with the older 3D DLP's like the oppisit of 3D HDTV Play? I know the glasses have to be turned on through drivers on the PC which creates problems for stand alone 3D BD players...I have Cyberlink DVD 10 Ultra 3D and am loving it with my 3D Vision...Now the question is will any BD player for PC be able to play 3D BD? This is confusing as hell but well worth it...

[ssiu]

I have Cyberlink DVD 10 Ultra 3D and am loving it with my 3D Vision...Now the question is will any BD player for PC be able to play 3D BD? This is confusing as hell but well worth it...

It seems very clear to me from here http://www.cyberlink.com/products/power ... en_US.html that Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 Ultra 3D supports DLP 3D HDTVs. With the free update this summer you will be able to play 3D Blu-Ray. (Is that your question or are you asking about something else?)

And yes NVIDIA 3D Vision supports DLP 3D HDTVs since day one, http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_Vision_ ... ments.html (as long as you are connecting a PC with supported NVIDIA video card to the DLP 3D HDTV).

[DmitryKo]

will any BD player for PC be able to play 3D BD?

Why not, Blu-ray 3D uses Multiview Video Coding, an extesion to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, so every H.264 decoding engine can be adapted to support MVC.


In regard to displays, 3D DLP TVs (and some newer HDMI 3D sets) typically support manual PC-only formats such as checherboard, line/columnt interleaved, side-by-side half and top-bottom half. The player software can directly support all of the with little additional effort.

120 Hz 3D DLP projectors and CRT screens can be supported if player software directly talks to the graphics card drivers and uses the "quad buffered" mode, which gets converted to "page flipping" frame sequential 120 Hz in the driver. Currently both 3D Vision driver and AMD Catalyst support this mode, however Nvidia only supports "certified" projectors, blocking non-compliant models.

As for HDMI 3D, software players and middleware applications alone can not support it as far as I can tell. HDMI 3D requires additional work from the graphics driver to support the new revised protocol; so far only Nvidia announced compliant 3DTV Play driver, but hopefully ATI/AMD will follow suit. This shuld work similar to 120 Hz mode, the graphics card driver will convert "quad buffered" output to the HDMI 3D format.

if Nvidia is going to help support DLP 3D BD support through software for people with the older 3D DLP's

You don't really need this since BD player software can support the older 3D DLPs directly.

However as long as you are using 3D Vision drivers and have a supported DLP, any software that talks directly with the 3D Vision driver will work with these older 3DTVs too. In theory you can probably buy 3DTV Play in order to get a 3D Vision driver license, but then use the driver for DLP 3D support only, without the need to buy the 3D Vision glasses kit... if Nvidia does not block this scenario.

I have Cyberlink DVD 10 Ultra 3D and am loving it with my 3D Vision

Does Ultra 3D edition directly support 3D Vision drivers? It looks like the hardware requirements say they do, I just want to be sure...

[cybereality]

In theory you can probably buy 3DTV Play in order to get a 3D Vision driver license, but then use the driver for DLP 3D support only, without the need to buy the 3D Vision glasses kit... if Nvidia does not block this scenario.

Given their actions in the past, do you really think they would allow this?

[DmitryKo]

We shall see. Anyway it's only relevant for stereo 3D gaming - as I said, software Blu-ray 3D players can directly support the 3D DLPs checherboard format.

[Seanicy]

Ok I got everything in order with the 3D Blu-ray cause CyberLink got my money with 10 Ultra 3D so i'm good...Now I own a HD DirecTV box and in June they plan on launching 3 3D channesl. How would I be able to watch these channels with my 3D Vision on my old 60Hz DLP? The Nvidia glasses only turn on with a computer in the mix with drivers and programs right? I wrote up Nvidia for an answer but they might beat around the bush alot till the details arise. I just want to make sure I am kind of future proofing my setup. Thanks for the info thus far, you guys are awesome!

[ssiu]

The Nvidia glasses only turn on with a computer in the mix with drivers and programs right? I wrote up Nvidia for an answer but they might beat around the bush alot till the details arise. I just want to make sure I am kind of future proofing my setup.

At this point you have to assume that NVIDIA glasses only work with computer + NVIDIA video card. NVIDIA had never set it would work with anything else (PS3, standalone 3D Blu-Ray players or set-top boxes etc.). If NVIDIA extend support in the future then that is great for you, but they never promised it.

