Please help... getting so confused..

[Taldiira]

I've finally decided that I should probably be about getting on the 3d gaming side of things, now that there are mainstream products actually sticking around and it doesn't seem to be a phase or trend like there have been in the past. It really seems like 3d is here to stay this time, unlike the occasional romp in the past or movies which tried it and failed or whatever.

I've been trying to do research, read forums, reviews, etc... and while it has been helpful, it's also left me pretty confused because of all the whining and changes over the years which aren't reflected in reviews. So I come here, hoping that by going to a (at least partial since I know this site is partially sponsored by some companies I'll be talking about) 3rd party site I can get some more realistic ideas of what to expect rather than all the whining and people having the same problem "banding" together (not that that is a problem) and filling the forum with something.

First, am I right in saying that the two main players in this "game" are nvidia and iz3d? Of these it seems like both have their fans, but nvidia has the edge? However, they both seem to have about the same potential issues like ghosting and eye strain? All of which brings me to the meat of the this post...

Just how likely am I to get problems if I go with a 3d system from one of the above?

I've read that when not using 3d mode the IZ isn't that great as a monitor, and it's using 2 display ports is kind of a big deal as I have a second monitor hooked up I use fairly often. Although I know I can just run that off another video card... And then I think I read something about a possible polarization issue with the glasses causing lots of ghosting when you tilt your head or something. Plus the colors supposedly take on a more brown-ish tone or something. Supposedly those are better with their new glasses, and from the pics (from I think here) certainly show better colors, what about ghosting?

On the nvidia side of things, I really don't know where to begin. Everything from shutter glasses causing people to become sick, extreme ghosting on the top of the monitor with the bundled Samsung monitor, and (it seems) the transmitter and glasses losing sync causing a flashing/flickering sensation. It really seems like there are more severe problems being posted for the nvidia, but if it is more popular then that explains things some.

TBH, I think I want to try to lean towards the nvidia option, as having a true 120hz display around will be handy with the upcommong BD3d and that it seems to be really catching on. But reading these problems with the Samsung monitor, flickering, shutter glasses and their possible issues with both LCD monitors and the other stuff... I Just don't know.

So I come here, asking, if I get one of these systems now am I very likely to become one of the one in whatever who are having problems like that? Or is it more likely that everything will just work for me, not make me feel sick (with the right settings to start and ramping up), and I'll be a nice happy cmaper with my new 3d system?


To add onto the complication and (I guess you could say) frustration of the matter... it seems like soon there are going to be a lot more options out there in terms of monitors. nvidia in particular seems to be hyping a new 23 (or 24, or inbetween lol) acer, claiming that the top of the screen ghosting will be gone with it. But I've read some questionable things about acer, including that some of their monitors have a big back-light bleed-through, which for me is a big no-no. Plus, especially with the BD thing, some of them aren't good for anything but gaming and have more lack-luster colors. Obviously that's kind of counting your chickens before they hatched with an un-released monitor, but the best indication of future behavior is past. IZ3d is also, hopefully, releasing a new 27" 3d monitor in 2010, but I find that size a bit too larger personally (about 22-24" is perfect for me for my PC) and I don't know if there is any word about a 22" upgrade or not. Which if it really is a big upgrade over the 22" in terms of, well everything, then that could really be a deal killer.

[cybereality]

Yes, all the solutions have issues, none is perfect. You also forgot the Zalman Trimon, a polarized 22" monitor. Personally, I like the Zalman a lot but it has its own set of issues (just search on this forum).

[yuriythebest]

I'll try to answer as best I can

First, am I right in saying that the two main players in this "game" are nvidia and iz3d? Of these it seems like both have their fans, but nvidia has the edge? However, they both seem to have about the same potential issues like ghosting and eye strain? All of which brings me to the meat of the this post...

there are many 3d systems, like iz3d,nvidia 3d vision, zalman, DLP's, HMD's- read the MTBS3d hardware guide. Also don't forget the drivers - there are the iz3d, nvidia and DDD drivers and you have to pick a working combination of 3d display+driver.

