Who backed The STEM System ??

[hast]

It's worth noting that that specific patent application was sent in on April 1st. And the drawings on the applications are physically impossible. The phone literally passes through your nose and other parts of your face.

The patent is serious. There is no requirement for the diagrams (which are for illustrative purposes) need to be exact. Patents are for a range of embodiments which are described in the claims, and to have a picture showing every possible embodiment would be impossible.

Also, no company in its right mind would ever dick around with the patent office in a million years. Patents are the life blood for these companies.

Having worked at big companies who deal with patents I really don't agree with you. But patents are fairly expensive so that's a good reason to not waste resources on it.

I haven't looked at this patent in depth but I bet it's just another "place holder" patent where they intend to stake a claim so that if other people move into this area and then Apple wants to do so as well they have some old patents (with no innovative claims) so wave around.

If they were serious about it they would at least design something that's physically possible.

[mickman]

Some interesting answers from Amir Rubin ( co-founder of Sixense ) on Reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... ama_about/

Note: when I spoke to Amir at the recent Maker Fair in New York he mentioned one of the improvements of the Stem controller over the Razer controller is its ability of a centrally located rotational axis... The Razer's pivot axis point is actually offset so when you turn it in your hand what you view on screen is not an accurate central axial rotation but an offset rotation... The new Stem system controller provides a perfect central pivot point of rotation. So for example when you rotate that sword in your hand, its really central to your hands rotation. I believe this will become even more evident once we finally get our hands on Make V.R & begin sculpting, cutting etc.. with the different tools available.
Hope that makes sense...

There's also talk of Sixense's interest in Haptic feedback controllers.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsDLMkrVaC0#t=116[/youtube-hd]

[blazespinnaker]

Having worked at big companies who deal with patents I really don't agree with you. But patents are fairly expensive so that's a good reason to not waste resources on it.

So have I. I have also submitted patents in said companies.

And you don't agree with what, exactly? You think a public company would play an april fools prank on the Patent Office by submitting a fake patent app?

I haven't looked at this patent in depth but I bet it's just another "place holder" patent where they intend to stake a claim so that if other people move into this area and then Apple wants to do so as well they have some old patents (with no innovative claims) so wave around.

All patents have that element to them .. and the vast majority of patents are used for that purpose. Rarely does a public company sue another for patent infringement unless they're going nuclear like Apple against Android. That doesn't make any particular patent app 'non serious'. If the industry shifts this way hard, this patent could become very serious indeed.

If they were serious about it they would at least design something that's physically possible.

The patent is definitely physically possible. Read the claims where the actual patent is , don't just look at the pretty pictures.

[mickman]

Anywho.... back to the Sixense System...

I read on Reddit

We do not have plans to include the Tactial Haptics Technology with the STEM System. However, Tactical Haptics has announced their intent to include the STEM in their Reactive Grip.

So I presume that one would require the Sixense base station and then simply clip a Stem Cell (sensor) into the Tactial Haptics controller.. yes ?

Amir then goes onto say later

We are still evaluating the haptics solution that we will include in the STEM Controller and Pack. We’ll update the Kickstarter community with specifics once we have made a decision.

[hast]

Having worked at big companies who deal with patents I really don't agree with you. But patents are fairly expensive so that's a good reason to not waste resources on it.

So have I. I have also submitted patents in said companies.

And you don't agree with what, exactly? You think a public company would play an april fools prank on the Patent Office by submitting a fake patent app?

Looking into it more it seems it was granted on April 1st. So perhaps it's more that the patent office is playing a prank on Apple.

And no, I really don't think that companies would prank the US Patent Office. But more because it costs money than anything else. The US Patent Office is known for granting pretty much any ludicrous thing is pranking them is not really worthwhile. They are just laughing all the way to the bank with your patent application money.

I haven't looked at this patent in depth but I bet it's just another "place holder" patent where they intend to stake a claim so that if other people move into this area and then Apple wants to do so as well they have some old patents (with no innovative claims) so wave around.

All patents have that element to them .. and the vast majority of patents are used for that purpose. ... If the industry shifts this way hard, this patent could become very serious indeed.

If they were serious about it they would at least design something that's physically possible.

The patent is definitely physically possible. Read the claims where the actual patent is , don't just look at the pretty pictures.

I spent the time to actually read the claims now. And I stand by my initial claims that this patent is worthless, a waste of time, should never have been granted and will hopefully be thrown out the second anyone tries to use it.

Basically it's the same as Fov2Go and the new VRAze and all those projects. Only they don't seem to make any mentions of lenses between the eye and the screen. Anyone who has put a screen in front of their eyes that close knows that you need that unless you want your eyes to start hurting after 30 seconds.

The only thing the patent seems to claim is to have the phone react to when you put it in the "glasses" mode so it automatically can switch to a 3D stereo mode. I wouldn't exactly say that the innovation factor in that is amazing.

BTW, here is a link to the patent in question: http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... 0100079356.

[Cromfel]

I could not resist backing it up.

[blazespinnaker]

Hast, that patent was filed in Sept 2008.

Fov2Go was first mentioned (at least on mtbs3d) in March of 2012.

As for lenses, that's covered under optical subassembly.

BTW, you never throw out a patent as a whole, but rather the indie claims within the patent which standalone. A patent is actually more of a folder of claims which more or less follow along the same theme (or species) and have common prior art.

That being said, it's possible there was prior art before this patent. Often there is prior art outside of the patent system which is missed (examiners rarely do much of an extensive search outside their database, even then they often do a poor job within the database).

