Fallout 4 - FPS drop by 1/2 with 3DMigoto

[CrommCruac]

Hi all

My problem is quite complicated. Don't get me wrong, I know that using 3d mode the FPS drop by half compared to 2D mode - I'm not a noob.

However I've noticed that with 3DMigoto fix the FPS drop to about a half comparing to unfixed game (still in 3D). BTW, I'm using a custom bo3b fix provided in this post to make it work with ENB - that's the only way I've managed to run ENB alongside the fix.

It wouldn't be a problem as I have 2080Ti + far enough RAM & CPU that it's capable to run F4 on super-duper high settings. However I suffer from well known & random FPS drops in populated areas in F4 caused by CPU bottleneck. At some points in game the FPS drop to as low as 12 FPS - despite having GPU on 30% load and CPU at ~50% - making it unplayable. So if I could double that by eliminating 3DMigoto taxing it would be acceptable.

Now, my question is about 3DMigoto, but if you have any solution (other than I listed below) to the above CPU bottleneck problem that would be awesome. I've tried literally everything I could google:
- Lowering the quality to low - no difference
- Disabling shadows & godrays - no difference (well maybe 2FPS)
- Disabling vsync - no difference
- Setting CPU priority to real-time - no difference
- Setting iNumHWThreads - no difference
- Setting multithreading in console/ini - no difference
- Setting power options in Windows - no difference

No matter what I do one of the cores of the CPU is on 100% - while other cores are on ~30% - capping the game performance to unplayable FPS. I may add this only happens when looking towards populated/built-up areas. For instance near Red Rocket settlement when looking towards it. As soon as I look away toward the wasteland it jumps to ~60 FPS.

[3DNovice]

What resolution are you playing at?

Do you have a lot of mods installed?

Are you using Bethesda's High Res texture pack?

Have you tried the PCGamingWiki solutions such as SpecialK or Dynamic Performance Tuner.

I doubt that it's 3DMigoto, bo3b tests it extensively for overhead. Did you follow the directions on Helixblog, perhaps it has an affect on performance?

4. Open up the Fallout4Prefs.ini file found in "C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Fallout4"
5. Set the following
- bComputeShaderDeferredTiledLighting=0
- bForceIgnoreSmoothness=0
- iPresentInterval=0

I'm planning on playing this soon, so I hope you find a solution.

[Shift-E]

I played this last year and had the same issue, in my case it was the precombine issue that Bethesda broke in one of their updates. To fix this I used the well known mod Boston FPS fix:

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/26286

I used the Regrowth version of this mod, which adds a ton of foliage to FO4 to give it a completely different look. But it contains the same fixes the base version of the mod does, made an incredible difference in FPS. I was on a 2080ti, and I think I ended up playing at 4K if I remember because the GPU was not stressed by this game. oh and don't turn on the nvidia debris physics setting or whatever it's called, it crashes with RTX cards. Took me a while to figure that out.

The only thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to use other mods that break the precombines also (the mod explains it all). I played with a TON of mods and had no issues at all, hope this helps!

oh one more tip, the Lower Weapons mod is great in that it allows you to really crank the convergence up without the weapon limiting your view. I then put a hotkey for holstering my weapon for even higher convergence settings, its a great 3D fix. I can only pray that Starfield includes DX11...

[CrommCruac]

Playing @ 1920x1080. Done all instructions from Helix blog.
I have mods installed and I know they slow down the game. However even unmodded game lags in built-up areas. I'm not saying that this lag is caused by 3D fix - I know it's not - it's CPU related

So the figures are - looking at Red Rocket without the settlement
Unmodded without the fix - 58 FPS
Unmodded with the fix - 38 FPS
Modded without 3D fix - 39 FPS
Modded with the fix - 22 FPS

Looking away from Red Rocket
Modded without the fix - 130 FPS;
Modded with the fix: - 85 FPS

All results in 3D (fixed or unfixed)
Looks like the fix itself causes massive FPS drop so I was hoping to at least avoid that. I was thinking maybe because it forces VSync - at least it says that in 3D Fix Manager: 'Automatic Driver Profile Configuration: Vertical Sync On'. Maybe if there was a way to disable that the game would run a little smoother.