Just how likely am I to get problems if I go with a 3d system from one of the above?

assuming you do research in advance, ask questions on the forums, then not likely

I've read that when not using 3d mode the IZ isn't that great as a monitor, and it's using 2 display ports is kind of a big deal as I have a second monitor hooked up I use fairly often. Although I know I can just run that off another video card... And then I think I read something about a possible polarization issue with the glasses causing lots of ghosting when you tilt your head or something. Plus the colors supposedly take on a more brown-ish tone or something. Supposedly those are better with their new glasses, and from the pics (from I think here) certainly show better colors, what about ghosting?

I have an iz3d and it's a perfectly nice 2d display. I watch 2d movies/tv shows and do 2d work on it and use it as my main monitor. Yeah there's some ghosting but the new glasses help fix it, but mainly you have to master the 3d settings.

On the nvidia side of things, I really don't know where to begin. Everything from shutter glasses causing people to become sick, extreme ghosting on the top of the monitor with the bundled Samsung monitor, and (it seems) the transmitter and glasses losing sync causing a flashing/flickering sensation. It really seems like there are more severe problems being posted for the nvidia, but if it is more popular then that explains things some.

they aren't that bad, except for a very few people who for some reason have headaches but that's usually due to pre-existing eye conditions. Unlike old CRT+shutters these aren't as bad. However, the main problem with the nvidia glasses is the cost- you pay a lot for just one pair of glasses. with the iz3d/zalman/etc it's <10$ per glasses since all the tech is in the display- no need for batteries inside the glasses.

T

BH, I think I want to try to lean towards the nvidia option, as having a true 120hz display around will be handy with the upcommong BD3d and that it seems to be really catching on. But reading these problems with the Samsung monitor, flickering, shutter glasses and their possible issues with both LCD monitors and the other stuff... I Just don't know.

well, the human eye can't see much more than 24hz. The reason for the 120hz is to avoid flickering in 3d (and the "2d" 120hz/240hz displays are usually marketing gimmiks).

So I come here, asking, if I get one of these systems now am I very likely to become one of the one in whatever who are having problems like that? Or is it more likely that everything will just work for me, not make me feel sick (with the right settings to start and ramping up), and I'll be a nice happy cmaper with my new 3d system?

well, first I'd recommend checking if you can see in 3d- I've you are able to watch 3d films for instance in IMAX/Reald, or have used anaglyph glasses you'll be ok

[Taldiira]

Yes, all the solutions have issues, none is perfect. You also forgot the Zalman Trimon, a polarized 22" monitor. Personally, I like the Zalman a lot but it has its own set of issues (just search on this forum).

there are many 3d systems, like iz3d,nvidia 3d vision, zalman, DLP's, HMD's- read the MTBS3d hardware guide. Also don't forget the drivers - there are the iz3d, nvidia and DDD drivers and you have to pick a working combination of 3d display+driver.

Actually I didn't forget it, I just ruled it out (more for me personally) because I believe it uses the interlace tech and you need to buy IZ3d's driver to output the interlace thing. I'm more looking for a "ready made, plug and play" (yes I know thats not exactly true) 3d solution that doesn't take up a ton of space (projectors/big 3d ready TVs) or are small displays (HMDs, no matter how close they go to your head).

assuming you do research in advance, ask questions on the forums, then not likely

While that (and other things) is encouraging, I'm more talking about the problems that may just be inherent in something if you believe how many people have been posting about issues. Like the flashing/flickering on nvidia, and the samsung major ghosting issue. I know forums are filled with whiners, but when you see quite a few threads recently by varying people... well it's been my experience to stop and try to take a closer look. Maybe some of those issues are with IR interference and not "mastering the 3d settings" though.

I have an iz3d and it's a perfectly nice 2d display. I watch 2d movies/tv shows and do 2d work on it and use it as my main monitor. Yeah there's some ghosting but the new glasses help fix it, but mainly you have to master the 3d settings.

