ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTED?

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ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTED?

Post by Dilip »

I have seen lot of buzz around many sites and even my self was also dreaming idea of a "MOBILE VIRTUAL REALITY DEVICE" that offer 100% mobility and freedom. Including my self many people are really craving for such device.

http://allthingsd.com/20130830/heres-ho ... on-mobile/
But as CEO Brendan Iribe told Edge Magazine last month, the company is internally working on mobile support for the Rift. In other words, instead of requiring gamers to be tethered to a PC, Oculus wants to be able to power the virtual reality experience from a mobile device’s hardware.

Luckey said that currently, the Rift only works with Android devices that have video output and can “host” the Rift via USB connectivity.
but there are some hurdles in the way, before it happens..

1) All smart phones are touch devices and to achieve immersion blocking all source of outer light means a closed enclosure is must.so touch screen controlls no way to go.Not all android phones have potent GPU to run rift then most also lack HDMI out. Even Nexus7 and Nexus7 2013 too lake HDMI out. so they are pretty unreliable things to begin with. most smart phones with good SoC are very costly which breaks primary requirement of rift set as WITHIN REACH OF MASS.

2) There can be bluetooth joystick carried by player.Which is how much supported in all devices i don't know.Best of my info Sony XPERIA smart phones in "PlayStation Certified" models do support it but it will be narrow market. only sony? Even if its there it requiers 3 devices to be carried along a 1 RIFT+ 2 Phone+ 3 Joypad that will be bulk & non practicle ergonomics wise.

3) I think Immersive rift will be too risky to use while not in secure place, like while commuting in locals/Citybus or while in libarary or canteen or anywhere out not in home. Except in aircraft while seating as passanger. hence mobile use also requires AR in form of tactile push button activted camera for reality check without removing RIFT. This can be done either by partial overlay in game but that will be joykilling or a small window hovering with reality around you displayed in samy transparent mode till you keep button pressed. "HERE MY DOUBT IS EXPRIMENT OF JHON CARMACK with AR may have link to MOBILITY RIFT :idea:" anyway i think consumer rift really needs AR too.
Luckey said. “We don’t want to play [casual] mobile games in VR.” However, Mitchell then jumped in to say that he’d seen a Candy Crush-esque match-three game playing on the Rift, and that it worked well, even if it didn’t fully take advantage of VR’s capabilities
Ofcourse to be hit with VR+MOBILITY rift will need both Casual and hardcore gamers but actually it needs something that can attract both and games must have some novelty factor or something to add value to play on rift other then just big screen. ideal game would need to be short in play time, easy to learn yet challanging to master yet refreshingly full of fun. like TAMPLE RUN VR with movement controll by HEAD TRACKER
Luckey enthused that the Rift itself could one day become an Android device, with a chip that might currently be found in one of those high-end phones embedded in the headset itself.
This is right direction of MobilityRift as it appear in my mind (Due to Flop Epson Moverio ofcourse, they had idea but no right hardware and they went narrow minded closed eco system which in end killed product. :shock: ) i was requesting from many many months before.Even i asked about ANDROID OS and good SoC Carrying Version in questions to palmer luckey and had long arguments with other members.Even then Mr.Palmer Luckey KEPT MUM. and did not answered,Now i got ,why?

What will be benifit of SELF SUSTAINED MOBILITY RIFT? (may i call it SSMR)

1) No SMART PHONE/TABLET needed. its good as they anway have short bettery life, plus you don't want to die your communication device in playing while not at home.
2) DEFINED HARDWARE makes easy to build apps for devlopers
3) ALL BENIFITS OF CLOSED ECO SYSTEM, STILL NO LIMITS OF IT. thus experince will be same across comunity.All players will feel the game the way developer want them too.
4) Not too many devices to be carried to enjoy VR, I even hate carrying 2 mobiles+7" tab,so i know.

Its good to make consumer rift with these mobility features that will shatter sales record ground.

WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED TO BE A SURE HIT...

1) Light weight rift with no more then 6"digonal size and only single cable between rift and controll box

2) RIFT or CONTROLL BOX can house (i prefer controll box to house all these to reduce weight of face, while controll box also need to be small with Weist Clip)Andorid JB OS+DDR3 RAM Atleast 2GB+Batttery atleast 4000Mah + SSD or Memory Card slot supporting 64GB sd card.

3) 3.5 mm universal stero headphone port on rift at any side of RIFT

4) Keeping option to connect LAPTOP or PC or TABLET or SHIELD just like any display periferal.

