What the hell are NVIDIA playing at!?!?!?!?!?

[simonpittock]

This is a rant to the cyber-air around me, if someone has an answer then please share it with me...

In March this year I purchased an eMagin Z800 stereo goggle OLED headset, importing it at some cost from the US to the UK. At the time I had a GeForce 7300GT card which alas malfunctioned a day before the headset arrived. I had been promising myself a really meaty card for years and years and so went for an 8800 GTS, not quite the top of the range but nevertheless a powerful bit of kit. The card is fantastic....

I was aware at the time that the NVIDIA "consumer" stereo drivers were not available for this card but I went ahead believing that within a month or two this would be addressed. It is now November, 8 MONTHS ON and there is still no working solution from NVIDIA. I know that it has been said on this forum before that comments should be positive to encourage developers to do just that, but this is beyond a joke now. Whilst small companies like iZ3D bring out what appears to be a fantastic system with their own fully featured drivers, NVIDIA, one of the leading GFX card designers cannot get their act together and get an existing and proven technology to work for their newer cards.

I have spent the best part of ?500 for a very expensive way to watch videos, and whilst the large screen effect of goggles certainly makes for an immersive viewing experience, I could have saved myself a whole lot of money and just sat really close to my 25" monitor!

What the hell NVIDIA!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

[sharky]

Hi!

this reply may look like an attack, but it ISN'T..its more an explanation...

ok look at your postnumber.. you have only one.. but you're in the 3D since march(near a year)... youre a bit late in posting.. we just passed 1700 real subscriptions, and october was a superb month for the site statistics.. we destroyed ALL the previous records, and got 400.000 clicks more that the previous month (nearly twice as much).

now immagine one guy, who asks nvidia for stereodrivers.. nvidia is for shure not even going to read the mail...

and now immagine some thousends of guys writing to nvidia, asking for drivers.. the impact will be really different. were a small community compared to the number of gamers, but were growing very fast. but as long as we are small we need every single user to subscribe and contribute! yes every single user is important! check out what denaris alone, reached in the advocacy section.. if everyone does at least 10% of what he did nvidia is going to bring the drivers in our homes, on a gold-plpate, and installing them for us. the problem is that like you (again, its not an attack, its an explanation on how sadly marketing works) check the forum, read but dont subscribe. this makes us appear as a smallaer community then we are..

i hope that this post makes some other interested readers subscribe..

anyway to your question. nvidia stereo drivers for vista and 8800 should be released in december..

oh, and even if late, welcome onboard..

bye


igor

[simonpittock]

Thanks for the reply...

You missed the point somewhat and made quite a few assumptions there. I have emailed NVIDIA 9 times this year on this matter expressing my desire for the drivers (in a positive light). Just because I do not post here does not mean I have sat on my thumbs and then complained because nothing has been done. I am a busy person running my own Web Design company and have very little time to get involved in anything major at the moment... I've barely had time to even play any games this year!

As for my length of time as a 3D user, I have been using NVIDIA and stereo 3D for many years, my interest in 3D having been started by an old game Magic Carpet from Win95 days which had SIRDS 3D/Anaglyph mode which was just amazing stuff to me at the time. I have been through various solutions including shutter glasses, HMDs, visors and of course my trusty old coloured film specs!

I have loyally stuck with NVIDIA throughout except for my laptop where I was forced to choose from a range of ATI cards when it was replaced under warranty with a new range. My point is that NVIDIA is a large company with the resources to handle these things and yet they do not. I am facing the same situation with my Nokia N95 at the moment, endless delays and waiting for them to update the system firmware to make it work properly. I was not expecting NVIDIA to read this, that's why I emailed them directly 9 times... I was just commenting "to the air" about yet another large company treating loyal long-term customers with such contempt. The fact that mtbs3d is pushing so hard attests to this, but I do think everyone here is doing a great job with it however.

So, late or not... I can offer my services as a web designer (gratis of course) now that I have a lot more free time, so if there is anything I can do just let me know. In the mean time I shall wait with baited breath for December to bring the driver release...