How would you compare it (in 2d) to some of the other nice 2d displays? Like a Samsung? Good brightness, contrast, colors, (no to little) back-light bleeding?
It really sounds like ghosting is just something that is going to be there? So I'm guessing there are settings that are causing it or settings to be used to minimize? One thing I'm really worried about with it (and specifically on the IZ) is the 3d field of view... I remember reading with (some) polarized glasses tilting your head to the side even slightly would just put MASSIVE ghosting into the picture. I don't really want to have to hae my head fixed in the exact center of some "box" to see 3d well, even with getting good settings...

they aren't that bad, except for a very few people who for some reason have headaches but that's usually due to pre-existing eye conditions. Unlike old CRT+shutters these aren't as bad. However, the main problem with the nvidia glasses is the cost- you pay a lot for just one pair of glasses. with the iz3d/zalman/etc it's <10$ per glasses since all the tech is in the display- no need for batteries inside the glasses.

well, first I'd recommend checking if you can see in 3d- I've you are able to watch 3d films for instance in IMAX/Reald, or have used anaglyph glasses you'll be ok

I know for certain I can view 3d. I used to really enjoy going to imax films in 3d, and when the nvidia thing first came out was tempted to buy it just from that experience. For some reason that interest faded into the background, then died when I started reading (which I now believe were bad/biased) reviews of the system that were less than stellar... Then I went to see Avatar in RealD, and well here I am lol.

Ya, the cost (especially for extra glasses) is certainly a bit of a problem. But at the same time, I don't really need extra glasses right now. I mean the point is basically to let others see the 3d while you are right? ut I don't have many friends, or other people, in the house when I'm gaming anyways so it seems kind of silly for me personally right now. Now, movie-wise I could see it being a problem... but I wouldn't want to watch (with multiple people that is) a 3d movie on my small little PC monitor. So I'll have to buy a new (non-gimmicked lol) TV for that (probably with the PS3 BD3d system, whatever that may be) when it'll be easier to say "oh hey, I need 4 pairs of glasses to go with this 2k TV... Ok, no biggy" lol.


I don't know... I still can't really decide what to do. All this stuff I've been reading now (whether forum inflated or not) is kind of off-putting to trying the nvidia system right now. And then the IZ system has it's own problems, including a possible monitor revision to remove some of the things I find (possibly) iffy about it.

I know it wouldn't be exactly the same, but do you think if I went to a computer store and they had a 3d demo station setup it would be a fairly accurate representation of what I would see at home? Like if I was to find an nvidia, and then purposefully look for ghosting and see whether or not I get a headache or eyestrain wearing it for a few while looking and/or playing the demo game? Or is that not such a good idea due people (or the store) possibly have messing up the 3d settings so it wouldn't be good for a "beginner"?

[yuriythebest]

Actually I didn't forget it, I just ruled it out (more for me personally) because I believe it uses the interlace tech and you need to buy IZ3d's driver to output the interlace thing. I'm more looking for a "ready made, plug and play" (yes I know thats not exactly true) 3d solution that doesn't take up a ton of space (projectors/big 3d ready TVs) or are small displays (HMDs, no matter how close they go to your head).

well, even with the added cost of the driver it's still in the same price range as an iz3d

How would you compare it (in 2d) to some of the other nice 2d displays? Like a Samsung? Good brightness, contrast, colors, (no to little) back-light bleeding?
It really sounds like ghosting is just something that is going to be there? So I'm guessing there are settings that are causing it or settings to be used to minimize? One thing I'm really worried about with it (and specifically on the IZ) is the 3d field of view... I remember reading with (some) polarized glasses tilting your head to the side even slightly would just put MASSIVE ghosting into the picture. I don't really want to have to hae my head fixed in the exact center of some "box" to see 3d well, even with getting good settings...