5) A nice atleast 1.2 Megapixel quality camera for AR (just for reality check of surroundings without removing rift). <<i think jhon carmack working on it>>

6) SoC like TEGRA4 or Snapdregon 800 or Exynos OCTA. if you are ok with china HUWAI and Taiwan based MEDIATEK is also making intresting offerings like MTK6589T is cheap enough while potent too.They have developed true OCTA core A7 processor http://www.mediatek.com/_en/Event/20130 ... little.php
but it might be little costly.

7) Super Futuristic outer case to please all geeky souls out there.

8) Bluetooth Joypad support like joypad of PS3 for advance gaming.basic can be well handled by head tracker.

Here i feel such rift is already in development thats why Mr.Palmer Luckey kept mum when i asked. :(

My intention is to request please don't repeat mistakes of EPSON MOVERIO. Try to make consumer rift near to mobility version to enhance its bonus feature set which in end benifit all.

Let me put this in LoTR version.

"One Rift to rule them all, One Rift to find them,
One Rift to bring them all and in the Immersion bind them
In the Land of VR where the OCULUS lie."
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

The future of VR mobile will be to slot your smartphone / nexus / minitablet / etc into a plastic housing with lenses.

There will be no rift. Maybe there will be a slot the tablet / smartphone can plug into which gives it extra capabilities (eg: location).

The value prop will all be about software.

How will oculus get big on mobile? Simple: Invent Oasis using what they know about VR from the Rift and leveraging what Carmack is best at: tight, low latency gaming.

The future of VR is *NOT* hardware. It will be the software. It will be what Carmack can do.

It's also worthwhile to note apple has a patent on this as well:

http://www.google.ca/patents/US20100079356

There are others, of course.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Fredz »

blazespinnaker wrote:The future of VR mobile will be to slot your smartphone / nexus / minitablet / etc into a plastic housing with lenses. There will be no rift.
I don't think so, you'd need as many types of attachments (and lenses) as there are screen sizes, it's not economically viable to me.

Also you wouldn't be able to guarantee a consistent experience for each end-user, which is a recipe for market failure. I also think the key is the software though as you said, Oculus has had many people working on this for more than a year and their implementation is still not perfect, although they have to support only one display. I can't see anyone else doing better for a multitude of different displays sizes, resolutions and technologies.

Also the weight factor will be much worse than with a naked screen, and you'd need to provide additional power to not drain your battery extremely fast. Constant 3D rendering is quite taxing on current phones/tablets and it would be quite limiting to be able to experience that only for 1 hour or 2 between two refills. It'll exist though, but not as a product provided by a single company IMO. And you'll still need an external tracker because the IMUs used in smartphones/tablets are not up to the task for head tracking.

I think a better option would be an HMD with a control box in a belt that you can connect to any smartphone or tablet via USB. The belt would contain a battery and a tracker, the USB connection would provide MHL HDMI output (1080p@60Hz, probably better with MHL 3.0) and sensor reading with USB OTG. You could use the tactile screen for input or a bluetooth controller (keyboard & mouse, gamepad) and even the smartphone/tablet IMU and GPS for crude body tracking.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

It'll be good enough.

At the end of the day, people aren't going to shell out extra dough just for the pleasure of having to haul around another device that they have to plug in and charge. VR might be a big deal to you and I, but it's proven not to be particularly important to everyone else.

The vast majority of the universe is going to see VR as this thing they can slot their phone into. Maybe even Samsung/Apple will improve the IMU / graphics chip / screen if they see it help sell a few more units than the competition.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Likay »

If not else it's another cool thing to do with your phone. The average people are probably more interested in this than new tech it seems. :lol:
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

I think it's also critical to remember we're talking about *mobile* VR here, which is a category into itself.

Think being on an airplane or a long bus trip and pulling out your smartphone to watch a movie in a VR movie theatre. Or maybe to use it as a workstation with bigger screen space. Plus there is the privacy element. Instead of earphones to plug it into, you pull out a pair of 'eyephones'.

But yeah, there's definitely the casual gamer application as well who wants to play VR minecraft without having to shell out big bucks.

It's a way to take that tiny screen real estate and make it very very big and compelling - something everyone wants to do.

It's also important to realize that the smartphone / ipad space is really a huge, profitable and very very competitive market where all the R&D is today. The screens / CPUs / IMUs are only going to get significantly more powerful at cheaper price points.

Hell .. for $100 you can pick up a lumina 520 smartphone new which is better than devices 2 years old that cost $600 bux.