[Amagai]

I can confirm that by starting a 3d video in Nvidias stereoscopic player, making sure it is set to loop play on the PC, I can then flip over to TV input and change my DLP to 3D mode and boom the green eye brightens up and is working...however I have not actually tested it with a 3d BD player, if it works and it should since the nvidia drivers are fooled into activating the emitter, and the emitter is actually controlled by the DLPs vesa link, all the nvidia drivers are for is basically to power the emitter...so theoretically if I have a 3D bd player that can support checkerboard like the Panasonic player does, I should be able to use the nvidia glasses and emitter with whatever comes onto my television...any thoughts on how I might be wrong or right?

[Anthony1]

Ok I got everything in order with the 3D Blu-ray cause CyberLink got my money with 10 Ultra 3D so i'm good...Now I own a HD DirecTV box and in June they plan on launching 3 3D channesl. How would I be able to watch these channels with my 3D Vision on my old 60Hz DLP? The Nvidia glasses only turn on with a computer in the mix with drivers and programs right? I wrote up Nvidia for an answer but they might beat around the bush alot till the details arise. I just want to make sure I am kind of future proofing my setup. Thanks for the info thus far, you guys are awesome!

Some people think, that it might be possible to get Direct TV 3D working by using a Avertv HD DVR capture card and Stereoscopic Player. Basically, you would need a Avertv HD DVR capture card on your computer, and you would connect the hdmi cable from the Direct TV box, into the hdmi input on the avertv card. Then you use Stereoscopic "Live Video" option. It still hasn't been confirmed whether or not this will actually work or not. HDCP could make this not possible.

[BlackShark]

HDCP is not the only thing that could make this setup not work :
S.O.C (selectable output control), could also disable the YUV port and force the transmission to occur in FullHD or require hdmi1.4 protocol, making that capture card incapable of grabbing any picture.

[Amagai]

Okay so anyway, I grabbed Arcsofts TMT3 Platinum and the new 3d Plugin...it is a new plug in and needs some tweaking but it works really well. It converts 2D to 3D realtime even can view 2d photos in 3D...it can convert all 2D videos I have tried and photos to 3D, not permanently lol, just while you view them.
It also plays 3D bluray files or discs...with the Nvidia glasses and emitter Except for a few features it hopefully will add over the next few weeks/months it is a well done piece of work...I am very happy

[Likay]

Are you sure it's 3d and not just a randomly doubled image?

[Amagai]

You can call it how you see it, I call like I see it...sim3D

obviously you can't "convert" a 2D file to true 3D as the information does not exist on the frame for 3 dimensions...however, at really high
depth levels especially on cgi it looks darn good. I am fairly new to this and am impressed, perhaps the jaded ones have a different opinion

[tritosine5G]

in audio we call fake stereo pseudo stereo.

[Amagai]

Like mono split to 2 channels? hehehe

[Seanicy]

I can confirm that by starting a 3d video in Nvidias stereoscopic player, making sure it is set to loop play on the PC, I can then flip over to TV input and change my DLP to 3D mode and boom the green eye brightens up and is working...however I have not actually tested it with a 3d BD player, if it works and it should since the nvidia drivers are fooled into activating the emitter, and the emitter is actually controlled by the DLPs vesa link, all the nvidia drivers are for is basically to power the emitter...so theoretically if I have a 3D bd player that can support checkerboard like the Panasonic player does, I should be able to use the nvidia glasses and emitter with whatever comes onto my television...any thoughts on how I might be wrong or right?

Haven't been on in a while, just got my PC up and running again. I want to thank you all for your replies! Now Amagai, I see your logic but the issue with my 3D ready TV is the HDMI port needed to run the 3D would be through port #3. Can I get a HDMI switch and just use the switch to go back and forth between PC and TV inputs?

I know Mitsubishi is releasing an adaptor for converting the new 3D standards to my TV's native checkerboard format for $99. So till I get this adaptor I am SOL besides my 3D'ing on my PC of course...

Way too much 3D confusion out there right now...

[jhonsadins]

Seems like NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses do connect to the DLP 3D TV's sync port (and not to the computer). So it may actually work with non-computer 3D signals. I don't have first-hand experience so I'm not sure.

[BlackShark]

The 3D sync port trick with 3D vision glasses has been known for over 6 months.

When using a DLP rear projection TV, the emitter gets the sync from the 3D sync plug directly from the TV, but the usb connection to the PC is still mandatory to switch the glasses on.
You'll need some software running on the pc to authorise the emitter to fire up : either a game or a 3D vision approved application with all the 3D vision drivers properly installed and running on the PC.