But that prior art certainly wasn't fov2go...

Perhaps Hasbro has a patent filing. I found a mention of the my3d around Nov 2010.

All I could find was this: https://www.google.com/patents/US20120026298 But that patent (filed 2011) isn't going anywhere fast..

[hast]

Hast, that patent was filed in Sept 2008.

Fov2Go was first mentioned (at least on mtbs3d) in March of 2012.

As for lenses, that's covered under optical subassembly.

I never claimed Fov2Go was prior art. My point is that Fov2Go had a significantly higher grade of invention.

They do mention optical subassembly under description, but that's not really relevant for the patent. Only the parts under claims are actually covered by the patent AFAIK.

This discussion has gone way off topic though.

[blazespinnaker]

It's not really off topic. STEM is specifically building a product for these types of devices.

The question is - should they bother? Will a patent like this stop people from building mobile VR solutions that stem or oculus could work with?

Unless Apple wants to directly compete with VRASE by building their own solution and selling it, I really doubt they'll sue anyone. That'd be very patent trollish and they're trying to get laws to stop patent trolls.

I honestly don't really see apple competing in this space. It's pretty nerdy for their brand.

So, as a gamble, Sixense, Oculus, VRASE, Durovis, etc are probably safe to compete.

Interestingly though, it's still a powerful patent, especially if this indie claim holds up (which it did for the examiner, obviously)

A head-mounted device that is worn on a user's head, comprising:
a frame that is configured to physically receive and carry a portable electronic device, wherein the frame places a display screen of the portable electronic device in front of the user's eyes, and wherein the display screen of the portable electronic device acts as the primary display screen of the head-mounted device such that the display screen of the portable electronic device is primarily used to view image based content when the head-mounted display device is worn on the user's head.

How the hell do you get around THAT claim? It's so very broad and therefore very powerful. I don't think you can just build the same and put lenses between your eyes and the frame and call it a workaround. The portable device will still be in front of your eyes.

[mickman]

Yup the talk regarding Patents... has gone way off topic... Please if you want to talk all stuff patent related start a new thread.

This topic is directed purely towards the Sixense Stem system & Oculus Users who have or maybe thinking of backing the Sixense KickStarter Campaign...

Nothing to do with Apple Patents... even though Apple may have a few dozen V.R hmd patents over the past decade.

So while off topic... let's talk about the "Virtual Camera " that Sixense have introduced.

The Sixense system has introduced a mobile phone savvy way of introducing a "virtual camera " this is an interesting concept that I would like to understand in greater detail. The Sixense Virtual Camera may be used in a similar scenario setup to that of the virtual camera employed in mo-cap shots in the film Avatar.

note: towards the end of the third video below a guy talking mentions how he stumbled into the idea while recording on a simply handy cam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy7IvrizRok

[youtube-hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc4gaR9 ... bedded#t=0[/youtube-hd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyHa_0yJBlw


So being from a VFX film background, I'm wondering if the Sixense virtual camera could be utilised in a similar manner ??

[mickman]

latest video showcasing Sixense & Make V.R

I sure hope its possible to actually walk around an object within the Make V.R modelling space... not simply use the hand wands to move around an object. I'd like to have several base stations and feel like I am walking around in the space.

note: they say in the following video clip " you are moving the world around you " but I feel walking around objects would be more immersive. ..
It seems to me, Make V.R is geared towards the Razer Hydra ( 2 controllers ) + the next gen. Oculus will have pos. tracking.. so how could a user utilise all 5 Stems in Make V.R ??

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfnihC1 ... bedded#t=1[/youtube-hd]

[blazespinnaker]

This whole thread is offtopic for this forum.

You're going a little bump crazy, there Mickman.

[JoeReMi]

If sixense ks is off topic for this forum, then so is anything without oculus in the title.

[virror]

Exactly, there are a lot of oftopic topics in the forum : p
Looks like they will reach their first stretch very soon, but it has really slowed down to a crawl now, not a chance for the second stretch.

[mickman]

So who wants to talk Oculus Rift & Sixense Stem System.... anyone ?

continuing from my last post: I wonder how the virtual camera could be integrated into the development of a V.R game or sim for Oculus Rift ?

@ Virror : I think you're right regarding the slim chance of Sixense reaching $700,00

Maybe they'll still integrate the camera later down the track

[mickman]

new vid of Stem system utilising Raspberry Pie... creates a wireless unit.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SewweBUT ... e=youtu.be[/youtube-hd]

[xhonzi]

Exactly, there are a lot of oftopic topics in the forum : p
Looks like they will reach their first stretch very soon, but it has really slowed down to a crawl now, not a chance for the second stretch.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/895778 ... hart-daily

It's not that much different than other kickstarter campaigns. It's almost always highest in the first 2 days and last 2 days, with [campaign length - 4] days of doldrums in the middle.

[virror]

Yay, stretch goal reached : )
Personally i will probably use it wired anyway, but still a nice extra feature.

[drifter]

At last, Sixense called a nice Doctor to explain to us why the STEM system is better, and why the Hydra sucks

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/895 ... sts/617561

[cybereality]

Nice, wireless.

[usb247]

It's a bit too pricey for experimental technology. Like the Hydra, I dont think this will be the final solution for motion tracking in VR. I may need a 1 tracker STEM though because I want to do some tests with the tactical haptics stuff.

[drifter]

No "final solution" (how unfortunate expression) but surely the best one for a while, or at least the most supported by devs.