OVR just can't compete with Apple/Samsung/Google/Microsoft in the mobile VR space.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Attreyu »

Absolutely blazespinnaker. The future is in the adapters or even more, in completely integrated all-in-one solutions like ODT+adapter+gun controller. The software is already here or in the works at most.

My gues is that the Oculus Rift will never launch oficially. I'm serious.

I'm having a hard time understanding the guys over in the Nexus 7 thread discussing for dozens of pages how to disassembly a tablet in order to use the screen, search for adapters, cables, making reverse engineering, etc. It's pointless and expensive.

If you can't have a complete VR solution under 500$ (ODT+HMD+controller) then it's not gonna seriously get off the ground.

And I don't mean autumn 2014. I mean march 2014 at the latest.

Affordability. Portability. Ease of use. Compatibility out of the box.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

Another entrant into the VR Mobile Space:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/204 ... ality-case

I laughed a bit at the Skateboarding Augmented Reality / Video camera mode. Sure hope the app doesn't crash or your battery dies..


Maybe a console (Sony or MS) will buy out OVR. I can see an HMD accessory with it.

That's an interesting point about the Oculus not launching. With their 16M .. I think it will, but I think it could risk being a bust.
Last edited by blazespinnaker on Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Attreyu »

blazespinnaker wrote:Another entrant into the VR Mobile Space:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/204 ... ality-case
They have 2 big problems:

a. It's expensive during Kickstarter and it will be double the price after the Kickstarter finishes. And as things are going, they won't build up the target.

b. They aren't really VR oriented, but watching movies and augmented reality. They don't have a key element - the software interface for the stereoscopic 3d video feed from the PC.
blazespinnaker wrote:That's an interesting point about the Oculus not launching. With their 16M .. I think it will, but I think it could risk being a bust.
If they're not complete idiots, they won't launch it. By the time we're in September 2014, there will be a dozen different adapter type products out there, all using phones and tablets with 4K resolution for 50$ (injection molding + 10$ profit). If I were Palmer and the gang, I'd switch to software development pronto, with Carmack on board. Not games, but analog positional tracking (with acceleration and at least 20 contact sensors) and implementation. And I'm really worried that even that it's not necessary, with products like the Kinect at the doorstep for around 100$.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

I agree they should pivot to software, but carmack is strong in building tight, fast rendering software.

I think they should create Oasis. I'd think Carmack would want to tackle that given his career arc. Also, the CEO and some of the team at OVR have been very successful in building game creation tools. They can do this.

As for sensors... I dunno. Maybe middleware. But the field is pretty saturated already. And Dual Kinects are likely to completely rule this space. Getting in and out of mocap suits and sensors is such a hassle.

I think VRASE is the right idea, but way too expensive. All that money for lenses and plastic housing? Please... Kickstarter people are paying so that they can tool their inject molds.

Hmmm... Actually, this gives me an idea.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Attreyu »

Yeah, I've edited my post after about one minute, when I've realized that there are serious competitors already out there.

The Rift was perfect because it kickstarted the VR by itself by optimising existing HMD technologies and concepts. But now there are a bunch of guys, me included, who are tasked with building the first generation of VR accessories and controllers and a 300$ Rift is a pointless aquisition in the face of the current generation of smartphones and tablets. Well, maybe not so pointless TODAY, but by spring you will have exactly the same experience or better at a quarter of that price.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Attreyu »

blazespinnaker wrote:I think VRASE is the right idea, but way too expensive. All that money for lenses and plastic housing? Please... Kickstarter people are paying so that they can tool their inject molds.
Of course. They're a 10 person team and they need the cash probably. A protosample costs about 1000$ and a mass-production line tooling way over 130.000$. I know that because I'm testing the waters myself for when the time comes. They are doing it wrong though, I would buy 10 fast 3d printers and get to work. If they'll have 1 million orders, sure - injection molding is the way to do it, but not at this stage, absolutely not.

And I repeat, they don't have the key ingredient - the software.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

Attreyu wrote: And I repeat, they don't have the key ingredient - the software.
Well, software (and its specification) is the hard part :) Assembling plastic and lenses and off the shelf components is not.

This I think could be OVRs undoing. They've developed this identity as a hardware company but it will be the software and content that wins it.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Attreyu »

Not so much :D but I won't say anything else, until next week.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by yautjacetanu »

Attreyu
I think you don't get the power of convenience and laziness. Its the main thing that fuel google and facebook, its the main thing that makes money for tech. I think you're one of those people who think Android is better because it can do more at a cheaper price.

There is no way I'd buy an adapter. If it was ever going to happen, I'd only buy a pre-built smartphone and adapter medly but if those are going to be substantially cheaper then the rift then why can't the rift just use those parts?