EDIT: I'm aware of pre-combine Boston fix mod - I've used it before on my old rig and it worked wonders.Unfortunately now I play the mod that doesn't use pre-combines. I also use lowered weapons mod - good indeed.
Anyway, mod or no mod 3DMigoto is causing the FPS drop If only I could get rid of that problem I could live with 30ish FPS.

[RAGEdemon]

I believe the fix is patching shaders on the fly which can be demanding if you have a weak CPU. What is your CPU, and ram speed?

For anyone reading please always put your system specs in your signature or in OP in any IT support thread on the internet, otherwise we are all blind. Thanks

[CrommCruac]

Sorry, my bad. Added the specs in the sig.
Never had this problem with FPS drop from 3DMigoto in other games even using old 980 Ti. At least not that significant so I'd notice. FPS was always more or less half of the FPS of 2D mode. But in F4 is more like 25%.

[masterotaku]

3Dmigoto got CPU optimizations over the years. I see that the fix is from 2015, so probably a 3Dmigoto update can improve the fps.
The fix looks simple regarding "d3dx.ini", so it shouldn't be hard to do.

After you update 3Dmigoto, pressing ctrl+F9 (multiple times for different information) will show if there are places where performance can be improved. Usually good for resource copying, overrides, etc. In this case, you probably won't need to check it.

PS: I don't have the game, so I didn't experience bad/good performance myself.

[RAGEdemon]

Your system is excellent. masterotaku is a master around these parts - I wonder if simply replacing the old .dll with a modern version would be sufficient?

If I might humbly suggest - for me, FO4 standard version was mediocre - and I have loved previous Bethesda open world games from Morrowind onwards.

Fallout4 VR with motion controls and mods, on the other hand, is on a completely different level however - a spectacularly memorable experience for me personally.

Fo4VR can be had for <$10 if you google - if you have a VR headset. Certainly your system will handle it well. I love 3DV, but when you get a game with motion controls and head tracking as well as an immersive 3D world, it adds so much more.

My humble 2 cents.

[CrommCruac]

Yeah, you could expect that my rig would cope with the game from 2015

Re: VR, my friend let me try the headset and I wasn't impressed with the display quality. This mesh effect was very distracting to me. I'll wait until they manage to go 4k on each eye

I've tried to update 3Dmigoto to the latest version - no dice. First doesn't work with ENB, Second, it won't start from Mod Organizer. - that's why I'm using this customised version.
Anyway, launched unmodded game directly from F4 folder and the FPS gain from new version is 4 FPS so not significant.

There is something really fuuued up with this game. Yesterday I've saved the game on some random hill looking towards some factory and buildings. Today loaded that game and to my surprise I've got solid 45 FPS in 3D - full load on GPU. My happiness was premature. I looked away from that factory and then looked back and it immediately dropped to 16 FPS - only 30% GPU load. Literally just looking away and back. Reloaded the game - still 16 FPS. Restarted the game, loaded - back to 45 / 100% load. Looked away and back - 16 FPS / 30%. I've repeated this like 10 times - always the same result. I mean, seriously, WTF?

[RAGEdemon]

I remember FO4 had huge performance issues at launch. There were a bunch of FO4 community fixes which attempted to address some of these issues e.g. shadow detail in Boston(?) caused huge lag. You could try installing them from fo4 nexus.

Are you aware that generally 3D Vision causes a huge CPU bottleneck in all games? Check out my post here with graphs:
viewtopic.php?p=177713#p177713

Re: VR - it has come a long way since your experience. There are 2k x 2k x2 headsets available such as the Reverb G2, or dual 4k screens with a PiMax 8kx. Both virtually eliminate the screen door effect that you speak of. Now might be a good time to get one, as the experience is much better because FO4 is designed for VR whereas 3DV fo4 is a hack.