Please don't see this as a stroppy response, it is not my intention to have a go or be negative.

Cheers,

Simon.

[Freke1]

post edited:
You got to wonder what Nvidia is thinking...

[Neil]

Hi Guys!

Simonpittock:

Welcome to the forums! Better late than never, that's what I say!

Thanks for your offer. Maybe we'll take you up on it in the future. You should check out our website ideas forum. We are going through an overhaul piece by piece, and we are looking for some good concept ideas to bring this website's look up a notch.

I know your ticked at NVIDIA. MTBS is more about encouraging game developers to follow programming standards so that NVIDIA, iZ3D, and eventually others can release drivers that work better. It's a two sided coin. Sharky is right that according to Zalman's site, NVIDIA is expected to have something new come December. If you try their latest Forceware drivers, you will see that they already include some stereo components that are not yet activated.


Freke:

Nice initiative there, but please don't encourage that. That's a great idea for game developers, but for NVIDIA, it could harm our working relationship. I assure you, when the drivers are available, they will be made available here. I think the current Forceware driver and Zalman website announcement are a strong indicator of that.


Have fun everybody!

Regards,
Neil

[sharky]

Thanks for the reply...

You missed the point somewhat and made quite a few assumptions there. I have emailed NVIDIA 9 times this year on this matter expressing my desire for the drivers (in a positive light). Just because I do not post here does not mean I have sat on my thumbs and then complained because nothing has been done. I am a busy person running my own Web Design company and have very little time to get involved in anything major at the moment... I've barely had time to even play any games this year!

As for my length of time as a 3D user, I have been using NVIDIA and stereo 3D for many years, my interest in 3D having been started by an old game Magic Carpet from Win95 days which had SIRDS 3D/Anaglyph mode which was just amazing stuff to me at the time. I have been through various solutions including shutter glasses, HMDs, visors and of course my trusty old coloured film specs!

I have loyally stuck with NVIDIA throughout except for my laptop where I was forced to choose from a range of ATI cards when it was replaced under warranty with a new range. My point is that NVIDIA is a large company with the resources to handle these things and yet they do not. I am facing the same situation with my Nokia N95 at the moment, endless delays and waiting for them to update the system firmware to make it work properly. I was not expecting NVIDIA to read this, that's why I emailed them directly 9 times... I was just commenting "to the air" about yet another large company treating loyal long-term customers with such contempt. The fact that mtbs3d is pushing so hard attests to this, but I do think everyone here is doing a great job with it however.

So, late or not... I can offer my services as a web designer (gratis of course) now that I have a lot more free time, so if there is anything I can do just let me know. In the mean time I shall wait with baited breath for December to bring the driver release...

Please don't see this as a stroppy response, it is not my intention to have a go or be negative.

Cheers,

Simon.

ok i was wrong, sorry for that..

but you will agree, that there are a lot of other users wich read and are too lazy to subscribe and post.

i was wrong on you, but you willa gree that there was a 90% chance to be right..

by the way, if you want i would like to chat with you on MSN, i would have soem things to ask you about the site design.. my contact is sharkyenergy AT hotmail DOT com.

cu soon and sorry again.

igor

[Jahun]

Now don't call them lazy

Perhaps "unaware that when interest by many gamers is proven, the companies will respond" is a better wording.. or so

[CarlKenner]

I bet you anything you like that you are wrong, and that nvidia have had stereo drivers for vista for like a year. The jerks just refuse to release them until they feel like it.

[Likay]

I don't get it. Why would they keep a hold on stereodrivers when there are people wanting them? For more money? Well, i haven't heard any claims yet.
Sadistic reasons? Well, even i might have been bashing a little to them but i think they're more mature than that.
Personally i still believe the main reason is that they have to get vistadrivers working properly and all new games with their new inventions... It's simply the fact that stereo3d is not that high on their priority list though and unfortunately we're not in majority. (Yet, this is a subject under change! )

cheers

[Jahun]

Ow come on.. keep the driver from us? I suppose they kept the normal ForceWare driver for Vista from the world too?