There is absolutely no way, me or anything I know will bother with the hassle of taking a smartphone in and out of the device. One major issue I have with the rift already is that it takes me ages to get all the cables out of its box. Most of the time I think "I'd like to play on the rift, ah but then I'd have to deal with cables, lets watch something on Netflix instead". I will give someone a significant amount of my money if it lets me be lazy, I'll also forfeit a significant amount of my rights and data if I can be lazy.

The key ingredient is the community, imo.... apart from that its marketing.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Attreyu »

yautjacetanu wrote:There is absolutely no way, me or anything I know will bother with the hassle of taking a smartphone in and out of the device.
Hahaha :lol: :lol:
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by blazespinnaker »

yautjacetanu wrote:Attreyu
I think you don't get the power of convenience and laziness. Its the main thing that fuel google and facebook, its the main thing that makes money for tech. I think you're one of those people who think Android is better because it can do more at a cheaper price.

There is no way I'd buy an adapter. If it was ever going to happen, I'd only buy a pre-built smartphone and adapter medly but if those are going to be substantially cheaper then the rift then why can't the rift just use those parts?

There is absolutely no way, me or anything I know will bother with the hassle of taking a smartphone in and out of the device. One major issue I have with the rift already is that it takes me ages to get all the cables out of its box. Most of the time I think "I'd like to play on the rift, ah but then I'd have to deal with cables, lets watch something on Netflix instead". I will give someone a significant amount of my money if it lets me be lazy, I'll also forfeit a significant amount of my rights and data if I can be lazy.

The key ingredient is the community, imo.... apart from that its marketing.
I know exactly what you mean!!! I don't listen to my tunes because I hate plugging in my earphones into my iphone. Lining up the prong into that tiny little hole....what a hassle. I'd go bluetoth but then I'd have to charge THAT all the time..

Lordy, can't someone fix these problems!? Netflix is cool, because they save my password so I don't have to log in all the time. But finding the new content is crazy making, all that clicking and searching, so sometimes I just take a nap.
The key ingredient is the community,
Wrong. The key ingredient is the right price for the right content, features and experience. Always has been, always will be.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Dilip »

Smart Phones if selected as target platform will make hard to develope any VR EXPERINCE to begin with. As most smart phones except Super Highend like GALAXY-4 are not capable of driving even DK if not playing flashisq games. How would they play even mid graphics games (Dead Trigger) in SBS mode on consumer version of oculus rift which will be atleast 1920X1080. Tablet like NEXUS 2013 are ray of hope still HDMI out is Question.


Instead of Targeting Smart Phones Oculus better make their RIFT more focused on independent capable device like NVIDIA SHIELD

I can't guess why NVIDIA and OCULUS don't see this. this will boost oportunity for both as Nvidia can focus on CPU+GPU while Oculus can manage VR+Big Screen Display.

NVIDIA also plans to release LOGAN later this year and LOGAN powered SHIELD + RIFT can light PS4 & XBOX in smokes at least if they have any Remote Remote Plans to enter VR.

Microsoft i doubt but SONY is 'ARMED N READY' if they release their HMD for PC Market too then future is competetion full for oculus. But Sony will Never go for low price (Ex. HMZ T1,T2,T3 Price > 1000$) so here i think RIFT is safe.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by TheHolyChicken »

Dilip wrote:Smart Phones if selected as target platform will make hard to develope any VR EXPERINCE to begin with. As most smart phones except Super Highend like GALAXY-4 are not capable of driving even DK if not playing flashisq games. How would they play even mid graphics games (Dead Trigger) in SBS mode on consumer version of oculus rift which will be atleast 1920X1080. Tablet like NEXUS 2013 are ray of hope still HDMI out is Question.


Instead of Targeting Smart Phones Oculus better make their RIFT more focused on independent capable device like NVIDIA SHIELD

I can't guess why NVIDIA and OCULUS don't see this. this will boost oportunity for both as Nvidia can focus on CPU+GPU while Oculus can manage VR+Big Screen Display.

NVIDIA also plans to release LOGAN later this year and LOGAN powered SHIELD + RIFT can light PS4 & XBOX in smokes at least if they have any Remote Remote Plans to enter VR.