BTW: Implementing 4k screens is relatively trivial, however how does one drive them at 90fps?
What resolution are you playing at? 1920x1080p @60fps most likely? 4k per eye will be:

4000x4000x2x90 / 1920x1080x60

=2,880,000,000 / 124,416,000 = 23x the performance requirements. This doesn't even take into account default VR supersampling. I struggle to drive my 2k G2 VR at full resolution having similar specs to yours. Unfortunately there is no Shangri-La with 3DV not VR - both have their strengths and weaknesses which require that our expectations be tempered. Your particular performance issues do seem exceedingly strange however one final thought - you might want to try setting your GPU power to maximum performance

[CrommCruac]

I'm totally aware that rendering something @ 8000x4000 would be massive performance issue. I'm not against rendering at lower resolutions and stretching it to display as long I don't have this 'screen door' effect. I wasn't aware that there are already the models with 4k screens. Something to look at as a Xmas present

I've tested a little bit this 'looking away' issue. Looks like if I lower the shadow quality/distance it doesn't happen immediately. I can run around for a while and then suddenly it drops down to 25% of what it was. And stays there even after reloading the game. Only game restart helps. If I turn the shadows off completely it doesn't happen at all. I still get significantly lower performance in settlements but that may be because there is a lot to render there. I'm using Sim Settlements mod and it adds a tons of objects.
I've read somewhere that there is some issue with memory leak caused by some broken light shadow rendering and if looked at such light source the FPS drops. Only game restart is the solution. That looks exactly like the problem I have.
Maybe it's a driver issue? I'm running 425.06 drivers recommended by 3D Fix Manager.

My GPU is set to max performance - always was. It's just something related to CPU that simply keeps GPU usage low - I mean there is no need for 100% if CPU lets only ~20 FPS to be rendered. As a test I've increased the vision, grass, objects distance and GPU jumped to about 100% - more stuff to render but only at ~20 FPS so it makes sense. Maybe I'll go that way: I have to live with low FPS so at least I'd have eye-candy visuals

[Shift-E]

yeah that sounds like the shadows issue that has been there since launch, there were a few mods to fix this but many are defunct (shadow boost etc). The ones that still work (dynamic performance tuner etc) I could not get working with 3DMigoto, trying to proxy them. I created a thread about it, but never got them working together. Thats when I ended up using Boston FPS Fix which gave me more than enough FPS to turn shadows back up to high or whatever max is.

do you have Boston FPS Fix installed currently? you can use it even if you have other mods that break precombines, you just put it after or maybe its before them (sorry I forget). experiment and see if you can get the FPS up, I played just last year on the same version of the game with some very performance heavy mods and had no issues - and you say this is happening even if you have no mods installed, so if its not your mods its the shadows + precombine issues most likely. Thats why you get it when looking in certain directions.

[russellk]

I'm totally aware that rendering something @ 8000x4000 would be massive performance issue. I'm not against rendering at lower resolutions and stretching it to display as long I don't have this 'screen door' effect. I wasn't aware that there are already the models with 4k screens. Something to look at as a Xmas present

I've tested a little bit this 'looking away' issue. Looks like if I lower the shadow quality/distance it doesn't happen immediately. I can run around for a while and then suddenly it drops down to 25% of what it was. And stays there even after reloading the game. Only game restart helps. If I turn the shadows off completely it doesn't happen at all. I still get significantly lower performance in settlements but that may be because there is a lot to render there. I'm using Sim Settlements mod and it adds a tons of objects.
I've read somewhere that there is some issue with memory leak caused by some broken light shadow rendering and if looked at such light source the FPS drops. Only game restart is the solution. That looks exactly like the problem I have.
Maybe it's a driver issue? I'm running 425.06 drivers recommended by 3D Fix Manager.

My GPU is set to max performance - always was. It's just something related to CPU that simply keeps GPU usage low - I mean there is no need for 100% if CPU lets only ~20 FPS to be rendered. As a test I've increased the vision, grass, objects distance and GPU jumped to about 100% - more stuff to render but only at ~20 FPS so it makes sense. Maybe I'll go that way: I have to live with low FPS so at least I'd have eye-candy visuals

Out of interest, which VR headset did you try? I only have two at the moment, the Rift and Odyssey+, but I find the O+ to be excellent.