Like Likay, my bet is they have been coding their asses off on getting the normal drivers to work in the first place. That has been a tremendously bigger priority than some stereo drivers and probably sucked in all they could spare. After spending an enormous amount of money on developing their new card range they'd be mad to start working on side projects while the main driovers were not fully functional.

On the bright side, that's cleared up it seems, so I'd not be surprised if there is a new stereo driver the end of this year.


Last time I checked, Nvidia is the only company giving us free stereo drivers anyway and untill otherwise proven, cut them some slack. Nowhere on the package of your vid. card was any advertisement on the stereo capabilities of the card.. you get it as an extra, beta.

[simonpittock]

Ooops, I didn't mean to stir up a nest of vipers there I suspect it's fairly unlikely guys that NVIDIA would withhold drivers that they have already written from their customer base when there is a clear (even if for now in the minority) core of users who want them...

Cheers Neil, I hope I can make a contribution in some way to the site and help promote this important field in computing, sometimes commercial forces don't always drive innovation in the right direction and I think you're doing a bang up job to change things.

Keep up the great work

[Jahun]

Vipersssss... what vipersssss...

[RAGEdemon]

Hello simonpittock,

I have been in the same situation as you mate. I got the 8800 back when it was released and waited a year... I couldnt take it anymore... playing games without stereo is such a waste.

I gave up and purchased an iZ3D. Been stereo gaming for weeks now... it arrived just in time for HL2E2, and as of 20 mins ago, have just finished Portal... and what an amazing game it was... I can't believe I'd have wasted them both by playing them without stereo if i didnt have the iZ3D.


My advice to you my friend: Sell your z800. I personally believe that stereo drivers from nVidia won't be around anytime soon so all your z800 is doing is collecting dust and depreciating in value.

Zalman have their own agenda... its extremely likely that they don't know what they are talking about, much like the duke nukem forever release dates you see posted on amazon.com every now and then, this is most likely pure conjecture etc

Look into an iZ3D... it has its advantages and disadvantages, but if you are a hardcore stereogamer, i think you will feel comfortable with the purchase in the end... i bought 2... albeit the one im using was at a somewhat reduced price from a forum.

Where in the UK are you? If you need one, I have an unopened one lying beside me which will be going up on eBay nearer christmas - unless someone wants to make me a decent offer

Like yourself, I have invested heavily in stereo and nVidia... I have 2 projectors here both setup with shutter glasses... I have had z800 and i-glasses svga3d in the past... what good are they without nVidia's drivers?

Even if nVidia does make stereo drivers for december or anytime soon, what are the chances that thy will support post processing? Every game but none uses post processing, hdr, bloom, shaders etc etc anyone want to hold their breath?

iZ3D have the driver ow, and a new improved one is always a couple of months away.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but I feel there is way too much sugar coating and over optimism going on on these forums... we all look like 13 year old fanbois and its not good for anyone. A quick reality check will confirm most of the things I have said above.

-- Mr Cynical.

PS if anyone does want to hold their breath, please post so that I may start the proverbial timer.

[genetic]

Ok, first off. Your z800 is not being wasted. Last weekend I had a wonderful time playing Team fortress 2 in outstanding 3D and acceptable headtracking. I also played through portal and once again with that often underrated headtracking had a very vivid experience.

Just wait until late December to give the new driver rumor one more chance and if nothing comes out then I think spending $150 on a 7000 card if far less of a waist than buying that expensive monitor.

As for the lazy argument. Admins; Stop siding with nvidia and your sponsors so much. Instead of being the voice of our concerns it often seems that you are suppressing our calls for action. You are giving off the impression that you are more interested in how this webpage will affect your own futures than how it can best meet the goals of the community.

What am I doing for the community? Nothing. You got me there.

[Neil]

Woah!

Genetic, you seem really angry. Why are you so angry?