Microsoft i doubt but SONY is 'ARMED N READY' if they release their HMD for PC Market too then future is competetion full for oculus. But Sony will Never go for low price (Ex. HMZ T1,T2,T3 Price > 1000$) so here i think RIFT is safe.
They are thinking of the future, not the immediate present. It's not going to be long at all before our smartphones are more powerful than ps3s/xbox360s, and a dash of visual fidelity can be sacrificed in order to reach the framerates required for VR.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by Kazioo »

Dilip wrote:
2) RIFT or CONTROLL BOX can house (i prefer controll box to house all these to reduce weight of face, while controll box also need to be small with Weist Clip)Andorid JB OS+DDR3 RAM Atleast 2GB+Batttery atleast 4000Mah + SSD or Memory Card slot supporting 64GB sd card.
Yeah, I can even imagine something like that:
2014: Rift HMD + normal control box
2015: same HMD + new control box with Android = new product (as a whole) with great new features.

Oculus can't manufacture two different versions of an HDM at the same time (many people suggested producing more expensive model for enthusiast, but that would be an overkill for a startup), but they could make just a more advanced control box and introduce it much sooner than a next generation of HMD.
They could even sell the new control box separately to owners of the first version.
Consoles have redesigns without any new features and even that encourages new sales.

On the other hand, it would be great for Oculus to have just a simple built-in virtual screen mode and an HDMI Input for normal (non-rift-native) format even in the first consumer version, so Rift could be not only marketed as a VR device but also as a portable 100" (3D) TV for consoles (PS3, X360, PS4, XOne...), cable boxes and everything with HDMI out. That would be attractive for much more people.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by MSat »

TheHolyChicken wrote: They are thinking of the future, not the immediate present. It's not going to be long at all before our smartphones are more powerful than ps3s/xbox360s, and a dash of visual fidelity can be sacrificed in order to reach the framerates required for VR.

I think you hit the nail on the head. While current gen hardware might be somewhat capable, it's still a few generations off IMO from providing a compelling experience on par with at least current consoles. There are a few additional benefits to developing for android other than utilizing smartphones or tablets though, as there are devices such as Ouya, various "game sticks", or nVidia Shield as Dilip mentioned. That makes android a legitimate platform to develop games for, which makes it a safe bet for Oculus should they ever decide to create an all-in-one HMD.

Hopefully, for convenience sake, Oculus will do away with the control box for the consumer version which will be beneficial when paired with mobile devices.
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Re: ANDROID SMART PHONES : WHY TO BE RIFTED? HOW TO BE RIFTE

Post by hast »

blazespinnaker wrote:I think they should create Oasis. I'd think Carmack would want to tackle that given his career arc. Also, the CEO and some of the team at OVR have been very successful in building game creation tools. They can do this.
First off, Oasis is a horrible idea from a vastly overrated book.

Turning the internet into WoW is an awesome way to make people not want to use the internet anymore. We tried this before with VRML and it was not much fun.

And to be clear, that "not much fun" part wasn't that computers were too slow. It's just that the internet today gives you the equivalent power of teleporting anywhere instantly. Why would you want to leave that for a system where you have to buy airplane tickets to get anywhere?
blazespinnaker wrote: I think VRASE is the right idea, but way too expensive. All that money for lenses and plastic housing? Please... Kickstarter people are paying so that they can tool their inject molds.
I think VRASE is a scam.

I have tried to do what they are doing using cardboard and lenses I bought from ebay (last year when we were all waiting for the dev kits). It's fun to play around with, but it's absolutely poop as far as VR experiences go.

And the stuff they show are not VR but just showing a static screen. When I try to do that in the Oculus I get sick pretty much instantly. And never mind that if you were to do that with a side-by-side stereo video you would only see about 20% of the movie, so completely useless for that as well. (But it's quite possible that they can do a decent private VR movie viewer in a phone. That I think is quite feasible.)

If you try to use it while skateboarding I hope you have good medical insurance, because the high latency from the camera viewfinder will make you crash into the first obstacle. Possibly while vomiting at the same time. (If you don't believe me, try walking around only looking through the viewfinder of a mobile phone. You don't even have to build anything, just put on a sweater halfway and plug the hole for your neck with your phone.)

It's not a crazy idea to have a portable VR headset when travelling and such. Vuzix have been making portable viewers for a long time. But in the end I think technologies like what Nvidia presented with the light field glasses is going to make for a much more compact and portable device than anything you plug your phone into.

And that way your phone's battery isn't dead when you reach your destination trying to call for a pickup.

EDIT: This post may seem a bit harsh but that's because I only now watched all of their presentation video on Kickstarter. And I'd say all of that stuff is fake and don't work. I find it incredibly disingenuous to post something like that and present it as a good experience. I couldn't help but think that all of the people in the video must be smiling because they are thinking "I can't believe how crappy this is!".
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