I have to confess I'm not a "screen-guru", I've only had another LCD - a 19' LG 1940P which was very nice. Color wise the iz3d is very nice, there are some issues, for instance if the iz3d is on a low table and you are standing very high above it you'll notice the image becomes somewhat washed out/whiter, but you won't really be using it from that angle. but for any angles that a human would regularly use it from it's perfectly fine - from the sides the colors don't get washed out, and to get em to wash out from below I had to put my head right under the screen- then everything becomes high contrast. Backlight bleeding? the only time I notice it is when windows is loading and the screen is 100% black, then yeah you can see it a bit. Again- what I've mentioned here are "extremes", I hope I did not scare you- you don't notice any of this during normal use unless you, say, put your head right under the screen. Yeah there's some ghosting and always will be but it can be minimized using proper settings and the new glasses, usually for games it's "acceptable".

I know for certain I can view 3d.

good.

I don't know... I still can't really decide what to do. All this stuff I've been reading now (whether forum inflated or not) is kind of off-putting to trying the nvidia system right now. And then the IZ system has it's own problems, including a possible monitor revision to remove some of the things I find (possibly) iffy about it.

don't worry - do your research, don't rush into any purchase unless you are confident

I know it wouldn't be exactly the same, but do you think if I went to a computer store and they had a 3d demo station setup it would be a fairly accurate representation of what I would see at home?

iz3d does have some of those- at fry's electronic stores and some other stores

[Taldiira]

Thanks for the responses. Obviously I wont be using the screen in those kind of extremes though lol. As for backlight bleeding, I don't think it's totally possible to prevent tbh... Even my 60hz Samsung (which is widely considered to be one of the better monitor/tv brands I believe) has some. However it's just a small band of gray quickly fading to black under it when I have black bars around there for whatever reason. In the past I had a monitor with literally a white bar a few pixels high at the top of the screen. Little bit of gray, I'm not going to notice too much... Sure it "should" be black but it's still a shade of black. Now a big ole white bar, even a few pixels high? Sorry, that is not good at all. Granted maybe it wont be as noticable in gaming, but still thats not a good thing imo.

so you'd think it'd be a good idea to take a trip down to my local Fry's and see if they have some 3d stuff setup? Even with the possible settings and that they wont be ideal for me? And maybe cause me to get some eye strain? Or if I get eye strain just from looking at it for a few minutes I'll want to stay away from that?

[yuriythebest]

so you'd think it'd be a good idea to take a trip down to my local Fry's and see if they have some 3d stuff setup? Even with the possible settings and that they wont be ideal for me? And maybe cause me to get some eye strain? Or if I get eye strain just from looking at it for a few minutes I'll want to stay away from that?

it's definitely a good idea, but also depends on the store. some don't have em set up correctly, some do. About eyestrain- the iz3d doesn't cause any, but when you first begin it might feel unusual or stressful or something, but that's cause the eyes aren't accustomed to this type of activity. the more you use it the more used to it you become.

[Taldiira]

so you'd think it'd be a good idea to take a trip down to my local Fry's and see if they have some 3d stuff setup? Even with the possible settings and that they wont be ideal for me? And maybe cause me to get some eye strain? Or if I get eye strain just from looking at it for a few minutes I'll want to stay away from that?

it's definitely a good idea, but also depends on the store. some don't have em set up correctly, some do. About eyestrain- the iz3d doesn't cause any, but when you first begin it might feel unusual or stressful or something, but that's cause the eyes aren't accustomed to this type of activity. the more you use it the more used to it you become.

What about if they have the nvidia one? Same deal? Either way it certainly seems to be a whole lot of "take this with a grain of salt" for going to the store if they have one it sounds like.

[cybereality]

Zalman can be used for free with the Nvidia 3D driver (assuming you have an Nvidia card).

[gicko]

discover the world of AVATAR with ZALMAN!!!!
Discover the beauty of THE BEST 3d stereoscopic game....STOP the action sometimes to admire the fantastic world of J. CAMERON
THAT IS MY OPINION.