In addition to iZ3D, MTBS is partially sponsored by TDVision Systems Inc., and like Emagin, theirs is an HMD solution based on NVIDIA drivers. MTBS wants further driver success from NVIDIA and better video game compatibility for all S-3D consumers. Our industry can't succeed long-term based on a single S-3D hardware solution.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "you are more interested in how this webpage will affect your own futures than how it can best meet the goals of the community". You have it in reverse. It's the accomplishment of our community goals that determines our personal futures.

Do you have some website ideas? Do you have something to share? I'm open to just about everything except a mob with torches.

Regards,
Neil

[Jahun]

I am with Genetic that the Z800 isn't wasted..
Perhaps it doesn't work with the 8xxx series cards yet, but with a 7xxx series a HL2 Ep2 experience for instance is amazing!

Sure not all works yet, but I really think Nvidia had bigger concerns on their mind and S-3D is not their prime effort. They'll come with drivers..
If you want care free 3D now, go for IZ3D (no I am not just backing up the sponsor of a site I have no connection to, I really think it is a good option.. since they have drivers.. what else?). If you don't care about the occasional hassle and only a selection of games, Nvidia is fine too. (what I am using)


But Genetic, what do you want the site owners to do to voice our concerns? Do they suppress calls for action? The only calls for action usually concern Nvidia, and they're not likely to listen quickly unless there is a big leverage of interested users, something that is getting accomplished here.. or hopefully will I guess.


Sure there is a bit of sugarcoating and optimism on these boards, but truly, would it help anything if we all started nagging about there not being new drivers yet? Better to be positive and nag a little and focus on getting info spread to grow a userbase and use that leverage.

If anyone makes a buck on the initiative to make that happen, I couldn't care less (anymore). It's not like the past is full of great volunteer community initiatives anyway.

But to join in on the pleas for support:
Nvidia if you read this, gimme drivers and I'll buy a 8800 GT right away.. Bioshock awaits me...

[crim3]

I add to the support to the z800's cause
... and to the faith in new stereo drivers from nvidia

I don't think that is a good idea to blame on any stereo 3D solution.

[genetic]

Im not angry. I just saw the op come on here looking for a place to vent about a frustrating situation. Im guessing all he really wanted was to be reminded that there are other people out there that feel the same.

Instead, one admin calls him lazy and the other implies that only positive statements are helpful.

I just thought that was a shame.

Let the man have his vent.

[sharky]

hi..

what i said, is not that he is lazy. i said (erroneously) that he subscribes, reades and after more then a half of a year he posts that nothing is coming.. in THAT case i do not agree.. i have never said something like that to RAGE who had also a lot of negative comments like this against nvidida, because he was always active.

i think that you got some things wrong.

mtbs3d has its contacts, is doing his job, and even if you dont know, there are a lot of things going on. so even if it is not posted, neil contacts nvidida regularely to ask for betas and so on.

what i PERSONALLY (forget my admin rule for a moment) dont like, is if people come here, and start to post things they dont know. its one thing if you have a high possibility to be right, and another thing it is if you have no idea and simply post.

our intentions are to bring mtbs forward and have stereogaming as a standard. i dont see anything bad in it. but to do this we must have clear ideas. we try to give the liberty to post to everybody. we work hard (me and neil usually 16 hours a day, seriously 6 or 7 days / week) and personally it hurts me if somebody comes and says things he doesnt know. we accept comments of every kind, postive, negative, suggestions... from new, and old users. (for example the unofficial database was an idea of a 4-post user and after a week it was online. personally i was in front of the pc from 8.30 am to 2 am next day to finish it, and all this for FREE!)

so this said, i accept everything, but only if it contributes to bring this site forward and make it a better place to spend time on.

now keeping all this in mind, read my sentence about lazyness again, and neils post again, and you will see that the only thing we have in mind is to make this site grow and make our and YOUR "stereo-dream" come true. same as a LOT of other uers in here.

sorry if it sounds hard, neil please dont delete the post, I WROTE IT AS IGOR AND NOT AS ADMIN.

we need to work toghether not against...

bye

sharky

[chrisdfw]

Thanks for putting in that unofficial games database!

Now I just need to go through my games and fill in those fields...

Chris