[Blacksmith60]

Yes FO4 can be a real pain, to run just relative smooth, I've been modding Bethesda's games for many years, I'm a real sucker for great textures Beth's HD pack is absolutely worthless, simply avoid it !
Instead use some of the great textures from Langley, Flaconoil and many others, one of my best finds on Nexus is a mod that can merge these textures into the games core ba2 files, and replace the original textures, this is a real gamechanger also there's lots of other tips, some known others not so much

Take a look at it here: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23556

[3DNovice]

Hmm, I just randomly stumbled across this, perhaps it may help

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/new-fall ... ramerates/

[CrommCruac]

Yeah, stumbled on this as well and tried - no dice.

I have identified that the problem above is related to increased draw call numbers and a CPU bottleneck they cause. Whenever there is increased draw calls when looking at the urban or built-up areas something starts to gnaw on one core of my CPU - and one core only. The other cores are pretty Idle with 10-20%. This is causing FPS to drop drastically with GPU being occupied at about 30% - lots of spare GPU power to use. Well, I guess that's obvious as if there is a CPU bottleneck there is not much do do for the GPU at 5 FPS. If there only was some way to even that load to other cores...

Out of interest, which VR headset did you try? I only have two at the moment, the Rift and Odyssey+, but I find the O+ to be excellent.

Can't remember exactly as it was over a year ago but it was one of the latest (then) Oculus ones.

[3DNovice]

No idea if it would help with that new of a CPU, but with my old GPU, I'd use a core unparker.
Also I offloaded some stuff from my CPU 1 core by changing the affinity

I see that there's a newer version of it, as well as a power plan control manager for the CPU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrpVTtNXSbU

You can also look into changing CPU affinity for certain tasks/processes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeBp3a5WIzE


Note: of course use at your own risk!! I've had no problem using the prior version on my old Intel CPU
Be sure to check out additional videos on YouTube about doing the above suggestions

BTW, Helifax made a guide to help with stuttering on W10, if you have that issue as well. It's over on the old forums, sorry but I do not have the link

[3DNovice]

Interesting thing in that CPU affinity video, the guy talks about setting the CPU affinity for the Nvidia Drivers to a different core.

Perhaps RageDemon might want to try this, to see if it helps in some of the CPU intensive games he's been testing?

[RAGEdemon]

Sorry, I have uninstalled the above tested games as I needed space on the ssd.

Core parking is no longer a default thing in Windows 10 and modern processors such as the 9XXX series, or even 7XXX series.

Driver affinity would be an interesting test, certainly, though I have my doubts - I usually have 14 cores out of 16 free when a game is running - it would be strange if windows scheduler decided to queue the nVidia driver on the cores being utilised by the game rather than the idle cores. Who knows though; stranger things have happened...

On a related note, Part 2 of OP:
An updated video of the phenomenon shows that the bug is quite bad in 2D...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G03fzsYUNDU

[CrommCruac]

I have downgraded 452.06 drivers - latest 3D vision compliant, recommended by 3D Fix manager to 411.63 - one of the first supporting RTX 2080 Ti.
Finally some improvement
The CPU is still occupied at only 30% having one core maxed out... BUT the GPU is now at about 70% and the framerates almost doubled to 30ish in build-up areas making the game at bit playable.
Also, no sudden drops of FPS observed before

[3DNovice]

Interesting find, thanks for preservering and finding a helpful solution for those that have yet to play this.

[CrommCruac]

Just a small update, maybe someone will find it useful. After Windows major update to version 20H2 the 411.63 nVidia 3D Vision driver no longer fires up. As 452.06 on Win10 20H2 had the same performance issues, I've installed 442.59 and it's back to normal. I mean 3D Visions works again and there are no major performance issues as on recommended 452.06. The only issue is that there are some 2D glitches on loading screens but not in game.

[Boblenon]

hello does anyone know fallout 4 fix works on fallout 76 ?

fallout 76 sales